Erfworld 160 - tBfGK 147

[fendrin]

I was right that Wanda was not loyal to Stanley (and so was Jillian...)
I was wrong about her being the Predictamancer.

Oh, and finally the speculation that someone other than Stanley attacked Faq will end. At this point, Wanda has no reason to lie, so I trust the info.

[teratorn]

Yes, this should send many threads into obscurity. So Wanda was behind Faq's fall but it was all a big misjudgement on Stanley's capability. Yes, he is an imbecile, but he knows his way around a battlefield.

[Bucket]

Wanda's tone and manner is changing - almost as if the Arkenpliers didn't attune to her... She's attuning to them.

Nicely Done!

[Xenon]

interesting. the identity of predictomancer revealed, with Strongbad cameo. Wanda and Parson seem to be talking about different things- parson about the win/lose of a game, Wanda about personal loss and hardship (he lost bogroll after all).

[SteveMB]

Yes, this should send many threads into obscurity. So Wanda was behind Faq's fall but it was all a big misjudgement on Stanley's capability. Yes, he is an imbecile, but he knows his way around a battlefield.

If Wanda's entire life experience was in Faq, she'd have no real idea what real warfare is like -- at most, she might have heard some of Jillian's anecdotes. That would make her misunderestimation of Stanley more likely (even if she'd seen his stats, she might have no real comprehension of what they imply, for the same reason we readers would be hard put to tell from the stats of Unit A and Unit B whether a fight between them would be a rout or a close call that the weaker-statted side might manage to win with clever tactics).

[factotum]

Yes, this should send many threads into obscurity. So Wanda was behind Faq's fall but it was all a big misjudgement on Stanley's capability. Yes, he is an imbecile, but he knows his way around a battlefield.

I think it's perhaps more likely that he was a high level warlord with a major artifact in his hands, attacking a kingdom which never fought anyone and thus presumably had a lot of low-level opposition.

[BBQLord]

At this point, Wanda has no reason to lie, so I trust the info.

No reason that we, as of now, know of. Still, I'd wager her words can be trusted in this instance.

Now I'm left wondering though. Is Wanda going to leave Stanley's side? Covertly or overtly? Is there any chance she's going to attack Stanley if she likes the odds? Should/will and/or can Parson follow her if she leaves?

[Demonicbunny]

Interesting.
MC hammers real first name is also Stanley. Or has that been mentioned before?

[Killer Angel]

If Wanda's entire life experience was in Faq, she'd have no real idea what real warfare is like -- at most, she might have heard some of Jillian's anecdotes. That would make her misunderestimation of Stanley more likely (even if she'd seen his stats, she might have no real comprehension of what they imply, for the same reason we readers would be hard put to tell from the stats of Unit A and Unit B whether a fight between them would be a rout or a close call that the weaker-statted side might manage to win with clever tactics).

Well, I would be afraid by anyone attuned to an arkentool, commanding a flock of Dwagons, with the advantage of surprise. 'specially if the opponent is a small reign with no experience in open warfare, without good warlord and with his most valuable warrior out for a mission...

But i think we must accept wanda's POW, otherwise it's unjustifiable the treachery from her part, given the Duty to FAQ

[chefsotero]

And on Stanley's pre-Arkenhammer scene he looks kinda whimpie, maybe he "atuned" as well. So maybe his change/megalomania is not only Wandas doing, could be the hammer as well.

And "Stop. Hammertime"?

Priceless

[Lunaya]

So over the course of a few strips, Wanda goes from super-villain cackling to almost solemn reflection. I love that there's so much we don't know about her. It'll be interesting to see what happens when Stanley gets back. I can see Parson getting caught between them.

[Sieggy]

What is more interesting is that now we're beginning to get a sense of why Parson is actually here . . . and that his Fate is more than merely being a wrench in Stanley's toolbox. There seems to be a strong sense that Parson's presence is part of what is starting to look like Fate and Plot entwining to change the face of Erfworld. (damned Hippie conspiracies . . .)

There may have been more to the Summoning spell than meets the eye if this is the case . . . It may be that since Parson has no visible stats, he may not be directly subject to the normal rules of Erf, as he is not a 'unit', as are all other inhabitants. In which case, Stanley may be in for one bloody hell of a shock down the line when he tries to disband Parson in a fit of rage and discovers that it doesn't work . . .

I am hoping that Vol.2 goes into the whys and hows of why 'the Perfect Warlord' spell was created to begin with. It strikes me as being a major game breaker in and of itself, which may be why it was created in the first place.

[Gez]

I'm kinda disappointed that Jillian's theory about the fate of Faq was right. Though knowing her girlfriend was responsible should probably be more devastating than learning she blamed the wrong guy all these years.

[Tahnru]

I love Wanda's expression in Panel 8. The phrase "Old Eyes" comes to mind.

[SteveMB]

And on Stanley's pre-Arkenhammer scene he looks kinda whimpie, maybe he "atuned" as well. So maybe his change/megalomania is not only Wandas doing, could be the hammer as well.

I imagine this scene as the first time he tamed a dwagon with the Arkenhammer.

[Looks at dwagon.]

"OK, this'll work...."

[Looks at dwagon again, which somehow seems to have grown much larger and angrier]

"This had better work...."

[Looks at dwagon again. Tries to dispel mental image of the inside of the dwagon's mouth as his last sight on Erf.]

"Please, great Titans, let this work...."

[TazTheTerrible]

I was wrong about Stanley not being directly responsible for Faq, but I didn't think Wanda was the predictamancer.

Good update, but "instrument of Fate"? Bleh.

[Lolindir]

The way I see what Wanda means;

Parson was Fated to die (unwinnable scenario), but because he beat Fate, he has lost.
(Kinda like how religious people say someone's lost if they don't believe in the same God)

Or is this too deep/complex?

The question remained if Faq was conquered before or after the fall of Saline IV.

My say is before, so that Wanda could plot with Stanley how to get control of the side -> Kill Saline.

[Lamech]

So FAQ is cleared up. Kinda. Now this still raises the question how many other casters went along with Stanley and Wanda? I think Jack did since he wouldn't turn. Did the predictamancer? Although the gobwins might have killed the predictamancer. How did Wanda contact Stanley? We know Faq has a method of telecommunication, but I don't think it is Wanda; could another caster also betrayed Banhammer? And if three (Four?) casters turned why was he so unliked.

And I think Parson and Wanda are talking about differant things. Parson suffered personal loss, but absolutly crushed the opposition.

[Sieggy]

Wanda's tone and manner is changing - almost as if the Arkenpliers didn't attune to her... She's attuning to them.

Nicely Done!

Or it may merely be the satisfaction of finally reaching a goal promised long ago. Hers has been a journey marked by frustration and despair . . . and no small amount of guilt over her treachery and having to put up with Stanley. Her faith in Fate has finally been vindicated.

Finally, she has the Pliers, and it's all been worth it. Now she can begin to fulfill the destiny which Fate has in store for her . . . and Parson.

BUT . . . I'm curious to know what it was that Ansom took from her, then. It wasn't Jillian, as she and Wanda went their separate ways when Stanley destroyed FAQ. Jillian never bothered to go back to see what had happened to her, so she couldn't have been THAT concerned about Wanda (or Jack, or even Banhammer, for that matter). And Wanda never bothered to seek out Jillian, and use her mind games to induce Jillian to join her.

She joined Jetstone some time later, so it can't be that Ansom 'took' Jillian from Wanda - Ansom couldn't have been a rival for Jillian's affections if she thought Wanda was croaked, so there has got to be more to it than that.

[blackbird71]

The way I see what Wanda means;

Parson was Fated to die (unwinnable scenario), but because he beat Fate, he has lost.
(Kinda like how religious people say someone's lost if they don't believe in the same God)

Or is this too deep/complex?

I think she means that he's lost in the sense of what he has had to become in order to achieve his victory.

Wanda is probably having similar thoughts about her own situation right now. She has the arkentool she was promised, but at what cost?

[Jeivar]

Hm. Now I'm wondering if Wanda wasn't always so insidiously evil. It could be a case of gradual corruption of her character, after her severe miscalculation got her own kingdom wiped out. Living with guilt, despair, chafing under working for an idiot, failure after failure after failure . . .

Yeah, that could break a person down, given enough time. And it might explain why Jillian had such firm faith in Wanda's better nature. Though I wish Wanda would mention Jillian, so we'd get a clearer picture of where the barbarian fits into all this.

[DevilDan]

Hm. Now I'm wondering if Wanda wasn't always so insidiously evil. It could be a case of gradual corruption of her character, after her severe miscalculation got her own kingdom wiped out. Living with guilt, despair, chafing under working for an idiot, failure after failure after failure . . .

Yeah, that could break a person down, given enough time. And it might explain why Jillian had such firm faith in Wanda's better nature. Though I wish Wanda would mention Jillian, so we'd get a clearer picture of where the barbarian fits into all this.

Because betraying both your own side (even if only by revealing its existence given that it's greatest defense is its invisibility) and your "ally" Stanley isn't evil. She deserves to feel guilty and more, I'd say.

In all honesty, I'm somewhat disappointed to learn that its as, well, idiotically simple as this. Seriously, what good is fate if you need to do all that to make it happen? And didn't Wanda know about the predicted downfall of Faq? If there is no way around prophecies, I guess you immediately lose to Fate if you don't act directly to see a prophecy fulfilled.

[BLANDCorporatio]

Well, some questions answered ... for example it seems a lot likely that what Ansom and Jillian said about Stanley destroying Faq is true. I for one am pleased that it wasn't the Jetstones that destroyed Faq, that would have been ... meh.

On the other hand, we have several questions opening.

Why is Jack loyal to Stanley (even though he was given the chance to turn)?

Where did Ansom find the Pliers? They were not at Faq, and the Pliers were held as the answer to this next question-

What, exactly, did Ansom take from Wanda?

[fendrin]

Why is Jack loyal to Stanley (even though he was given the chance to turn)?

Jack may be under a loyalty spell, or he may be loyal to Wanda. It will be interesting to find out which (if either, or even both).

What, exactly, did Ansom take from Wanda?

I still think Wanda was referring to Jillian. Not that Ansom took her prior to the comic, but rather at the lake battle. Jillian chose Ansom over Wanda. If Wanda loves Jillian, it would make sense for Wanda to (irrationally) blame Ansom.

[R. Malcovitch]

Why is Jack loyal to Stanley (even though he was given the chance to turn)?

No he wasn't. That was foolamancy, while Jillian was battling the fake stanley/jack/dragon the real trio was escaping.

[hajo]

why 'the Perfect Warlord' spell was created ..
It strikes me as being a major game breaker in and of itself

Considering that the spell produced several artifacts, where the battle-calculator alone is worth more than the cost of the spell, maybe it was 'sponsored' by the hippiemancers

[Opal Tide]

Is it possible the predictamancer also gave Jack a prediction?

Maybe somehting like the only way he would be with Jillian is if FAQ fell to Stanley and Stanley stayed alive for X amount of time. That would be a strong incentive stay do Stanley's bidding but not necessarily be loyal to Stanley.

Also I am not entirely convinved loyalty exists. We have been told it exists but if Wanda can but her own Kingdom at risk and claim she is loyal to Fate magic maybe it is just something everybody thinks exists. Sort of like a self fulfilling prophecy: people are loyal because they think they should be loyal.

[Spot]

Considering that the spell produced several artifacts, where the battle-calculator alone is worth more than the cost of the spell, maybe it was 'sponsored' by the hippiemancers

This ties into my "It was all a Hippiemancer/Caster conspiracy" theory


Wanda betrayed FAQ to Stanley based on (a loose interpretation of) the predictamancer's advice...

...and the one, and only, battle that we know Stanley managed to win was the conquest of FAQ.

After that, it was a loooooong losing streak as he lost every single city he had, up until it was time for the Hippiemancers to suggest the "Perfect Warlord" spell... made by Predictamancers and Lookamancers.

So... either Stanley got brilliant *once*, and only once, in his entire life... or the fall of FAQ was stage-managed from elsewhere.

In fact, I strongly suspect that the death of King Saline IV was stage-managed by the same bunch of folks.

I bet that Janice (the Grand Abie), and Jack, and the Predictamancer from FAQ, are all linked somehow.

[SteveD]

I still think Wanda was referring to Jillian. Not that Ansom took her prior to the comic, but rather at the lake battle. Jillian chose Ansom over Wanda. If Wanda loves Jillian, it would make sense for Wanda to (irrationally) blame Ansom.

My thoughts exactly. We now know why Wanda never tried to turn Jillian to her side; it would mean telling her the truth of Faq and risk loosing her. Instead she clung on to Jillian with a compulsion spell, and lost her anyway.

But if you re-read the battle over the lake baring in mind that Jillian is Wanda's only link to what she lost to pursue her path, it takes on a slightly new meaning.

It would also seem that the conflict between the revived Wanda and Jillian was more then just a defensive fight; Wanda realised she couldn't keep anything of her past and tried to kill Jillian. I don't think she will show much remorse or pity for what happened to Ansom at their next meeting.

Edit: Its also kinda spooky how much sense Wanda's little poem makes now;

"Rejoice, despair.
Fate Does not care.
Each knotted mind entwined,
Each soul, another's bind.
And blind, although we are led,
In time, we do know when to cut a thread."

[glissle]

Considering that the spell produced several artifacts, where the battle-calculator alone is worth more than the cost of the spell, maybe it was 'sponsored' by the hippiemancers

Hmm, the hippiemancers might have arranged for the spell to choose a non-in-game person so that he would be able to literally set aside his combat prowess, ruthlessness, and ability to view people as numbers (calculator & glasses). He is the only warlord on Erf who is compartmentalized that way.