Warhammer 40K Tabletop X: "Everybody Expects The Inquisition!"

[Ninja Chocobo]

Considering you'll end up buying lots of boxes anyway...

Actually, I really wasn't. For the list I had written (for almost any list I would've written) I needed four things:

• Bolters
• Power Fists
• Missile Launchers
• Misc. Special Weapons

And some vehicles and such. Maybe an Assault Termy box for Storm Shields and a handful of THammers.
So, I'm kinda stuck.

[Tarinaky]

I honestly hadn't thought of that.

Nothing in the Tyranid list has higher than T6 however so I'm not sure if just 'winging it' and hoping for 6s, assuming you've managed to wing it in the turns preceding is a bad strategy. Especially if you've got handy access to Furious Charge.

It's an average 0.5 wounds compared to an average of 1 wound so it's not like you're going to single-handidly stop anything with one of these mitts anyway.

[Irbis]

Actually, I really wasn't. For the list I had written (for almost any list I would've written) I needed four things:

• Bolters
• Power Fists
• Missile Launchers
• Misc. Special Weapons

And some vehicles and such. Maybe an Assault Termy box for Storm Shields and a handful of THammers.
So, I'm kinda stuck.

Bits shop?

http://www.bitzbox.co.uk/
http://www.bitsandkits.co.uk/
http://www.letthedicedecide.co.uk/

[Cheesegear]

Actually, I really wasn't. For the list I had written (for almost any list I would've written) I needed four things:

• Bolters
• Power Fists
• Missile Launchers
• Misc. Special Weapons

And some vehicles and such. Maybe an Assault Termy box for Storm Shields and a handful of THammers.
So, I'm kinda stuck.

You've already got the Tactical Squad, right?

An Assault Squad gives you two Power Weapons and a Power Fist. Use the Assault Marine bodies to give more dynamic poses to Bolter-models, and then swap in the others with special weapons as time requires.

One of my particular favourite conversions is taking the outstretched pistol arms from the Assault Marines and cutting the pistols off and putting Bolters on, and putting a Chainsword in the other hand. Giving you one-handed Bolters and close combat weapons...Then add in your Pistol holsters and you're set.

It's how I made my 'Count As' Grey Hunters.

[Renegade Paladin]

Okay, list for next week. I expect this one to be much more closely fought than the last two (one of our opponents, the Black Templar player, is the local TO, and he has more game experience than every other regular combined), so I'll bring a camera for between-turn pictures and do an illustrated battle report.

Sadly, I forgot my camera. However, I will present a non-standard battle report, as I was too pressed for time to take proper notes. Rather than turn-by-turn, I will tell it unit-by-unit, which is the proper way for an ally of the Space Wolves to set the saga anyway. (Besides, I remember it better that way.) We rolled for first deployment, but our adversaries stole the initiative, leaving us vulnerable in the field. The turns dragged a bit, and I had to leave for work at the end of turn three, though we were well on our way to tabling them at that point, and my partner informs me that they conceded the game soon after I left.

Spoilered for length.

Spoiler

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Company Command Squad - 185
-Medi-pack, veteran lascannon team
-Officer of the Fleet
-Chimera dedicated transport

Not much to tell here. But lo, with orders from its Officer, the Holy Fleet did perform a mighty delaying action, preventing enemy reinforcements from reaching the field of battle until far too late for them to assist their traitorous brethren and the xeno scum who keep them company.

Storm Trooper Squad - 185
-Five additional storm troopers
-Power weapon, flamer, grenade launcher

Alas, the Kasrkin, though fast to heed the call, were too late to assist the mighty Logan Grimnar, who did on this day fall before they came to his aid (though we are gladdened to hear that the Wolf Priests did minister to him afore his spirit joined the Emperor, and that the Great Wolf is eager to rise from his sickbed and take the fight to our enemies once more). Alas also that the winds were treacherous, and though they did their best to deploy where they could bring death to the traitorous Templars who dare fight at the side of the Tau xenos, their grav-chutes were blown off course, and our brave men landed far afield, where only their grenade launcher could reach our foes.

Veteran Squad - 155
-Three meltaguns
-Chimera dedicated transport

These brave veterans abandoned the road at the battle's outset to plunge cross-country to confront our enemy's Land Raider Crusader. While alas, the heathens managed to wreck their Chimera in the third turn (it being saved up until that point through the blessed concealment of its smoke launchers), it was too late to save the Land Raider from heavy damage, though it escaped destruction by a hair's breadth.

Veteran Squad - 200
-Grenadiers
-Three plasma guns
-Chimera dedicated transport

The traitorous Marines feared the holy fire of the sacred plasma weaponry these soldiers carried, and directed their Tau allies to destroy their transport forthwith, which sadly they managed with aplomb in the opening salvos of the battle, rending it asunder in a mighty explosion. Half their number died in the blast, causing them to momentarily fall back in disarray, but their heroic sergeant restored order promptly and led them back towards the enemy before their commander needed to intervene. Sadly, on foot they could not reach our enemies in time, who had deployed far back in the field, but they made a heroic effort and managed to help seize one of the objectives.

Veteran Squad - 155
-Two flamers, heavy flamer
-Chimera dedicated transport
--Heavy flamer turret, heavy flamer

The men of this squad have all received commendations for exemplary heroism in the line of duty, though half must enjoy them posthumously. They drove straight up the road into the very teeth of the Fire Warriors and Broadside team at the far end, full knowing the risks of their actions, but undertaking them gladly in the name of the Emperor. Waving their greetings to the heroic Arjac Rockfist as he exited his drop pod to their right, they hardly slowed on their way to their objective, which they promptly bathed in holy promethium. One of the aliens did not fall, and though still alight, managed to return fire and wreck the Chimera.

The heroic soldiers quickly bailed out through the back hatch, only to find themselves facing three oncoming Terminators, intent on putting an end to them. They rapidly brought their flamers to bear, but too late, for the enemy was upon them! Reacting quickly, their heroic Sergeant (who now proudly bears the Steel Aquila) led a last-second counterattack, chainsword and pistol in hand, inspiring his men to rain blows down upon the armored Marines arrayed against them. Alas, their bayonets lacked the power to punch through the traitors' armor, and they were repulsed before half of the men were butchered by the Terminators' power fists. Thinking quickly, the men took advantage of the sluggishness imposed by the bulk of Tactical Dreadnought armor and ducked out of reach before turning and bathing their adversaries in white-hot promethium, roasting two inside their armor. The remaining Terminator turned to advance on them again, intent on avenging his brothers, when a white-hot lascannon burst shot out from a distant friendly bunker and took him in the helmet, blasting out through the back of the armor's power pack. Looking around eager for more enemies to slake their zeal for smiting the Emperor's foes, they were slightly startled to find themselves standing alone, the bodies of their enemies scattered on the field around.

Veteran Squad - 125
-Forward Sentries
-Veteran lascannon team, sniper rifle

These men occupied a bunker and took potshots with their lascannon for the entire battle, failing to dent the enemy's Land Raider before switching targets and blowing a Terminator's head clean off.

Veteran Squad - 70 (130)
-Forward Sentries
-Three grenade launchers, veteran missile launcher team

These men bore the brunt of the fire from several Fire Warrior squads, and though their cameleoline cloaks concealed them sufficiently to save many, they still temporarily lost their nerve. However, their sergeant restored order and got them back in the fight quickly, where they used their grenade launchers to great effect against Tau drones that dared to contest one of our objectives.

Leman Russ Battle Tank - 170
-Heavy bolter sponsons

This tank's tracks were shot off in the opening salvos by enemy Terminators with a Cyclone launcher. It returned fire and killed one with a heavy bolter, but was struck down soon thereafter by the railguns of a Hammerhead and Broadside team.

Leman Russ Demolisher - 195
-Multimelta sponsons

This tank suffered greatly at the hands of Tau railguns, losing both its Demolisher cannon and the right sponson to enemy fire before bringing them into action. The Iron Priest of the Space Wolves was en route to repair its weapons when he espied his beloved Chapter Master in mortal peril at the hands of the so-called Emperor's Champion and a squad of Assault Terminators and rode off on his great wolf to try to rescue the Great Wolf. Thus deprived of needed repair, the tank commander did the only thing he could do and discharged his remaining multimelta at the only thing in view to the left of his tank: The Terminator squad that keeps coming up in this narrative. The sponson gunner killed another one, bringing it down to the three that faced the fire-wielding veterans.

And that's the story of the battle from my soldiers' perspective. I might continue for my allies later, but right now it's time for me to sleep. With the win, we at least split the tourney pot no matter what we do; if we win or tie next week we win it outright. We are facing the same people again (they won the roll to pick opponents and elected to go after us again), this time at a slightly more sane 1000 points per player. I'll endeavor to remember my camera this time.

[crazedloon]

"House rules" nothing.

...Jump infantry can use their jump packs (or equivalent) and move up to 12" in the Movement phase. This is optional and they can choose to move as normal infantry if they wish....

the problem with that rule is the fact that moving as infantry does not change your unit type to infantry (you are still jump infantry) and as the rules state

However, if a moving jump infantry model begins or ends its move in difficult terrain, it must take a dangerous terrain test.

It is the similar vague wording which keeps beasts from climbing buildings even though they move as infantry.

[Dragonus45]

We've beat this argument like a dead horse. The Tau Codex and it's units individual roles are horribly borked and nobody can really agree on anything about them. Arguing this is essentially pointless.

I propose we make up a short essay stating all the sides and then put it in The Guide, and shepherd anyone who brings the topic up to it, because this topic has consumed more posts and pages than every other topic I can think of, and nobody is any closer to consensus.

Uhhhh, im sorry for asking. I didn't realize it was such a sore subject.

[Irbis]

Uhhhh, im sorry for asking. I didn't realize it was such a sore subject.

You don't have to apologize, ask any questions you want, that's why this thread is for

The fact some people can't not act like jerks near novice players shouldn't dissuade you, not at all.

[Dragonus45]

No on here has been a jerk, i just didn't realize the hornet nest i was stirring. That's 40k stirring, which is beating with a baseball bat, thats on fire, and is possessed by a deamon.

[Arcanoi]

Uhhhh, im sorry for asking. I didn't realize it was such a sore subject.

No need to apologize. It's just that in the last few threads (IIRC, VIII is a good example) we've spent something like 20 pages on this argument, and as I said, we really can't agree on it.

[crazedloon]

No need to apologize. It's just that in the last few threads (IIRC, VIII is a good example) we've spent something like 20 pages on this argument, and as I said, we really can't agree on it.

ah but if we aint arguing about Tau what ever else will we argue about

[Arcanoi]

ah but if we aint arguing about Tau whate ever else will we argue about

Vanguard are the best unit in the game, ever. Assail me on it, but I assure you that I will not budge and you will find me prepared with arguments more powerful than you could possible imagine.

[Irbis]

ah but if we aint arguing about Tau what ever else will we argue about

Scouts?

Or trying to find any usage for warp spawns? Is there any, seriously?

Well, there's also this new Codex coming out, which (as of latest spoilers) combines Sisters and Knights, but who would have talked about such uninteresting things

[Lowkey Lyesmith]

Scouts?

Or trying to find any usage for warp spawns? Is there any, seriously?

Well, there's also this new Codex coming out, which (as of latest spoilers) combines Sisters and Knights, but who would have talked about such uninteresting things

That feels more like something for the fluff thread. But I have to ask, were did you get the info? You did'nt provide a link. I won't actually comment on the rumor until I've seen some form of source.

[Closet_Skeleton]

I won't trust any Grey Knights rumours until a month before the release.

Sisters as an option in retinues maybe, but actually being able to field a sisters army with the book outside of heavy counts as? If I could care to I'm bet money that that was nonsense.

Especially not when all the others are pointing towards there being less non-Grey Knight units.

There's bound to be fluff changes but they won't replace Inquisitorial Storm Troopers with Battle Sisters.

[Lowkey Lyesmith]

I won't trust any Grey Knights rumours until a month before the release.

Sisters as an option in retinues maybe, but actually being able to field a sisters army with the book outside of heavy counts as? If I could care to I'm bet money that that was nonsense.

Especially not when all the others are pointing towards there being less non-Grey Knight units.

There's bound to be fluff changes but they won't replace Inquisitorial Storm Troopers with Battle Sisters.

I agree 100% with this. That's why I asked Ibris for sources. I want to know were the info comes from (if from anywhere).

[sircarp]

the problem with that rule is the fact that moving as infantry does not change your unit type to infantry (you are still jump infantry) and as the rules state



It is the similar vague wording which keeps beasts from climbing buildings even though they move as infantry.

I think that you're taking the rules for movement out of context. The entry for movement says that using the jump pack is optional; if they choose not to do so, they use the normal infantry rules for movement. So the rules as written say that if they choose to move as infantry, the use the rules for infantry.

The difference with beasts/cavalry rules regarding buildings and ruins is that for buildings; the rules state that only infantry may occupy buildings, and it lists the unit types that can go to upper levels of ruins. In this case it's not referring to the movement rules; it simply says that they can't enter (outside of strange cases like wargear wolves)

[hunt11]

I just went down to my local Games Workshop and one of the people working there said that Grey Knights would be coming out after a new Orc list for Warhammer. Anyway, I have been starting a new chaos army and this is what I plan to get.

Spoiler

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Chaos Lord
Jump Pack and Daemon Weapon 150

8 Chosen Chaos Space Marines
5 Plasma guns 219

6 Chaos Space Marines
1 Plasma gun 105
Attached Rhino 35

10 Khorne Beserkers
Aspiring Champion with Powerfist 250
Attached Rhino 35

10 Khorne Beserkers
Aspiring Champion with Powerfist 250
Attached Rhino 35

6 Chaos Raptors
Aspring Champion with Power fist 160

Predator
Lascannon sponsons 130

Predator
Lascannon sponsons 130
Total Points 1499

Any suggestions on how I should change this list?

[crazedloon]

I think that you're taking the rules for movement out of context. The entry for movement says that using the jump pack is optional;

true

if they choose not to do so, they use the normal infantry rules for movement.

true as far as how far you move and limits on your move

So the rules as written say that if they choose to move as infantry, the use the rules for infantry.

not true. The rules as written state that they move as normal infantry. They do not use normal infantry rules.

Because they are still jump infantry they abide by any rule which refers to jump infantry. In this case it is a rule which effects how jump infantry are effected by difficult terrain in the movement phase.

[Irbis]

I won't trust any Grey Knights rumours until a month before the release.

BA and DE had accurate ones long before that.

Though, I'd agree some rumours are a bit too weird to believe (digital lascannons?) which is why I haven't posted them.

Sisters as an option in retinues maybe, but actually being able to field a sisters army with the book outside of heavy counts as? If I could care to I'm bet money that that was nonsense.

Retinues, yes. There are 6 Inquisitor HQ characters, at least two of them can take extra retinues as troops. One can have 7, IIRC, including his own.

There's bound to be fluff changes but they won't replace Inquisitorial Storm Troopers with Battle Sisters.

No, there are options for taking retainers with 5/4/3+ armour. Have I said anything about replacing?

That's why I asked Ibris for sources.

Really, is there a similar word in US or something? Everyone misspells in the exact same way on 5-6 forums

I just went down to my local Games Workshop and one of the people working there said that Grey Knights would be coming out after a new Orc list for Warhammer. Anyway, I have been starting a new chaos army and this is what I plan to get.

Spoiler

Show

Chaos Lord
Jump Pack and Daemon Weapon 150

8 Chosen Chaos Space Marines
5 Plasma guns 219

6 Chaos Space Marines
1 Plasma gun 105
Attached Rhino 35

10 Khorne Beserkers
Aspiring Champion with Powerfist 250
Attached Rhino 35

10 Khorne Beserkers
Aspiring Champion with Powerfist 250
Attached Rhino 35

6 Chaos Raptors
Aspring Champion with Power fist 160

Predator
Lascannon sponsons 130

Predator
Lascannon sponsons 130
Total Points 1499

No melta, many underperforming units. I'm sure someone will be happy to point them out, if I do it all you will hear for three next pages will be screams about lies/heresy :P

[Closet_Skeleton]

I just went down to my local Games Workshop and one of the people working there said that Grey Knights would be coming out after a new Orc list for Warhammer. Anyway, I have been starting a new chaos army and this is what I plan to get.

Spoiler

Show

Chaos Lord
Jump Pack and Daemon Weapon 150

8 Chosen Chaos Space Marines
5 Plasma guns 219

6 Chaos Space Marines
1 Plasma gun 105
Attached Rhino 35

10 Khorne Beserkers
Aspiring Champion with Powerfist 250
Attached Rhino 35

10 Khorne Beserkers
Aspiring Champion with Powerfist 250
Attached Rhino 35

6 Chaos Raptors
Aspring Champion with Power fist 160

Predator
Lascannon sponsons 130

Predator
Lascannon sponsons 130
Total Points 1499

Any suggestions on how I should change this list?

Troops marines shouldn't have lower numbers than chosen.

Chaos Predators are far from their best heavy support option.

[Cheesegear]

BA and DE had accurate ones long before that.

Blood Angels was leaked, and at least two people were fired from GW for doing it.

Dark Eldar was not leaked and was not 'spoilered' at all until, like, two weeks until release.

Really, is there a similar word in US or something? Everyone misspells in the exact same way on 5-6 forums

Except you didn't answer the question. I just went back two pages or so and I can't find any sources. Maybe I missed it? I didn't. I just re-checked.

[Incomp]

Spoiler

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Chaos Lord
Jump Pack and Daemon Weapon 150

This is okay. Far from perfect, but okay. Personally, I would change to a Daemon prince, but if you must have the daemon weapon, you may wish to consider taking a mark of nurgle. It'll give you T5, and poisoned attacks, which against T4 enemies is superior, (75% chance of wounding as opposed to 66%) and equivalent against T5+. I can't think of anything T3 that you actually need to worry about it combat, but against them, the unmarked weapon is better.

8 Chosen Chaos Space Marines
5 Plasma guns 219

Uh. Alright. They should have either a sarge or an icon. Not necessarily both. These guys work best in conjunction with daemons, mind. Meltas would also probably be a superior weapon choice, particularly if you play on terrain-heavy boards.

6 Chaos Space Marines
1 Plasma gun 105
Attached Rhino 35

No. My god, no. These are an abject waste of points. First of all, there is rarely, if ever, a good reason to take basic CSM. These should either be cut entirely, or replaced with higher numbers or a better troops choice. Depends on what you want to use them for:

Objective squatters? Take plague marines.
Killing MEQs? Thousand Sons work great.
Killing non-MEQs? Noise marines.
Close Combat? Berserkers. 'nuff said.

10 Khorne Beserkers
Aspiring Champion with Powerfist 250
Attached Rhino 35

10 Khorne Beserkers
Aspiring Champion with Powerfist 250
Attached Rhino 35

Sure.

6 Chaos Raptors
Aspring Champion with Power fist 160

Raptors...are highly overpriced. Take more Berserkers instead. If you want meat shields for your jump pack lord, then, well, these guys won't last long, having no invo and only six woulds.

Predator
Lascannon sponsons 130

Predator
Lascannon sponsons 130

No. Just no. Take obliterators instead if you want ranged tank-killing. Defilers are awesome, too. As are possessed vindicators. Actually, any heavy support but these are good.

For reference, this is how I would revise your list:

Spoiler

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Chaos Lord
Bike, Daemon Weapon, Mark of Nurgle: 180 points

8x Chosen
Mark of Chaos Glory, 5x Metaguns: 204 points (384 total)

8x Thousand Sons
Doombolt: 231 points (615 total)

8x Berserkers
Champion w/Fist, Rhino: 243 (858 total)

8x Berserkers
Champion w/Fist: 243 (1101 total)

4x Bikers
Nurgle, Champion w/Fist: 172 (1273 total)

3x Obliterators: 225 (1498 total)

The above is a rough draft, but I think it would do okay.

[Irbis]

Blood Angels was leaked, and at least two people were fired from GW for doing it.

Dark Eldar was not leaked and was not 'spoilered' at all until, like, two weeks until release.

Ech, most changes (poison guns, statlines, some new units) were known at least three months before that.

Except you didn't answer the question.

That didn't answer my question either :P

I just went back two pages or so and I can't find any sources.

They're all over the place, by at least 3 different spoilers. I could point to HO, B&C, BoK, or Warseer to support anything I posted. Which one do you think is the most reliable?

Eh, B&C has all links here. The most current/safest ones are in 8/2/2011 roundup section.

[Turcano]

No need to apologize. It's just that in the last few threads (IIRC, VIII is a good example) we've spent something like 20 pages on this argument, and as I said, we really can't agree on it.

Yeah, with Tau, the only thing people can agree on (usually) is that Crisis Suits, Hammerheads, Hazard Teams and Broadsides are good and Ethereals, Vespids, and Knarlocs are bad.

[Ninja Chocobo]

Because they are still jump infantry they abide by any rule which refers to jump infantry. In this case it is a rule which effects how jump infantry are effected by difficult terrain in the movement phase.

Okay I think this falls under the "any sane person" category of RAW.

Did you know that you can embark into a Drop Pod if it came down empty? The paragraph says "Once passengers have disembarked, no models can embark on the Drop Pod for the remainder of the game." If there wasn't anyone to disembark from it when it landed, there's nothing stopping another squad from sitting in a 12/12/12 open-topped bunker.

[Lowkey Lyesmith]

That didn't answer my question either :P


They're all over the place, by at least 3 different spoilers. I could point to HO, B&C, BoK, or Warseer to support anything I posted. Which one do you think is the most reliable?

Eh, B&C has all links here. The most current/safest ones are in 8/2/2011 roundup section.

Ibris is actually a word and until now I had not noticed that you spelled it Irbis. Sorry for that, but since I'm a student I read fast so I wont react if some letter are scambled if the word makes sence.

Again sorry, meant no offence.

But, next time. Point out that I did it wrong in a polite manner and then provide the links thus answering my question. That will ensure a good debate climate here.

Jisses, I sound like my mother

[Irbis]

No offence taken. But, 'I' did not spell it

From google:

Ibris: About 112,000 results.

Irbis: About 1,910,000 results.

If there wasn't anyone to disembark from it when it landed, there's nothing stopping another squad from sitting in a 12/12/12 open-topped bunker.

With zero firepoints? How would it work, anyway? Sides are open, everyone can see your soldiers.

By the way, we had discussion about drop pods in FLGS today - someone claimed you cannot pack dread into normal pod as it is far too small, and the only way to do it legally is to use FW pod designed for dreads. Something about new models superseding the old when they come out. Or, at least check against FW pod dimensions. Is that true?

[Arcanoi]

With zero firepoints?

Open-Topped.

How would it work, anyway? Sides are open, everyone can see your soldiers.

They're embarked in a vehicle. Not to mention, most people don't try to squeeze their models into their transports, which ties in nicely to your next question.

By the way, we had discussion about drop pods in FLGS today - someone claimed you cannot pack dread into normal pod as it is far too small, and the only way to do it legally is to use FW pod designed for dreads. Something about new models superseding the old when they come out. Or, at least check against FW pod dimensions. Is that true?

It's both ridiculous and wrong. The comparative size of the models is an innane comparison, on par with something like "Your models don't even have muscles! How could they move?!"

[crazedloon]

Did you know that you can embark into a Drop Pod if it came down empty? The paragraph says "Once passengers have disembarked, no models can embark on the Drop Pod for the remainder of the game." If there wasn't anyone to disembark from it when it landed, there's nothing stopping another squad from sitting in a 12/12/12 open-topped bunker.

Hmm interesting, however the rule had to be worded in that manner in order to allow passengers to start on the vehicle. Also interestingly the SW version of the rule specifically refers to the unit which is deployed in the pod (by adding the word the rule) which may mean you could get in and out of it, however It think there is a logic loop in the rules somewhere to prevent that

edit:
as for firing points it does not need them since it is open topped everyone can shoot out of it, also you can embark at any point on the model. Also the idea that a model can not be used because it is too small to fit the respective models is ridiculous old rhinos can still be used and they are tiny (you would be lucky to get a few scouts in it)