You want to build a sword out of WHAT!

[BRC]

So, my player's fought and defeated some ghouls, and being the resourceful types they were, one of them declared "I'm taking their teeth!". He now wants to build a sword out of them.
Now, I could say "Upon being separated from the Ghoul, the teeth become too brittle to make an effective weapon", or I say "Okay, now you have a masterwork longsword that just happens to be made out of Ghoul Teeth". But I don't really like those ideas (In fact, I already said I would let him not only give the sword, but give it some sort of special ability). Sounds good, except that I now have no idea what to do with said sword.
The character's are 4th level, and the Sword (or more accurately, somebody making the Sword) is going to be this character's treasure for an upcoming adventure.
So now I need ideas, the one I have right now is that if a Critical Hit is made with the sword, it casts Ghoul Touch. However, since I can't plug "Proc's on a critical hit" into the customizing magic items table, it's hard to tell if this is balanced.

So...Advice please?

[Yukitsu]

There are some weapons with serrated edges made of teeth. They do damage in a manner similar to a bite, and as such, I'd change the sword to one that does bludgeoning/piercing/slashing, with no other effects.

They aren't as good vs. armour as a metal sword, or armoured people in general though, so I'd consider giving it a -2 to hit penalty vs. anyone wearing armour.

[Exarch]

I don't even know how you'd begin to make a sword out of teeth. It boggles my mind, since teeth can't be forged, they're not exactly sharp enough for a blade, and how would you keep them together?

Now, if he wanted to use the bones as a crossguard and a hollowed femur for the hilt, then wrapped in hilt in ghoulskin...I can see that.

If he wants to stick with the teeth, maybe have him take a hammer? Have the teeth be part of the striking head.

Edit: As far as balance goes and keeping all things equal, see what a Wand of Ghoul Touch is. IMO, it shouldn't be that unbalanced since it's only on crit. Going to be a +1 weapon too?

[Duke of URL]

Sounds likely to be unbalanced. Special abilities on a crit are typically at least +2 enhancements (making the sword a minimum +3 item), and the effects are pretty severe. The good news is that it should allow for a save -- I can't find a formula for calculating that, but DC 14 seems pretty standard.

[BRC]

I don't even know how you'd begin to make a sword out of teeth. It boggles my mind, since teeth can't be forged, they're not exactly sharp enough for a blade, and how would you keep them together?

Now, if he wanted to use the bones as a crossguard and a hollowed femur for the hilt, then wrapped in hilt in ghoulskin...I can see that.

If he wants to stick with the teeth, maybe have him take a hammer? Have the teeth be part of the striking head.

I imagine the sword looking something like this
http://www.precolumbianweapons.com/images/aztec.14.jpg
The actual structure of the blade is made of something different, but instead of a continuous blade you have the teeth forming a serrated edge.

[Exarch]

Sounds likely to be unbalanced. Special abilities on a crit are typically at least +2 enhancements (making the sword a minimum +3 item), and the effects are pretty severe. The good news is that it should allow for a save -- I can't find a formula for calculating that, but DC 14 seems pretty standard.

Thing about that, like the Flaming Burst and other Burst enhancements is that they retain the +1d6 element bonus damage (like Flaming) on top of giving an additional bonus.

[FoE]

I thought it was the ghoul's claws, not its teeth, that transmitted the paralyzing venom.

[BRC]

I thought it was the ghoul's claws, not its teeth, that transmitted the paralyzing venom.

Seeing as the Paralysis effect occurs on both a Ghoul's Claw and Bite attacks, it appears to be both.

[Chrono22]

I can see someone making a sword out of a single tooth... but normal, ghoul sized teeth? Not likely.

[Yakk]

+0 unholy longsword?
+0 viscious longsword?
+0 ghost touch longsword?
+0 necrotic touch longsword? (+1d4 negative energy damage on a hit)

[Duke of URL]

Thing about that, like the Flaming Burst and other Burst enhancements is that they retain the +1d6 element bonus damage (like Flaming) on top of giving an additional bonus.

Yeah, but paralysis kind of really, really sucks as compared to some extra dice of damage. Save-or-die on a crit has to be at least a +2, even with a low DC. Disruption is a +2, and it only works on undead -- paralysis against humanoids should be considered at least as expensive.

[FoE]

Wouldn't a weapon using ghoul parts be useless, as the ghoul is no longer generating its paralyzing poison? I mean, a cobra's fang doesn't remain poisonous forever after it's been taken from a cobra.

Unless you've ruled that it's an inherent magical ability, like a medusa's head that continues to petrify people after it's been severed from the body, I'd just say the ghoul part weapons are ineffective.

This isn't like making armour of dragon scales, after all.

[BRC]

I can see someone making a sword out of a single tooth... but normal, ghoul sized teeth? Not likely.

Already been over the structure of the Sword (Teeth held between two plates, sticking out to form a serrated edge, kind of like This). And he's got a lot of teeth (From multiple Ghouls).

How about this, instead of a Ghoul touch spell, I have the sword replicate the Paralysis effect of an actual ghoul, so it's 1d4+1 rounds (instead of Ghoul Touch's 1d6+2), and there is no Sickening cloud.


@^ A wizard did it. The expensive part in this case is not the physical forging of the Sword itself (That's relatively cheap), but getting a spellcaster (In this case a Witch Doctor they are doing a favor for) to enchant the sword so the Teeth retain their paralytic properties.

[Tyndmyr]

Seeing as the Paralysis effect occurs on both a Ghoul's Claw and Bite attacks, it appears to be both.

Better not fail those craft checks.

[Thurbane]

I don't even know how you'd begin to make a sword out of teeth. It boggles my mind, since teeth can't be forged, they're not exactly sharp enough for a blade, and how would you keep them together?

I'm picturing something like this (though I don't know you'd exactly call it a sword):

[arguskos]

....and everyone forgets that MAGIC can fix all the issues with creating it. Making the damn thing isn't even vaguely relevant. What IS relevant is what it does.

BRC, I'd suggest you make the weapon a +1 consumptive longsword that can cast Ghoul Touch 1/day through the weapon like a duskblade's arcane channel ability. It has the ghoulish feel, does some negative energy damage, and really would make him feel like he's wielding a ghoul's essence.

[Mr.Bookworm]

I thought it was the ghoul's claws, not its teeth, that transmitted the paralyzing venom.

Those hit by a ghoul’s bite or claw attack must succeed on a DC 12 Fortitude save or be paralyzed for 1d4+1 rounds. Elves have immunity to this paralysis. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Nooope.

I imagine the sword looking something like this
http://www.precolumbianweapons.com/images/aztec.14.jpg
The actual structure of the blade is made of something different, but instead of a continuous blade you have the teeth forming a serrated edge.

If I remember my Aztec weapons right (admittedly a lot of my experience comes from reading the Scion books so I may not be right), they used those things more like clubs with sharp bits on them. For another thing, it's pretty impractical to build a combat blade with a serrated edge. Go stab a slice of meat with a serrated knife, and you'll see what I mean. It's hard to get out, and serrated edges are designed with sawing in mind, which is not exactly a practical combat technique. So anyway.

Also, is it a Magickal Sworde?

If not, I'd say a masterwork weapon is more than fair enough. Maybe let it spread Ghoul Fever? Not much use, but it could come in handy.

If so, allowing it to activate Ghoul's Touch on a critical hit (or maybe 1/day on a normal hit) sounds good.

Either way, I'd give him a bonus to Intimidate and a penalty to Diplomacy when he has the thing out.

[sonofzeal]

See, for the visual, I'd go for something more like....

Spoiler

Show

.....yeah.

[LibraryOgre]

I'd say pick an appropriate +1 enchantment. Maybe Bane? Make them especially nasty to something?

[AslanCross]

I'd say pick an appropriate +1 enchantment. Maybe Bane? Make them especially nasty to something?

I'd go with this. Fleshgrinding comes to mind, but that's +2.

[Schylerwalker]

Instead of actually using the fangs/claws to make some sort of weird, not terribly functional weapon, I'm imagining grinding the teeth/claws into powder and then mixing them into the metal during the forging process.

Perhaps Ghoul Touch once per day would be acceptable. Or maybe it does extra damage to ghouls? Functions as an evil weapon for the purpose of overcoming DR? Something simple but cool. Maybe it gives you a bonus on saves against paralysis and stench? Or, maybe, it gives those it hits a penalty against those very things (Will negates, of course).

[Kulture]

Just make it a physical version of blade of fear and pain, doing 1D6 damage and causing a fear effect, or in this case a paralysis effect, if you so wish.
The DC will be woefully low anyway, and the damage is pretty naff too.
It all ballances out quite nicely.
Fits fluff too, since the Blade of fear and pain is a blade comprised of disembodied gnashing teeth around a magically created, pseudo-biological base.

[Sleepingbear]

If you want it to have some sort of negative energy effect from being a weapon made from undead parts, might I suggest masterwork weapon + touch of Fatigue on a critical?

Afterall, I imagine the ghoul's abilities to paralyze have been diluted somewhat with the removal of the actual ghoul.

In any case, this is a fairly unique effect that isn't all that powerful. Unless you consider a cantrip on crits to be game breaking.

And it allows for later enchantments. Maybe add a +1D6 to powers such as 'unholy'.

[Myrmex]

Even if the ghoul teeth sword isn't going to be magical, why is everyone's immediate reaction "no can't have!"?

It's not like anyone here has ever handled ghoul teeth or has any idea how they work. They can bite through magical full plate, so I assume they're tougher and less brittle than the teeth in your mouth.

I say go for it. I'd make it MW with a +1 enhancement bonus to damage & attack and have it do piercing & slashing damage.

[Mongoose87]

You could make it take a while to finish, so that a fitting enchantment doesn't make it overpowered.

[Lysander]

I'm picturing something like this (though I don't know you'd exactly call it a sword):

Here's one possibility, a blade that's sharp on one side and covered in jagged teeth on the other. Striking with the sharp side deals slashing damage, striking with the teeth-covered side does piercing and bludgeoning. The sharp side would have slightly higher accuracy, the bludgeoning side could have a special ability.

What if the sword casts Touch of Fatigue on any target (allowing the usual fortitude save) any time it deals damage with the piercing/bludgeoning side? On a critical failure it could cast Ghoul Touch instead.

[BRC]

Okay, so currently I'm either thinking one of two things
1) The Teeth retain their potency, but only enough to take effect on especially devastating hits, paralyzes for 1d4+1 rounds on a Critical (Allows fort save).
OR
2) The potency of the Teeth is diluted, rather than paralyzing foes, merely inhibits muscle activity. casts Touch of Fatigue on every hit.
Edit: This second one has the benefit of actually being within a reasonable value for the amount of treasure they could be expected to gain in an adventure, however it only does so by having an effective CL of one, meaning the fatigue effect would be negated by a DC10 save And only last one round.

[Zeful]

Instead of actually using the fangs/claws to make some sort of weird, not terribly functional weapon, I'm imagining grinding the teeth/claws into powder and then mixing them into the metal during the forging process.

I second this idea. Making a sword out of teeth, magic or no, isn't practical. Using the Ghoul teeth as a special regent for the process works.

Though, with the infusion of undead bone in the sword I'd have it register as evil on detect evil equal to the average HD of Ghouls used, in addition to it's normal effects.

Also, I wish to encourage this player into doing this more often, it sounds awesome.

[Myrmex]

Okay, so currently I'm either thinking one of two things
1) The Teeth retain their potency, but only enough to take effect on especially devastating hits, paralyzes for 1d4+1 rounds on a Critical (Allows fort save).
OR
2) The potency of the Teeth is diluted, rather than paralyzing foes, merely inhibits muscle activity. casts Touch of Fatigue on every hit.
Edit: This second one has the benefit of actually being within a reasonable value for the amount of treasure they could be expected to gain in an adventure, however it only does so by having an effective CL of one, meaning the fatigue effect would be negated by a DC10 save And only last one round.

I'm not sure how effective of abilities those are. I know I definitely wouldn't want to give up future loot to get two crappy effects that are going to rarely work.

[edit]
Actually #2 is pretty good, since it's not just criticals.

[Shademan]

Okay, so currently I'm either thinking one of two things
1) The Teeth retain their potency, but only enough to take effect on especially devastating hits, paralyzes for 1d4+1 rounds on a Critical (Allows fort save).

like this one. also: I think it is perfectly fine to make a sword of ghoul theeth because you're the dm, and whatever you say goes. It is strange, unrealistic and would not be able to penetrate armour. but guess what guys, ghouls arn't real! (at least thats what my doctor tells me) and its a fantasy game! We can do whatever we want!