Community Worldbuilding Project [Ishka: Urban and Urbane]

[jagadaishio]

Let's see...average humanoid, call it 6 feet tall. Roughly three feet of bracing below. About 4 feett minimum headspace on open streets. 13, maybe 12 minimum, double and add a little more to that for the wealthier people so they can have attics and maybe even basements...

Minimum height of a layer: 12 feet
Maximum heigh of a layer: 30 feet

Not counting Gulliver's Heights and Smallville.

[Renrik]

Right, I suppose growing mushrooms on the waste would work out, provided the waste is deposited within the mycelium-networked zones (which would be anywhere there is vegetation of any type)

I like the idea of the commons as kind of blank spaces/buffer zones that the DM can flesh out.

I'll also agree on the undead thing. As an agricultural worker, I can vouch that there are tasks that a mindless corpse would be less than capable of performing in my field (pun intended). I guess it would be the idea of undead laborers growing the food that would piss people off more than anything, but hey, most people don't actually want to work in agriculture. It's not fun- well, it is for me (at least in comparison to working indoors), but still.

Though, on labor disputes, I can still imagine workers getting angry about undead and constructs being used the same way real-life workers got angry at machinery during the industrial revolution. Any addition of capital to a venture without a corresponding increase in the consumption of raw materials and thus increased total production, tends to lead to decreased labor.

So, who wants to flesh out Gulliver's Heights and Smallville?

[BRC]

District Idea: The Academy
Other Names: Scholarville, Magetown. Wizland.
Government: Magocracy
Police Force: The Custodians.
The Academy is one of the two major magical districs in the city. Unlike the Mages District, which is home to many independent practitioners, the Academy is one institution. Though Magic is it's focus, the Academy studies all the sciences, and it's magical students are highly encouraged to study at least one other science. The lower levels are for Novices and Apprentices, containing living quarters, classrooms, recreation areas, library, workshops, ect. The layers above those are more of the same, but designed for older, more advanced students. This pattern continues until the very top layers, the "Searchers Circle", where the ultimate graduates spend the rest of their lives in study. Though experimental labs and research happens throughout the district, once you become a "Searcher", the implication is that you know so much that, anything else you might learn about your science, you will probably have to discover for yourself.

Most Students leave the Academy upon reaching adulthood, often moving to the Mages District, but some stay, pursing Knowledge for Knowledges sake, For these individuals, their education never ends. Most become assistants for a Researcher, though some become Professors, or find some other position in the Academy.
The Academy is patrolled by a force known as the Custodians. Their numbers are actually quite small, but if need be, they can have Academy Wizards prepare for combat and join their ranks, or summon creatures to assist them in combat.

[Renrik]

So let's see what we've got for districts so far:

The Primordium- Demiplane accessible from founding point of city, holds city council.
Lake District- Floating buildings and underwater structures.
Steamworks- Factories powered by elemental fonts, scattered
Grove- Wooded areas, scattered.
The Tower- A massive mithral tower
Gulliver's Heights- Giant's district
Smallville- Antithesis of Gulliver's Heights
The Academy- One of the magic districts
Mage's District- Another magic district, has gate to Astral Plane.
The Commons- Well, common.
Dragon Heritage Collective- Site of two dragon lairs and lots of dragonkin.
Customs and Immigration-Holds numerous portals.

Also, we have the idea that there are at least some buildings on huge bridges stretching over the canyon, that there are communities of myconids in the caves and abandoned mines, that these mines and caves form extensions of many of the districts. We also have some fields around the city.

[50cr4t3s]

1. Someone earlier referred to the Holy Hands of Saint Merkeil as a policing organization at odds with the Order of the Bone Shield. I proposed the Holy Hands an organization with a completely benevolent agenda. The are opposed to the Necropolis and the Undead who live there, but they do not police or fight the Undead. They're a health services organization, nothing more.

2. I don't think the commons should be referred to as a singular district. Rather, I think we should work with the idea of several Residence districts. Small districts with nothing more than dwellings, a small shop or two, and a tavern. These districts would have different names for each districts (i.e. Southern Hills, Shore View, etc.). I propose these boring names, because i have this image in my head of these districts as the boring suburbs.

3. I'm not crazy about the name "Ishka." Maybe I'm alone here, and if I am then I'll shut up. I just think we can do better.

4. I think this district would be pretty cool.

Location Name: Stadel
Other Names: Out Town, Lost Land, The Lost District
Government Type: King of Stadel
Police Force: Stadel Guard

Long ago, when the city was still fairly new, an entire district of the city vanished. Merchants travel to this district one morning and found it simply gone, with nothing left in its place. Mages and scholars spent months of sleepless nights pondering the fate of this district, but in the end, no answer was ever discovered. Many attempts to build on the site of the district were made, but no matter how stable the structure, or how powerful the magic, it all vanished in the blink of an eye. The city continued to grow, and the gap in the city was closed so as to prevent further loses.

Less then a decade ago, citizens were shocked to wake up one morning, and as mysteriously as it had appeared, the district had returned. Unfortunately, time had not stopped for this lost district, and their newest generation believed they were under attack when they found themselves suddenly in the center of a vast and never ending city. A small battle ensued, quickly put down by the forces of the city. It ended with the "King" of the district surrendered and swore loyalty to the City Council.

Little is known about what happened to the district. But tales from it's inhabitants described growing up with their district surrounded by a dark and terrible void from which no one had every returned. Their ancestors had apparently survived only by the wit and cunning of their most noble family, the Stadel. Their ancestors had renamed their home in honor of these heroes. They even went so far as to make the Stadel family the monarchs of there small land.

The inhabitants are distrustful of the rest of the city, and will rarely speak with outsiders. They keep to themselves and have little to do with any of the cities organizations (even the Alliance).

[Owrtho]

I'd say the layers would likely average about 2 stories tall myself (with some variation). Also in one of the early posts about how the layers formed I'd said the first was third story additions to the buildings.

However, what we should do (and is likely more important than actual height of the canyon) is determine the number of layers.
Also, I'd note that we need to figure out what is used for lighting in the lower layers. After all, after about the first 2 or 3 layers sunlight will likely be rather rare. I'd suggest magic lighting myself. Possibly designed so most turn off at night (leaving only a few so that its not totally dark and people can still get around). Might be somewhat different in some districts though.

Edit: Hmm, 5 people nija'd me. Also I'd point out that individual districts are not they're own layers. They're just sections of layers (usually occupying a few layers vertically).

Owrtho

[BRC]

1. Someone earlier referred to the Holy Hands of Saint Merkeil as a policing organization at odds with the Order of the Bone Shield. I proposed the Holy Hands an organization with a completely benevolent agenda. The are opposed to the Necropolis and the Undead who live there, but they do not police or fight the Undead. They're a health services organization, nothing more.

I thought the Holy Hands were the police force for the Temple district.
How about this, The Holy Hands are, as described above, a group of clerics who provide healing services and run hospitals. Their more militant counterparts are the Holy Swords, who police the temple district, guard the Holy Hands, and don't get along well with the Bone Knights. Also, because of their association with the Holy Hands, many people consider them part of the same organization, just with two different names. So some of the hostility the Holy Swords (Some of whom are rather Knight Templaresque, and may stray from their "Bodyguard and Police work" duties) generates get's taken out on the Holy Hands. L

[Owrtho]

Also, we have the idea that there are at least some buildings on huge bridges stretching over the canyon

Isn't almost everything built on pathways stretching across the canyon? I thought the idea we were going with was that each layer had been built across the entire canyon each time the mines went up a new level. Also they wouldn't be much of bridges it seems.

Owrtho

[Renrik]

In the vein of using fungus to solve our problems, I'd like to suggest bioluminescent molds in the lower layers as a partial solution, along with the magical light.

I suggest 5-8 layers, with maybe one or two sublayers, for a great big ridiculous city, but most of the districts span more than one layer, and there is more sunlight directly hitting the Lake district because there's a thinning out of buildings around there.

Now, assuming this canyon was carved by a river, I can only assume that this river is now filthy as all hell, and the lake must be upstream of the rest of the city. I think areas near portals to the water elemental plane might have a higher property value for clean water.

[Owrtho]

Huh, I would suggest 20 to 40 layers myself. Would give it more of an epic city adventuring type feel.

Owrtho

[50cr4t3s]

I thought the Holy Hands were the police force for the Temple district.
How about this, The Holy Hands are, as described above, a group of clerics who provide healing services and run hospitals. Their more militant counterparts are the Holy Swords, who police the temple district, guard the Holy Hands, and don't get along well with the Bone Knights. Also, because of their association with the Holy Hands, many people consider them part of the same organization, just with two different names. So some of the hostility the Holy Swords (Some of whom are rather Knight Templaresque, and may stray from their "Bodyguard and Police work" duties) generates get's taken out on the Holy Hands. L

I like this idea.

as for how the city was built upward in the canyon. We actually hadn't reach a consensus on how this was done. We've go it narrowed down to two basic ideas though.

1. Once the mines up the wall reached about three stories, businesses started building multiple story establishments to cater to the workers in the mines.

2. The mines up the wall progress well past three stories without issue, and once residences and business were placed on either of the canyon walls, bridges were built over the city below to allow people to cross the canyon quickly.

In either of these scenarios, the end result was the same. Standardized layers of the city were eventually erected as the mines in the canyon walls grew higher and higher till the city spilled over onto the cliffs over the canyon.

This is interesting in that we actually needn't decide. In either of these scenarios, the lowest parts of the city would eventually have had to have been rebuilt in order to support the immense weight of the layers above them. The manner in which the city rose up the canyon, could actually be a focus of historical debate amongst the cities scholars.

[jagadaishio]

Isn't almost everything built on pathways stretching across the canyon? I thought the idea we were going with was that each layer had been built across the entire canyon each time the mines went up a new level. Also they wouldn't be much of bridges it seems.

Owrtho

I was under that distinct impression as well. The only real difference between on a bridge and not on a bridge is that some buildings are built close enough to the edges that they can be anchored right to the rock walls. Most buildings, though, are suspended somewhere in the middle.

Name: The Vault
Other Names: Prison, The Pokey, The Clink, The Hole
Government Type: The Warden. The Warden, an supposedly immortal construct of vast intellect and magical prowess, is the sole governor of the Vault. It rules with a merciless iron fist, and communicates remotely with the city's council instead of going in person as the district's representative.
Police Force: The Guard. The Guard is made up mostly of sentient and mindless constructs, animated by the Warden to police the Vault. They are absolutely loyal to the warden, and follow its edicts without question.

With all of the people in the city, the criminals need to go somewhere. When a suspected criminal is arrested, they're put to trial. If convicted, they are either fined, given some sort of probationary punishment, or sent to serve a certain term in the Vault. There is no death sentence. The vault is a massive extradimensional space constructed by the Academy, staffed by an immortal workforce of constructed. Beings there are kept in solitary confinement in sections of the vault based on how much of a potential threat they could be to others.

People serving short sentences for petty crimes are allowed a lot more time out of their cells. People serving life sentences rarely see anything other than the blank face of a construct. Rumours about that sinister acts are performed on lifers, using them for magical and surgical experimentation, among other things. These rumours are unsubstantiated, but whether that's because lifers are in for life or because they're false is unknown.

[Strawman]

Let's see...average humanoid, call it 6 feet tall. Roughly three feet of bracing below. About 4 feett minimum headspace on open streets. 13, maybe 12 minimum, double and add a little more to that for the wealthier people so they can have attics and maybe even basements...

Minimum height of a layer: 12 feet
Maximum heigh of a layer: 30 feet

There might have to be some exceptions for factories and things of that nature. I imagine the places that power the city will be huge. However, those could all be inside tunnels and caves, and not actually part of the layers of the city. It might be interesting to have a few layers reserved for and policed by tiny species. Those layers would be rare, and between 1 and 3 feet tall.

Also, the population of the city has been described as at least that of a small nation. Think about it in terms of a city in our world with skyscrapers. 20 layers (or a mix of skyscrapers and multiple story buildings) across 450 square miles (rougly the size of New York City) would have around 8.5 million inhabitents (if they were all human anyway). Do we want the population to be more than that and if so, should there be more layers, more square miles, or both?

[50cr4t3s]

I think that we're thinking about the size of this city in the wrong way. This city is MASSIVE. Parts of it are extra-dimensional in nature, it extends deep into the earth beneath it, it extends across a vast stretch of land beyond the canyon, its towers pierce the highest clouds, and it transcends the very planes.

A person could spend many, many lifetimes and never see half the city. Many of the people have probably never left their own districts.

The city is huge beyond the size of any city in the DnD universe and in the real world as well

[jagadaishio]

I agree. This city would be larger than the Tokyo/Yokahama area, LA, London, New York, Mexico City, and Moscow all put together. This would be the city to end all cities.

[Crafty Cultist]

idea: the chambers
other names: exile's cavern, the hole
government: anarchy
police force: the sentinels
the chambers are a group of mined out tunnels and caverns where dangerous criminals are sent. The sentinels make sure no-one leaves but other than that, no law exists. the chambers are an unpleasant subject that are rarely talked about among the city's other inhabitants.
what goes on there is unknown, but its no doubt unpleasant for most involved. the sentinels are lead by commander Tergan, a dwarven warrior of no small skill who has foiled every escape attempt in the last three decades. the council representative leutenant brigg is often requesting more funds for their efforts

btw: the chambers are warded against extadimensional travel

[BRC]

I was under that distinct impression as well. The only real difference between on a bridge and not on a bridge is that some buildings are built close enough to the edges that they can be anchored right to the rock walls. Most buildings, though, are suspended somewhere in the middle.

Name: The Vault
Other Names: Prison, The Pokey, The Clink, The Hole
Government Type: The Warden. The Warden, an supposedly immortal construct of vast intellect and magical prowess, is the sole governor of the Vault. It rules with a merciless iron fist, and communicates remotely with the city's council instead of going in person as the district's representative.
Police Force: The Guard. The Guard is made up mostly of sentient and mindless constructs, animated by the Warden to police the Vault. They are absolutely loyal to the warden, and follow its edicts without question.

With all of the people in the city, the criminals need to go somewhere. When a suspected criminal is arrested, they're put to trial. If convicted, they are either fined, given some sort of probationary punishment, or sent to serve a certain term in the Vault. There is no death sentence. The vault is a massive extradimensional space constructed by the Academy, staffed by an immortal workforce of constructed. Beings there are kept in solitary confinement in sections of the vault based on how much of a potential threat they could be to others.

People serving short sentences for petty crimes are allowed a lot more time out of their cells. People serving life sentences rarely see anything other than the blank face of a construct. Rumours about that sinister acts are performed on lifers, using them for magical and surgical experimentation, among other things. These rumours are unsubstantiated, but whether that's because lifers are in for life or because they're false is unknown.

It's a nice idea, but I don't think it should be the only place Criminals are sent. I imagine petty crimes are kept local, as the standard Bars and Lock are enough to handle most criminals. I don't think John Q Pickpocket is worth the effort it would take to imprison him in the Vault.


Which isn't to say the Vault isn't used. Big time criminals, and pretty much any criminal picked up by M.I. (which are the same thing. M.I. dosn't bother with small timers) do get sent there.

Also, the penalty for crimes depends on which district has jurisdiction. Some districts do have the death penalty, others do not. The Municipal Investigators, who gain jurisdiction over major criminals or criminals that try to flee between districts, does not have the Death Penalty however, so they send all their guilty criminals to the vault.

[jagadaishio]

It's a nice idea, but I don't think it should be the only place Criminals are sent. I imagine petty crimes are kept local, as the standard Bars and Lock are enough to handle most criminals. I don't think John Q Pickpocket is worth the effort it would take to imprison him in the Vault.


Which isn't to say the Vault isn't used. Big time criminals, and pretty much any criminal picked up by M.I. (which are the same thing. M.I. dosn't bother with small timers) do get sent there.

Also, the penalty for crimes depends on which district has jurisdiction. Some districts do have the death penalty, others do not. The Municipal Investigators, who gain jurisdiction over major criminals or criminals that try to flee between districts, does not have the Death Penalty however, so they send all their guilty criminals to the vault.

I did mention that the petty criminals are just let go. Most people who do get sent to the vault are only serving five to ten. It is a jail megaplex, and before their trials people aren't sent to the vault, they're held locally. The Vault is only for convicted criminals sentenced to a moderate or major term of stay. That's still tons of people, of course.

[BRC]

I did mention that the petty criminals are just let go. Most people who do get sent to the vault are only serving five to ten. It is a jail megaplex, and before their trials people aren't sent to the vault, they're held locally. The Vault is only for convicted criminals sentenced to a moderate or major term of stay. That's still tons of people, of course.

Maybe the Vault should also house the headquarters for M.I. It's well-protected, and if the investigators need to ask somebody they caught some questions, hey, they're right there.

[Crafty Cultist]

QUOTE]Name: The Vault
Other Names: Prison, The Pokey, The Clink, The Hole
Government Type: The Warden. The Warden, an supposedly immortal construct of vast intellect and magical prowess, is the sole governor of the Vault. It rules with a merciless iron fist, and communicates remotely with the city's council instead of going in person as the district's representative.
Police Force: The Guard. The Guard is made up mostly of sentient and mindless constructs, animated by the Warden to police the Vault. They are absolutely loyal to the warden, and follow its edicts without question.
[/QUOTE]

sorry, i didn't notice their already was a prison district

I guess i'm thinking of a section without laws that no-one has the manpower(or has been bothered) to get under control where the worst of the worst gather

[Strawman]

I've sketched (badly) a couple very very basic images of the city. These are just what the city might be, and I figure that they could be useful in discussing what we all want the city to look like. Considering how big the city will be, you can just ignore the distances drawn on the pictures. Feel free to be critical of my art skill as well.

Of course, the real city would have way more buildings, and they would be smaller relative to the city. Very basic drawing.

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[jagadaishio]

I like the idea of a lawless ruined area, but I don't think that they would just deposit people there.

[Renrik]

I think the lower tunnels and maybe some poorer districts could pretty much fit the bill of a cut-throat society.

Which wouldn't technically be anarchistic, or lawless, by the definition of what law and anarchism is, but whatever.

I don't think we would need to flesh out the area too much except for specific people or establishments.

[50cr4t3s]

New Location (this location was mentioned before, but no one wanted to flesh it out, so I'll toss out some ideas here)

Name: Hedon
Other Names: The Pleasure District, The Flesh Market
Government Type: Madam and Master (independently expensive)
Police Forces: The police forces of this district have no actual name. Violators of the law in Hedon are captured and sold into the flesh trade until the debt of their offenses has been paid.

Hedon is a district devoted entirely to indulgences of the flesh. It is located in a cave below the city, with a wide entrance revealing a spiral expanse that continues deep into the earth. At the entrance to the District the shops include hundreds brothels catering to nearly every species. As people continue down the spiral, the cave contains shops catering to thousands of tastes that many might find "devient." As the districts continues down the spiral one begins to see shops catering to tastes viewed by all but the most depraved and vile individuals to be absolutely disgusting. Hedon is publicly denounced by nearly every Councilmen, yet despite this, Hedon is one of the greatest economic forces in the entire city.

[Strawman]

I like the Hedon district.

Will the city's laws allow slavery? And if so, what makes a person inelligable to be made into a slave? I imagine some districts will be against all slavery, and will simply not stand for any kidnapping off their population by slavers from other districts.

A couple of districts-

Name: The Art Community
Other Names: Bardnest, pretension-ville, party district.
Government Type: Oligarchy made of rich art patrons.
Police Forces: The Watch (if they have time). Law enforcement is poor in this district.

The Art Community mainly houses bards and bardic schools. There are also less spectacular artists there, and the patrons who commission their art. This is a small community with little wealth outside the patrons. However, much of the city’s culture and local color comes from this district. People will often come to this district for festivals, parties, and plays.

Name: The Monastery
Other Names: The district where time has stopped, purity-town, the awful lawful.
Government Type: The head abbot/abbess both rules this district and reports to the council.
Police Forces: Individual residents take care of themselves.

The Monastery is where monks, paladins, and other quiet lawful types go to meditate. Very little goes on here, except for the training of monks. It is the quietest part of the city, and it has the lowest crime rate. People may come here for quiet, for spiritual advice, or to convince one of the monks or paladins to help them with some good and lawful quest. The Monastery is located in the cave farthest from the city. The tunnel connecting the cave and the city is long and dark. This district is poor, mostly by choice of its residents.

[BRC]

A Note: some of these districts sound more like places that happen to be part of other districts. Like the Monestary mentioned above could probably be mixed in with the Temple District. The Academy might as well be merged with the Mages district.

[Renrik]

The art community should be a former Steamworks workers neighborhood that got gentrified. Ha. Pretensionville.

I don't think the monastery would be a district i its own right, or send a representative to the council, but it wouldn't be part of the temple district. Maybe it's near the seedier part of the tunnels. That could make things interesting.

[jagadaishio]

Name: The Mithral Heights
Other Names: Wingtown, The Clouds, Snob Heights, The Skydocks
Government Type: The Highest. Those who can afford it and live in the Heights pay their way onto a small committee which charges an exorbitant entrance fee. One of them is then chosen (they really just bribe bribe their way) into the great position of the Highest, who has the greatest authority over the Falcons and the rest of the committee.
Police Forces: The Falcons. The Falcons are a private paramilitary force funded by the richest of the rich people who live in the Heights. They're all equipped with the best of magical equipment and standard-issue flying devices and extremely finely crafted bows.

The Mithral Heights is the name of the district made up of the airship skydocks, floating platforms, and housing the surrounds the Tower, suspended in mid air. This district's population is largely made up of the richest of the rich, airmen, and aerial species. As such, the district ranges from very rich to very poor. The rich ones are the only ones with actual power, though, so that hardly matters as far as the rest of the city is concerned.

[jagadaishio]

I like the Hedon district.

Will the city's laws allow slavery? And if so, what makes a person inelligable to be made into a slave? I imagine some districts will be against all slavery, and will simply not stand for any kidnapping off their population by slavers from other districts.

A couple of districts-

Name: The Art Community
Other Names: Bardnest, pretension-ville, party district.
Government Type: Oligarchy made of rich art patrons.
Police Forces: The Watch (if they have time). Law enforcement is poor in this district.

The Art Community mainly houses bards and bardic schools. There are also less spectacular artists there, and the patrons who commission their art. This is a small community with little wealth outside the patrons. However, much of the city’s culture and local color comes from this district. People will often come to this district for festivals, parties, and plays.

Name: The Monastery
Other Names: The district where time has stopped, purity-town, the awful lawful.
Government Type: The head abbot/abbess both rules this district and reports to the council.
Police Forces: Individual residents take care of themselves.

The Monastery is where monks, paladins, and other quiet lawful types go to meditate. Very little goes on here, except for the training of monks. It is the quietest part of the city, and it has the lowest crime rate. People may come here for quiet, for spiritual advice, or to convince one of the monks or paladins to help them with some good and lawful quest. The Monastery is located in the cave farthest from the city. The tunnel connecting the cave and the city is long and dark. This district is poor, mostly by choice of its residents.

The Monastery is certainly just part of the Temple District and not a district in its own right. That Art District, on the other hand, is probably not its own district. Rather, it's more likely part of one of the market districts - a small neighbourhood within it.

[Renrik]

God, I want to play in this city.