Results 1 to 30 of 36
Thread: Question for DMs
-
2011-04-08, 08:15 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2010
- Location
- Atlantic Stand Time
- Gender
Question for DMs
Just wondering, what would you do if one of your players wanted to jump his horse off a 90 foot cliff?
-
2011-04-08, 08:30 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2005
- Location
- Somerville, MA
- Gender
Re: Question for DMs
Start counting my d10s.
If you like what I have to say, please check out my GMing Blog where I discuss writing and roleplaying in greater depth.
-
2011-04-08, 08:46 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2011
- Location
- Castle Sparrowcellar
- Gender
-
2011-04-08, 08:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
Re: Question for DMs
Make the local nature godess save the horse while letting the player fall to his death. Divine intervention for the win.
-
2011-04-08, 09:02 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
Re: Question for DMs
I believe the DM of the Rings covered this subjuect sufficently.
-
2011-04-08, 09:13 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
- Location
- Flanking Position
-
2011-04-08, 09:15 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2010
- Location
- Atlantic Stand Time
- Gender
Re: Question for DMs
No, he just was too stubborn to leave the damn horse behind
-
2011-04-08, 09:18 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
- Location
- Flanking Position
-
2011-04-08, 09:23 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2005
- Location
- Worcestershire, UK
Re: Question for DMs
90 ft?
By the RAW, that's 9d6, or an average of 31.5 damage, so I'd point out that the fall would likely kill the horse, and badly injure the PC.
If he insisted, it's his character. I'd have the PC's alignment move toward chaotic and evil.
Next, the jump attempt may not work.
The horse may refuse to jump. Make a ride check, with a -4 circumstance penalty. If that's failed, the PC needs to make a ride check to stay in the saddle when the horse freezes on the edge. If the PC falls off, he can make a REF save DC15 to not fall over the edge.
If the ride check to jump is passed, then the horse and rider sail out into the air and tumble down the cliff. To stay on top of the horse as it falls, I'd have the PC make a ride check.
If the PC failed that ride check, I'd use the rules for falling objects to have the rider deal damage to the horse and the horse to the rider, additionally to the falling damage.
Of course, in my house ruled game, this fall would almost certainly kill or cripple any character - falling damage is partially applied to CON.
EDIT: Just noticed I'm posting in the 4e section. Not sure if the figures and checks work this way in 4e... But my principle stands, I think.Last edited by Altair_the_Vexed; 2011-04-08 at 09:59 AM.
-
2011-04-08, 09:38 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2005
- Location
- Copenhagen, DK
- Gender
Re: Question for DMs
First of all, the mount would refuse such an action. If it is somehow forced or tricked to do so anyway, I guess it's 9d10 damage right there, or perhaps even insta-death depending on the situation. But I'd need a very convincing argument for him/her to do somthing like this in the first place (ok, I guess I might allow it, if it was part of an extremely cinematic/awesome/high tier action scene).
Divine intervention seems silly: in that case the gods should interfere all the time!
-
2011-04-08, 09:41 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
- Location
- On Paper
- Gender
Re: Question for DMs
-
2011-04-08, 09:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
Re: Question for DMs
and if he fails he takes 9D10 falling damage and the horse comes back and haunts him!
-
2011-04-08, 09:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Brazil
- Gender
Re: Question for DMs
"When you find yourself sinking into Madness, dive." –Malkavian proverb
"From the tiny egg the great wyrm grows." –Kobold proverb
-
2011-04-08, 01:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
Re: Question for DMs
I'd definitely have the mount refuse unless the player does one of few things.
1) Intimidates it at a high enough DC. Make the DC at least equal to the Horse's Will defense.
2) Nature check to convince the horse to do it, I'd put the DC higher than that of the Intimidate check.
3) Blinds the horse and spurs it. Of course, the horse will fall, not jump.
Have you tried convincing him to stick his horse in a bag of holding and jumping?
edit: The two checks should be IMPOSSIBLE without training and hard with training. So if the player is trained in either skill, make the DC equal to the player's check -3 or so. If the player isn't trained, make the check equal to the player's maximum check +2 (ie: impossible to do alone)
In addition, if the player fails his/her check the horse tries to throw them off and run away.Last edited by Sipex; 2011-04-08 at 01:25 PM.
-
2011-04-08, 01:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: Question for DMs
Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
"I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!
-
2011-04-08, 01:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
- Location
- Flanking Position
Re: Question for DMs
If he's not ON the horse, roll initiative.
If he is... figure out what he's trying to accomplish and rule from there.
-
2011-04-08, 01:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
- Location
- Meridianville AL
- Gender
Re: Question for DMs
Well, tries to. Nature is used for Handle Animal, so I'd use the nature skill for the check to try this.
The horse is what, level 1 or 3 depending on type. Staying on should be Hard for a character of the horse's level. So either way DC 15 to stay on the horse, getting the horse to actually go over the cliff? I'd say that's much worse, but if he makes a DC of 25 on the handle animal roll then I'd say he not only stays on but the horse goes with him.
Staying on top of the horse when it hits the ground? Beats me, but I'll bet having 1600lb or so of horse land on top of you is bad. Since I have a sick sense of humor that's what happens if he rolls exactly 25 on his nature roll, and I'd let him know this AFTER he says what he's doing and PRIOR to rolling the dice, more fun for everyone.
DougL
Edit to add: I haven't had anyone do anything as stupid as jump a horse off a cliff in a long time, stunts and misuse of minions and prisoners, yes, that sort of thing, no. I maintain that things like "the horse may well land on you" is part of why people don't do that sort of ****. Unlike divine intervention it's a perfectly reasonable and likely consequence of the action and the action is clearly something "the rules don't cover".Last edited by Doug Lampert; 2011-04-08 at 01:53 PM.
-
2011-04-08, 01:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
Re: Question for DMs
This sounds like it's going to be an interesting character death.
Level 3 elven ranger - Crushed by a horse after falling off a cliff with it.
-
2011-04-08, 02:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
- Location
- Chicago, IL
- Gender
Re: Question for DMs
I'd probably give the horse a Saving Throw to see if it could stop itself from being moved into Obviously Hazardous Terrain.
If it succeeded, it would fall prone at the edge of the cliff.
If it failed, then I'd roll 9d10 and apply the damage to both the Horse and the PC. If the Horse survives, it lands prone at the bottom of the cliff. If the Horse does not, then it is killed outright.
Adjudicate damage to the PC as normal.
* * * *
OK, now I have to ask - why is this even a question? Aside from the Saving Throw bit, it's straight-up RAW. If this is a question about whether to follow the rules or not, the answer is "follow the rules - the Player is committed to doing something stupid and should experience the fallout."Lead Designer for Oracle Hunter GamesToday a Blog, Tomorrow a Business!
~ Awesome Avatar by the phantastic Phase ~Spoiler
Elflad
-
2011-04-08, 02:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2010
- Location
- Atlantic Stand Time
- Gender
Re: Question for DMs
Needless to say I was not the DM, and I was rather opposed to how the DM handled it. I am also not the one jumping the horse off a cliff. Just wanted to find out how other DMs would handle the situation.
-
2011-04-08, 02:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
- Location
- Chicago, IL
- Gender
Re: Question for DMs
Lead Designer for Oracle Hunter GamesToday a Blog, Tomorrow a Business!
~ Awesome Avatar by the phantastic Phase ~Spoiler
Elflad
-
2011-04-08, 02:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2010
- Gender
Re: Question for DMs
This depends on how long he has had the horse. Only a highly trained horse that trusted its rider, would even consider doing such a thing.
Thus, he would need to make a difficult skill check to succeed. Failing that, another moderate skill check, to not go over by himself.
-
2011-04-08, 03:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
- Location
- Meridianville AL
- Gender
Re: Question for DMs
Why? The horse ISN'T being forced to move. And that save is against forced movement. Since the horse isn't being forced to move, then if it's smart enough to resist being moved into Obviously Hazardous Terrain it simply doesn't do it.
Mounts are USUALLY cooperative with their rider, but it's still the mount's movement, not the rider's. I can't see how the forced movement rules can POSSIBLY apply. Either the horse controls it's movement and gets to decide what to do (and doesn't go over the side baring the PC doing something to make it) or the rider has complete control of the horse's actions by virtue of sitting on it and can dictate that it tries to jump off the cliff (in which case this isn't forced and the horse doesn't get a save).
Where do the rules say that a mount will do absolutely anything a rider tells them to?
-
2011-04-08, 03:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2005
- Location
- Somerville, MA
- Gender
Re: Question for DMs
If you like what I have to say, please check out my GMing Blog where I discuss writing and roleplaying in greater depth.
-
2011-04-08, 03:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
- Location
- Meridianville AL
- Gender
-
2011-04-08, 03:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
Re: Question for DMs
Let's not turn this into another arguement, I want to see what actually happened before the thread gets locked.
Plus we have enough arguements on these forums nowadays.
I would say it's something completely up to the DM since there aren't rules in place for it. As a DM you'd have to make an arbitration.
-
2011-04-08, 03:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2005
- Location
- Somerville, MA
- Gender
Re: Question for DMs
I choose to be atypical.
The post was clarification of several previous posts but I didn't quote them all. Apologies if I thought I was targeting your post explicitly. It looked like you disagreed with Oracle questioning why this question was being asked. I was trying to clarify what I thought Oracle_Hunter meant, which was that the damage should not be questioned. In retrospect I should have included his quotation as well as yours.If you like what I have to say, please check out my GMing Blog where I discuss writing and roleplaying in greater depth.
-
2011-04-08, 04:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
- Location
- Chicago, IL
- Gender
Re: Question for DMs
As I said, the RAW on mount reaction is limited at best. Better to do a quick adjudication to a not-important act than to turn it into a Skill Challenge.
Also:
Originally Posted by DMG (Errata)
No, it doesn't says mounts always do what they're rider tells them, but in the case of movement it seems that Players get to choose how the rider acts as long as the PC is mounted on it.Lead Designer for Oracle Hunter GamesToday a Blog, Tomorrow a Business!
~ Awesome Avatar by the phantastic Phase ~Spoiler
Elflad
-
2011-04-08, 06:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2010
- Location
- Atlantic Stand Time
- Gender
Re: Question for DMs
Well the DM let him just jump, horse's free will not accounted for. Also, somehow he reduced the falling damage by 2d10 for sliding down a sheer wall........
-
2011-04-08, 08:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Location
- Medway, England
- Gender
Re: Question for DMs
Horse stops suddenly at/near edge of cliff, he makes a saving throw: if he passes he falls prone off the horse at the edge of the cliff, if he fails he takes full falling damage and lands prone at bottom of cliff (probably killing him).
Also he gets an OOC slap from whoever's sitting nearest to him at the tableAmazing ponytar by Dirtytabs
Larger Version:
Spoiler