Neverwinter Nights- Questions

[WorldWalker]

Soooo...

I'm new to Never Winter nights and have a few questions. As follows:

-What game/expansion am I playing if I start in "The Academy" and Aribeth is asking me to fix the wailing death/creature problem?

-In that game, what the hell good does "Subrace" do? I enter a sub race "Draconian" for example, and I can't add benefits or +/- abilities or modify it in any way. I'm just "Draconian". What the -hell- purpose would that serve? Why would I give up all the nifty abilities of the other races just for a title? Help.

-Second: I keep dying when I have any one other than a barbarian or a mage. Am I a bad player or is the game designed to punish anyone who can't summon a familiar/creature/henchman to his aid simultaneously OR whoop the crap out of enemies with a great axe. I feel I just may be poor at the systems game play.

-Also, since I'm new, what's the fastest way to get "Great Cleave" with a fighter type?

-Why can't I choose PrC's, or at least see the PrC's. Can you get them in the game I am discussing? Also, can you add in base classes like Dragonfire Adept or Warlock? Not possible?

-What's the best tactic you've found for the game? First few levels/character design?

-Is there anything else I -should- know? Any kinks/hits and misses on the game designers part that I can take advantage of?

-Best class for this game so far? Straight wizard/straight Barbarian? Is the monk just as useless in NWN as in ANY other D and D based game?

Thanks!

[Flickerdart]

1. You are playing the original campaign; don't.
2. It does nothing, far as I know.
3. The game expects you to hire a companion. Tomi Undergallows is pretty good at what he does. I generally go with Tomi when I'm not playing a Rogue.
4. Great Cleave sucks, but if you really want it, a regular Fighter can get it pretty fast with all his bonus feats. A Human Fighter can get it at 1st level, I think.
5. You can't add classes without mods. The original NWN doesn't have Prestige Classes, but the expansions add a few.
6. Never been very successful at the game, can't say.
7. Hordes of the Underdark is vastly superior to the original campaign, play that instead. The OC is pretty awful.
8. Wizard doesn't do as well as it does in PnP because most of the broken spells are gone.

[WorldWalker]

I already have Hordes of the Underdark...and one other...whatever that may be. Can I be really stupid and ask what the difference is/what changes? Do I still play the same quests as now but with upgraded abilities/weapons/choices/classes etc?

Hmmm Bugger about the Wizard being unbroken.

Why does great cleave suck? Any recommendations about what a good choice would be other than the cleave feat tree for a fighter?

Druid seemed to die pretty quick also.... When does he get shape shifting? Also I noticed a distinct lack of natural spell? Does it come when he gets wild shape?

[Kish]

The Natural Spell feat isn't in the 3.0ed Player's Handbook; I'm not going to bother to look it up in the 3.5ed one so I don't know if it's there, but no, it isn't in Neverwinter Nights at all.

Each expansion comes with a campaign, and each changes the rules of the game some. If you want prestige classes, you'll need to install Shadows of Undrentide and/or Hordes of the Underdark; if you want the latest patch, you'll need to install both; and I can't think of any reason you wouldn't want to install both. You can play the campaign that came with the basic game (commonly called the OC, for Original or Official Campaign), the Shadows of Undrentide campaign, and the Hordes of the Underdark campaign all with all three installed. (The OC and Shadows of Undrentide are designed for first-level characters to start; Hordes of the Underdark is designed for a character who completed Shadows of Undrentide already.)

Tomi's a vile little humanoid cockroach, if that matters to you.

[Flickerdart]

Hordes of the Underdark has its own campaign, and also gives you more race and class options. Shadows of Undrentide does as well, but HotU goes into Epic levels.

Druids get Wildshape at level 5, I don't believe that Natural Spell existed in 3E. If you want the 3.5 ruleset, you want Neverwinter Nights 2.

[WorldWalker]

Thanks guys. Luckily I bought the set that comes with shadows and hordes so that's good. I'll install both tonight.

Looking forward to trying out the new classes.

Any suggestions on best routes for both Arcane and Fighter tracks seperately?

Bugger about there being no natural spell!!!

[Asheram]

By the way, if you want hordes of the underdark, you might want to play through the original campaign, as it'll reference a bit...

And joy! You get to play alongside Deekin with Shadows of Undertide! The most awesome and useless little fellow around. :D

[WorldWalker]

By the way, if you want hordes of the underdark, you might want to play through the original campaign, as it'll reference a bit...

And joy! You get to play alongside Deekin with Shadows of Undertide! The most awesome and useless little fellow around. :D

Wtf is Deekin? lol. Hmmm maybe I should play through the original campaign. I've started like 20 new characters and I can't think of the best one to take through yet. They keep dying when surrounded by enemies. (Bar Barbarian with Parry/Greataxe, and Mage with Familiar/Summon Creature/Tommy).

[Cheesegear]

-What game/expansion am I playing if I start in "The Academy" and Aribeth is asking me to fix the wailing death/creature problem?

...You're playing the Original Campaign.

- In that game, what the hell good does "Subrace" do?

As far a I know; it does nothing.

Is the game designed to punish anyone who can't summon a familiar/creature/henchman to his aid simultaneously OR whoop the crap out of enemies with a great axe?

Yes. Yes it is. As a Combat RPG the primary way to win is to hit things with your stick. Fighter/Paladins and Fighter/Barbarians can, and will simply plow through the game pretty easily on their own. Especially since almost any locked chest can be opened with elemental damage weapons.

Also, since I'm new, what's the fastest way to get "Great Cleave" with a fighter type?

You need Shadows of Undrentide or Hordes of the Underdark. Great Cleave is not in the original game.

BAB 4+, STR 13+, Power Attack => Cleave => Great Cleave. The quickest you can get it is Fighter Level 4, or Barbarian 6.

Why can't I choose PrC's, or at least see the PrC's. Can you get them in the game I am discussing?

The PrCs were added on in the expansions. They're greyed out because either you have the most recent patch without the actual expansions, or, if you do, you don't meet the minimum requirements to get into said class. Or both.

Also, can you add in base classes like Dragonfire Adept or Warlock? Not possible?

You can with the Community Expansion Pack (CEP). Google it.

What's the best tactic you've found for the game? First few levels/character design?

Lawful Good Beaters have the easiest time. Without the expansion packs (and the PrCs therin); a Greatsword Fighter 4 / Paladin X does reasonably well.

Is there anything else I -should- know? Any kinks/hits and misses on the game designers part that I can take advantage of?

XP Gain is based on your BAB and how many followers you have. A wizard that has no followers and never summons things to fight for him will gain XP very rapidly. But, will also fight very slowly and you may find that this takes a while.
The higher your BAB, the less XP you get. Wizards get lots of XP, Fighters get less.
Every follower you have - including summoned creatures and animal companions/familiars - reduces your XP gain.

You can rest (almost) whenever you want.

Cleave is probably the best feat ever. Great Cleave is...Less good because it doesn't really scale. Since at higher levels your enemies will have more hit points.

Best class for this game so far? Straight wizard/straight Barbarian? Is the monk just as useless in NWN as in ANY other D and D based game?

Best class is still the Wizard and the Cleric. Although they do take a while to get used to and the casting system in NWN is fiddly when you get to higher levels and have that many spells. And due to the fact that you can rest pretty much whenever you want, spell retention isn't really an issue.

Monks are not useless. And look pretty cool doing it.

[Matar]

And joy! You get to play alongside Deekin with Shadows of Undertide! The most awesome and useless little fellow around. :D

I LOVE DEEKIN!

A few facts about NwN that I know about.

1: Gish's are fecking awesome.
2: Monks are god like when made correctly.
3: The Sorc Class freaking sucks.
4: Bard suck as well, but can be salvaged.
5: Play with the PRC, but never use the newer stuff. It will always be buggy at first.
6: Humans are the best race, bar none.
7: The Bigby spells, along with the IGMM are the best freaking spells out there.
8: Epic spells suck ass.

[WorldWalker]

Fun fun.

Straight beater it is.

When I add the expansions, what's the best PrC to hit after taking a Barbarian or Fighter?

How on earth could a Wizard survive WITHOUT summoning anything or having a henchman? I get the crap kicked out of me with a thief doing constant sneak attack damage, let alone a wizard who takes 4 hits to die. lol.

CEP expansion pack. Done. Thanks!

[WorldWalker]

I LOVE DEEKIN!

A few facts about NwN that I know about.

1: Gish's are fecking awesome.
2: Monks are god like when made correctly.
3: The Sorc Class freaking sucks.
4: Bard suck as well, but can be salvaged.
5: Play with the PRC, but never use the newer stuff. It will always be buggy at first.
6: Humans are the best race, bar none.
7: The Bigby spells, along with the IGMM are the best freaking spells out there.
8: Epic spells suck ass.

1 Gish?
2 Explain made correctly, as I love the -idea- of a monk, however I've always seen them suck compared to other classes.
3 I agree
4 Can they? Seriously though?
5 which PRC in particular?
6 I concur, that extra feat and extra skills are top notch
7 So you suggest playing with a wizard then or....?
8. Why? :-(

[Cheesegear]

When I add the expansions, what's the best PrC to hit after taking a Barbarian or Fighter?

'Best' for the game appears to be
Fighter 4 / Bard 1 / Red Dragon Disciple 10 / Weapon Master 5
Make sure you max Lore as a Fighter or you wont get into RDD at level 6.

How on earth could a Wizard survive WITHOUT summoning anything or having a henchman?

Fairly easily if you do it right because of rapid XP gain equals faster levels equals better spells equals everyone's dead. The only issue is the beginning at level 1 only having a light crossbow. If you can get past that, the rest of the game should be easy.

CEP expansion pack.

Community Expansion Pack Expansion Pack?

[Asheram]

1 Gish?
2 Explain made correctly, as I love the -idea- of a monk, however I've always seen them suck compared to other classes.
3 I agree
4 Can they? Seriously though?
5 which PRC in particular?
6 I concur, that extra feat and extra skills are top notch
7 So you suggest playing with a wizard then or....?
8. Why? :-(

1 Gish. = Spellcaster/melee. Fighter 10/ Wizard 10 Works surprisingly well in NWN.

And. Deekin is a bit like Rodney McKay from Stargate Atlantis. Either you Hate him with a passion, or you worship the very ground he walks.

[WorldWalker]

'Best' for the game appears to be
Fighter 4 / Bard 1 / Red Dragon Disciple 10 / Weapon Master 5
Make sure you max Lore as a Fighter or you wont get into RDD at level 6.



Fairly easily if you do it right. The only issue is the beginning at level 1 only having a light crossbow. If you can get past that, the rest of the game should be easy.



Community Expansion Pack Expansion Pack?

BAHAHA!! Face palm. CEP it is**

Yeah I noticed the wizard sucking quite hard with that crossbow, and playing NWN really makes me miss Shadows of Amn magic missile awesomeness. It hit so hard.

Gish actually works? Don't you miss the lost spell levels? Fighter doesn't really lose much multiclassing to wizard....but wizard loses those awesome later level spells?

Also....Cheesegear? Bard 1 I take is necessary for the full awesomeness of that build? Otherwise it bites hard or I can't get into class? As I've never been fond of bardyness. lol

[Matar]

1 Gish?

A melee caster class. Like, a wizard with a sword or a Cleric. They are -gods-.

2 Explain made correctly, as I love the -idea- of a monk, however I've always seen them suck compared to other classes.

I've only seen them made correctly, I've never actually done it myself. However, I know for a fact that it can be done. I'll do some googling and see if I can find a guide.

3 I agree

Indeed.

4 Can they? Seriously though?

Iiii play with the PRC. With that I know they can. Without it, I'm not too sure. You will never be the strongest class of course, but you can do some kickass things.

5 which PRC in particular?

This one.

6 I concur, that extra feat and extra skills are top notch

Also, Half Orcs suck. NEVER PICK THEM. Dwarves are freaking awesome though.

7 So you suggest playing with a wizard then or....?

They are easy to mess up, but yeah. I do suggest playing a Wizard. Druids as well. Really, any caster class besides Sorc. They are all really fun.

8. Why? :-(

Because Epic spells without the PRC are just feats, that's all. And summons suck ass =/.

1 Gish. = Spellcaster/melee. Fighter 10/ Wizard 10 Works surprisingly well in NWN.

It's better to just go pure Wizard, honestly.

[Cheesegear]

Also....Cheesegear? Bard 1 I take is necessary for the full awesomeness of that build? Otherwise it bites hard or I can't get into class? As I've never been fond of bardyness. lol

Red Dragon Disciple; Requires Bard or Sorcerer. Yes. 1 Bard level is integral to the build. Still, it's only one level. And you should have 4 levels of Fighter to fall back on.

Bard is better simply because you get bard song.

This is not the PnP game. Wizards aren't that good. And Fighters and Monks can - and will - waltz through the game. Monks are useful having like, 10 attacks with the right build and some decent magic kamas (which are everywhere). And there's nothing wrong with Bards.

[Matar]

This is not the PnP game. Wizards aren't that good. And Fighters can, and will, waltz through the game. Monks are useful having like, 10 attacks with the right build and some decent magic kamas (which are everywhere). And there's nothing wrong with Bards.

Nine. NwN has an attack cap of nine.

Let me see... A pure monk has 15 BaB by 20, so that's three attacks per round. Double that with maxed out two-weapon fighting... so you have six. One more from flurry, so seven.

Uh, I'm forgetting something I think.

[WorldWalker]

Red Dragon Disciple; Requires Bard or Sorcerer. Yes. 1 Bard level is integral to the build. Still, it's only one level. And you should have 4 levels of Fighter to fall back on.

Bard is better simply because you get bard song.

This is not the PnP game. Wizards aren't that good. And Fighters can, and will, waltz through the game. Monks are useful having like, 10 attacks with the right build and some decent magic kamas (which are everywhere). And there's nothing wrong with Bards.

And that's achievable with Shadows and Hordes? I think I'll try it. 10 attacks doesn't sound too bad. But I am NOT a good optimizer so I might just leave that alone I think.

[WorldWalker]

Nine. NwN has an attack cap of nine.

Let me see... A pure monk has 15 BaB by 20, so that's three attacks per round. Double that with maxed out two-weapon fighting... so you have six. One more from flurry, so seven.

Uh, I'm forgetting something I think.

But with such a low BAB....is it plausible? Even having that many attacks?

[Cheesegear]

Nine. NwN has an attack cap of nine.

Let me see... A pure monk has 15 BaB by 20, so that's three attacks per round.

Double that with maxed out two-weapon fighting... so you have six. One more from flurry, so seven.

Uh, I'm forgetting something I think.

You are...A pure monk has five attacks by level 20.

But with such a low BAB....is it plausible? Even having that many attacks?

I keep telling you. This isn't PnP. BAB is easy to get. Magic Items litter the ground like grass.

[Matar]

But with such a low BAB....is it plausible? Even having that many attacks?

15 BaB by 20 means three attacks. Two Weapon Fighting doubles that if you get all the feats for it. Flurry adds +1 attack to that when using a Kama or being Unarmed (Use a Kama, of course).

So... yeah.

You are...A pure monk has five attacks by level 20.

Wat. You start with one, gain another by level 6, gain another at 12, and another at 18.

[Cheesegear]

15 BaB by 20 means three attacks.

Five for a monk.

[Matar]

Five for a monk.

How so? Are Monks different then other classes or something? I admit, I never messed with them myself, but...

Magic Items litter the ground like grass.

What magic items boost BaB? I know the Cleric has a spell that does, along with Tensars if you use the PRC. But other then that...

[WorldWalker]

Five for a monk.

Either way, you've all been a huge kick ass help. I'm going to install Hordes and Shadows as soon as I'm home.

[Shyftir]

Don't play a fighter/rogue/weapons master in the OC, you stand no chance against the end game, three friggin UNDEAD dragons at once!, You have any clue how hard it is to hurt Undead Dragons with a heavy crit build?

That being said, Shadows of Undrentide is really fun, I played Fighter/Sorc/Arcane Archer had no serious problems, I love Deekin.

[Matar]

Oh hey, if you ever wanna play online I'm willing to give it a whirl. I've been meaning to play some Endless Nights for a long time now.

Just in case...

Endless Nights

Newest PRC.

And the CEP that you need for it.

So... yeah.

fighter/rogue/weapons master

I take it you used a Sythe? 'Cause that would be scary as all hell.

[Douglas]

You are...A pure monk has five attacks by level 20.

A Fighter 4/Monk 16 has six attacks. NWN is based on 3.0 rules, remember, where Monk unarmed attacks went down by 3 instead of 5. 16/13/10/7/4/1, and kamas use the same progression. Add Haste, Flurry, and Improved TWF and you get the maximum of 10 attacks per round.

Due to Monk-specific magic items, the general nature of the game's design, and some of the bonus stuff Monks get, Monk is actually a very good class in NWN. Take four levels of Fighter for that extra attack and Weapon Specialization (yes, it's worth it in the NWN version of D&D), and you can end up with a very powerful character. Not as powerful as the strength focused Devastating Critical Weapon Master build with a Keen scimitar or rapier (the AC from a shield does matter at high levels in this game) doing 10-20/x3 crits with a save or die attached, but still quite powerful.

[Cheesegear]

How so? Are Monks different then other classes or something?

Yes. Yes they are.

What magic items boost BaB? I know the Cleric has a spell that does, along with Tensars if you use the PRC.

+STR (or DEX if Finessing) items, +X kamas, etc.

Oops. Sorry everyone. I cracked open my save file; I remember how I did it.

Ranger 4 / Monk 16

Ranger for free TWFing and a couple of stealth points. Rather than fighter.

BAB 16 for four attacks. Crazy Unarmed Monk for +2 attacks at UBAB 16.
Off-hand kama for +1 = 7 attacks
Improved two-weapon fighting = 8 attacks
Flurry = 9 attacks
Haste effect (I like the boots) = 10 attacks. That's the cap.

Said Ranger/Monk also has an AC on par with Fighters.

[Matar]

A Fighter 4/Monk 16 has six attacks. NWN is based on 3.0 rules, remember, where Monk unarmed attacks went down by 3 instead of 5. 16/13/10/7/4/1, and kamas use the same progression. Add Haste, Flurry, and Improved TWF and you get the maximum of 10 attacks per round.

Haste! Aha, I forgot haste! That makes for... eight attacks.

I am so lost. Am I missing something about being a Monk? .__.

Due to Monk-specific magic items, the general nature of the game's design, and some of the bonus stuff Monks get, Monk is actually a very good class in NWN. Take four levels of Fighter for that extra attack and Weapon Specialization (yes, it's worth it in the NWN version of D&D), and you can end up with a very powerful character. Not as powerful as the strength focused Devastating Critical Weapon Master build with a Keen scimitar or rapier (the AC from a shield does matter at high levels in this game) doing 10-20/x3 crits with a save or die attached, but still quite powerful.

Devastating Crit is insane. >_>.