ABR Discussion Thread XXXI - The Gift of Fish

[Fay Graydon]

"First you live, then you die, then you undie and then you die again"
Too bad, I liked Nilmerg a lot

Awww Well you can like Midnight the cat now instead

[Mina Kobold]

Awww Well you can like Midnight the cat now instead

It's official, Fayte is the new cat-guy girl guy person and Gremlin is the new wacky god guy

Though, it would be nice to have Nilmerg still be around, he was fun

Perhaps a ghost Nilmerg NPC?

[Fay Graydon]

It's official, Fayte is the new cat-guy girl guy person and Gremlin is the new wacky god guy

Well Midnights only a cat, not an Anthropomorphic cat

[Mina Kobold]

Well Midnights only a cat, not an Anthropomorphic cat

Cat girl as in 'crazy catlady' not as in catgirl

Otherwise I¨'d have said "Midnight is the new catgirl"

[Mad Mask]

I knew you would come back one day, Gremlin.

Um, okay.
So I'm thinking about killing off Nilmerg. I really like him as a character, but I'm sick of people mixing up the eye thing, and his backstory sucks. :/
Any ideas on how to kill him without making him seem like a discarded rag doll?

While you may have already done the comic where you kill Nilmerg (it wasn't especially clear though), I don't agree with just dropping a bridge on him. You could just have him remain as Lying's assistant, and kill him when it becomes dramatic (as in, the UNA boards the Citadel or something like that). Now it just seems random and out of place.

I also suggest you take time to recuperate your comic skills. For starters, use inkscape, draw backgrounds, and make the action clearer. Trazoi's guide could be of some help here.

[Nameless]

defribillators are actually for irregular heartbeats, not for stopped hearts

I had a heart once.

Good times.

[Lyinginbedmon]

I had a heart once.

Good times.

My bloodstream is full of free-floating metallic shrapnel. Considering this makes my ears buzz in an EM field, I'm not particularly keen on the idea of defibrilation across the heart or of MRI

[The Gremlin]

I knew you would come back one day, Gremlin.



While you may have already done the comic where you kill Nilmerg (it wasn't especially clear though), I don't agree with just dropping a bridge on him. You could just have him remain as Lying's assistant, and kill him when it becomes dramatic (as in, the UNA boards the Citadel or something like that). Now it just seems random and out of place.

I also suggest you take time to recuperate your comic skills. For starters, use inkscape, draw backgrounds, and make the action clearer. Trazoi's guide could be of some help here.

Inkscape isn't an option. I think it;'s something to do with the netbook. When I maximize the window, it freezes up, and when I leave the window reduced I can't access the bottom one. I'd love to use Inkscape, but it just isn't an option.
As for the background thing, I just forgot. Happens often.

The reason I chose to knock off Nilmerg is mainly because there are so many continuity errors where people forget some part or another of his eye gear. Can't say I blame them, it was switched around a lot.

I think I'll still keep Nilmerg, on second thought, as long as people either draw his right eye blind or include the eyepatch. I'll also keep Stalker, and set all the annoying characters I created on his target list.
My last comic is not non-canon. Nilmerg just wasn't instantly killed.

The new comic is kind of underwhelming, but it took about five minutes to make, so it's good for now.

EDIT: So out of curiosity, did a rule against bantering come up or something? The thread's oddly slow.

[Nameless]

My bloodstream is full of free-floating metallic shrapnel. Considering this makes my ears buzz in an EM field, I'm not particularly keen on the idea of defibrilation across the heart or of MRI

Awwww. ._.

[Mina Kobold]

My bloodstream is full of free-floating metallic shrapnel. Considering this makes my ears buzz in an EM field, I'm not particularly keen on the idea of defibrilation across the heart or of MRI

You can't be serious, can you?

EDIT: So out of curiosity, did a rule against bantering come up or something? The thread's oddly slow.

No, but since you left we've had nothing to talk about

[The Gremlin]

You can't be serious, can you?



No, but since you left we've had nothing to talk about

Great. Time to say something controversial.

[Fay Graydon]

Great. Time to say something controversial.

Human... the other red meat

[Khaeta]

CENSORED FOR CONTROVERSY

...and pasta!

*Iz temporarily un-deadened due to boredom*

[Lyinginbedmon]

You can't be serious, can you?

Mostly it's the MRI that worries me, I've been electrocuted enough in my lifetime to be reasonably certain that won't do me much greater harm than to most folk.

But yes, wholly serious. Not a loud buzz mind you, but enough for me to notice when it stops...like when electricians killed the house power recently...

[The Gremlin]

Mostly it's the MRI that worries me, I've been electrocuted enough in my lifetime to be reasonably certain that won't do me much greater harm than to most folk.

But yes, wholly serious. Not a loud buzz mind you, but enough for me to notice when it stops...like when electricians killed the house power recently...

Hmm? I came in in the middle of something, I take it.

[Kumo]

My bloodstream is full of free-floating metallic shrapnel. Considering this makes my ears buzz in an EM field, I'm not particularly keen on the idea of defibrilation across the heart or of MRI

Wouldn't that shred up your blood vessels, veins and heart, causing you to die a slow painful death? Or mess up your kidneys? Or (at best) be dissolved in your blood because of how small they'd have to be to not shred up your veins and arteries?

[Mad Mask]

Your comics are confusing, Gremlin. You can't just "forget" to include a background, and now your comic is nothing but blank panels and dialog! I know we're not supposed to judge people on artistic merit, but when there's no art at all...

And the story itself make very little sense. Why is "Stalker" attacking? Why does Gremlin explode and then we find out he's only unconscious? Why are you including D&D references? Why is Gremlin breaking the fourth wall? What's happening?

[The Gremlin]

Your comics are confusing, Gremlin. You can't just "forget" to include a background, and now your comic is nothing but blank panels and dialog! I know we're not supposed to judge people on artistic merit, but when there's no art at all...

And the story itself make very little sense. Why is "Stalker" attacking? Why does Gremlin explode and then we find out he's only unconscious? Why are you including D&D references? Why is Gremlin breaking the fourth wall? What's happening?

In order:
I actually did forget. I prefer to do the foreground first and then do the background, making this common. I intent to change this promptly. The second comic wasn't forgotten, though I suppose a bit of background was in order. I was in a hurry, and background wasn't really necessary. He's unconscious, and it's from his mind, there's not much to see. One comic is't setting any precedent, trust me.

Why is Ins supposed to be evil? Why did Voldemort attack Harry Potter? We don't know, and won't until the end. I maintain the right to a bit of secrecy my characters' motivations.

He didn't explode, a bunch of blood flew out form his head. That was my own attempt to avoid having to draw him, because I was rushed. It will be changed.

I included no D&D references. I included one Pathfinder reference, and it wasn't a rules one. Stabilize is, in game terms, a 0th level spell which can be cast at will. It's perfectly reasonable for me to reference a spell.

He didn't truly break the fourth wall, but since when do we do otherwise? I'll remove it, of course, but a lot of people have done both rules references and fourth wall breakage.

I'm having to make about five edits, that's what's happening.
Confusion is a major theme of Stalker, though, so I think a bit of it can't hurt anybody. I plan to reveal a lot more in later comics, so have patience.

[BRC]

I included no D&D references. I included one Pathfinder reference, and it wasn't a rules one. Stabilize is, in game terms, a 0th level spell which can be cast at will. It's perfectly reasonable for me to reference a spell.

That's like saying "you said not to put chicken on the sandwich, so I put on some turkey".

As for the other stuff, with FI we are trying to go for a more serious story, rather than the DnD-esque, vaugely OOTS romp that was FFF.

We have FFFR for all your silly romping needs.

Also, welcome back. We rented out your room, sold your comic books, and ate your pet moose. Sorry.

[Kumo]

nobody complained when i referenced prestige classes =/

[Mina Kobold]

Mostly it's the MRI that worries me, I've been electrocuted enough in my lifetime to be reasonably certain that won't do me much greater harm than to most folk.

But yes, wholly serious. Not a loud buzz mind you, but enough for me to notice when it stops...like when electricians killed the house power recently...

This

Wouldn't that shred up your blood vessels, veins and heart, causing you to die a slow painful death? Or mess up your kidneys? Or (at best) be dissolved in your blood because of how small they'd have to be to not shred up your veins and arteries?

To be honest, it sounds a bit strange that it's metal shrapnel causing that. I hear an annoying high-pitched noise whenever old televisions are turned on (I know that's somewhat common but still) but I blame that on the technology in the television, shrapnel just makes no sense to me.

Why does shrapnel cause that effect on you without killing you?

Merry Christmas

[Mad Mask]

In order:
I actually did forget. I prefer to do the foreground first and then do the background, making this common. I intent to change this promptly.

You didn't see that there was a lot of blank space in your comic?

The second comic wasn't forgotten, though I suppose a bit of background was in order. I was in a hurry, and background wasn't really necessary. He's unconscious, and it's from his mind, there's not much to see. One comic is't setting any precedent, trust me.

It's still exceptionally lazy, and even in your first comic there was a lot of blank space. If you had put black instead it would at least be more understandable, but you didn't even take the second it would take you to make a black square!

Why is Ins supposed to be evil? Why did Voldemort attack Harry Potter? We don't know, and won't until the end. I maintain the right to a bit of secrecy my characters' motivations.

Ins believes in the Sovice gods and they have different morals than that of occidental 21st century society. That has never been a secret.

And it's not just "a bit". We don't know everything about the character. He just appeared out of nowhere, without any introduction or prior mention, and attacked Nilmerg for no apparent reason.

He didn't explode, a bunch of blood flew out form his head. That was my own attempt to avoid having to draw him, because I was rushed. It will be changed.

Here's one tip: don't rush. This is not a job, this is a hobby, and additionally, you had no pressure whatsoever to make any comics. I would suggest you completely redraw your comics, add a background, remake the script so it becomes less confusing and less nonsensical, and add better quality art (you've been doing these comics for almost 2 years now, surely you must have improved by now!).

So don't rush, take your time. You can take days to make a comic if you want; I've done that several times.

I'm having to make about five edits, that's what's happening.
Confusion is a major theme of Stalker, though, so I think a bit of it can't hurt anybody. I plan to reveal a lot more in later comics, so have patience.

It's not just the story that's confusing, it's also the art. Why are there a lot of panels with lines in them? You shouldn't have to explain so much, it should be understandable by just looking at the art.

[Lyinginbedmon]

To be honest, it sounds a bit strange that it's metal shrapnel causing that. I hear an annoying high-pitched noise whenever old televisions are turned on (I know that's somewhat common but still) but I blame that on the technology in the television, shrapnel just makes no sense to me.

Why does shrapnel cause that effect on you without killing you?

It's the electrical field generated by the electronics that causes the buzzing in my ears, by interacting with the shrapnel. It's very noticeable that whenever I'm in a dead zone of electronics, like driving through the countryside or camping in the wilderness, the buzzing is extremely less pronounced, even with radio waves about. I've managed to actually recognise audibly when the Internet connection is down, which freaks out my housemates to no end.

I've had this stuff in me since birth, so apparently I'm very lucky to be alive, but as a consequence of surviving most of my vascular system is scar tissue, which is less flexible but better able to withstand damage from the shrapnel. In all this makes my already lackluster sports abilities nigh non-existent.

I found this out around the same time I had an operation to remove my gallbladder, it's something that can't be fixed but it doesn't really cause me any discomfort apart from a bit of joint wear. I can't give blood (because the person receiving it would very likely die of the hitherto-suggested internal haemorrhaging), but I can still receive it.

However, I wasn't told whether the metal involved was ferrous, so even without the buzzing I definitely don't want to try sticking my torso in a massive electromagnet (MRI) just yet.

[The Gremlin]

You didn't see that there was a lot of blank space in your comic?



It's still exceptionally lazy, and even in your first comic there was a lot of blank space. If you had put black instead it would at least be more understandable, but you didn't even take the second it would take you to make a black square!



Ins believes in the Sovice gods and they have different morals than that of occidental 21st century society. That has never been a secret.

And it's not just "a bit". We don't know everything about the character. He just appeared out of nowhere, without any introduction or prior mention, and attacked Nilmerg for no apparent reason.



Here's one tip: don't rush. This is not a job, this is a hobby, and additionally, you had no pressure whatsoever to make any comics. I would suggest you completely redraw your comics, add a background, remake the script so it becomes less confusing and less nonsensical, and add better quality art (you've been doing these comics for almost 2 years now, surely you must have improved by now!).

So don't rush, take your time. You can take days to make a comic if you want; I've done that several times.



It's not just the story that's confusing, it's also the art. Why are there a lot of panels with lines in them? You shouldn't have to explain so much, it should be understandable by just looking at the art.

Again in order:
Again, I was rushed, I just forgot to look it over. It won't happen again. Trust me, I don't want to leave the background blank, it looks stupid. I'm already redrawing it.

Point, I'll put black in next time I'm lazy. :P

Actually, it's still not quite clear what about believing in the Sovice gods means that he founded the UNA for evil ends. That's bigoted against alien religions. Lying knows, but he keeps it to himself. I thought that was one of the big reasons the Resistance is discredited.

Okay, more than a bit. But you just aren't supposed to know anything about him. I plan on explaining in a later comic which I'll start working on as soon as I finish fixing the old ones. In said comic, I'll explain his identity, race, allegiance, etc.

Here's one tip: don't rush. This is not a job, this is a hobby, and additionally, you had no pressure whatsoever to make any comics.

Good point. The only real pressure was myself, as I was uncertain how long I'd have the motivation before procrastination set in or I chickened out. But you're quite right, and from now on I won't rush (unless I'm in the middle of an action scene or I'm rushed by some other outside force, of course).

...add better quality art (you've been doing these comics for almost 2 years now, surely you must have improved by now!).

It hasn't. I lost a lot of my experience during my absence, and I never had much in the first place, I spent a lot of my time copy/pasting. So please don't mock me over it.

How do I explain what the lines are? They're supposed to be motion lines, but I'm not quite sure how to make this clear.

[Kumo]

Actually, it's still not quite clear what about believing in the Sovice gods means that he founded the UNA for evil ends. That's bigoted against alien religions. Lying knows, but he keeps it to himself. I thought that was one of the big reasons the Resistance is discredited.

they basically say the sovice can take and do whatever the hell they please to advance their race and anything organic is blasphemy to their gods.

Please correct me if i'm wrong, this is mostly a guess based on what happens in remember.

How do I explain what the lines are? They're supposed to be motion lines, but I'm not quite sure how to make this clear.

Maybe sound effects that explain what the motions are, like "*step step*"?

[Mad Mask]

Actually, it's still not quite clear what about believing in the Sovice gods means that he founded the UNA for evil ends. That's bigoted against alien religions. Lying knows, but he keeps it to himself. I thought that was one of the big reasons the Resistance is discredited.

Huh? It's quite clear how why he founded the UNA. It was to protect himself from his enemy, the New Sovice Empire, who wouldn't dare to do anything to the Sovices in Avbaroy because they are so entangled in Avbaroy politics, and destroying them would violate their directive to never interfere with non-space faring species. Ins' improving of the quality of life in Avbaroy further enhances their aversion to exterminate him, because that would cause immense social disorders and do more good than harm.

That doesn't mean the Ins' Sovices will stay on Avbaroy forever, though. They have a plan.

they basically say the sovice can take and do whatever the hell they please to advance their race and anything organic is blasphemy to their gods.

Please correct me if i'm wrong, this is mostly a guess based on what happens in remember.

As I understand it, the first one is correct, as the Holy Sovice Militia regards itself as superior to everything else, but I don't believe they hold biological creatures in any special regard. They would act the same to a silicon-based lifeforms or robotic enemies.

[BRC]

An image of text is no different than text.

As for Stalker, I don't actually mind what you did there. Yes he popped up out of nowhere, but we're aloud to have enigmatic characters. It would be good if you gave us enough information about him to let us use him in our comics (This is a cooperative web comic after all). We don't need his life's story, but his general goals and capabilities would be nice. If I make a comic featuring some Detta's trying to capture him, it would be nice to have some idea of what he can do, or what he's trying to do next.

Also, as Mask said, don't feel you need to rush the art. ABR moves at a snails pace nowadays. Spend time on your art, and think through your writing. You're art doesn't need to be great, but it should look like you put effort into it, like you're working to make a great comic rather than just trying to participate and/or steer the plot in a direction you want.
Remember Master Ranger, we didn't respect him because it was clear he put very little effort into his comics.

Now take a look at Mask. He's respected here, we waited almost a year for him to start FI remember. We were itching for it to begin, but we said "Well, we should wait to let Mask start it". We don't always agree with him, but we respect him. This is because, say what you will about him, it's clear he puts effort into the comics he makes. Look at his last one, physically, it's mainly just two people talking, but he zooms in and out, shifts the focus, changes their expressions. He could easily have copied his first panel, moved somebodies arm up and down each panel, and just changed the dialog. Instead, he did all these things to make a more interesting comic, and that shows effort.
Saying "I was going to put a background on, but I forgot" dosn't help your case here. In fact, what it says is "I was going to put a background on, but I wanted to post a comic so much that I didn't notice it was missing". This excuse is justifiable when you're missing a minor detail, and you wanted to post the comic, so you didn't look over it as closely as you should have. However, something major like a background makes it seem as if you just wanted to do the bare minimum so you could post a comic.
It's like going to a potluck where people have baked cookies and pies, made baskets full of sandwhiches, brought soups and salads, somebody has a grill and is making burgers, ect, then you show up with a small bag of Doritos and say "Hey, I brought something!".
You're comic, I'm sorry to say, is visually rather bland. No background, a box, the secretary has absolutely no details on him (No hair, his clothing is a simple rectangle, there's nothing on the desk. He's essentially OOTS-style male template. Also, his desk changes colors. Stalker is just a few lines, yes since he's an Invisible Stalker that makes sense as a way to represent him, but your choice of an Invisible Stalker as a character seems to say "I Want a character that's easy for me to draw".

Invisible Stalker's are amorphous clouds when seen through see invisibility, maybe draw a semiclear cloud (to represent that we, the audience can see him, even though he's invisible), or a dotted outline. Something to say "I would draw him, except he's just an invisible cloud". Come up with an interesting way to represent him. Make us feel that the fact that you can't represent him visually is an unfortunate side effect of the nature of the character, and not the reason you picked him.

[Mina Kobold]

It hasn't. I lost a lot of my experience during my absence, and I never had much in the first place, I spent a lot of my time copy/pasting. So please don't mock me over it.

How do I explain what the lines are? They're supposed to be motion lines, but I'm not quite sure how to make this clear.

May I suggest you just do some of the comic when you want? That's how I do it: fifteen minutes of comic making, then I get bored and do something else, but in time my comic is done without any rushing

I would also suggest sound effects (like 'sneak' 'sneak') and perhaps a distinctive colour for motion lines, I use bright lines because absolutely nothing in my comics have bright lines but the motion lines.

It's up to you though

[Kumo]

As I understand it, the first one is correct, as the Holy Sovice Militia regards itself as superior to everything else, but I don't believe they hold biological creatures in any special regard. They would act the same to a silicon-based lifeforms or robotic enemies.

I got that second part from Mersenne's contempt for Maeter's biological half.

[The Gremlin]

Hmm. Well, that's a good guess. The original idea when creating Stalker was to make something I could commit to. I regret that now, but I like his concept. I'll just have to do more later to compensate.
The secretary was pure laziness. Since I'm editing right now, I'll alter a bit of his stuff too. I'm not changing the clothing, though. I'm fond of the Box Shirt. It's not that I'm lazy. It's just that they're terribly comfortable, I think everyone will be wearing them in the future.

The only reason I didn't post a description was because I was planning to do it in the character sheet format and lost the template. However, here goes:
Name: Stalker (sort of)
Race: Invisible Stalker
Backstory: Nothing much. He was raised in the Scenvian church, and became a very fanatical member of the clergy.
Alignment: Very lawful, and amoral.
Motivations: His only drive is to destroy all 'abominations'. He's the judge on what qualifies. It should be noted that he's a bit hypocritical, as invisible stalkers are from another plane and therefore 'abominations'. His justification is that he's from an elemental plane.
Almost done editing the comic.