Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XIX

[Amechra]

I'm participating, and a question:

Does the Inspire-Courage like ability for Honorable Dread Pirates actually count as Inspire Courage for the purpose of qualifying for PrCs and Feats?

[kestrel404]

I'm participating, and a question:

Does the Inspire-Courage like ability for Honorable Dread Pirates actually count as Inspire Courage for the purpose of qualifying for PrCs and Feats?

Depends on the wording of the requirement. It might stack with inspire courage, but it is not actually inspire courage.

[Amechra]

Is 'k. Will scrap THAT build...

[T.G. Oskar]

I'm participating, and a question:

Does the Inspire-Courage like ability for Honorable Dread Pirates actually count as Inspire Courage for the purpose of qualifying for PrCs and Feats?

IMO, it doesn't. What you get is: the bonus from Rally the Crew stacks with Inspire Courage (one of the rare occasions where same-type bonuses stack), and levels in Rally the Crew stack with levels in a class that grants Inspire Courage to determine the total bonus. So, you get an improved Inspire Courage (but not anything else, such as daily uses of Bardic Music or actual uses of Bardic Music) and the synergy with Rally the Crew.

Note: it doesn't say that you have to be a bard, only that you need to have the inspire courage bardic music ability.

[Zaq]

IMO, it doesn't. What you get is: the bonus from Rally the Crew stacks with Inspire Courage (one of the rare occasions where same-type bonuses stack), and levels in Rally the Crew stack with levels in a class that grants Inspire Courage to determine the total bonus. So, you get an improved Inspire Courage (but not anything else, such as daily uses of Bardic Music or actual uses of Bardic Music) and the synergy with Rally the Crew.

Note: it doesn't say that you have to be a bard, only that you need to have the inspire courage bardic music ability.

I read it that Inspire Courage makes Rally the Crew better, but Rally the Crew doesn't make Inspire Courage better.

It's really, really ambiguous, though. It's got some very unclear grammar. Someone convince me one way or the other.

[Amechra]

How official are the "Other Worlds", like Ravenloft, Mystara, and Planescape?

Are materials from said settings available for this competition?

[Cieyrin]

How official are the "Other Worlds", like Ravenloft, Mystara, and Planescape?

Are materials from said settings available for this competition?

It depends on the what you mean by material. If you mean fluff, by all means, raid to your pleasure. If you mean crunch, that gets stickier, as the only WotC published material I can think of off-hand for Ravenloft and Mystara were in Dragon, which isn't allowed, unless it made it into the Dragon Compendium, which I guess is possible, though not likely. Planescape exists here and there in 3rd, though not really as it's own setting per se. It's mostly in the Planar Handbook and Manual of the Planes, though smatterings about Sigil and other Planescape material can be found elsewhere.

Otherwise, 3rd party stuff isn't viable for competition, if my understanding of the rules are correct.

[Amechra]

Dang it! I wanted to do a space pirate...

[dextercorvia]

I read it that Inspire Courage makes Rally the Crew better, but Rally the Crew doesn't make Inspire Courage better.

It's really, really ambiguous, though. It's got some very unclear grammar. Someone convince me one way or the other.

Yeah, I read it that Rally the Crew bounus is augmented by the amount of the IC bonus. "he can add the morale bonus gained from that ability to the morale bonus gained from this ability to determine the total morale bonus granted." I don't think you have to activate IC, for this to work, just having it makes RtC better.

[Quirp]

Competing!
Appraise is a really rare skill, isn´t it.

[Devmaar]

I think I'll give this a go

[kestrel404]

Competing!
Appraise is a really rare skill, isn´t it.

Yes. Extremely.

[gbprime]

My judging criteria are up now, back on page 1.

LINK

[aquaticrna]

competing!

[Thurbane]

My build is coming together nicely. Hope to have the formatting sorted and build submitted well before the deadline.

[Akal Saris]

I'll compete, though my idea isn't that original :P

[Xodion]

I was worried the deadline would be Friday night and I wouldn't have time to make a build, but as it is Monday night I will have the weekend to have a go, so I will take part

I've also thought of a really silly (though probably obvious) idea...

[Zaq]

I'm still not comfortable with the whole Inspire Courage/Rally the Crew issue. I think that we'd all be better off if the assembled judges can come to an agreement about how the two abilities do and do not interact with one another, if for no other reason than to keep things something resembling consistent. While it's certainly not unprecedented for one judge to penalize the exact same trick that another judge rewards, this seems like it could be a sticky situation that I'd really rather not have blow up into endless disputes.

As I said, my current reading is that IC makes RtC better, but RtC does not make IC better. However, I am willing to be persuaded otherwise. Damned poorly written abilities. So, who's in agreement with me, and who begs to differ? I don't really care what we decide, so long as it's revealed ahead of time. I don't want there to be any "gotcha!"s.

[Private-Prinny]

I was worried the deadline would be Friday night and I wouldn't have time to make a build, but as it is Monday night I will have the weekend to have a go, so I will take part

I've also thought of a really silly (though probably obvious) idea...

Unfortunately, you missed the deadline. According to the front page, our entries were due almost a year ago.

[gbprime]

It looks pretty clear to me.

If a dread pirate has the inspire courage bardic music ability, he can add the morale bonus gained from that ability [Inspire Courage] to the morale bonus gained from this ability [Rally the Crew] to determine the total morale bonus granted.

Period. It doesn't say it works the other way around, so it doesn't. And you can't pump it up like Bardic Music because it isn't Bardic Music, it just stacks with it. (So Inspirational Boost only applies it's bonus once, thank you. )

Example... Bard 6 / Dread Pirate 3 ... Has 6 bardic musics per day that can be used for Inspire Courage, and 1 Rally the Crew per day that stacks with it.

[Zaq]

It looks pretty clear to me.



Period. It doesn't say it works the other way around, so it doesn't. And you can't pump it up like Bardic Music because it isn't Bardic Music, it just stacks with it. (So Inspirational Boost only applies it's bonus once, thank you. )

Example... Bard 6 / Dread Pirate 3 ... Has 6 bardic musics per day that can be used for Inspire Courage, and 1 Rally the Crew per day that stacks with it.

Good. That's exactly how I read it. IC improves RtC, but RtC doesn't improve IC.

[Private-Prinny]

Good. That's exactly how I read it. IC improves RtC, but RtC doesn't improve IC.

Actually, I don't think that's it. I think what the ability is trying to say is that they stack with each other in violation of the usual "same name bonuses don't stack" rule.

[Zaq]

Actually, I don't think that's it. I think what the ability is trying to say is that they stack with each other in violation of the usual "same name bonuses don't stack" rule.

And this is exactly why we're having this conversation ahead of time.

[Cieyrin]

It looks pretty clear to me.



Period. It doesn't say it works the other way around, so it doesn't. And you can't pump it up like Bardic Music because it isn't Bardic Music, it just stacks with it. (So Inspirational Boost only applies it's bonus once, thank you. )

Example... Bard 6 / Dread Pirate 3 ... Has 6 bardic musics per day that can be used for Inspire Courage, and 1 Rally the Crew per day that stacks with it.

I'm of this opinion as well. It seems dumb to require two different actions to get off a stacking ability, which'd make it pretty worthless except in corner cases.

[vikingofdoom]

Here's my criteria:
Power-I will consider the base power of the class(es) taken, and compare that with the build present.
Originality-If I can recognize the build from somewhere, or the build is really obvious, I will dock marks here.
Elegance: I will dock marks for UA variants in the main build (presenting them as side courses is allowed without losing marks), and for taking 1-2 levels in more than 2 classes, and for any illegal builds. Taking material from more than 1 campaign setting is discouraged. Chaining variants is treated as illegal, as are non-official variants (see unarmed swordsage for a non-official variant).
Use of the Secret Ingredient: The more the secret ingredient is central to the build, the better it will do. Straight-foward, but I encourage taking 9-10 levels.

[dextercorvia]

Here's my criteria:
Power-I will consider the base power of the class(es) taken, and compare that with the build present.
Originality-If I can recognize the build from somewhere, or the build is really obvious, I will dock marks here.
Elegance: I will dock marks for UA variants in the main build (presenting them as side courses is allowed without losing marks), and for taking 1-2 levels in more than 2 classes, and for any illegal builds. Taking material from more than 1 campaign setting is discouraged.
Use of the Secret Ingredient: The more the secret ingredient is central to the build, the better it will do. Straight-foward, but I encourage taking 9-10 levels.

Is it only UA variants that you will mark off for?

[vikingofdoom]

Only UA variants result in points deducted. All other variants are allowed, though not chainable, and any non-published variant is assumed illegal (looking at unarmed swordsage). I'll add the last bit to my criteria.

[Amechra]

Do we have to stat out followers?

[Thurbane]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191061

Can we have a pre-emptive deadline extension?

[edit] Re-reading the announcement, it probably shouldn't cause any issues. [/edit]

[T.G. Oskar]

Whew, finally managed to post my participation. Guess this means I'll be competing instead of judging, unless something far too radical happens (and even then, I guess I'll leave judging for next time unless you don't mind).