Worst CR 12-16 creature to fight in an anti-magic field?

[Boci]

Pretty much what it says on the tin, just an idle curiosity. Creature can be from any source, even homebrew. Do note that by anti-magic field I mean the whole area, so more likely a dead magic zone (but I used anti-magic in the title because that is more widely recognized).

[herrhauptmann]

How about That damn crab?
It's supposed to be what, a CR 9? Though I'd put that in 'worst monster to fight' with or without an AMF.
Also: Dragons.

[Gnaeus]

Most Dragons are actually not that tough in an AMF, unless they are flying and PCs can't fight them at range. Any dragon at that cr range is a 3-9th level caster, with a lot of wealth, which can take the form of usable magic items, and many have other SU abilities as well. For most of them, turning them into a flying lizard is not a benefit.

That only worked in OOTS because it was a solo fight between a dragon and a full caster.

[The Glyphstone]

Most Dragons are actually not that tough in an AMF, unless they are flying and PCs can't fight them at range. Any dragon at that cr range is a 3-9th level caster, with a lot of wealth, which can take the form of usable magic items, and many have other SU abilities as well. For most of them, turning them into a flying lizard is not a benefit.

That only worked in OOTS because it was a solo fight between a dragon and a full caster.

Yeah, but you don't want to be the Fighter who has to trade full attacks with a dragon in an AMF either. Really, in a dead-magic zone, dragons are probably towards the top of the 'bad-news' list of enemies to fight.

[Stallion]

Advanced Darktentacles.

[Talakeal]

It takes a pretty optimized fighter to go toe to toe with a dragon sans magic items. Also, with their movement they can, if I recall correctly (it has been a while since I have used this tactic) grapple one PC and fly away with them. There are few PCs who can beat a dragon in a grapple, and there are fewer who can catch a dragon, therefore the dragon is going to be killing the party one at a time.

[Anxe]

Dragons wouldn't be able to fly in an Anti-magic field. I remember the DMG or the MM saying that flight speeds over 100ft are always magically created. Would it be able to breath fire either?

[Zaydos]

It takes a pretty optimized fighter to go toe to toe with a dragon sans magic items. Also, with their movement they can, if I recall correctly (it has been a while since I have used this tactic) grapple one PC and fly away with them. There are few PCs who can beat a dragon in a grapple, and there are fewer who can catch a dragon, therefore the dragon is going to be killing the party one at a time.

This; I was just showing my little brother how a dragon could do this (despite having had dragons do it to his party before).

[The Glyphstone]

Dragons wouldn't be able to fly in an Anti-magic field. I remember the DMG or the MM saying that flight speeds over 100ft are always magically created. Would it be able to breath fire either?

Neither of those books lists this under the Flight ability. It wouldn't be able to breath fire, because Breath Weapon is a (Su), but Flight for Dragons is Natural.

[Killer Angel]

Either an iron golem isn't a cakewalk...

[BadJuJu]

I can speak from experience that dragons will rape your face in an AMF. It aint even pretty. Is their DR extraordinary or super natural?

[Talakeal]

Isn't DR magic always supernatural?

[The Glyphstone]

I think it was clarified in Rules Compendium that DR/Magic goes away in an AMF.

[Yora]

How about That damn crab?

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040221a
It's CR 3.

[pasko77]

I would say anything etheral.

[Runestar]

Something with grapple, like a colossal scorpion.

[Cartigan]

Something with grapple, like a colossal scorpion.

Anything the size of a small supertanker is basically the worst thing to fight in a AMF.

[Anxe]

Neither of those books lists this under the Flight ability. It wouldn't be able to breath fire, because Breath Weapon is a (Su), but Flight for Dragons is Natural.

I must've remembered the description of the Flight ability instead of the Fly ability. Although why those are different abilities is a little strange. I suppose they can fly in anti-magic by RAW.

[Gnaeus]

I did say that if the dragon could use its flight to its advantage, and the party couldn't match it, the dragon would likely win. That is by no means assured, though. If this dead magic zone is underground, maybe in the dragon's cave, carry off one party member at a time may not be a valid strategy. Also, the dragon's maneuverability is awful, and if it has to drop and ascend many fliers could outfly it.

But really, for a CR appropriate party, I don't see anything particularly scary about most dragons. 180-260 hp. AC of 27-32 is no problem for a combat character. A charging paladin with a flying mount could 1 shot it. So could an ubercharger if he can reach it. A couple of good archers could drop one. A flask thrower of that level who won initiative on round 1 could cripple it (Darkstalker gets you close to it). Even their strength/grapple checks, while impressive, are not out of reach of many dedicated trippers or grapplers (Base strength of 24 for +7, large +4 (half ogre perhaps), Imp Trip +4, +2-+3 for rage actually gives a tripping advantage over most dragons in this range, and once it is on the ground and on its back it is toast. Grapple is harder, but not impossible).

[cylch]

I know it's not in the CR 12 range but looking at it i think a hellwasp swarm would be a major pain if not impossible to fight in an anti magic field.

for reference hellwasp swarm

[Dr.Epic]

How about That damn crab?

CRAB BATTLE!

[ken-do-nim]

I know it's not in the CR 12 range but looking at it i think a hellwasp swarm would be a major pain if not impossible to fight in an anti magic field.

for reference hellwasp swarm

My favorite WOTC monster in the game!

[The Glyphstone]

I know it's not in the CR 12 range but looking at it i think a hellwasp swarm would be a major pain if not impossible to fight in an anti magic field.

for reference hellwasp swarm

Hope you brought a huge pile of acid flasks - like, a couple hundred of them.

But really, for a CR appropriate party, I don't see anything particularly scary about most dragons. 180-260 hp. AC of 27-32 is no problem for a combat character. A charging paladin with a flying mount could 1 shot it. So could an ubercharger if he can reach it. A couple of good archers could drop one. A flask thrower of that level who won initiative on round 1 could cripple it (Darkstalker gets you close to it). Even their strength/grapple checks, while impressive, are not out of reach of many dedicated trippers or grapplers (Base strength of 24 for +7, large +4 (half ogre perhaps), Imp Trip +4, +2-+3 for rage actually gives a tripping advantage over most dragons in this range, and once it is on the ground and on its back it is toast. Grapple is harder, but not impossible).

You're assuming average or above-average optimization here though. Charger builds are the best way to maximize your odds of killing it, to be true - but a dragon has a far superior fly speed to pretty much any other creature in the game, and maxed ranks in Spot for its Hit Dice. Even if you win initiative, it's probably the one charging you, unless you've caught it underground/indoors.

[awa]

i would take the hellwasp and raise you a half fiend hell wasp swarm now they are resistant to cold electricity and acid in addition to the fire resistance they already had plus now they are even smarter but then they are still only cr 11 not high enough so lets throw on the half dragon template and pick oh why not emerald that gives you immunity to sonic.

(i dont know if their is an item that cause sonic damage but if there is now it wont work)

[Eldariel]

Choker Warblades are pretty nasty. Double actions tend to be fairly good in dead magic. Tho yeah, Dragons are fairly nice too. And baby Tarrasques; though all that is eminently chargeable of course. Or Hurlable. Actually, some Dusk Giant Hulking Hurler would prolly be the most annoying thing to face; getting ~10^10d6 to the face is somewhat painful and Dusk Giants can Cannibalize as an Ex-ability to graowwwww.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Choker Warblades are pretty nasty. Double actions tend to be fairly good in dead magic. Tho yeah, Dragons are fairly nice too. And baby Tarrasques; though all that is eminently chargeable of course. Or Hurlable. Actually, some Dusk Giant Hulking Hurler would prolly be the most annoying thing to face; getting ~10^10d6 to the face is somewhat painful and Dusk Giants can Cannibalize as an Ex-ability to graowwwww.

According to the SRD the choker's quickness is a (SU) ability.

[Claudius Maximus]

According to my Monster Manual it doesn't exist.

[The Glyphstone]

According to my Monster Manual it doesn't exist.

You may have a defective MM...

[Fox Box Socks]

Swarms of anything are just beyond annoying in an anti-magic field. Especially swarms of things with a fly speed, as that kind of puts a damper on any improvised molotov cocktails the party might cook up.

Really though, fly speed + reach + anti magic sphere = dead party.

[Vknight]

Why not the greatest villian ever someone who has abilities created by magic but all natural.

Pun-Pun