Avatar Battle Royale Discussion Thread XXIV: What is this "Haste" you speak of?

[Mina Kobold]

I think the big sticking point is that, by choosing a group to make the "secret" intro to FI, you're saying that "These people are the leaders of ABR". You're establishing a heiarchy, and people don't like that.

Speak for yourself, I agree with Mad's methods most of the time and he does ask us if it's alright a lot of the times so I'm neutral to hierarchy. (then again I woulda been on the German side of the war for a very good reason, guess why )

@Tiff: That ending is pretty good to me (though I haven't watched it very much)

PS: I like the rules for FI, they are fitting. But they mean Moss and White needs to die before FI (they aren't from this reality) or do D-jumper hitch hikers count as related grounds.

[Tiffanie Lirle]

I just don't agree with the assumption that "Sudden death for any reason" is realistic in any way. What's wrong with simply incapacitating someone?

Besides, I doubt a character will be instagibbed by someone the moment they step into the action. There will probably be some sort of chance to save oneself in most scenarios. Also, I can't see many of the people here going overboard with it.

I can't see a lot of charaters killing people all that much, if at all. It just feels like everyone is saying "When you enter a fight, someone WILL die" when it should be, "When you enter a fight, someone MAY die". The PM thing is just so we don't have half a million "Bang, your dead! No, bang YOUR dead!" moments or even just have someone get insta-gibbed.

Don't think anybody said that a pc death in every fight is a sure thing, however unlike FFF, pc deaths are a sure thing in FI.

I can agree with the pm system, if a fight becomes too contrived. But until people start getting their wires crossed it seems wholly unnecessary for every single scrap and tangle, and it would really ruin the whole risk one takes in FI.

[Darklord Bright]

Don't think anybody said that a pc death in every fight is a sure thing, however unlike FFF, pc deaths are a sure thing in FI.

I can agree with the pm system, if a fight becomes too contrived. But until people start getting their wires crossed it seems wholly unnecessary for every single scrap and tangle, and it would really ruin the whole risk one takes in FI.

Just feels like "Sure, you can play the game, but you have to deal with the fact that this beartrap could close over your hands at any time..." to me.

I still plan on participating in FI, of course, but until I've done it I'm unconvinced that it will be fun, and isn't that why we're all here?

[Tiffanie Lirle]

Just feels like "Sure, you can play the game, but you have to deal with the fact that this beartrap could close over your hands at any time..." to me.

But that's the entire point. It's a gamble, play your cards right and you'll be fine. With a little luck of course.

I still plan on participating in FI, of course, but until I've done it I'm unconvinced that it will be fun, and isn't that why we're all here?

What's not fun for one person may just be fun for someone else though. And while making sure everyone has a good time here is important, it's impossible to make every single person 100% happy.

[Mad Mask]

There are also highly defended areas in some parts of the world, like UNA bases and ALF headquarters, that would mean instant death/capture for enemy intruders without heavy weapons. I mean, it would be highly unrealistic for a character to walk through a field of snipers and say "no you can't kill me because I didn't agree to do that".

[Darklord Bright]

But that's the entire point. It's a gamble, play your cards right and you'll be fine. With a little luck of course.


What's not fun for one person may just be fun for someone else though.

Just because some people find basejumping without a parachute exhilarating does not mean it is a good idea.

There are also highly defended areas in some parts of the world, like UNA bases and ALF headquarters, that would mean instant death/capture for enemy intruders without heavy weapons. I mean, it would be highly unrealistic for a character to walk through a field of snipers and say "no you can't kill me because I didn't agree to do that".

I'm not going to disagree with this. I never called this out.

[Squark]

Personally, I think we should run fights like I've always thought they were here (or at least, how they are supposed to be fought)- You don't need to PM someone, but you do need to take into account the basic rules of ABR and Improv BRC and Lying made back during... The Citadel incident...


So, basically, you don't say, "I cut your head off." You say, "I try to cut your head off."

Or in this case, end your comic with the aforementioned decapitation just seconds away.


Personally, I think we just need to set some basic ground rules, most of them rooted in common sense ("No, you cannot assault the heavily defended UNA base by charging at it."), with allowances for dramatic necessity (You can run at the base and get to the door with a bomb strapped to you, but your obviously going to explode when you get to said door.)

[Mad Mask]

Hmm... How about this:

If your character is in the open without any form of protection (even limited), it is within the right of another participant to disable you and maybe even kill you, if so is appropriate.

[Mina Kobold]

There are also highly defended areas in some parts of the world, like UNA bases and ALF headquarters, that would mean instant death/capture for enemy intruders without heavy weapons. I mean, it would be highly unrealistic for a character to walk through a field of snipers and say "no you can't kill me because I didn't agree to do that".

I just remembered, there IS a safety net;
Necromancy! If your character DO die then have fun with a vampire version! Of course you could also avoid situations too dangerous if you are that much against it dying.

And that would be realistic Mad, they could be coming to haggle/surrender or be on the snipers side

[Squark]

MM, that's going a bit to far.


How about, "Just use common sense. This is guerrilla warfare, and, excluding extenuating circumstances, behave as such?"

[Darklord Bright]

So, basically, you don't say, "I cut your head off." You say, "I try to cut your head off."

Or in this case, end your comic with the aforementioned decapitation just seconds away.

This is more what I'm getting at. Now, I've got to go, but I just thought I should put my opinion out there. ABR has, and will always be for everyone. Not a select few. I'm not suggesting you bend to what I wan't to do, merely stating that I will not be the last to call this out.

[Tiffanie Lirle]

Just because some people find basejumping without a parachute exhilarating does not mean it is a good idea.

But the thing is, nobody here is forcing you to jump. Just because you take part in FI doesn't mean your character is going to die, just don't do anything stupid any you'll be fine. Unless you get extremely unlucky and get caught in some kind of battle.

you don't say, "I cut your head off." You say, "I try to cut your head off."

This is what I'm trying to get at, death will (probably) always be avoidable through the right course of actions if it's by another pc. But if you do something stupid or decide to have a rambo moment, then you should be prepared for what's gonna happen.

Hmm... How about this:

If your character is in the open without any form of protection (even limited), it is within the right of another participant to disable you and maybe even kill you, if so is appropriate.

Who in their right mind is going to wander around unarmed and defenseless given the setting though?

[BRC]

Most of Mad Mask's rules are rules we've already been using, we just havn't written them down yet.

Like, for example, if you kill somebody else's character without their permission, a huff is raised and your comic gets non-canoned, and if you want to know what happens when you try to make your character unreasonably powerful, just ask Squark.

As always, the penalty for breaking these rules is the same, we declare your comic Non-Canon. All Mad Mask did was outline the things that would cause decanonization.


As for fight scenes, the "Death with permission" is really the only method that works. It relies on a certain level of maturity, a willingness to understand that we are telling a story here and not merely flexing our egos, but such a level is present amongst most ABRites.

Without that rule, who is to say when a character can live or die. What's to stop me from making a comic where Ven, having used his mad computer intellect to perfectly predict where Keren Dewey, Grim Ranger, Tiffanie's Character, and all the other UNA PC's are going to be at some point, and then simultenously set off a series of bombs that kills them all.


.
It should be noted that this is also reliant on people recognizing certain limits. If you try to storm UNA headquarters singlehandidly,armed only with your MAD SKILLZ, you are going to either have you character killed/maimed/taken prisoner/some combination of the three, or if you insist on single handidly taking out all the UNA troops, breaking Dewey's skull with Grandfather's cane, and then stabbing Ins with an Arcanian Battle Spork, We're going to declare the sequence non-canon.

[Squark]

This is more what I'm getting at. Now, I've got to go, but I just thought I should put my opinion out there. ABR has, and will always be for everyone. Not a select few. I'm not suggesting you bend to what I wan't to do, merely stating that I will not be the last to call this out.

And, of course, this goes hand-in-hand with the agreement that this is a cooperative work, and as such one should not do stupid things like the aforementioned charge into a sniper nest and expect to get away unscathed.


Basically, No Godmodding for you OR npc's.


Except for Ins, because He'll have plot immunity from any assassination for a while.


EDIT: Ok, now, we're all ninja'ing each other.

[Mad Mask]

MM, that's going a bit to far.


How about, "Just use common sense. This is guerrilla warfare, and, excluding extenuating circumstances, behave as such?"

While I agree with this method, there's always the problem of suicidal people who charge into a platoon of tanks with only a sword, expecting to win and becoming angry when people say it's stupid and refusing to say that it's non-canon.

Would you mind if someone killed him ?

EDIT: @BRC: I just read your blurb and I think I agree with you.

v: Really ? Hmm...

[Squark]

Kind of, yes.


For the record, we do need to take into the account that this IS a story, and as such, a certain ammount of refuge in audacity has to be allowed.


This is not to say that the sword idiot should not get curb stomped- I'm just saying we need to work with him to make the plot work.


Also, we do need to make sure the other plots are slightly more easy going and lighter, so people can play in those instead of FI.

[Mad Mask]

Kind of, yes.

For the record, we do need to take into the account that this IS a story, and as such, a certain ammount of refuge in audacity has to be allowed.

This is not to say that the sword idiot should not get curb stomped- I'm just saying we need to work with him to make the plot work.

Also, we do need to make sure the other plots are slightly more easy going and lighter, so people can play in those instead of FI.

Let's just wait and see and use our common sense when troublesome situations arrives.

[Mina Kobold]

While I agree with this method, there's always the problem of suicidal people who charge into a platoon of tanks with only a sword, expecting to win and becoming angry when people say it's stupid.

Would you mind if someone killed him ?

Depends on the sword, but in most cases having a sword that powerful would be god-modding anyway so I say I wouldn't mind someone killing him.

[chriky]

I have no problem with someone being knocked out or being out down to critical damage but I like squarks idea of not actuall fully killing someone and giving them a way of escaping if they really want to.

[Squark]

On the other hand, this is a magical world, so we do have to take into account that the a +5 Flaming Burst Adamantine Greatsword probably could take out a tank, if you didn't get killed by anti-infantry fire/flattened by the tank's treads.


In more immediate news, I need a character, preferably a player character, to blow up a UNA civilian house.


Should I just make up a throw-away character, or is there someone who wouldn't mind having their character do that?

I have no problem with someone being knocked out or being out down to critical damage but I like squarks idea of not actuall fully killing someone and giving them a way of escaping if they really want to.

Strictly speaking, its BRC's idea, and I believe he took it from the rules for Improv, and I know its the golden rule of the Town roleplaying on these boards.

[Tiffanie Lirle]

I have no problem with someone being knocked out or being out down to critical damage but I like squarks idea of not actuall fully killing someone and giving them a way of escaping if they really want to.

^This (filler)

This is what I'm trying to get at, death will (probably) always be avoidable through the right course of actions if it's by another pc. But if you do something stupid or decide to have a rambo moment, then you should be prepared for what's gonna happen.

[Mina Kobold]

In more immediate news, I need a character, preferably a player character, to blow up a UNA civilian house.


Should I just make up a throw-away character, or is there someone who wouldn't mind having their character do that?

Depends on why, Argonath would if there was a good reason to it.

Care to explain whyit should be blown up?

[-skimmer-]

While I agree with this method, there's always the problem of suicidal people who charge into a platoon of tanks with only a sword, expecting to win and becoming angry when people say it's stupid and refusing to say that it's non-canon.

Would you mind if someone killed him ?

I'm sure I saw this exact scene somewhere.....

[chriky]

Ok i agree with that I think it's alright that you should die if you put yourself up against someone much stronger than you. However I don't think equally based fights should often end in a fatality.

[Mad Mask]

In more immediate news, I need a character, preferably a player character, to blow up a UNA civilian house.

Should I just make up a throw-away character, or is there someone who wouldn't mind having their character do that?

Ernst Schwarz probably wouldn't mind at all. Also maybe Chriky, but you'll have to ask him.

[Mina Kobold]

I'm sure I saw this exact scene somewhere.....

Hey it hasn't been published over here, at least tell if it's a spoiler

[Lyinginbedmon]

I can't type anything fast enough to respond.

[Squark]

Errr...


For... Plot-moving-forward reasons


Although, if it comes down to it, I could have Ins arrange the explosion himself, since he's...


Well, I geuss there's no point in hiding it, since you're going to start speculating as soon as the reveal is done-

Here's a transcript of the conversation with MM, spoilered for length.

Spoiler

Show

Well, since replicating Onasuma's method would involve killing both a child and a sovice block and then drawing the wrong soul to the body, Ins wouldn't probably use that method. Instead he'll just inject Sovice nanites and make some "adjustments".

Here are my adjustments to the biographies. Tell me if you have any objections.

Conservator of the Peace James Ins of the UNA Peacekeepers:

Leader of the UNA Peacekeepers, he is officially Ins's adopted son. But in fact, he was kidnapped by Ins and injected with Sovice nanites to become one of his most trusted operators. He is ruthless in his pursuit of the resistance, but plays the good cop in public. He is fond of staging explosions at the scene of the crime to villify the resistance.

Although staging explosions isn't really necessary since a lot of the ALF (including the Schizian members and Chriky's followers) are really nothing but well-intentioned terrorists.

President Talia Ins of the UNA General Assembly

Ins's adopted daughter, Talia is a vocal proponent of peaceful methods of stopping the resistance in the General Assembly. In reality, she is one of Ins's best assassins. Like James, Talia was adopted at a young age, and Ins used the same method on her.

TBH, I don't think Ins would have any problem at all with killing a child, but I'll defer to your judgement.

It's more about killing the block.

Again, I don't think Ins would have a problem with that

My plan is to introduce the characters here, with Ins either seizing an opportunity, or creating one, and adopting them when they're around age 8.

[Mina Kobold]

I can't type anything fast enough to respond.

That's an illusion, I thought I couldn't either but I could

[chriky]

In more immediate news, I need a character, preferably a player character, to blow up a UNA civilian house.

Do you mean sort of like a suicide bomber. If you do then i'm out. But if you just want like a timed bomb to be planted then Chriky or one of his associates could do that like MM said.