Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

[Gruffard]

Put him on a big base, and toss a guy carrying ammo for him and it works :-P

He just so cool that he can wield an autocannon without stand, and his lacky carries all his crap cause he so awesome.

Neat idea. Keet it.

[onasuma]

So, wrote a contempary list for my daemons. Id appreciate critisisms.

Spoiler

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K'Tarmac - Bloodthirster with unholy might (270)
Rea'An - Slaaneshi Herald in Chariot with Unholy might, soporific musk and Icon of Chaos (115)
Sephen'Jo - Slaaneshi Herald in Chariot with Unholy might, soporific musk and Icon of Chaos (115)
Burbles and Squeeks - 7 nurgling swarms (91)
Sisters Aflame - 8 Daemonettes, full command (147)
The Fatguys - 5 Plaguebearers, full command (115)
Angry young men - 6 Bloodletters, champion (106)
Ha'Sas - Soulgrinder, mawcannon with tongue and phelm (185)
Grin'Dle - Soulgrinder, mawcannon with tongue and phelm (185)
Saff'Oy - Daemon Prince, wings, Boon of mutation (170)

Now the first thing I expect people to say is "Get more troops." I concur, but this is what I get for wanting to squeeze in as many giant things as I can while still using 3 Gods represented. Im planning on doubling, if not trippling the number of daemonettes and waiting on plastic plaguebearers before I make more of them.

Anyhoo, anyone want to tell me how bad I am at writing lists?

[MountainKing]

Or, y'know, if all you care about is close combat and you not being able to shoot at the enemy is utterly irrelevant to you because you don't even have anything to shoot with.

And for the record, if a Tyranid player modeled all his Genestealers to be lying flat on the ground to be more difficult to be seen, I would most definitely consider that abuse. Pretty extreme abuse, even.

Exactly! Those are perfect examples. I'm sure you can find plenty of Barrage type weapons that you can abuse as well. Who needs LOS when you can blow up everything without seeing it?

[Incomp]

So, wrote a contempary list for my daemons. Id appreciate critisisms.

Spoiler

Show

K'Tarmac - Bloodthirster with unholy might (270)
Rea'An - Slaaneshi Herald in Chariot with Unholy might, soporific musk and Icon of Chaos (115)
Sephen'Jo - Slaaneshi Herald in Chariot with Unholy might, soporific musk and Icon of Chaos (115)
Burbles and Squeeks - 7 nurgling swarms (91)
Sisters Aflame - 8 Daemonettes, full command (147)
The Fatguys - 5 Plaguebearers, full command (115)
Angry young men - 6 Bloodletters, champion (106)
Ha'Sas - Soulgrinder, mawcannon with tongue and phelm (185)
Grin'Dle - Soulgrinder, mawcannon with tongue and phelm (185)
Saff'Oy - Daemon Prince, wings, Boon of mutation (170)

Now the first thing I expect people to say is "Get more troops." I concur, but this is what I get for wanting to squeeze in as many giant things as I can while still using 3 Gods represented. Im planning on doubling, if not trippling the number of daemonettes and waiting on plastic plaguebearers before I make more of them.

Anyhoo, anyone want to tell me how bad I am at writing lists?

You took the words right out of my mouth: Needs moar troops, needs less giant angry things.

I would recommend removing tongue from the soul grinders; that'll get you more desperately needed lesser daemons, and think about losing phlegm as well. In fact, I would recommend losing one of the two soul grinders entirely. This is because, point for point, in Daemons, (if not in all codices) your troops are much killier than your heavy support. By a lot. You do need anti tank, but you don't need 2 monstrous creatures and 2 walkers in a 1000 point army. That's ludicrous. Get more troops, by the way.

I know bloodthirsters are awesome, but I would downgrade him to a herald on a juggernaut. Those, with a few bloodletters as backup, will kill almost everything in close combat. Also, you need more troops.

As for your slaaneshi herald, I would say get rid of the chariot (chariots remove the independent character rule), slap her on a steed, and get her in a squad of seekers. (Or, even better, fiends. Fiends are awesome.) Your HQ's are almost as vulnerable as your basic troops, (which you need more of) and tend to die hard on their own.

I know tzeentch isn't on the list, but think about getting Flamers anyway. They're that awesome. Almost as good as moar troops.

You need more troops, because Daemons are fragile. Really fragile. I know, you have plaguebearers, right? Whatever, you have five plaguebearers. That's nothing. The rest of your troops choices (critical in 5th edition, if not always) are scarcely any bigger, and much less durable. Look, as an example, in my 1000 point daemons army, I take 20 bloodletters, and by the end of turn two, most of them are dead. Your enemy is going to eat those three easy kill points for breakfast, and then leave you with nothing to take objectives.

I would recommend losing the daemon prince, in order to buy more troops.

[Klose_the_Sith]

TLOS is seriously the worst thing to happen to any wargame.

The idea of 'Guess' weapons bothers me a lot more, but TLOS is pretty bad ...

[Siosilvar]

Wow this thread moves fast. So this is from two pages ago:

-commander stuff-

Good points. I didn't see that there was an Initiative test there.

The Crisis Suits are kind of funky. Getting into Flamer range safely isn't exactly easy, and frankly there are better primary weapons for your Crisis Suits. I think you'll find you're served far better by using Missile Pods with your Burst Cannons instead.

That is true, but JSJ works, and flamers ignore cover saves, so...

Drop the Photon Grenades from the Carbinewarrior team. Photons are really bad, without exception; You have to understand, you will lose every combat that the enemy initiates. Tau simply cannot stand up to anything in a remotely fair fight, so all the Grenades do is increase the likelyhood that the fight drags on for a second turn, which is actively disadvantageous for you.

If the fight drags on, then I don't have to worry about them until they finish of the FWs... and you can't consolidate into enemy units, so that gives me ano... wait a minute. If it does take two turns... the first one is on theirs, then on mine. If the FWs get killed on my turn I won't get a chance to move away before my opponent's next Assault phase, will I?

The Broadside is massively overgeared; dropping the Team Leader, Multitracker and Targetting Array saves you 20 points, which can be better used elsewhere. I'd also consider dropping one of the two Drones, though that's up to you.

In the short list that's my only anti-armor, though. If the Missile Pods (from any unit) are dealing with MEQs, then they can't be shooting at vehicles.

The 6 man team doesn't need a 'Ui or a Knife; frankly, if it takes any damage at all it's probably going to get wiped out or made irrelevent.

True, but... hmm, I'll check how many points I have and get back to you on that.

[onasuma]

So drop the bloodletters in favour of beasts of nurgle. Gotcha.


Way more seriously, the major reason for the tiny amount of troops here is because the games at a GW - Ive got alot of plaguebearers from other systems which I would normally use - so many of my models are disallowed.

Other stuff - Chariots have SUCH a nice stat line though, for a tiny amount of points. Im not really using them as HQ's - daemons dont really need them - more as fast attack choices. Potential 24" move, so I can place them somewhere safe then charge off into some squishy troops. For now, they do seem to be making up a unit of troops as one model.

Tzeetch isnt getting in here - This is a ~6k Nurgle army, it has some other contingents, but Nurgle is the boss. I am tempted to convert some vomiting beareres to do counts as though....

Also - BLOODTHIRSTER

[Incomp]

So drop the bloodletters in favour of beasts of nurgle. Gotcha.

*Scratches head.* That one went above my head. (I happen to dislike beasts, BTW)

Way more seriously, the major reason for the tiny amount of troops here is because the games at a GW - Ive got alot of plaguebearers from other systems which I would normally use - so many of my models are disallowed.

Well. Go buy more troops.

Other stuff - Chariots have SUCH a nice stat line though, for a tiny amount of points. Im not really using them as HQ's - daemons dont really need them - more as fast attack choices. Potential 24" move, so I can place them somewhere safe then charge off into some squishy troops. For now, they do seem to be making up a unit of troops as one model.

Checking my codex, I do see Slaaneshi chariots ARE in fact awesome. I rescind my advice on those. Go ahead and take one, maybe 2.

Tzeetch isnt getting in here - This is a ~6k Nurgle army, it has some other contingents, but Nurgle is the boss. I am tempted to convert some vomiting beareres to do counts as though....

Your loss. Flamers are awesome. Screamers and horrors are both really good.

Also - BLOODTHIRSTER

Bloodthirster...eh. I tend to find they're unspectacular for the huge chunk of points they cost. Have you ever heard of the phrase "Bullet Magnet?" If you have to have a greater daemon, (Which should be a great unclean one, since Nurgle is the boss, right?) then get rid of two of your other big choices. You really need the extra troops.

By the way, when you say "Full command" what does that mean? Icon and musician? Plus the silly crap upgrades? (a single bloodletter does NOT need rending.) I've never had musicians matter, and icons are pretty expensive, as good as they are. Consider losing them for more troops, but that's not a certainty.

[Arcanoi]

I find that all of the Slaaneshi models in the DoC Codex are sort of terrifying. Each model dishes out a massive amount of Rending attacks, and is either fleet, beasts, or cavalry, with high initiative. I still don't really like Daemonettes over Bloodletters though. Bloodletters are just horrendous if they get the charge.

I was thinking about trying to get a proxy game going with a list that looked something like this.

Spoiler

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HQ

Skulltaker - 160pts
- Chariot

Herald of Slaanesh - 75pts
- Chariot
- Unholy Might

Herald of Slaanesh - 75pts
- Chariot
- Unholy Might

Herald of Slaanesh - 75pts
- Chariot
- Unholy Might

Troops

Bloodletters x8 - 128pts

Bloodletters x7 - 112pts

Bloodletters x7 - 112pts

Fast Attack

Seekers x5 - 85pts

Seekers x5 - 85pts

Seelers x5 - 85pts

Total - 992 pts

Pretty goddamn cheesy with a whole bunch of fleet Cavalry, and then Skulltaker and Bloodletters along for the ride.

[DaedalusMkV]

Wow this thread moves fast. So this is from two pages ago:

That is true, but JSJ works, and flamers ignore cover saves, so...

You know what's even better than using JSJ to get into Flamer range? Using JSJ to keep out of Assault/Melta/Rapid Fire range.

If the fight drags on, then I don't have to worry about them until they finish of the FWs... and you can't consolidate into enemy units, so that gives me ano... wait a minute. If it does take two turns... the first one is on theirs, then on mine. If the FWs get killed on my turn I won't get a chance to move away before my opponent's next Assault phase, will I?

You will still get a chance to move away no matter whose turn the fight ends on, but when it ends on your turn you have no chance to shoot the assaulting enemy. If it ends immediately, however, you can murderize the enemy with your brutal Rapid Fire assaults, and possibly even Pin them with your Carbines. In either case, you never want a fight to go on for more than one turn. Everything you have would rather have the improved shooting options.

In the short list that's my only anti-armor, though. If the Missile Pods (from any unit) are dealing with MEQs, then they can't be shooting at vehicles.

If you were to follow all of the stuff-dropping advice I gave, then dropped two Fire Warriors you could afford a second Broadside. Just something to think about. With the Tau, you want to keep upgrades only to exactly what you need, and put a heavy focus on getting models on the board.

[Incomp]

I find that all of the Slaaneshi models in the DoC Codex are sort of terrifying. Each model dishes out a massive amount of Rending attacks, and is either fleet, beasts, or cavalry, with high initiative. I still don't really like Daemonettes over Bloodletters though. Bloodletters are just horrendous if they get the charge.

I was thinking about trying to get a proxy game going with a list that looked something like this.

Spoiler

Show

HQ

Skulltaker - 160pts
- Chariot

Herald of Slaanesh - 75pts
- Chariot
- Unholy Might

Herald of Slaanesh - 75pts
- Chariot
- Unholy Might

Herald of Slaanesh - 75pts
- Chariot
- Unholy Might

Troops

Bloodletters x8 - 128pts

Bloodletters x7 - 112pts

Bloodletters x7 - 112pts

Fast Attack

Seekers x5 - 85pts

Seekers x5 - 85pts

Seelers x5 - 85pts

Total - 992 pts

Pretty goddamn cheesy with a whole bunch of fleet Cavalry, and then Skulltaker and Bloodletters along for the ride.

Cheesy indeed. I know it's not a serious list, but I can't help myself from commenting.

Needs moar troops. :D

You're gonna have a hard time wrecking tanks, and particularly walkers. Skulltaker only goes so far in this case.

But yeah, I still wouldn't care to fight that.

[crazedloon]

it could be worse (better) if the troops where deamonettes which also have fleet as well as more attacks. VS MeQ they are not as reliably devastating (lacking the power weapons) but their volume and speed more than make up for that. VS tanks they have rending which is arguably better than furious charge vs Tanks. Also with the saved point you get 2 more of them

[Cheesegear]

Because even if it is only a slight change in mold it can effect LoS. Or worse forge world models are outright illegal.

TLoS is one of the most able-to-be-broken rule in the game (Oslecamo posted a list of how from Dakka or *chan or something).

I've said it before and I'll say it again.
I'm never going to Queensland.

It's talk like this that just makes me think that all you blokes down south are just soft.

Also to make sure I am not talking out my rear end I gave the main rules a quick skim and saw nothing on this "LoS rule" which seems to support the fact it is some local shenanigans

Page 16. In the box. True Line of Sight.

TLOS is seriously the worst thing to happen to any wargame.

True. I believe Oslecamo posted an entire list of how can break the game just by how you model your models. No list-breaking. No turn-stalling. No b0rked dice. Just with your actual models, you can break the game.

TSoaLR did a few strips playing with this (and a lot of other things that happen in Tournaments and the rules in general). I remember one where the Sergeant was 'shot in the banner'...
The Vanguard models are the worst, as they come with scenic bases that make them larger than they should be.

Cheese's local scene is craAaAazy. We've established this.

Anyway, I actually went down to the store, and I made sure I got something straight;

The Tyranids issue, happened at a tournament, 150kms away from where I live. It has nothing to do with my store or meta-game. The Blackshirt from my store rang one of the grand poobah TOs down in Brisbane to ask what the issue is.

Two players were playing a game. One was playing Tyranids, and had a whole heap of old models mixed in with a lot of new ones. Anyway, the opposing player called over the TO, and said that if his opponent's models had been current models (i.e; Bigger models), he be able to see them, and shoot them. However, the True LoS rule - being crap - meant that he couldn't see the small models, and that old models (especially ones that are out of print) shouldn't be allowed if they aren't the same size as the official, newer models.

It made sense to the TO since the same size-equivalency ruling is applied to 'Count As' models. Since he was a big shot in the GW scheme of things, the ruling went down the grapevine.

NO! Not all new recasts make every old model illegal. Just some of them. Second, this ruling (like another one) only goes one way. If you want your models larger (putting you at a disadvantage) than the standard, then that's your problem. ForgeWorld models are legit.

[crazedloon]

From the sounds of that last story it seems it was a foolish TO pampering a prissy player who was upset by reasonable use of terrain and a player who has collected more than the most recent codex. It is unreasonable to expect every player to update their entire army when a new range comes out but that seems to be the way your locals expect people to play.

As for LoS I realize how it works but that box has nothing to do with models (which are and which are not, indeed the only text on the subject involves the basis)

if you wouldn't mind (since you recall the list or where it is) mind posting the link to this "broken list"

As for the shooting the banner that is just people not reading the rules. Guns, and decoration do not effect line of sight. You have to see arm, legs, head, or body in order to have LoS.

edit: to address yours

But from what you say using legit parts (kneeling legs as per my example) is illegal though they are all GW currently made parts. So what is the size range you have to stick to and who gets to decide? from the sounds of it whoever complains the most is who gets to decide which is a little silly.

[hamishspence]

Cheesy indeed. I know it's not a serious list, but I can't help myself from commenting.

Needs moar troops. :D

You're gonna have a hard time wrecking tanks, and particularly walkers. Skulltaker only goes so far in this case.

But yeah, I still wouldn't care to fight that.

The fact that Khorne really hates Slaanesh might come into play.

Still, you could excuse it by

"Skulltaker has decided that the best way to destroy Slaaneshi daemons is to take command of them and lead them into the meat grinder of war."

Same might apply to putting Kharn the Betrayer in a squad of marines with a Slaanesh icon. If you're "The Betrayer" you might as well betray people you really hate anyway.

[Cheesegear]

It is unreasonable to expect every player to update their entire army when a new range comes out but that seems to be the way your locals expect people to play.

Not my locals. Happened 150kms away. The ruling just hit us too.

Besides, I don't see why people care so much. It's not like you have any illegal models at the moment, right?

if you wouldn't mind (since you recall the list or where it is) mind posting the link to this "broken list"

I don't recall either of those things. I said Oslecamo posted it, and I'm pretty sure he didn't come up with it himself, and it sounded like something they'd post on Dakka, or definitely out of *chan.

My favourite though, "Ranges [from vehicles] are measured from the muzzle of the firing weapon." Page 56.
Ergo; Model your gun as long as you want. Reap the rewards.

However, like the Tippyverse, the 'broken modelling' list is dependent on there being no TO about, or that your opponent wont punch you in the face for following the rules exactly.

But from what you say using legit parts (kneeling legs as per my example) is illegal though they are all GW currently made parts.

That's not what I said. Kneeling legs are A-OK. You're just not allowed to make a whole unit/army out of them. Which is what I said.

So what is the size range you have to stick to and who gets to decide?

Find the current model, that's the size you should stick to. The TO, or whoever is in charge of the game decides.

However, there are cases where the thing you want doesn't have a model. Such as the Harpy, Tervigon and Tyrannofex. Since they have the rule Monstrous Creature, they should at least look the part.

[crazedloon]

but what exactly makes the kneeling legs illegal is the question. From the sound of it, its just an arbitrarily decision. At what point must you stop using a pose or piece? Can the whole Command squad use those knees since its part of the sprue but nothing else? Snipers in Guard come in the laying down verity, does that mean my non snipers can also lay down?

Its seems rather arbitrary and ridiculous, particularly if you are using legit GW models. The abuses (now that you mention the gun I vaguely recall the list) that you are referring to tend to require some heavy conversion and non-GW parts so almost have a leg to stand on for being illegal.

And indeed by that sort of ruling I have illegal models including older style marines, older style rhinos, older style ork bike (they are smaller than the new ones) and with a little luck in a few months my entire DE list will be illegal (.... ok that is me just hoping but the second they get a new codex they will have a new range of models which will make my entire army illegal by this sort of ruling.)

[dsmiles]

but what exactly makes the kneeling legs illegal is the question. From the sound of it, its just an arbitrarily decision. At what point must you stop using a pose or piece? Can the whole Command squad use those knees since its part of the sprue but nothing else? Snipers in Guard come in the laying down verity, does that mean my non snipers can also lay down?

Its seems rather arbitrary and ridiculous, particularly if you are using legit GW models. The abuses (now that you mention the gun I vaguely recall the list) that you are referring to tend to require some heavy conversion and non-GW parts so almost have a leg to stand on for being illegal.

And indeed by that sort of ruling I have illegal models including older style marines, older style rhinos, older style ork bike (they are smaller than the new ones) and with a little luck in a few months my entire DE list will be illegal (.... ok that is me just hoping but the second they get a new codex they will have a new range of models which will make my entire army illegal by this sort of ruling.)

I, too, have this question. The Tau FW sprue comes with kneeling legs, and one of the pathfinder snipers is lying down, another is kneeling. These are the current GW models (unless they came out with plastic rail-riflemen in the past few hours), why can't my entire FW squad kneel if the parts are there?

[Ninja Chocobo]

It's talk like this that just makes me think that all you blokes down south are just soft.

Not soft, just not insane.

The Tyranids issue, happened at a tournament, 150kms away from where I live. It has nothing to do with my store or meta-game. The Blackshirt from my store rang one of the grand poobah TOs down in Brisbane to ask what the issue is.

We've still established your crazy local scene; you've told us many times about how your Bike Captain catches a lot of flak for having a Relic Blade that looks kinda-sorta like a Lightning Claw-ish.

The fact that this trend continues so far away from you simply means that we can extend this insanity to the entirety of Queensland.
(craAaAaAaAazy.)

[onasuma]

*Scratches head.* That one went above my head. (I happen to dislike beasts, BTW)

Internet humour.

Well. Go buy more troops.

Fine.

Checking my codex, I do see Slaaneshi chariots ARE in fact awesome. I rescind my advice on those. Go ahead and take one, maybe 2.

I am taking 2 already.

Your loss. Flamers are awesome. Screamers and horrors are both really good.

Fluff is just as important as stat lines.

Bloodthirster...eh. I tend to find they're unspectacular for the huge chunk of points they cost. Have you ever heard of the phrase "Bullet Magnet?" If you have to have a greater daemon, (Which should be a great unclean one, since Nurgle is the boss, right?) then get rid of two of your other big choices. You really need the extra troops.

My Great unclean one is non-GW approved, otherwise it would be. Background here is that the Daemon Prince is leading everyone, rather than him. He probably is a bit of a bullet magnet, but still, a bloodthirster comes with a strong reputation for being a huge pain to deal with. Id like to see how he does.

By the way, when you say "Full command" what does that mean? Icon and musician? Plus the silly crap upgrades? (a single bloodletter does NOT need rending.) I've never had musicians matter, and icons are pretty expensive, as good as they are. Consider losing them for more troops, but that's not a certainty.

Yeah, sorry, WHFB speak. Personally, I really like transfixing gaze and noxious touch although I may consider dropping the champion of the blood letters. Also, I always ran with the idea that icons are VERY important to a daemon army, so didnt mind springing for them.

[Cheesegear]

We've still established your crazy local scene; you've told us many times about how your Bike Captain catches a lot of flak for having a Relic Blade that looks kinda-sorta like a Lightning Claw-ish

When I make the next Falcon, he'll have the Wailing Doom as his Relic Blade. However, this does require buying the Avatar just for the sword, so, I'm putting it off for a while.

[banjo1985]

K'Tarmac - Bloodthirster with unholy might (270)
Rea'An - Slaaneshi Herald in Chariot with Unholy might, soporific musk and Icon of Chaos (115)
Sephen'Jo - Slaaneshi Herald in Chariot with Unholy might, soporific musk and Icon of Chaos (115)
Burbles and Squeeks - 7 nurgling swarms (91)
Sisters Aflame - 8 Daemonettes, full command (147)
The Fatguys - 5 Plaguebearers, full command (115)
Angry young men - 6 Bloodletters, champion (106)
Ha'Sas - Soulgrinder, mawcannon with tongue and phelm (185)
Grin'Dle - Soulgrinder, mawcannon with tongue and phelm (185)
Saff'Oy - Daemon Prince, wings, Boon of mutation (170)

Nurglings are good, me likey. They're nasty little blighters that can tie units down all day long if you don't deal with them quickly.
As everyone has said, the other Troops choices need boosting, 10 Plaguebearers, 10 Bloodletters and maybe 12-15 Daemonettes might be around right. You should be able to afford that by dropping the Prince and a Soul Grinder. Lots more bodies to kill, lots more attacks, and Troop choices that can probably survive more than a round of firing. With no Tzeentch in there, that's what you need so that at least something gets into assault to eat the enemies faces!

I'd also consider swapping the two chariot heralds for a unit of 10 seekers. I've been using them recently and the amount of rending attacks they can put out is terrifying and they've done more than pay their points back every game so far. Having said that I haven't used the chariots so I don't know how effective they actually are.

[Arcanoi]

Cheesy indeed. I know it's not a serious list, but I can't help myself from commenting.

Needs moar troops. :D

You're gonna have a hard time wrecking tanks, and particularly walkers. Skulltaker only goes so far in this case.

But yeah, I still wouldn't care to fight that.

Ohohoh. But at 1500 points...

Spoiler

Show

HQ

Skulltaker - 160pts
- Chariot

Herald of Slaanesh - 75pts
- Chariot
- Unholy Might

Herald of Slaanesh - 75pts
- Chariot
- Unholy Might

Herald of Slaanesh - 75pts
- Chariot
- Unholy Might

Troops

Bloodletters x8 - 128pts

Bloodletters x8 - 128pts

Bloodletters x8 - 128pts

Fast Attack

Seekers x7 - 102pts

Seekers x6 - 85pts

Seekers x6 - 85pts

Heavy Support

Soul Grinder - 135pts

Soul Grinder - 135pts

Soul Grinder - 135pts

Total - 1497pts

Who needs Fleet troops when you can have Fleet Ironclads?

[Ninja Chocobo]

When I make the next Falcon, he'll have the Wailing Doom as his Relic Blade. However, this does require buying the Avatar just for the sword, so, I'm putting it off for a while.

You're kinda missing my point, which was that nowhere in NSW would you ever be having this problem.

[dsmiles]

Probably wouldn't have that problem in America either. Most places I play at don't even use TLOS. The people I've been playing with use the WM LOS rules, which keeps pretty much all of the older models legal, as we know what size bases their newer counterparts are on.

[onasuma]

Nurglings are good, me likey. They're nasty little blighters that can tie units down all day long if you don't deal with them quickly.
As everyone has said, the other Troops choices need boosting, 10 Plaguebearers, 10 Bloodletters and maybe 12-15 Daemonettes might be around right. You should be able to afford that by dropping the Prince and a Soul Grinder. Lots more bodies to kill, lots more attacks, and Troop choices that can probably survive more than a round of firing. With no Tzeentch in there, that's what you need so that at least something gets into assault to eat the enemies faces!

I'd also consider swapping the two chariot heralds for a unit of 10 seekers. I've been using them recently and the amount of rending attacks they can put out is terrifying and they've done more than pay their points back every game so far. Having said that I haven't used the chariots so I don't know how effective they actually are.

Cant really do much bloodletter wise - cant bear the new models without a heap of conversion. Plaguebearers are stupidly overpriced as well, meaning I buy from elsewhere, which is fine until a GW game. Daemonettes however I shall be adding more of them soon.

Chariots are awesome. Just LOOK at the stat line. 65 points for it. Another 10 to make them strength 4 and you're away. Loads of attacks and wounds, acceptable save and rending.

[Ninja Chocobo]

Plaguebearers are stupidly overpriced as well, meaning I buy from elsewhere, which is fine until a GW game.

Just buy some Kroot and flick gobs of green stuff at 'em until they look suitably Nurgley.

[dsmiles]

Just buy some Kroot and flick gobs of green stuff at 'em until they look suitably Nurgley.

lol. plaguekroot are funny.

[Klose_the_Sith]

Just buy some Kroot and flick gobs of green stuff at 'em until they look suitably Nurgley.

It isn't as if many Tau players actually want their Kroot, after all

[dsmiles]

Blasphemy, sir! I could use those troop choices for fire warriors!