Community Worldbuilding Project [Ishka: Urban and Urbane]

[BRC]

How about this. Occasionally, raiders of an unknown persuasion or a random monster will spill out of one of the temporary, randomly-occuring gates. The monsters will rampage and are almost always put down by some sort of peace-keeper. The raiders spill out, gank stuff, stab people, and retreat back into the gate just as it closes. They have been captured before, but they all seem to die shortly after the closing of the gate. No two seem to be alike - while all having the same basic abilities, they all are structurally quite different, with different dental patters, eye count, finger count, limb length, skin colour and texture, and so on.

Defeating a raider party or putting down a gate beast is a good way to earn a bit of prestige in the eyes of law-enforcement organizations.

Hrmm, Okay. That sounds good.

You know what, let's just say that the fabric between the planes is weak in the City, for some reason. Thus explaining the random portals, the Raiders and Monsters, and even the high number of Free-Willed undead (Portals to the Negative Energy plane are fairly common, leading to free-floating negative energy that seeps into and animates corpses.)

[Vadin]

Oh goodness! How did I miss this last night? (Oh, right...that was a damn crazy party)

Can anyone cite a list of things that are:

Generally Agreed Upon, Specifics Included

Generally Agreed Upon, Specifics Undecided

Proposed Ideas, Awaiting General Consensus

Ideas On Hiatus Until They Fit

Scrapped Ideas


Also, having read through the first few posts, this sounds great for World of Darkness- urban, intrigue, combat-optional, madness!

[Strawman]

The Civil Servants-

This is a powerful organization that spans the entire city. To become a member, you must be Lawful Neutral. The Civil Servants are essentially bodyguards for all the other city organizations, like the Street Builders, who are not able to defend themselves.

The Civil Servants are not a police force, but rather a bodyguard service. Policing is generally left to each district's own system, like The Order of the Bone Shield.

---------

Also, I can see a lot of interesting conflict between The Holy Hands of Saint Merkiel and The Order of the Bone Shield. Whenever an undead commits a crime in one of the Holy Hands' hospitals, the Holy Hands will want to take care of it themselves. When The Order of the Bone Shield shows up a lot of tension will build.

[BRC]

Here's another Citywide Organization
The Municipal Investigators
With the city so divided, Criminals seem to have it easy. Since the various districts have their own, often rival, police forces, all A criminal needs to do to escape arrest is move from one district to another. At least, until the Municipal Investigators get involved. They do not personally make arrrests, preffering to determine the location and nature of the criminals, then leave the actual arresting to the police. However, when that's not an option, the Investigators will make the arrests personally, which usually causes problems as the local police get offended by the "Munnies" doing their job for them.

The Munnies are the standard enemies of the Cutthroat Alliance. When Alliance involvement is proven, the Investigators always take the lead personally, not trusting the local police to be uncorrupt or competant enough to help against the Alliance.

[50cr4t3s]

Oh goodness! How did I miss this last night? (Oh, right...that was a damn crazy party)

Can anyone cite a list of things that are:

Generally Agreed Upon, Specifics Included

Generally Agreed Upon, Specifics Undecided

Proposed Ideas, Awaiting General Consensus

Ideas On Hiatus Until They Fit

Scrapped Ideas


Also, having read through the first few posts, this sounds great for World of Darkness- urban, intrigue, combat-optional, madness!

Well we've haven't really Agreed upon anything yet. But we have come up with several ideas which we're running with for the time being. Including the Necropolis (and subsequently The Order of the Bone Shield), The Alliance (a criminal syndicate), and the randomly occurring planar gates throughout the city. We've got some other organizations and locations we're tossing around, such as the Steamworks, Primordium, etc.

My advice, read the whole thread. I know what you're thinking, but we've had alot of good ideas pop up here, and it's worth your time to check it out.

[Strawman]

These are some of the ideas proposed so far. These are just very brief summaries, and do not go into the finer details of each idea that might make it more interesting. I may have missed some ideas (accidentally, so no offense intended). I am also going to refrain from posting the ideas about government right now, as it will be easier to figure out once the majority of districts and organizations are made. Also, everything here is just a list of ideas, and the ideas are still being discussed and are not finalized.

City Premise-

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What once started as a small settlement at the bottom of a canyon has grown into a city. As the city grows, it expands upward along the canyon walls, making layer atop layer. Giant trees grow along with the city. The city has grown tall enough that there are parts of it atop the canyon, where people live on gigantic bridges. The city also expanded onto and into a nearby lake, and it has a very tall tower. There are portals in the city that lead to various planes (the exact nature of the portals is still being discussed).

City Problems-

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Tensions between districts and organizations are always high.

Occasionally raiders comprised of various monsters will come through the city’s portals and wreck havoc.

Districts-

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Lake District- this district has buildings floating on the lake, as well as underwater structures.

The Mages District- has a gate to the Astral Plane, and a bazaar of bizarre things.

The Necropolis- an undead community led by a lich named Graveborle the Uncaring. Graveborle appoints ministers to run the district. Interesting novelties are valuable in this district as powerful undead use them to get the favor of Graveborle. Has a gate to the Negative Energy Plane.

Primordium- A district available through one of the city’s planar gates. It was original made from the spot that the city started on, but now is a luxurious spot that houses the city’s council.

The Steamworks- Actually several locations, The Steamworks are steam-powered factory regions scattered throughout the city. They are powered by permanent elemental fonts and provide most of the technological advances in the city.

The Tower- There is a very tall tower in the city. How tall exactly is undecided so far, but the thing is big.

Organizations-

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The Civil Servants- a citywide organization that serves as bodyguards to other city organizations. Made entirely of Lawful Neutral individuals.

The Cutthroat Alliance- they are a guild of criminals that is wide spread underground, especially in less savory districts. The alliance uses small secret gates to travel and escape, making the organization extremely hard to pin down. Law enforcement agencies frequently try to destroy, or at least curb the activities of, the C.A.

The Eyes- they comprise a spy network. The Eyes were started by a previous regime, but managed to survive when more recent regimes tried to shut them down. Currently they continue to provide the city council with reports on the city, and The Eyes can provide information at a price.

The Eyes of Justice- a policing organization in the Mages District.

The Holy Hands of Saint Merkiel- A coalition of clerics and holy-men from numerous good religions that have banded together. This guild has temples/hospitals in every district of the city, more so in heavily populated districts. The H.H.O.S.M. are enemies of The O.B.S.

Humans First- this is an organization that believes the city was founded by humans (a matter not up for dispute amongst the city residents). They are essentially a hate group that wants non-humans to either be kicked out or kept from running the city. Some members are secretive, others vocal, and the organization has a not insignificant influence on The Council.

The Merchant Agents- they police The Steamworks.

The Municipal Investigators- a citywide organization devoted to investigating criminals that evade local police forces. The M.I. are enemies of The Cutthroat Alliance.

The Order of the Bone Shield- they are a citywide organization that polices the undead.
The O.B.S. (or O.O.T.B.S.) also defends undead from people attacking them without good reason. They are enemies of The H.H.O.S.M.

The Streetbuilders- they are a massive citywide organization that employs everyone from unskilled laborers to expert mages. They spend most of their time repairing the infrastructure of the city, but occasionally start a large-scale construction project. These projects are most often left unfinished.

The Watch- they are a policing organization in a human community.

[Renrik]

Ideas!

1.You could have it cut off from the rest of the world by a time anomaly of some sort. I'm not sure what kind, but it could work out.

2.The Necropolis should have significant influence because it is the only safe place to store dead bodies, which there are sure to be a great deal of. Storing dead bodies elsewhere would present a public safety hazard from disease, and just be unpleasant, and land is probably at a premium, considering people are living on bridges. So, any cultures that don't cremate their dead would have to hand them over to the Necropolis. Indeed, they may even have to pay a fee. There are probably some who don't hand their dead over to the Necropolis. These bodies, especially in poorer areas that house workshops (specifically, alchemical workshops), are beneath magical districts, or are near dumping sites, may have wild undead as a result of improperly dumped bodies. Since randomly created undead due to magical pollution are usually mindless, these would probably be hunted by the Order of the Bone Sheild and the Hands of Saint Merkiel.

3. There would need, also, to be some kind of laws governing the fulfilling of certain needs in undead. Perhaps some humans get paid to act as donors, or a grisly black market exists of fodder children kidnapped or sold into victimization by their impoverished parents.

4. Where does the living population's food come from? High-level wizards with conjurations spells can only do so much, and land would be at too much a premium to allow agriculture within the city, though certainly a number of gardens could exist at the rare patch of unpaved ground. I have three solutions:
a. The outskirts of the city give way to huge expanses of plantations where agricultural laborers work for the land owners, probably some of the same people who are involved in the steamworks. The crops are sold to the wealthy merchants and make their way through the city.
b. Demiplanes devoted to agriculture, privately owned. Again, a permanent agricultural class remains.
c. Trade with other planes- the city just produces finished goods and must rely on other entities for all its food needs through trade.

I would guess there to be a mixture of the three.

7. Organization: The Collective
It's more than a union, it's a particularly strong one, and then some. It's name is awful, and can be changed, of course. Basically, this organization is put in to provide drama and tension in the steamworks, and so the DM can easily explore some socialist ideas in-game. The Collective is your standard-issue fantasy communist organization, bent on overthrowing the capitalists and installing a network of worker's councils to oversee the production of goods in collectively owned steamworks factories. Bend them as you see fit- they've got branches. Their primary activities include distributing their philosophies, holding rallies, performing strikes, bombings and assassinations of the merchant class, sabotaging capital to preserve jobs, occupying factories, and organizing unions. Unlike most unions, the collective includes members of the agricultural labor force, too.

8. Organization: The Wild
Not everyone likes the city. It's a depressing, dehumanizing place, far removed from the natural way of life. In a city, everything is created, planned, and defined by sentient standards, meant to fit into sentient goals and expectations, held by systemic order and made to conform to predictable sentient law.
Not everyone is happy with this arrangement. The Wild represents a kind of network, or perhaps more of a series of cells, of people bound by a common philosophy: the city is a blight and must be destroyed. Anti-consumerist and anarchic (of the luddite, primitivist strain) to a fault, these people do not appreciate the destruction of the once vibrant living community of the canyon with the unsustainable monoculture that is the city. They reject the idea of 'civilization', pointing out that the only thing that really separates us from the animals is that they don't ruin their own habitats and they don't fight wars. The scoff at the notion of 'progress'- progress assumes a goal, and the only foreseeable result of this reckless use of the earth is the annihilation of the entire living community. This is not a goal the members of the Wild support.
The Wild, whose members are alternately known as Ludds, is by turns both a friendly and supportive community and a guerilla warfare campaign on civilization. Among their own, Ludds try to carve out little and restore some balance to their surroundings. Most of the world, however, only knows of the Wild through their attacks on merchants lords, factories, the street builders, and others. Some members of the Wild also hate magic (other than that of druids and their ilk), though others see it as a part of the natural world. Most members of the Wild are refugees from non-city areas who are disgusted with their new surroundings, or are converts to the ideology, usually after visiting an area not covered in cobblestones. Their membeship includes, naturally, plenty of druids, rangers, barbarians, and shugenjas, among others. Most refuse to work a regular job, and so instead scavenge the city and squat wherever they can. As a result the average Ludd looks like a grimy homeless person- which is yet another reason, in addition to the poor law enforcement and deterioration of the buildings, they live in some most depressed areas of the city.

9. Not all, but some, of the gates to other planes may have a fort on the other side to protect from these monster attacks and establish a trading post.

10. A pleasure district of some kind, not sure. I don;t want to flesh it out (pun intended) right now.

[BRC]

Concerning Corpses in the City, my idea was that, when somebody dies, they either buy expensive property to use as a gravesite or, as is much more common, they sell the corpses to one of several firms in the Necropolis, who sell the corpses to ghouls.

[Renrik]

The earlier idea of part of the city being a tangle of trees could work out interestingly. It could be a source of a good deal of the food, and a point from which the Wild movement spread and in which Ludds seek their refuge.

Otherwise, you'd have to have the elves be some kind of urbane aristocracy with no nature connection. This way, they can be both and still retain a cool superior air, while giving the city some extra variety.

What if some of the trees in that district were sentient, ancient beings who allowed their inhabitants to live on them in exchange for safety from the city?

What if the groves of nonsentient trees were continually growing into poorer areas while other groves were being cut down to make way for development? I don;t suppose there would be many abandoned areas, of course- though the necessary network of mycelium (mushrooms) in any forest could have taken over some of the mining shafts and sewers under and around the tree district, and be the home of a thriving myconid community.

There can also be a giant's district, maybe called 'Gulliver's Heights'? Well, maybe something less... you know.

How do dragons fit in? Maybe some of them lair in the deeper tunnels. Maybe some roost in the high towers.

[kopout]

concerning dragons I have an idea where a pair of dragons are arguing over the section of territory that the village was in. in order to resolve it the decide to play a game of skill in the lair in question. knowing that dragon games routinely last decades they ward their lairs and take a contingent each of their kobold guard. in a cave several mials away from the village and a hundred feet up the wall they set up to play, in forming the kobolds that it is their responsibility to fetch refreshments as needed. 270 years later after a spectacular game the loser is banished and try to leave the cavern however the entrance is now deep in side the city, in the kobold district to be precise. Realizing that fighting their way out would get them killed the dragons wisely decide stay put.

[Strawman]

Some ideas about rules regarding the undead- enforced by The Order of the Bone Shield.

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1. A member of the Undead may not be killed or attacked unless that member has threatened harm on another being. The exception to this is during a consensual duel that allows for kills.

2. A member of the Undead may not come within five feet of a child of a species without the permission of at least one parent of the child. If an Undead breaks this rule, it counts as a threat when considering rule 1.

3. An undead may not make use of a corpse without the permission of those responsible for the corpse’s care. Corpses that no one is responsible for belong to whoever first claims the corpse.

4. Civilians in public places may not use devices that produce an equivalent to natural sunlight. This is to protect members of the Undead who may be hurt by sunlight.

5. Non-sentient members of the Undead may be destroyed if they are impeding business or damaging property. This is due to non-sentient members of the Undead being thought of as property. If the owner of a business has entered into a prior agreement with a controller of undead concerning the undeads’ behavior, this law does not apply.

Of course, members of the Undead that are citizens must abide by the same laws as all other citizens, and are protected by those same laws. Some of these laws overlap with The O.B.S. rules, but general opinion in the O.B.S. is that ignorant people need to be reminded of the rights of undead.

I like the dragon idea. Perhaps the dragons bicker and squable alot, but generally work together so that organizations in the city do not take their land and rights away. Also, worshippers of a dragon god may have built a temple between the dragons' lair and the city. This would explain why the city did not discover and interfere with the dragons in the last couple hundred centuries.

[BRC]

Concerning the Order of the Bone Sheild, and the Holy Hands. How about this, part of the rivalry is due to the fact that both organizations are an oddity amongst the city police forces. While the Bone Shields serve primarily as the Necropolis's police, they are also responsible for enforcing the laws concerning undead throught the city, as well as with hunting down criminals whose undead nature makes them unique from most (A couple Zombies can be hunted down by normal cops. A Vampire, or a Ghast or somthing similar, requires the Bonesheild's expertise).

The Hands are another oddity, in addition to being the Temple district's police, they are in charge of protecting Temples and Clergy members throughout the city. Oftentimes Supersitious citizens who are afraid of or threatened by an Undead, will ask their local cleric for assistance. Oftentimes, the cleric will move in to assist, bringing the Hands with them, and therefore running into conflict with the Boneshields.

[puppyavenger]

Very interesting idea's, but one thing, how does the city defend itself?

Because a single catapult shot, dropped or thrown boulder, or hell just something heavy dying above it would kill hundred and wreck thousand of homes.


So you need either
a. the worlds most uber-awesome mega-magically-improved-military
b. they're some kind of universally recognized mega-Switzerland
or c. they're isolated in a way that makes attacking them impossible.

[Vadin]

Name: The Area's Official Name
Other Names: Clever or derogatory codenames- think about it from the perspective of other districts
Government Type: More Specific Than 'Aristocracy'
Police Force: Common Name That Describes Their Quirks

Description of the area's inhabitants, social dynamics, architecture, culture, and any other relevant bits of information


I'm a fan of this format. And ho! First jump into this project.

Name: Customs and Immigrations
Other Names: Foreigner's Corner, Little Gateville, CnI
Government Type: Under the direct control of the city council, this is the one area that sends no representative there
Police Force: The Social Inspectors

In CnI, there are large gates to other planes. Not one-way gates or gates that allow travel between to points in the city, but an array of several gates to small inhabited cities on other planes. It is here that immigrants to the city must pass through if they wish to achieve legality, and it's the Social Inspectors (commonly referred to as the SI) who decide this. If they think you speak proficient enough Common, have enough wealth, and have some useful talent, they'll let you stay. If you can't prove you're worth it, however, they'll send you right back through the way you came without a second thought (and you don't get your warp fee back, either).

The Social Inspectors have gotten in trouble with the past for denying certain kinds of visitors more often than others, but there is often little anything beyond a direct decree from the city council can do to stop immigration discrimination.

Some of the most frequently used gates are the ones from the Elemental Chaos (home to many genasi and the raw elemental forces that power the Steamworks), the Astral Plane (classy illithids and less class giths and ganks find their way from here), and Celestia (common immigrants are aasimar, rogue leonals, and other 'less-than-divine' visitors who can't quite take the rigors of perfect living anymore).



Food was mentioned much earlier. The idea that most appealed to me: the land at the top of the canyon is controlled by Farm Lords who grow, alongside huge amounts of grain for the majority of the city, rare fruits for the wealthier citizens. They also train some of the best chefs in the city- a party thrown by a Farm Lord will have the best hors d' oeuvres and the finest wines.

[Strawman]

Very interesting idea's, but one thing, how does the city defend itself?

Because a single catapult shot, dropped or thrown boulder, or hell just something heavy dying above it would kill hundred and wreck thousand of homes.


So you need either
a. the worlds most uber-awesome mega-magically-improved-military
b. they're some kind of universally recognized mega-Switzerland
or c. they're isolated in a way that makes attacking them impossible.

I figure that the layers of the city have to be constructed fairly tough, to support skyscrapers and factories. A single catapult would probably only do as much damage as it would to a normal city.

As far as a full-scale attack on the city, maybe there is some history to that.
Fifty years ago, a small nation attacked the city because it had a known Necropolis. They managed to destroy a sizeable portion of the city, which killed many and disrupted the flow of the city for decades. The city, in response, banded together just about every organization and every district and went to war. They used the more advanced technology available in the city, its huge population, and a suprisingly patriotic attitude towards the city to utterly devastate the small nation. Afterwards a few of the more evil parts of the city even turned the masses of dead in the small nation into an undead army. That army stood around the city for years, until it was decided by the city that the "message was sent" to the world's nations. As records are sketchy, people to this day debate whether the undead army was destroyed or hidden.

Since then, nobody has messed with the city. The worst to happen is the occasional infiltration and internal attack, but the Customs and Immigration organization catches most of those.

[Owrtho]

I'd also expect a number of farms for subterranean plants that put to use some of the used up mine caves.

Also, thought I'd note that the Cutthroat Alliance (at least as I'd intended it) is more a conglomerate of the majority of the crime groups in the city (likely around 80% of the organized groups and 50% of the more small time or solo criminals). It has allot of infighting (which while discouraged isn't cared about by most), but tends to work together mainly to protect its members from authorities. Even uniting to take out people who are thought to threaten the alliance. Also they set up networks for use of their members in escaping, hiding, information gathering, etc. Many of the more shady businesses also tend to be members of the alliance.

Owrtho

[Vadin]

Are we going with coastal mining, or grounds up from a canyon? I've been looking at this as the latter, like if someone made a city in a narrower version of the Grand Canyon.

[Owrtho]

Based on what seems to be the current idea it is the latter. Also it might not be narrower than the Grand Canyon.

Owrtho

[BRC]

So, Does the City have a name, or is it simply "The City"?

[Vadin]

It needs a name. A name that sounds vaguely insectoid and reminiscent of beehives and ant colonies. A name that sounds wild and extraplanar and full of awa. A name that sounds postively otherworldly. A name that sounds like a land of opportunity and rolls of the tongue with minimal effort.

Ideas?

[BRC]

It needs a name. A name that sounds vaguely insectoid and reminiscent of beehives and ant colonies. A name that sounds wild and extraplanar and full of awa. A name that sounds postively otherworldly. A name that sounds like a land of opportunity and rolls of the tongue with minimal effort.

Ideas?

Just off the top of my head
"Iska"

[jagadaishio]

I'm feeling the name Iska, but it may need a tweak or two.

Iska? Isaka? Iskia?

As for Customs and Immigration, I like the idea, but I think that the gates there should only be opened when enough of a critical mass is present in one of the extraplanar cities is sufficient to afford its opening. The Immigration gates, in turn, would be able to open to any city on that plane which they're affiliated with, instead of just one city. The reason for this is that other places in the city which have permanent or recurring gates as just an extension of the city itself. The Bazaar of the Bizarre in the Mage's District extends onto the Astral Plane as something of a massive market protected by a fortress, and the Necropolis has a gate that opens into a sort of gated community (pun!) for rich liches, vampires, and mummies who can afford a mansion there.

These gates always open to the same place. The ones at Immigration do not. In fact, it may be many years before a given city will have a new wave if people ready to emigrate from it. In this way, the Immigration gates don't lead to an annexation of planar territory like the others have.

On the topic of war and city vulnerability, I like the idea that the city has been attacked, proved quite vulnerable to it, and responded with overwhelming force. It would have happened long ago, so that it has become canonized in legend. The attacking force in question should be one that, by worldwide standards, is actually incredibly large, but compared to the city is little more than a small town - its entire population could be fit inside a single district.

Name: The Grove District
Other Names: The Woods, Little Wilderness, Faerietown (like Little Italy and Chinatown, respectively), the Groves
Government Type: Each ethnic group major enough to be recognized sends a single representative to a sort of elder's council. The council then picks a single trusted representative for their entire district. Notable ethnic groups are the Lycanthropes, who almost always have a Werebear on the council, the Treants, the Greater Fey, who usually post a Dryad, the Myconid, the Sprites, and the Druids. Other ethnic and political groups come and go. The Wild has been trying to get a seat on the elder council for years, and has yet to do so.
Police Force: The Rangers. The rangers (not all of them being actual rangers, of course) roam the levels of trees in their Groves, stopping any sort of exploitation of nature, keeping balance, and (when forced to) enforcing the laws of the city. There have been many a time when the rangers have ignored a crime because they didn't feel like enforcing it, and then arrested someone for harvesting green wood instead of dead wood.

I like the idea of Grove Districts, which would be single districts in the sense that the Steamworks is a single district. Throughout the city, there would be areas that massive groves grew, their branches growing higher than the top of the canyon and spilling out to make a massive canopy in those districts (most districts would not have that canopy cover). This would be the district of the city where plant creatures, some sentient animals, nature fey, druids, and most of the Wild tend to make their residence. The Steamworks and their residents tend to dislike the Groves, feeling that they waste too many resources that could be used for industrial and mercantile purposes. Indeed, the relatively slow trickle of darkwood out of the Groves keeps them well funded, artificially inflating the cost of darkwood, when a team of lumberjacks sent in to clear the place out could provide enough darkwood for a century in a single day.

I think that fact that the Holy Hands were proposed as something of a net of free hospitals, and not as a police force, needs to be brought up. They offer free healing in every district, but have no real enforceable powers. The reason why they're so at odds with the Necropolis is because they offer their positive energy powers in the Necropolis as well, where they're little more than a euthanasia clinic. To the citizens of the Necropolis, this would be something like a fully-staffed abortion clinic offering their services 24/7 for free. Some of the citizens just ignore it as long as they don't actually try to force it on anyone, but a lot are up in arms about it. They would likely face discrimination from the Bone Shield (who should actually carry shields of bone intricately inscribed, like functional versions of modern police badges) who trump up every charge possible against employees there who break even the most minor of laws.

I don't think that there would be a Kobold District, per se. Rather, there would be a "dragon district." There would be half-dragons, young dragons, dragonborn, kobolds, and all manner of other sentient dragonkind there. Pseudodragons would swoop through the skies catching birds in the same manner as the falcons that roost on skyscrapers in modern cities. In this district, there would be a truly massive temple, probably called something like the Temple of the Ancestors, which housed these Ancient dragons in their game. Now it serves as something of a palace for them, and they see amassing wealth through trade to be a new game, as in the past they had amassed it through raids. They are the de facto leaders of the district, and perhaps the two richest beings in the entire city.

Name: The Draconic Heritage Collective
Other Names: Dragonland, Dragon's Roost, Slayer's Hell
Government Type: A consulate of two ancient dragons
Police Force: The Dragonfire Brigade (The brigade is comprised exclusively of Dragonfire Adepts of a variety of races)

Way back in the day, a pair of ancient dragons (one red and one gold) decided to settle their difference in a rousing game of strategy. The loser was to be banished, and the winner to hold dominion over the loser's lands. Both brought with them a contingent of kobold worshippers, who were to serve and provide for them as they played in an isolated cave in a canyon wall, miles down river from and above a tiny human fishing settlement. Centuries later, at the end of their game, they emerged from their cave to find a massive, opulent temple built around their cave. Around the temple had been built a district dedicated to those with draconic ancestry of some kind. The dragons, whose game had come out to be a ties, set about on a new game (one so vast and infinite that it couldn't possibly be won or lost). The dragons started playing the markets, becoming merchant kings, and possibly the two richest beings in the city (if not the richest organization as a whole). To this day, they rule as consuls of the district, appointing one of their followers to represent them in the city-wide council.

I agree with all of the suggestions concerning agriculture. Plantations on the outskirts, farms in demiplanes, planar import, and converted caves. The waterfront is also a huge source of seaweed, fish, and other water borne foods. Furthermore, the Grove Districts provide a steady flow of fruit to the city. A large portion of the agricultural labor force (unlike the skilled mechanists in the Steamworks) is made up of mindless undead.

I think that the city would either be narrower than the grand canyon or have massive pillars of stone breaking it up like the grand canyon.

On the topic of the tower, I think that its origin would likely have been that a wealthy business man found a massive deposit of mithral in a part of land that he had purchased. Rather than sell it to craftsmen, he used it as the building material for a massive tower. The tower's base is where the opening of the old mine is, and the tower itself extends up beyond the clouds. Indeed, because it converted the mine that its material came from into actual carved-stone, finished rooms, it extends nearly as far below the surface as it does above. The business man has actually had a great deal of success with the tower, renting out space to wealth individuals as apartments and to successful business as work places. The stone rooms below serves mostly as warehouses, stock rooms, and vaults. They are so heavily warded that it is considered suicidal to try to steal from them. The base of the tower rests in the Steamworks, and it technically governed by them. The building's owner is adamantly of the anti-union stance. It's rumoured that he may also be involved in Alliance works.

I like the idea of the Gulliver Heights, but I'll let someone else flesh those out.

[BRC]

I imagine that keeping the Grove District trimmed and navigable is one of the major jobs of the Streetbuilders. As neighboring districts probably don't like giant branches growing into their houses. And inside the Groves, people who can't walk on trees and arn't expert climbers still need to be able to get through. This probably attracts alot of attention from The Wild.

The Civil Servants can't be everywhere, so brawls between Wild members, and off-duty Streetbuilders are probably pretty common. Neither are really trained fighters for the most part, though the Streetbuilders are probably skilled enough at swinging heavy things around to hold their own.

Edit, Also, a District
The Commons
Other Names: Plainville, the "In Between", NorCo/SoCo
Government: Aristocratic Republic
Police force: The Watch
The Commons is the largest of the city's districts, and in fact spreads throughout the city. Filling in the pieces between the other districts. It's population is largely human, but there are enough non-humans there so they don't attract attention.

The District used to be ruled by a noble class, but after a few uprisings they adopted a more democratic stance. Elections are held, but only those with noble blood can hold major office. The District is actually split into two separate districts, the North Commons, and the South Commons, mainly for political reasons. However, North and South commons are politically and culturally similar enough that they don't need separate entries.



I figured we could use a nice "Normal" District, that the other districts stand out against.

Double Edit: How about "Ishka"

[jagadaishio]

I like Ishka. If nobody opposes it, I'll changed the thread title to include it.

[Renrik]

So, I have two district ideas that I don't want to flesh out right now, but I guess I could do one or the other a bit later. There's the pleasure district (Hedon?) and Gulliver's Heights. Maybe there would also be a kind of a smallsville of sorts, the antithesis of Gulliver's heights, or perhaps small humanoids would just live alongside medium-sized ones, and tiny ones would carve their houses more or less between and among human-sized ones.

I don't care much about the name, and shall not weigh in upon it.

I'm not so sure about the commons. It seems too... well, common. I mean, we could rather easily just make a number of different merchant and craft districts that people live in. But if we do have a common district, I'm not sure it should be called the commons. That name seems to me to mean more of an area which is collectively owned by the community.

I like the idea of the groves, though I still maintain there should be at least one of the groves that contains a massive sentient tree. I don't know why, but it's sticking on me. I also maintain, as before, that the tunnels under the groves should be overgrown with roots, mycelium, and myconids.

On the subject of of subterranean plants providing some food, I think we must remember that the most common such source in fantasy settings-mushrooms- would not work for that purpose. Mushrooms are not a plant, but a fungi, and are not autotrophic. Because they cannot produce, they cannot be the basis of the food chain as they are in so many campaigns. I suggest that there is another type of plant, one that is not photosynthetic, but is instead thermosynthetic or chemosynthetic. That is, they grow from heat or from certain chemicals, such as sulfur. Phosphorus already increases plant growth, and we've found evidence of purely chemosynthetic plants on earth. Now, these plants grow around noxious vents in the mines or, if thermosynthetic, around volcanic areas, the dragon lairs, and the steamworks. These plants then, along with the roots of the groves, form the host for the parasitic mycelium, which produces edible mushrooms, including huge groves the type of which are found in all good fantasy.

Of course, this, even combined with the groves, couldn't feed the whole city, so there still need to be the trade, the plantations around the canyon, and maybe the demiplanes.

The inclusion of mindless undead in the labor force of the Grove's orchards would probably anger sentients who would otherwise get those jobs.

[Strawman]

"Officially" The Rangers are enemies of The Wild. They control their actions much like The Order of the Bone Shield controls the actions of criminal Undead. Unofficially, many of The Rangers either do not mind, or secretly support The Wild.

Whenever someone is not involved with The Wild, and they want to spread nature irresponsibly, The Rangers crack down on them hard. They have less sympathy for nature-vigilante individuals because their methods are ineffective, and lead to the entire city hating The Grove.

The Commons will be a great place for DMs to put in their own ideas that do not fit anywhere else in the city. Maybe another alternate name; The City Plains.

As far as the city's name... Canyon Ishki, Canyon Iskia, Ishtown, Ishatown, The Canyon, City of the World... My favorites so far are "The City of Iskia" and "The City of Ishka." Although, just Ishka is good too.

[jagadaishio]

On the topic of mushrooms being unable to grow in barren underground environments, that is entirely true. The thing is, they wouldn't be barren. We have the largest city ever sitting on top of this place. Where do you think that the city's waste - both fecal and just regular trash - goes? Underground compost heaps, grove roots, and the fertilizer for the plantations.

As for the commons, they're not really an actual district. They're more the lack of a district. The occasional buffer space between real ones. I like the idea. I don't think that it would have any sort of a formal name, though.

As for sentient beings being angered by the taking of the jobs by the mindless undead, I must suggest that even if 50% (a hefty donation) of the HD limit of every sufficiently-high-level necromancer was devoted the cause of raising and harvesting crops, it still wouldn't be sufficient to do it all. Nowhere close, really. Rather, they would be around to do simple, repetitive, mindless (hur hur) tasks like walking down a row and depositing a seed every few feet. Sentients would be needed to do anything that requires even the slightest modicum of thought or improvisation. That's a lot of things.

I like the idea of the mediums and smalls pretty much coexisting. Large and huge would probably do the same, and so would tiny and smaller. Anything larger than huge would be uncommon enough to just have to try to make do with a custom house and the inability to fit through the doors or in the rooms of most common establishments. I like the name Gulliver's Heights, and the name Smallville. Of course, there would be people of all manner of sizes in every area, it's just that those would be specially tailored for quite large and quite small beings, respectively.

As for the enormous sentient tree, I would suggest that the tree be the person that gets chosen to represent the treants in the grove pretty much every single time. It could even have a massive building constructed across its branches that serves as the meeting ground for the elder council. I think that the myconid would live in the caves all around, but try whenever possible to live in the caves in the groves. They would very likely have various edible fungi as their primary source of income, much to the boon of the city at large.

[BRC]

The Commons are represented as a District, just because there is enough of it that the people arnt' going to let themselves go without some sort of government.
I think some sort of "Commons" is neccessary, someplace for a DM to have things happen in without being overloaded with detail. A sort of "baseline" for the rest of the city.

[Strawman]

Rather, they would be around to do simple, repetitive, mindless (hur hur) tasks like walking down a row and depositing a seed every few feet. Sentients would be needed to do anything that requires even the slightest modicum of thought or improvisation. That's a lot of things.

I like this idea. The non-sentient undead farmers would be like tools, or at best farm animals.

Does anyone have any estimations for how big the city is? I figure we should start trying to come up with base numbers for the following things:

How deep is the canyon?
How high does the city rise above the canyon's top?
How high is that one big tower?
How big is the lake and the lake developement?
How long and how wide is the canyon?
How far do tunnels in the canyon go (both sideways and depthwise)?
How big are the underground caves?
How tall is each layer of the city? This can vary from layer to layer, but a good min/max level should be determined.
What is the city's overall population?

I figure the size and population of extra-planar parts of the city can be determined once they are fleshed out more.

[Vadin]

I like this idea. The non-sentient undead farmers would be like tools, or at best farm animals.

Does anyone have any estimations for how big the city is? I figure we should start trying to come up with base numbers for the following things:

How deep is the canyon?
How high does the city rise above the canyon's top?
How high is that one big tower?
How big is the lake and the lake developement?
How long and how wide is the canyon?
How far do tunnels in the canyon go (both sideways and depthwise)?
How big are the underground caves?
How tall is each layer of the city? This can vary from layer to layer, but a good min/max level should be determined.
What is the city's overall population?

I figure the size and population of extra-planar parts of the city can be determined once they are fleshed out more.

Let's see...average humanoid, call it 6 feet tall. Roughly three feet of bracing below. About 4 feett minimum headspace on open streets. 13, maybe 12 minimum, double and add a little more to that for the wealthier people so they can have attics and maybe even basements...

Minimum height of a layer: 12 feet
Maximum heigh of a layer: 30 feet