Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashlight.

[† Dran †]

meph is a hit or miss character at best. Glass Cannon really. He can take out well over his points value in a NORMAL game but against a torny list he really is a waste of points.

Oh and sang guard become troops if Dante is taken..... but meh there still not good enough to take even then. Max 5 models? Lol no.

Oh and id advise that taking a locator beacon on a storm raven is well worth it..If only to pin point drop a dred and an assault squad on top of a few units before it becomes a fire platform.

[crazedloon]

my .02 on mephiston is that his stat line is a little silly (at least as a straight stat line) and feel his weapons or inborn power should give him that stat line (this comes down to fluff an little of rules more later) even if his weapon was a relic blade with the force weapon property I would be more ok with it

now for balance for a whole 22 points more I can get a 14 AV all around Independant character on a fast skimmer which can launch 1 str 8 ap 2 and 6 str 4 ap 3 shots after moving 12"

or I can have a full unit of wyches led by lelith for less points (207, 11 points over gives you a ride) and that unit probably can give him a run for his money thanks to lelith and the succubus having 11 power weapon attacks which wound on a 4+ regardless and reroll misses (as well as 8 bodies to soak up wounds, and 6 of those attacks hit before him) The whole unit has 4+ invulnerable and she has 2+ (not that he is likely to get to her IMHO)

and that is a codex over 10 years old

[Trixie]

It's not a good point, if your 'oh so awesome' move takes a Unique character to pull off (it's what Unique characters do) and only works for one unit.

I did said it was but one of the ways to abuse DS with BA codex.

They don't have Meltaguns. They have Melta-Pistols, with a piss-poor range. Whoo...It's Melta range is 3". And if you're taking those, you're losing the AP4 Bolters. You don't get to have Shrodinger's Unit and say that it's awesome.

Where I did said they're Schrödinger's unit? Putting words in my mouth again?

Simple, give Meltapistols to ones with Dante, Bolters to all the others. Land the ones with Melta in nice circle around target unit, 2" away it it is a vehicle, 2-5" away if it is something else. There, range problem solved.

No. No they can't be taken as Troops.

No?

You were citing Dante's rules just before. Check them again, maybe?

He's even better than Kantor in this regard.

Deploying on the board is usually a 2nd Turn Assault.
Deploying from Deep Strike is at best a 3rd Turn Assault. Or, maybe 2nd if you're using Drop Pods. Or 1st, if your enemy Assaults you.

Um, the supposedly useless Descent of Angels rule. They can reroll all DS rolls, making them much more reliable.

Yep, Locator Beacons also work when you jump out of a Stormraven.

You know where you can mount one?

On Stormraven.

Now, what you were saying about scatter?

You need to ask? Wow...

Yeah, I'm tired of people implying one thing then jumping on me as soon as I accept it because they meant something completely different, really.

Fixed it for you.

Yeah, I couldn't describe you better

Librarian 100
Death Company 60 Redeemer 240
Assault Squad 100 Redeemer 205
Assault Squad 100 Redeemer 205
...1010. It can be doable in the more friendly games.

Three Land Raiders.

In more friendly games.

Now, what were you saying yesterday about just two?

That it's outclassed in every way by all other Heavy Support options.

That's it? [shrug] okay.

Sure, that turn, it can't shoot. And the guys inside get to Deep Strike out and die. Second, you're really relying on Cover Saves? Wow.

*cough* Locator *cough*

And yeah, why would I rely on cover saves in Edition being all about cover saves?

Depends how much terrain you like to use. The default answer is usually 'A Lot', with all the in-between spaces filled with enemy units. It doesn't always work. Or '5" from any/all obstacles' sounds a lot like 'left out in the open'.

[shrug] Okay, it depends. Plus, ok, I can take it back - thanks for reminding me about locators, my point is moot as you can simply deploy them in any way you want

How do you move units in combat? I never said that you did. The Librarian comes in later.

Step 1. Tie Mephiston up with Thunder Hammer Terminators - who also cart 3+ Invulnerables so wont die that easily.
Step 2. Whilst Fisty is I1, throw your Librarian in.

?

Wait, how does this work?

Hmmm, I'll have to re-read combat section again.

So, you want to put a (admittedly, farily good) Unique up against a non-Unique and you really need to ask how it goes? Wow.

Toughness 4. No Eternal Warrior. Lower Initiative. No way to stop Mephiston using all his Psychic Powers or Force Weapon attacks. Pretty one-sided.

Eh, I doubt it will be so simple. I'll run a little mathhammer later and see if they are really so outclassed.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Where I did said they're Schrödinger's unit? Putting words in my mouth again?

I think he was just saying that himself rather than claiming to paraphrase you.

Wait, how does this work?

Hmmm, I'll have to re-read combat section again.

Very simply. He just makes sure the librarian isn't in the same unit as the terminators and assaults him the turn after.

[Winterwind]

I think I'll play translator a bit for Trixie's sake...

Erm... do you mean they're good or bad here?

"Chaos Lords [...] crap on everything": Chaos Lords do whatever they want with everything / Chaos Lords do unpleasant things to everything as they please.

It means they are good.

Is that a made-up word?

"Fixed": Past form of "to fix" - to repair, to remove the mistakes.

And since it's another idiom Cheesegear likes to use which, as I recall, has confused you in the past:
"to go nuts" - literally "to go crazy", figuratively "to do whatever one wants".

Eh, I doubt it will be so simple. I'll run a little mathhammer later and see if they are really so outclassed.

Nah, it's really pretty much hopeless. Mephiston gets to strike first, and if only one of these attacks manages to get past the (not very high) invulnerable save of the Chaos Lord, the Chaos Lord is pretty much assuredly toast.

[Cheesegear]

or I can have a full unit of wyches led by lelith for less points (207, 11 points over gives you a ride) and that unit probably can give him a run for his money thanks to lelith and the succubus having 11 power weapon attacks which wound on a 4+ regardless and reroll misses (as well as 8 bodies to soak up wounds, and 6 of those attacks hit before him) The whole unit has 4+ invulnerable and she has 2+ (not that he is likely to get to her IMHO)

and that is a codex over 10 years old

...Only because Dark Eldar is a really old Codex, and, has the ruling that Independent Characters with Retinues lose their ICness, and therefore can't be targeted in Assault.

Where I did said they're Schrödinger's unit? Putting words in my mouth again?

No. You're giving them all the options they can theoretically take - at once. Which makes it Shrodinger's Unit. You just don't know to call it that.

He's even better than Kantor in this regard.

Sternguard > Sanguinary Guard.
Sternguard also have the AP4 ammo. They also have poison ammo, AP3 ammo, anti-cover ammo...

The only sticking point is the 2+ save. But, as I may've said another time, a really good save, really isn't that good without an Invulnerable.

Dante is better than Kantor, because Kantor is an Independent Character with a Power Fist.

Um, the supposedly useless Descent of Angels rule. They can reroll all DS rolls, making them much more reliable.

You still can't Assault off a Deep Strike. That's what makes it bad. What makes it worse is how unreliable it is. Sure, DoA/THs makes it reliable, but, Deep Striking is still a bad idea.

And yeah, why would I rely on cover saves in Edition being all about cover saves?

Who told you that? If your army is relying on cover saves, you will get rolled (It's why you don't see Eldar Pathfinder armies). I get the same cover saves on my Land Speeders. They don't help. If you're getting shot at, you're getting shot at.

Unless you're one of the few 3rd/4th Ed. armies left to be lucky enough to still have the old Smoke Launchers...

Wait, how does this work?

You mean you didn't know you could Assault units that are already in Assault from last turn?

And since it's another idiom Cheesegear likes to use which, as I recall, has confused you in the past:
"to go nuts" - literally "to go crazy", figuratively "to do whatever one wants".

I am both ashamed and amused that I am known so well.

...To say nothing of "Rocks {the house/like all get-out/like a Ducati}".

To be fair I haven't said '...rocks like a Ducati...' in quite some time (its a decidedly Australian term). I'll try and put it in whenever my next post happens to be about something good

[Winterwind]

I am both ashamed and amused that I am known so well.

Eh, most people have a fairly distinct writing style and/or frequently used idioms if one pays attention. Which is not to say you are not a figure of renown in this thread.

...To say nothing of "Rocks {the house/like all get-out/like a Ducati}".

To be fair I haven't said '...rocks like a Ducati...' in quite some time (its a decidedly Australian term). I'll try and put it in whenever my next post happens to be about something good

I have to admit, I do not think I have ever encountered the Ducati one before.


Oh, and one more thing - I absolutely agree that jumppack units are generally much better off jumping to the location they are supposed to get to, rather than deepstriking to it. It's far more reliable - not just with regards to them ending up where they are supposed to, but more importantly with them ending up there when they are supposed to. In my last game, my Raptor squad remained far too long in reserve; had I just deployed them, I would have had them in position far more early, capable of assaulting, and I could have used them as the situation called for it against different targets earlier in the game, too. I don't think I'm going to deepstrike them in again any time soon; the only thing I might consider deepstriking in now are my Terminators.

[Oslecamo]

+1 to just deploying jumppack troops right from the begginning of battle.

After all, they have jumppacks! They move 12 and ignore dificult terrain! They can quickly reach any place in the battlefield no problem, no need to bet your luck with reserve rolls.

Termies don't have jumppacks and can't get in cheap rhinos, so they're off better deep striking if you want those power fists/lighting claws/thunder hammers to see some action. Altough if you've got the points landraider+termies can be quite groovy.

Also in shameless promotion to Firestorm over Kronus Mod for Dawn of War, in that conversion there's no reserve rolls or deep strike mishaps, so it actualy pays off to keep your assault troops back and deep strike then directly where you need them. Or anything that can deepstrike really. It's quite fluffy to see more than half the marine army arrive by deepstrike in a fast deadly deployment.

[Mattarias, King.]

Speaking of jump infantry and deepstrikes, ANY jump infantry can deepstrike, correct? If so, I'm gonna have me a word with some Tau and Eldar...

[Erloas]

Speaking of jump infantry and deepstrikes, ANY jump infantry can deepstrike, correct? If so, I'm gonna have me a word with some Tau and Eldar...

As of this edition yes. It used to have to be stated, or in the case of some Eldar units, purchased. It just means they have some useless upgrades that should never be taken.

[Cheesegear]

Speaking of jump infantry and deepstrikes, ANY jump infantry can deepstrike, correct? If so, I'm gonna have me a word with some Tau and Eldar...

That's correct.
Crisis Suits Deep Strike all the time with all their amazing weapons. I rather don't like it when they do that. You don't want these guys in Assault anyway. So, Deep Striking works fairly well for them.

Swooping Hawks are supposed to Deep Strike. They get to drop Grenades anywhere with only 1d6 Scatter on the board when they do so. It's great. The fact that they get also DS 2-3 (with Skyleap) times per game - dropping Grenades every time - is also pretty good. You kind of need an Autarch for this to go smoothly though.

Warp Spiders don't really need to Deep Strike. They also have a redundant Exarch power and everything; Surprise Assault allows Warp Spiders to Deep Strike, despite the fact that they can anyway. 4th Ed. Codex and all.

But, yeah, Warp Spiders don't really get any special bonuses when they do, and their guns aren't good enough for 'behind enemy lines' tactics. WSs shouldn't really Deep Strike.

[Lycan 01]

Hokay then. Some critique.
1. Drop the TL Shoota on your Warboss and take an Attack Squig.
No squig piece, and I'd rather not have to take a knife to my favorite model.
2. If you're going to upgrade the weapons on your Nobs, Kombi-Skorcha is the way to go. But again, you'll want to prioritise wound allocation, like so:

Spoiler

Show

10 Nobs, Cyborks, Armour.
1. Slugga/Choppa.
2. Slugga/Choppa, Ammo Runt.
3. Choppa, Kombi-Skorcha.
4. Slugga/Choppa, Waaagh! Banner.
5. Painboy.
6. Slugga, Big Choppa.
7. Kombi-Skorcha, Big Choppa.
8. Power Klaw.
9. Power Klaw, Bosspole.
10. Power Klaw, Kombi-Skorcha.

Drop however many of them you need to make it fit your models.
So I start dropping from #1 until I have the number of models I actually own left? In this case, I have six Nobs, so I should take everything from the Painboy up? Groovy...

Wait, I'm confused. Aren't Big Choppas 2-handed weapons? How do they still have guns?


3. 'Ard Boyz is an upgrade to the entire squad, not to individual models.
+4 points for every Boy who takes 'Eavy Armor...
4. IMO, mobs of more than 20 Boyz should always be Shoota Boyz, and mobs of less than that should always be in transports. Take that as you will.
Touche... But I've got a limited number of Boyz, and I want to be able to take the fight straight to the enemy. And to do that, I need numbers...
5. Deffkoptas are not very good, but since you have no Lootas they're probably the best anti-light vehicle you have. Get some Lootas instead.
More wounds, better defenses, and much, much, much more speed. I'm content with my Koptas...
6. Big Shootas on your Looted Wagon probably won't be doing much. I'd recommend getting rid of them.
[b]I'll do that. I don't have the spare bits, anyway...[/b[
7. Your Trukk upgrades probably aren't worth the points. Trukks are Fast anyway, so RPJ doesn't matter as much. Armour Plates only work 1/6 of the time, if that. Reinforced Ram is...unnecessary. If they fall back from your Tank Shock, you might not be able to assault them. Bad thing.
Touche, again. But every inch matters in the case of the paint, and the armor is one of those "just in case" things, since I'd hate for my trukk to get halted by a crew stunned result in the middle of an important attack. I'll drop the ram, though...
8. Grotzookas x2 should really be Grotzookas x3.
I know, but I'm not sure if I can get the Imp Guard Autocannon I used off the can. Its quite firmly glued on there... with plastic glue... If I can get it off, though, I will. I need that Autocannon for the Guard now, anyway...

Alright guys, riddle me this: Which is more effective? The massive mob of 30 Ard Boyz who aren't insta-killed by bolters and stand a chance of lasting much longer in assault? Or, using the points from the 'Eavy Armor to buy more boyz, 3 squads of 20 Boyz who are insta-killed by bolters and will probably make it into the assault with maybe half strength or higher, if I'm lucky?

[Mattarias, King.]

Well, I was thinking more about my Seraphim and getting them behind enemy lines fairly quickly, but that's definitely good to know. Good thing my girlfriend isn't packing any of those... So many fire dragons though...

[Erloas]

Alright guys, riddle me this: Which is more effective? The massive mob of 30 Ard Boyz who aren't insta-killed by bolters and stand a chance of lasting much longer in assault? Or, using the points from the 'Eavy Armor to buy more boyz, 3 squads of 20 Boyz who are insta-killed by bolters and will probably make it into the assault with maybe half strength or higher, if I'm lucky?

Well do a bit of math and see. 30 Ard Boyz that have a 4+ save means half the shots will not kill one. Alternatively, 3 squads of 20 is 60 boyz. Against any AP5 or worse weapon its going to come out the same. If you start getting hit with AP4 or better weapons then they die just as easily, the likes of heavy bolters, autocannons and most vehicle template weapons.

Are Ard Boyz any better in assault? Well the armor is nice, but in most cases Orks never have a problem winning assaults anyway, and units are often large enough that any casualties taken are going to be on boyz not close enough to attack anyway.

And with a bit of planning its not hard to get a free 4+ save anyway: cover.

[Shas aia Toriia]

I have to admit, I do not think I have ever encountered the Ducati one before.

I don't believe anybody else has either.

Also, I agree with Erloas on 'Ard Boys. That's not counting that 3 units of ork can tie up 3 units in melee, something 1 blob can not do, not to mention one thing that others like to point out - its very difficult getting 30 orks all close enough to actually make attacks against something once you get in assault.

[Lycan 01]

Well do a bit of math and see. 30 Ard Boyz that have a 4+ save means half the shots will not kill one. Alternatively, 3 squads of 20 is 60 boyz. Against any AP5 or worse weapon its going to come out the same. If you start getting hit with AP4 or better weapons then they die just as easily, the likes of heavy bolters, autocannons and most vehicle template weapons.

Oddly enough, my SM buddy lacks a large number of AP 4 weapons...

So it really turns out about even in the end, though leaning more towards mass non-'eavy armored ork mobs in case of the enemy having AP4- weapons...

The fact that I don't have a butt-ton of Boyz is a factor, too...

Are Ard Boyz any better in assault? Well the armor is nice, but in most cases Orks never have a problem winning assaults anyway, and units are often large enough that any casualties taken are going to be on boyz not close enough to attack anyway.

The laws of physics hate me. Dice tend to roll against my favor in assaults. I like that extra durability on my Boyz. Or is that silly on my part?

And with a bit of planning its not hard to get a free 4+ save anyway: cover.

Something most of my games tend to lack. More often than not, my Boyz have to charge across wide stretches of open ground.

I don't believe anybody else has either.

Also, I agree with Erloas on 'Ard Boys. That's not counting that 3 units of ork can tie up 3 units in melee, something 1 blob can not do, not to mention one thing that others like to point out - its very difficult getting 30 orks all close enough to actually make attacks against something once you get in assault.

That reminds me. What's a Ducati?


Yes, blob vs. small targets is a problem. But my SM tends to cluster his Marines, and if one squad gets assaulted, he opts to pile them all in. If he were split up and spread out, then naturally I'd be more inclined to split up my Boyz...

And the reason they're 'Ard Boyz is so enough of them survive the charge to to the enemy. Do I expect 30 Boyz to make it into Assault with 'Eavy Armor? No. Do I expect 20 or so 'Ard Boyz to make it? Yes. Is that enough to get the job done? Dunno. But its a lot more than I'd have if they didn't have the 'Eavy Armor...

[Cheesegear]

That reminds me. What's a Ducati?

A rather good brand of racing motorcycle. Australians (including me) love them for some reason.

If you've ever watched moto-racing before, you might notice that when they turn corners, they rock side-to-side.

With 'rocks' also being a euphemism for 'really good'...You end up getting
"Rocks like a Ducati."

...Yes. Cheesegear likes motorbikes. This should not be a surprise.

[Erloas]

Something most of my games tend to lack. More often than not, my Boyz have to charge across wide stretches of open ground.

Well seeing as you seem to be the driving force of 40k with your group, maybe that should be your next project rather then increasing you current army(ies) much more since you out-point most of your opponents now anyway. Buy a few walls and shrubs, a ruined building, and some trees.

The dynamics of the game change a lot when you go from a fairly empty board to one with a reasonable amount of scenery.

[Cheesegear]

The dynamics of the game change a lot when you go from a fairly empty board to one with a reasonable amount of scenery.

Cities of Death/Cityfight are very fun.

[Lycan 01]

Hm...

*surveys pile of cardboard and plasticard he's stocked up on for scenery*

I suppose I should get around to that...


Oh and Cheesegear, I feel stupid. I had to reread your post before I realized why your love of motorcycles should be expected. I laughed quite a bit when I figured it out, for some odd reason...



So, should I stick with the 30 'Ard Boyz for now? Or do I need to invest in more Boyz kits, or just another AoBR to be more economic?



Speaking of AoBR... Can Grey Knights termies take Power Fists? I thought about the idea of some GK termies as allies for my Imp Guard army (if/when I finally get around to it... ), and I wondered if converting them from some cheap AoBR would be a possibility...

Maybe me and my SM can split AoBR and the Daemonhunter's Codex, since our hobby store still has it for 20 bucks, and then figure out how to share a squad of GK's...

Cheesegear, you posted a guide to converting GK's awhile back. Any idea where it went?

[Myatar_Panwar]

As to your comment about 2-handed weapons and other things: As long as it doesn't say something is being replaced, it doesn't matter

Demon Weapons for CSM are two handed, but you can still take a combi-gun, for example.

It is just assumed that the model switches weapons when needed. The 2-handed is just there to drive home the point that you cant get CCW+Pistol bonus there.

[Lycan 01]

Oh.

Oh.

Oh!

So I can just pay extra points and give my S&C Nobs Big Choppas without having to do any real modifications. Nifty!

I was just confused on that, since I've seen Big Choppa models holding 2-handed weapons, thus I assumed you couldn't have a Slugga-B.Choppa combo...

[DranWork]

Ive oft heard my mates and I sprout "Rocks like a ducati", if only because where all motobike fans as well.. and live in Australia.

So tomorrow (sunday) ill be heading out to my first "Tournament" of sorts against my local gaming group with a prize pool of (currently) 100 bucks. So ill be testing out my DIY chapter using the Blood Angels codex for the rules. Now having only played a few games with this list, im looking for some advice.

1750 point games of which I will be fielding 2 Baal Preds (dakka preds TLAC and HB's) and one Furioso Dread (blood talons). Now i have the points left over that i can take a Drop pod for the Dread but i was wondering if this was a sound idea or not.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Oh.

Oh.

Oh!

So I can just pay extra points and give my S&C Nobs Big Choppas without having to do any real modifications. Nifty!

I was just confused on that, since I've seen Big Choppa models holding 2-handed weapons, thus I assumed you couldn't have a Slugga-B.Choppa combo...

It also gives you an excuse to upgrade that slugga to twin-linked shootas/combi-scorchas. Your not going to be getting that extra attack anyway with the big choppa.

[Arcanoi]

So, should I stick with the 30 'Ard Boyz for now? Or do I need to invest in more Boyz kits, or just another AoBR to be more economic?

I advocate three squads of twenty. It's good sense.

Speaking of AoBR... Can Grey Knights termies take Power Fists? I thought about the idea of some GK termies as allies for my Imp Guard army (if/when I finally get around to it... ), and I wondered if converting them from some cheap AoBR would be a possibility...

Maybe me and my SM can split AoBR and the Daemonhunter's Codex, since our hobby store still has it for 20 bucks, and then figure out how to share a squad of GK's...

Cheesegear, you posted a guide to converting GK's awhile back. Any idea where it went?

I suggest not taking GKs until we hear more about whether they're getting a new codex (And a new range of plastic minis).

[Cheesegear]

Speaking of AoBR... Can Grey Knights termies take Power Fists?

No. They can take Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield though.
The Brother-Captain can take a Power Fist though. I don't see why you would, since he already has an S6 Power Weapon.

I thought about the idea of some GK termies as allies for my Imp Guard army (if/when I finally get around to it... ), and I wondered if converting them from some cheap AoBR would be a possibility...

Bolter & Chainsword knows What's Up.

Cheesegear, you posted a guide to converting GK's awhile back. Any idea where it went?

You might be thinking of the time when I made my own plastic Deathwatch/Sternguard. But, I have made plastic Grey Knights as well.

You can make the helmets easily enough (like the above link). What you're really missing are Storm Bolters and Halberds.

Storm Bolters are found in more than a few kits. Or, you can just Green Stuff two Bolters together.
Halberds...Not so much. I'm afraid that's conversion work time there. However, on your side, is the fact that in the Grey Knights novels, Nemesis Force Weapons actually come in any form of weapon you want - even Flails (although it's specifically pointed out that Flail-form Force Weapons are dangerous as Hell, and only the true psychos use them). So long as you get the paint-job right, it shouldn't be a problem.
Halberds are available from Mail Order.

Making 100% plastic ones in Power Armour is also very easy. The following method is for making 10. And is actually cheaper than buying 10 Grey Knights. However, if you only want 5 GKs, you're better off buying the box.

What you need is the Command Squad box and the Dark Angel Veterans box. This gets you 10 sets of legs. As well as a lot of other funky pieces. Something else important, is the Black Templar upgrade box. Which contains four suits of Errant Armour (plus the one the Command Box), and four more MkIII helmets. The DA Box also comes with one or two hooded MkIII helmets which is cool.
Since the BT pieces have tabards, it's not really all that much work to make them look like the front pieces of robes. So, you can fit the BT pieces onto the Dark Angels pieces and it still looks quite nice.

Another thing to note, is that Chest Plates fit onto Terminators.

I like this guy. Blurry picture ahoy.

Legs. 'Champion' chest-plate from the Command Sprue. MkIII helmet - probably also from the Command Sprue. The Banner-arm from the Command Sprue (presumably a Halberd-base). Storm Bolter from the Commander Box. As well as various pieces of Termintor Armour plates.

I don't know what the right Shoulder Pad is, but, one the Champion's from the Command Squad box would do. And the left one is presumably a Deathwatch-style pad of some description. I like Deathwatch Pads. The Command Squad box also comes with five Terminators Honours pads, they'd look alright too.

Last I checked, GK boxes were $65AU (all following prices are based on $AU). Or, $130 for 10, with two Justicar models () and IIRC two Incinerators and not Psycannons. However, these boxes no longer exist (from where I'm sitting). And are all metal, and all pretty much exactly the same.

Command Squad box; $50
Dark Angel Veterans; $35
Black Templar Upgrades; $35
...Surprise, surprise...$120 total. Halberds come in at an extra $18 for four and one sword from Mail Order. But, you don't have to have Halberds.
Storm Bolters you should be able to get from your Bitz box, or Green Stuffing two Bolters together.

Ultimately, just play the 'Count As' rule.
Do they have Storm Bolters?
Do they have Power Weapons?
Do they look really, really cool?
If yes, they're Grey Knights.

[Lycan 01]

Hm...

Could you count a Power Fist as a Force Fist?

If not, my SM buddy has a Termy power weapon or 2 to spare from his Dark Angels bitz... I should talk to him about this at some point, and see what he thinks about the idea of some Daemonhunter allies for our armies...


How effective would an allied Termy squad be for the Imperial Guard, anyway? I mean, they seem like they'd be a points sink, but the sheer amount of force and defense they probably wield might help make up for their cost...


Oh, and you were suggesting the command squad + DA/BT conversion kits for making regular Grey Knights? Interesting... I've never seen regular GKs in stores... only the 55 dollar Termy kit. I've seen the conversion kits for 18 dollars, and the Command squad for about 30... Hm.



Gimme some AoBR termies, some tabard bits or green stuff, some plasticard, various weapon bitz, and a lot of time and patience, and I can probably make 'em look cool enough to justify Counts As.

[Cheesegear]

How effective would an allied Termy squad be for the Imperial Guard, anyway? I mean, they seem like they'd be a points sink, but the sheer amount of force and defense they probably wield might help make up for their cost...

GKTs in Imperial Guard rock like a Ducati. You should do it.
2 Grey Knights might cost as much an an upgraded Infantry Platoon, but, they're hard as nails, dish out a truckload of damage and there is nothing in the Imperial Guard army even remotely like them.

Ogryns have an unprinted upgrade;
For +6 points per model, upgrade all Ogryns to Grey Knight Terminators.

[Ninja Chocobo]

Hoo boy. Trying to reply to something someone else has in a quote box.

1. WYSIWYG is not quite as important as some people think. I was running an AoBR Warboss with a Slugga and Attack Squig for like ten games, and no-one complained, so long as I told them so beforehand.

2. No. Ideally you should be dropping them in the order of: 2, 7, 3, 6, 10, 1, 8, 4, 9, 5. Minimise points, maximise wound allocation and effective wargear. Waaagh! Banners, Dok's Tools, Power Klaws, and Bosspoles are v. good.

3. "One mob per army may be upgraded..."

4. Again, "This squad of Slugga Boyz is Shoota Boyz" should be sufficient outside of a tournament setting. But, my advice on this point is more a matter of opinion than the rest of it.

5. Wrong. For the points you're spending on Deffkoptas you could get nine Lootas, so that's a wound advantage gone. You should also be able to deploy them in area terrain with a 4+ save. If you can't, you don't have enough terrain. Defences roughly equal. Speed is a non-issue, too, since Lootas have a 48" range.

6. If you're willing to spend fifteen points on minutely upping the mobility of your Nobs why do you have them in a Trukk? A lucky Bolter shot could send it Kareening 18" back towards your deployment line. Trukks are far too fragile to upgrade, IMO. A Battlewagon with Deff Rolla is a much better transport.

[Myatar_Panwar]

3. "One mob per army may be upgraded..."
.

Right. ONly one squad per army can be 'Ard Boyz. I forgot about that...

And speaking of 'ard boyz, I made some! (and a prototype warboss biker)

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