Warhammer 40k -II- Tactics for the Tactics God

[Fuzzy_Juan]

i've been fooling around trying to find fun ways to play with the new guard codex...been trying to build a list with guard and grey knights/daemonhunters. Funny thing i found...if you are going to be playing against daemons, an inquisitor lord might be hilarious.

Have two mystics in their retinue and elect a nearby unit to take shots at daemon units that show up. With the way daemons show up and the wording of the rule, it seems that first turn warp in may lead to free shots on damn near every unit that enters play within 4d6 of your Inquisitor...if you have a lord as hq and a regular lord as elite...maybe up to 2 free shots on each. Doesn't say you can't have the same unit fire more than once if multiple units port in. Imagine the fun of ordering a squad of 3 vendettas to open up on a daemon prince, or a full platoon of guard that was merged into a large firing line...or maybe a tank squad...mmmmm...tanks...might make your enemy think long and hard about DSing anywhere near you...and if you knew they were bringing daemons, you know there will be at least one master of the fleet to make them stagger in even worse.

Still need to figure out if a deep striking or outflanking transport can take it's passengers with them if they can't DS or outflank...one would assume so, but rules lawers like to argue the point that scouting troops convey the ability to their 'dedicated' transports by the rules, though it does not say the reverse...=(

Also...did anyone hear if a mortar worked with a Master of Ordinance? Theoretically they might be able to fire together using the multiple barrage rule...however, since the artillary strike is an 'ability' rather than an actual weapon, some have been saying no dice...anyone hear for sure?

[onasuma]

4. I can find it in the older edition/s. But, where in this, current edition does it say you need two at least one hand to ride a Bike? Does it?

You dont. Get a relic blade command squad, now.

[Fuzzy_Juan]

Ok...I had some time and decided to play around with a guard/DH list. I have no idea how it will actually perform, but hey, seems fun. Bear in mind, this is for a 2k battle with a buddy and we are doing annhiliation...no KP, no objectives...for an objective mission, i'd need to drop a terminator squad and probably one of the valkyries for an infantry platoon with chimeras. 1997 pts total currently.

HQ
Command Platoon
-Colonel "Iron Hand" Straken
4x melta guns

Grey Knight Hero (Brother Captian)
- Retinue 5x GK Terminators
-1x psycannon

Elite
Grey Knight Terminator Squad
-1x Brother Captian
-5x GK Terminators
-1x psycannon

Troops
Veteran Squad
-7x Shotguns
-3x Meltaguns
-Chimera
-Multilaser
-Hvy Flamer

Veteran Squad
-7x Shotguns
-3x Meltaguns
-Chimera
-Multilaser
-Hvy Flamer

Fast Attack

Squadron A
1x Vendetta
- Hvy Bolter Sponsons

Squadron B
1x Vendetta
- Hvy Bolter Sponsons

Squadron C
1x Valkyrie
-Multiple Rocket Pods
-Hvy Bolter Sponsons
1x Valkyrie
-Hvy Bolter Sponsons

Heavy Support
Tank Squad 1
1x Leman Russ MBT
- Hvy Bolter Sponsons

Tank Squad 2
1x Leman Russ MBT
- Hvy Bolter Sponsons

The way I imagine this working, Straken and the grey knights embark on the aircraft and get close during scout move, maybe one of the vet squads leave their chimera and start on a valkyrie (terminators in vendettas to give the option to move independantly). If first turn is mine disembark and charge them with the emphasis on hitting hard with everything. If first turn is opponents, then move flat out with transports to a decent position to get cover for first fire turn and hope the armor is deployed in safeish zones. then dish out as much pain as possible on my first go. Against daemons, grey knights out front disembarked to recieve the charge with their rites of exorcism...defensive formation in a corner then break out and deal with them as they come. In all cases, try and get Colonel Straken in close enough to the GK to give them the furious charge S7 I5 power weapons...MMmmmm...fun should wipe out anything in a single charge. Hmmm...maybe change the elite terminators for troop GKs...hmm....dunno. I'm most likely to face daemons or necrons i think if i know him.

[Copper8642]

So... has anybody here ever faced or used anything from the Deathwatch? I'm going to test on Vassal the use of a Kill Team in an IG army. It's expensive, but they look very effective. Of course, True Grit isn't in the rulebook anymore, but you can just assume what it does from the Daemonhunter's codex.

[Cheesegear]

Long Post GO!

Vanilla Space Marine vs. Ravenwing Lists

This is a rough account to the models I have;

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Captain				165		Master of the Ravenwing		205
Relic Blade					{Plasma Cannon, TL Storm Bolter}		 
Bike

Space Marine Bike Squad		185		Ravenwing Attack Squadron	315
5 Space Marines					6 Space Marines
x2 Meltaguns					x2 Meltaguns
Powerfist					Powerfist
						Attack Bike
						(Fearless, Scouts)


Space Marine Bike Squad		195		Ravenwing Attack Squadron	325
5 Space Marines					6 Space Marines
x2 Plasma Guns					x2 Plasma Guns
Powerfist					Powerfist
						Attack Bike
						(Fearless, Scouts)

Land Speeder Squadron		 80		Ravenwing Support Squadron	 65
Multi-Melta
Multi-Melta

Land Speeder Squadron		 90		Ravenwing Support Squadron	 75
Typhoon Missile Launcher			Typhoon Missile Launcher

Attack Bike Squad		100
x2 Atttack Bikes
Multi-Meltas

Totals				815						985
Composition
1 HQ, 2 Troops, 3 Fast Attack			1 HQ, 2 Troops, 2 Fast Attack

Comparitive Notes:
First of all; Points cost. Ravenwing are really expensive. But, then again, they are Fearless. The Bike squads also have Scout. Which may or may not be useful. And Teleport Homers, which'll come in handy if and when I decide to add Terminators. Which is neat. So, the points may be worth it.

One thing that is slightly annoying though, is that Attack Bikes must be in a regular Bike Squads, and can't go off running about on their own. Although they can exchange their HBs for MMs for free. So, I can just put 'Attack Bike' in my list, and decide what I want when the game starts.
(I'm a strong believer in magnets and blu-tac)

Bikes only come in 3, or 6 varieties. I think, for me, I'll be playing exclusively with 6-man squads.
Regular marines come in 3 (where they don't count as Troops) to 8-man squads. Plus Attack Bikes. Which'll be useful when I shove my Attack Bikes into my Troops section to make up an Assault Squad to fit in there.

Ravenwing Land Speeders are really cheap for some reason. I tried figuring out why, and all's I could find was that they can't Deep Strike. Is Deep Striking really worth it?
Also, Speeders can't take Dual MMs; Which is kind of a blow. But, did I mention Speeders were cheap (probably because Bike Squads are so expensive)?
Another (small) benefit, is that again, I can just write 'Land Speeder' and leave it. Since, like Attack Bikes, Ravenwing Speeders trade for free.

...Although, a 'regular' Speeder with no upgrades in a VanillaSM list comes in at 50 points. But, who would do that? Assault Cannons and Typhoons cost the same; But, I've gone with Typhoon simply for the Blast Templates.

Master of the Ravenwing comes with a Plasma Cannon. And is a Jetbike, instead of a regular bike. So, neat.

I think for now, I'll go with Ravenwing. Since it makes up (almost) 1000pts. And the only thing that I actually have worth the 15 points is giving one of the Sergeants a Plasma Pistol.

If I want VSM list, I need to go out and buy some more models (which isn't a bad thing). Maybe some Scouts? Or a Dreadnought? I'm not averse to buying a Predator either. And, feedback that I got in the previous pages of this thread, lead me to believe I should get a Storm Shield for my Captain as well. Since he doesn't even need hands to ride a bike (apparently).

Future Thoughts:
Terminators:
Ravenwing Bike Squads come with Teleport Homers. And also have the sweet, sweet Scouts rule.
VSM Scout Squads with THs come in at 90 points (plus upgrades). Is that so bad? Extra bodies and Extra Weapons after all. And my fluff for my VSM Chapter includes Scouts and Bikes. No Tactical Marines. Although I am aware I can do this with Ravenwing; But, Scout Squads take up Elite choices, which is for Dreadnoughts and Terminators.
Although, 'Scouts are Elite' kind of fits my fluff.

Second HQ
VSM Master of the Forge on Bike, with Conversion Beamer. Relentless is awesome! Since he's on a bike, he can also follow the Land Speeders and fix them if and when they break (Disclaimer: Techmarines can not fix a Land Speeder that is dropped by an unattended child).
Dark Angels Techmarines can not have bikes. Lame. Purely from a fluff perceptive, that means I don't want one. However, they don't take up any space on the FO chart.

VSM Librarians on Bikes are scary, scary things.
Dark Angels Librarian powers are...Less good. And are therefore less scary.

Dark Angels Command Squads can not have bikes. And Master of the Ravenwing only upgrades an already-existing unit, instead of making a brand new one.

Input Appreciated.

[Copper8642]

Now, for a less opinion and more fact question. The new Imperial Guard Codex says that while 5 people inside the Chimera can fire from the top hatch, in reality some are firing from lasgun emplacements along the sides. Does this mean the squad inside has to fire lasguns, or does the fact that the game assumes 5 people are firing from the hatch mean the people inside can fire their flamers and meltas?

[Zorg]

It makes no difference what they fire - five models can fire. It is generraly assumed they are the lasguns because much of the time that is what will be fired, but there is nothing to say plasmas, heavy weapons etc can't fire.

[Copper8642]

Thanks for the info.

[Fuzzy_Juan]

Now, for a less opinion and more fact question. The new Imperial Guard Codex says that while 5 people inside the Chimera can fire from the top hatch, in reality some are firing from lasgun emplacements along the sides. Does this mean the squad inside has to fire lasguns, or does the fact that the game assumes 5 people are firing from the hatch mean the people inside can fire their flamers and meltas?

yes, the veteran or Command squad chimera drive by has become standard operating procedure. Meltaguns, plasma, whatever you are packin'.

It could be that you give the unit a hvy flamer, put two heavy flamers on the chimera and go to town with 3 hvy flamer shots.

Also note that it has been said that a transport and the unit within it are in fact separate entities...in that regard, the vehicle may shoot at one target and the passengers at another. So in effect a bunch of guys could drive their anti-infantry chimera up to a squad and flame them with the vehicle and shoot their meltas at a nearby MC or vehicle...since there is a good possibility that a commander will be there too, you can use 'fire on my target' or 'Bring them Down' on your squad since as a command vehicle, your leaders can issue orders from inside. Drive by with 4 twin linked meltaguns? goodbye landraider...or anything else for that matter.

[Erloas]

Well I had 2 more games over the weekend. 1 more win and my second loss.

Both were 1000 points with the same list.
First was against Orks, dawn of war deployment and 4 objectives. He had some very good luck with some shooting (hitting over 50% several times on BS2) and he did pretty good on what saves he could make. (which makes me mad because he did the same thing last game and both games he was using my dice because he didn't have enough and I gave him an old block I had that I discontinued using because it always did poorly for me. So apparently those dice just don't like me, they roll poorly for me and well against me) He seemed to mostly be expecting to with with just his nobz with painboy and warboss. They actually got to do something this game (unlike last game where they were all dead without ever having reached combat) but they were fairly weak by that time and didn't get a lot done. I had taken a chance and charged my autarch with laser lance (6 str6 I6 powerweapon attacks on the charge) on the unit when it was down to just 3 models. He did a wound to each and was relying on his 3+AS and 4+invul with fortune to live through the fight, he saved all the normal attacks but failed one of the 2 warboss wounds, so str10 caused instant death.
I had my scorpions to assault a ruins full of boyz with a big-mek holding one objective, but I couldn't get to assault the first turn (only 4 small ways into the building, 2 doors on the far side, a window around the corner and a ladder that my scorpions were below. He decided to assault, but only rolled a 2 on his move through cover so couldn't get more then 2 boyz down the stairs into the fight. I killed 11 models, broke the unit and ran them down, which really made him mad that he lost the whole unit (including character) when only 2 of his models got to attack.

End result here was I held 3 objectives, he contested one with his deff dread. I lost 2 warwalkers, 1 unit of storm guardians with farseer, 2 jetbikes, and the autarch. All he had left on the table was the deff-dread.


The loss was to Tyranids. It was normal deployment and kill points. He had 9 possible KP to my 12. He went second and took advantage of that by putting everything but a single supped up carnifex in one corner. I averaged about 20-24 str6 shots at the carnifex for 6 turns in a row and I managed to do exactly 0 unsaved wounds to it. (mathhammer would have said about 4) He had another base carnifex that lived just long enough to tie up my scorpions to get them charged by some genestealers. Scorpions didn't do bad, and in fact held with the carnifex and genestealers for 2 rounds of combat and did enough that the genestealers were quickly dispatched after the close combat. Basically what won if for him was that all of his easy killpoints were hidden in a corner where I couldn't get to them with most of my army, and a bit of better then average luck on his part. His beefed up carnifex was in just the right place to keep my other flank from getting to his squishier units without putting them in a place where they likely could have been charged. May have been worth it to let him take out one unit to get 2-3 other past, but I figured with as much firepower as I had at the carnifex it would have went down, and it should have, it just didn't. End result was he had 6 killpoints and I had 3. If it would have still been normal battlevalue it would have been closer, likely a minor victory, with a draw not being out of the question.

[Copper8642]

More rules questions: Can the Space Marine Librarian's "The Gate of Infinity" be used to escape and assault?

[Fuzzy_Juan]

More rules questions: Can the Space Marine Librarian's "The Gate of Infinity" be used to escape and assault?

Well, nothing says that they cannot use a power while locked in combat. If it was a shooting power absolutely not, and it is not movement, rather something that is used while in the movement phase which will still occur even if the unit is incapable of moving.

It is annoying that it does not spcifically say you can use it to leave combat though. I would think it is allowed. However, since it would be considered a deep strike, there would be no movement or assault that turn by the librarian and his men. So he could get away, but then only stand and deliver. Great for shifting fast and dropping smite on some peeps, maybe dragging along some good shooting in a fast way.

So, escape close combat, most likely yes...and assault...No, specifically denied since you use the deep strike rules.

One of the only marine tricks i know of to do that is the Grey knight sanctuary power vs. daemons. It throws people out of combat with you and then you can charge them. Have fun.

[Penguinizer]

I had a rather small (750 points, not counting for calculation errors) battle today. We used the stores table, and had a good bit of wooded terrain. I was playing 'Nids, with my opponent playing orks. We decided on Annihilation.Approximate army lists are as follows:
Me:

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HQ: Broodlord(extended carapace) with 8 Genestealers(Feeder Tendrils, Scything Talons, Extended Carapace) as a retinue.

Elite:
1x Lictor

Troops:
3 Ripper swarms (Enhanced Senses and Spinefists)
8x Genestealers (same as the retinue genestealers, except with scuttlers as well.)

Heavy Support:
2x Zoanthrope, Synapse and Warp Blast

My opponent (I didn't take much of a look at his army list):

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Bigmek, 2 looted wagons with scorchas, some boys, some burna boys, and some lootas, 2 Deffkoptas.

I ended up winning by 2 killpoints. It came close, with me ending up only having my HQ with one Genestealer, and a zoanthrope at one wound. The Zoanthropes ended up holding their own in melee, with one taking out a deffkopta. He had a single kopta, and 2 burnas in one of his wagons left. We both agreed that it was a ton of fun.

[Ghal Marak]

Well, there’s' an Apocalypse tournament coming up at the local game store. The points limit is 3000, and for people who can't meet that limit (i.e. Me) we can pair off with somebody else using two 1500 point armies. Seeing as I only have roughly 1700 or so points of Necrons actually built, I seem to be partnering up.

So far, I think I'm teaming up with a Guard player. I know he has a Baneblade or two, but I don't know how many points they run at (other than 'a lot') so no clue if he is going to use them or not. Then again, I may not even get to team up with him. It's kinda all in the air right now.

Anyway, I'm not quite certain what I should take. I don't have much at the moment, and what I do have is lacking in numbers. This is what I do have:

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2 Necron Lords, Deceiver, Monolith, 40 Warriors, 5 Immortals, 3 Destroyers, and 10 Scarab Swarms.

Anybody have some thoughts on what I should do?

I'm also wondering, how the heck does Apocalypse work with tag-teams? I don't know much about it, other than the fact that you get to ignore the force organization rules. Is it like any other game, just more points?

[onasuma]

No. Apocolypse chucks the FOC out the window and always has a large emphasis on capturing points (mainly to give infantry something to do). There are also new types of unit: flyers, super heavies and gargantuan creatures, all of which are deemed too powerful for regular play.

Your potential partners baneblades, depending on the type (including shadowswords here) will be between 450 and 600 points each.

Finally for your list, if you can afford to buy 2 more monoliths (and only if you can) do so. 3< monoliths can make a formation in apoclypse giving out shiney bonuses.

[Penguinizer]

Hmm, I've been trying to think of a 1500 point list for the Nids. I have decided to go with a Vanguard Fleet theme, and I've decided that I'll use at least 3 groups of Genestealers, a broodlord, and lictors. This is largely so I can get nifty bonuses in apoc games. The thing is, I can't figure out any good anti-vehicle. I thought about taking 3x Zoanthrope and a flyrant, but that doesn't fit the theme all that well.

[onasuma]

*points at genestealers*

See those rending claws? Yeah. Them.

[Penguinizer]

In my experience, the only way to kill a vehicle with those is excessive weapon destroyed and immobilized results. If I do use them for apocalypse, I'll switch out Scuttlers for Toxin Sacs. That'll mean I can get a glancing hit on a 6 against most vehicles, or penetrating against the weaker. With the amount of attacks they get, it's a good chance I'll at least take out the immediate threat of the main gun.

[onasuma]

Indeed, it is, but think of how many you'll get:

Lets say a squad of 12 stealers:

Each has 2 attacks, +1 from scything talons +1 from charge.

48 attacks, 24 will hit, then try for rending. That will always make a dent in something.

[Penguinizer]

Rending doesn't give bonuses against vehicles though. That's how I understood it.

[JMobius]

AFB, but at least as of 5th edition, I believe a rending attack versus vehicles allows an additional d3 to be added to armor penetration if the initial roll is a six.

Tangent: I have very little to do at my workplace, often times. In my boredom, I've ended up creating a titanic spreadsheet that plays Mathhammer with nearly every weapon in the game versus a defined vehicle or infantry target, with all the standard special rules in place and as many of the codex-unique ones as I could. Rending was a bit annoying to figure out the math of, but it ended up being quite a bit more potent property than I'd thought.

[hamishspence]

And it used to be D6 in 4th ed. Rending was severely nerfed- still good though.

[Ghal Marak]

No. Apocolypse chucks the FOC out the window and always has a large emphasis on capturing points (mainly to give infantry something to do). There are also new types of unit: flyers, super heavies and gargantuan creatures, all of which are deemed too powerful for regular play.

Your potential partners baneblades, depending on the type (including shadowswords here) will be between 450 and 600 points each.

Finally for your list, if you can afford to buy 2 more monoliths (and only if you can) do so. 3< monoliths can make a formation in apoclypse giving out shiney bonuses.

Hmm... well... I think I can buy 2 more. But it starts this Sunday. The store is only open on Thursday through Sunday. So I kinda missed that window of opportunity.

I guess I'll just tailor my list to provide as much support as I can to my partner. V.O.D.ing the Destroyers might prove to be useful. Too bad I don't have any heavy destroyers.

[onasuma]

Hmm... well... I think I can buy 2 more. But it starts this Sunday. The store is only open on Thursday through Sunday. So I kinda missed that window of opportunity.

I guess I'll just tailor my list to provide as much support as I can to my partner. V.O.D.ing the Destroyers might prove to be useful. Too bad I don't have any heavy destroyers.

If its too late to buy more models, this probably wont help, but none the less:

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_...roudweaver.pdf

That is the best formation I think necrons have in apocolypse.

[Ghal Marak]

Wow, thats pretty cool. Now I have to get more Immortals. Thanks for the link. It may not be useful to me in this upcoming game, but its good to know about it for future games.

[FlyingScanian]

since there is a good possibility that a commander will be there too, you can use 'fire on my target' or 'Bring them Down' on your squad since as a command vehicle, your leaders can issue orders from inside. Drive by with 4 twin linked meltaguns? goodbye landraider...or anything else for that matter.

Sadly, this last part is wrong. You can't issue orders to soldiers in transport vehicles... of course, if you jump out with a group of melta-armed veterans, you would then be free to give them an order (perhaps giving them Meltabombs for additional hurt if said vehicle wont give way... however that could happen).

[Forrestfire]

I've been toying with starting an army consisting entirely of troops in valkyries, so I came up with these lists. Can you guys critique/criticize them? Point out any gaping (and not so gaping) holes in my list?

Thanks for viewing.

1000 points

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HQ
Company Command Squad
-Commander - Carapace armor, laspistol, close combat weapon, frag grenades, refractor field
-4 Veterans - Carapace armor, close-combat weapons, frag grenades, lasguns; 3 with plasma guns
-Astropath - Carapace armor, close-combat weapon, laspistol, frag grenades
Squad Total: 145

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Troops
Veteran Squad
-Veteran Sergeant - Carapace armor, shotgun, close combat weapon, frag and krak grenades
-9 Veterans - Carapace armor, lasguns, close combat weapon, frag and krak grenades; grenadiers doctrine; 2 with plasma guns
Squad Total: 130

Veteran Squad
-Veteran Sergeant - Carapace armor, shotgun, close combat weapon, frag and krak grenades
-9 Veterans - Carapace armor, lasguns, close combat weapon, frag and krak grenades; grenadiers doctrine; 2 with meltaguns
Squad Total: 120

Veteran Squad
-Veteran Sergeant- Flak armor, shotgun, close combat weapon, frag and krak grenades
-9 - Veterans - Flak armor, lasguns, close combat weapon, frag and krak grenades; 3 with grenade launchers OR flamers
Squad Total: 85

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Fast Attack:
Vendetta Gunship Squadron
-1 Vendetta - 3 twin-linked lascannons, searchlight, extra armor - 130

Vendetta Gunship Squadron
-1 Vendetta - 3 twin-linked lascannons, searchlight, extra armor - 130

Valkyrie Assault Carrier Squadron
-2 Valkyries - Multi-lasers, searchlights, extra armor, 2 multiple rocket pods (each) - 260

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Army Total: 1000

36 Infantry - 4 Vehicles - 7 Kill Points - 3 Scoring Units

1500 points

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HQ
Company Command Squad
-Commander - Carapace armor, laspistol, close combat weapon, frag grenades, refractor field
-4 Veterans - Carapace armor, close-combat weapons, frag grenades, lasguns; 3 with plasma guns
-Astropath - Carapace armor, close-combat weapon, frag grenades, laspistol
Squad Total: 145

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Elites
Psyker Battle Squad
-Overseer - Laspistol, flak armor, close-combat weapon
-9 Sanctioned Psykers - Laspistols, flak armor, close-combat weapons
Squad Total: 110

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Troops
Veteran Squad
-Veteran Sergeant - Carapace armor, shotgun, close combat weapon, frag and krak grenades
-9 Veterans - Carapace armor, lasguns, close combat weapon, frag and krak grenades; grenadiers doctrine; 3 with plasma guns
Squad Total: 145

Veteran Squad
-Veteran Sergeant - Carapace armor, shotgun, close combat weapon, frag and krak grenades
-9 Veterans - Carapace armor, lasguns, close combat weapon, frag and krak grenades; grenadiers doctrine; 1 with plasma gun; 1 with heavy flamer
Squad Total: 135

Veteran Squad
-Veteran Sergeant - Flak armor, shotgun, close combat weapon, frag and krak grenades
-9 Veterans - Flak armor, lasguns, close combat weapon, frag and krak grenades; 3 with meltaguns
Squad Total: 100

Veteran Squad
-Veteran Sergeant - Flak armor, shotgun, close combat weapon, frag and krak grenades
-9 Veterans - Flak armor, lasguns, close combat weapon, frag and krak grenades; 3 with grenade launchers OR flamers
Squad Total: 85
<hr>
Fast Attack
Vendetta Gunship Squadron
-1 Vendetta - 3 twin-linked lascannons, searchlight, extra armor - 130

Vendetta Gunship Squadron
-2 Vendettas - 3 twin-linked lascannons (each), searchlight, extra armor - 260

Valkyrie Assault Carrier Squadron
-3 Valkyries - Multi-lasers, searchlights, extra armor, 2 multiple rocket pods (each)- 390

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Army Total: 1500

56 Infantry - 6 Vehicles - 11 Kill Points - 4 Scoring Units

2000 points

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HQ
Company Command Squad
-Commander - Carapace armor, laspistol, close combat weapon, frag grenades, refractor field
-4 Veterans - Carapace armor, close-combat weapons, frag grenades, lasguns; 3 with plasma guns
-Astropath - Carapace armor, close-combat weapon, frag grenades, laspistol
Squad Total: 145

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Elites
Psyker Battle Squad
-Overseer - Laspistol, flak armor, close-combat weapon
-9 Sanctioned Psykers - Laspistols, flak armor, close-combat weapons
Squad Total: 110

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Troops
Veteran Squad
-Veteran Sergeant - Carapace armor, shotgun, close combat weapon, frag and krak grenades
-9 Veterans - Carapace armor, lasguns, close combat weapon, frag and krak grenades; grenadiers doctrine; 3 with plasma guns
Squad Total: 145

Veteran Squad
-Veteran Sergeant - Carapace armor, shotgun, close combat weapon, frag and krak grenades
-9 Veterans - Carapace armor, lasguns, close combat weapon, frag and krak grenades; grenadiers doctrine; 1 with plasma gun; 1 with heavy flamer
Squad Total: 135

Veteran Squad
-Veteran Sergeant - Carapace armor, shotgun, close combat weapon, frag and krak grenades
-9 Veterans - Carapace armor, lasguns, close combat weapon, frag and krak grenades; grenadiers doctrine; 2 with meltaguns
Squad Total: 120

Veteran Squad
-Veteran Sergeant - Carapace armor, shotgun, close combat weapon, frag and krak grenades
-9 Veterans - Carapace armor, lasguns, close combat weapon, frag and krak grenades; grenadiers doctrine; 2 with meltaguns
Squad Total:120

Veteran Squad
-Veteran Sergeant - Flak armor, shotgun, close combat weapon, frag and krak grenades
-9 Veterans - Flak armor, lasguns, close combat weapon, frag and krak grenades; 3 with grenade launchers OR flamers
Squad Total: 85

Veteran Squad
-Veteran Sergeant - Flak armor, shotgun, close combat weapon, frag and krak grenades
-9 Veterans - Flak armor, lasguns, close combat weapon, frag and krak grenades; 2 with grenade launchers OR flamers
Squad Total: 80

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Fast Attack
Valkyrie Assault Carrier Squadron
-1 Valkyrie - Multi-lasers, searchlight, extra armor, 2 multiple rocket pods - 130

Vendetta Gunship Squadron
-3 Vendettas - 3 twin-linked lascannons (each), searchlights, extra armor - 390

Valkyrie Assault Carrier Squadron
-3 Valkyries - Multi-lasers, searchlights, extra armor, 2 multiple rocket pods (each) - 390

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Heavy Support
Ordnance Battery
-2 Griffons - Heavy bolters OR heavy flamers, griffon heavy mortars - 150

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Army Total: 2000

76 Infantry 9 Vehicles 17 Kill Points 6 Scoring Units

[Colmarr]

Psyker Battle Squad
-Overseer - Laspistol, flak armor, close-combat weapon
-9 Sanctioned Psykers - Laspistols, flak armor, close-combat weapons

As someone who hasn't played 40k in 5+ years, this boggles my mind.

When did the imperium start using sanctioned psykers as front line troops?

[Fuzzy_Juan]

As someone who hasn't played 40k in 5+ years, this boggle my mind.

When did the imperium start using sanctioned psykers as front line troops?

They are, as of this May with the new guard codex, a new elite Unit choice. They operate in a concert and get stronger the more of them there are...it is insane. Also, since they are all psykers, people have been abusing the hell out of the Temple assasins that have interesting effects if they are near psykers...ya know like...12 attacks and other such craziness.

Sadly, this last part is wrong. You can't issue orders to soldiers in transport vehicles... of course, if you jump out with a group of melta-armed veterans, you would then be free to give them an order (perhaps giving them Meltabombs for additional hurt if said vehicle wont give way... however that could happen).

Damn, I thought of that and didn't realize that even though you can issue orders out of chimeras, you can't technically issue an order to an embarked unit...seems quite silly if the commander is litterally sitting in the damn command vehicle with the guys and can't talk with them but hey, thems the rules. Well, at the very least you can always bail and blast away. Between the squad's weapons and the weapons on the chimera, you should be able to put the hurt on an MC.

And yes...i do fully intend to give at least a couple of vet squads meltabombs...if for nothing else...the fun of tossing that demo charge. Russian Roulette with C4...fun. Like Sly...full of suprises.

I wonder what is better...pask in a punisher, or an executioner...precise plasma, or a crapton of str 5 shots that reroll wounds against MC's...Would the pask in a punisher shread a light vehicle squad...3+ with 29 s5 shots...20 of those needing 5 to glance 6 to pen, and the last 9 glance on 4 and pen on 5+...Against MC's, light vehicles or hordes of lightly armored foes, it is hard to say whether he'd be better with the oodles of guns or to just use pie.

[FlyingScanian]

I've been toying with starting an army consisting entirely of troops in valkyries, so I came up with these lists. Can you guys critique/criticize them? Point out any gaping (and not so gaping) holes in my list?

I'll be happy to oblige.

1000 points:

Spontaneously, I'd say add a medic to your plasma command squad, but that might ust be me.

Also, it seems wasteful not to utilize the veterans ability to take 3 special weapons to its fullest... but you do seem to be pressed for points. Perhaps removing the plasma from the command squad (it will be a fire magnet anyway thanks to orders) to afford this...

1500 points

Once more as above. Also, your psychers are quite fragile. You will probably put them in a valkyrie, but they can't use psychic powers from there, and as soon as they land, they will be wearing a BIG friggin' bullseye... Further, the combination of a plasma gun and a heavy flamer in one of the veteran squads... what is their primary target? Plasma is for heavy infantry/light vehicles, flamers in all versions are for light/medium infantry... Focus and specialise is the way to go.

2000 points
Not much to be said here, except for what has already been mentioned above...

All in all, I like the theme, and it definetely looks dangerous (of course, that never prevents tweaking )

And yes...i do fully intend to give at least a couple of vet squads meltabombs...if for nothing else...the fun of tossing that demo charge. Russian Roulette with C4...fun. Like Sly...full of suprises.

The hurt one gets from 3 Meltaguns, one democharge, perhaps a plasma pistol, and then a charge with meltabombs... poor vehicles (now, if only any of my friends USED vehicles...)

I wonder what is better...pask in a punisher, or an executioner...precise plasma, or a crapton of str 5 shots that reroll wounds against MC's...Would the pask in a punisher shread a light vehicle squad...3+ with 29 s5 shots...20 of those needing 5 to glance 6 to pen, and the last 9 glance on 4 and pen on 5+...Against MC's, light vehicles or hordes of lightly armored foes, it is hard to say whether he'd be better with the oodles of guns or to just use pie.

Remember that the punishers wonderful dakkagun is AP-, which means that if you glance, you need to roll a 6 ust to do anything useful against vehicles... of course, thisis moot against MC.

I also seem to recall that the standard russ with its pieplate is actually better against most things... I don't have the numbers handy, but the comibantions of everything getting armour saves, the wide difference in range and blasts always landing somewhere (as well as the higher strength) means that the Russ wins, and that with a marginal...