Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

[Timberwolf]

I'm guessing that Fortitude and the Shrouding don't really make up the difference. What loadout would you recommend for them? I'm thinking Multi-Melta for cracking tanks, and the Plasma Cannon and Mindstrike Missiles ought to be good for alpha striking an enemy unit, particularly one that's carrying anti-psyker defences like a Farseer or Librarian.

Not with 4 of them. 3 usually hit and at least one of those will penetrate and they're AP1.

Loadout depends on what you want. I never leave home without the sponsons and yours, with the psycannon ammo are better than mine. If I'm, taking 3, I take 2 assault cannons and one lascannon, if I'm running 2, I take a lascannon and assault cannon. if it's 1 it's assault cannon.

[Cheesegear]

Y'know what's great? How the casual meta-game is completely flipped on it's head.

The Casual meta-game is nearly exclusively under what people can afford and whatever is in the boxes with little to no conversion work or part-swapping. To that end, nearly nobody buys Dedicated Transport vehicles and nearly the whole game is dealt with in Infantry.

Guard are considered crap because people take Veterans without vehicles (it fills the 2 Troops quickly at cost), Land Speeders are absolutely terrible because people buy one, it performs terribly and they never get any more. And Tau and Necrons are considered unfair because their Troops are too good. Yes. I'm actually talking about Fire Warriors. Not Kroot. Predators are terrible because nobody takes light vehicles, and Vindicators are way, way better because they kill blocks of Infantry.

Seriously, it feels really weird when you ask somebody what the best unit in the game is, and they say Hammernators in a Land Raider. Really? That's the best unit at ~500 points a piece? The Monolith is also apparently OP.

I'm not saying Casual gaming is bad. Far from it. I'm speaking from the point of 'If everyone has the same amount of money, the game is far, far different', and that's pretty terrible if you ask me.

I know the game is expensive. I'm fully aware. And I live in Australia where the prices are stupidly high for no reason (well, there are a few reasons, but they aren't good ones). But, to the point where how much money everyone has directly affects the state of the meta-game...Yeah.

I don't know. Just rambling on from something I saw earlier today. I'm sure somebody can make it more coherent.

[Tarinaky]

I always thought Vindicators were better than Predators anyway because it's hard to beat a Demolisher Cannon.

[Renegade Paladin]

In my own metagame, I'm the only major mechanized list player because I have a fairly high-paying job while most of the rest of the people in the local game store's club are either high school students or working at Wal-Mart and/or a fast food joint. We have people with mech lists come from out of town for our tournaments (they're considered good because prizes are awarded in store credit, rather than merchandise that the winner may or may not want or need like many other tournaments in the region), but for casual play, the closest I think we get is the other Guard player with his all of five chassis, and while everyone wants to play Apocalypse, I'm the only one running around with a superheavy. Income really does make a huge difference.

Sadly for my win/loss ratio, I don't have a lot of time for casual play due to the schedule of my fairly high-paying job, so I go to tournaments and get roflstomped by people with tank-heavy lists and years more experience instead.

[Cheesegear]

I always thought Vindicators were better than Predators anyway because it's hard to beat a Demolisher Cannon.

Cover saves. After (or before, sometimes) that, the First-Turn Tank-Kill of your choice. A Vindicator has to move forwards to shoot. Moving forwards, generally means getting into Melta range or being able to be Assaulted by Power Fists, and both of those are terrible ideas. Especially since if you're not Blood Angels, you're only moving 6" a turn.

Predators, on the other hand, are themselves, a First-Turn Tank-Kill with Las-sponsons, and don't have to move forwards to do it.

[Renegade Paladin]

Thunderwolf cavalry can assault 24" if they get lucky running, but I can't think of much else that can that can also take power fists. (Though of course I don't know every Codex, so there might be something out there.) Keeping a Demolisher cannon out of assault range for most things while still being able to shoot is a matter of a practiced eye for distance more than anything else.

[Cheesegear]

Keeping a Demolisher cannon out of assault range for most things while still being able to shoot is a matter of a practiced eye for distance more than anything else.

Yeah, but Guard Demolisher Cannons come attached to Leman Russes and have RA 11. Marine Demolishers are attached to Rhinos.

[BoSheck]

but I can't think of much else that can that can also take power fists.

Doesn't have to be a fist, just has to be able to punch rear armor I'm usually happy enough with a stun or weapon destroyed anyway. Rough Riders probably work fine for that. Beastmasters too? I believe we had a discussion about Space Wolf Auxillaries and the hilarity of wolf-mounted rough riders. While Assault Marines and bikes can grab 18", thats still quite a bit and they're probably packing melta if they can't make the full two feet anyway. Terminators in a Land Raider are capable of getting farther than you think if your opponent knows what he's doing--park the landraider sideways on your starting line, pivot for free, full tilt forward, disembark the closest one at maximum distance and then charge--You can probably get a good 22" that way. Even more if roads are involved. Stormravens, of course, go further, but that is their job. All those are at least vaguely threatening to a Vindicator. Most of them to a Demolisher.

[Ricky S]

Cheese you are as apt as always. Your current casual play metagame describes my local store perfectly.

I have noticed that everyone goes for infantry heavy armies with only a few supporting tanks. I myself have have two such armies. My tau with only a hammerhead and devilfish and my space marines with only a razorback.

Only now that I have a job and have experienced the game more am I building a fully mechanised army but its kind of a moot point anyway because I am building it for casual play.

Oh and to push my blood angels army up to 1500pts I am thinking of
-2x Baal predator with flamestorm cannon
-2x vindicator

[Tome]

Yeah, my local metagame fits the casual mould as well. The only people who have competitive lists are two Guard players, both of whom run Mech lists. Everything else is fairly casual hybrid lists.

[Timberwolf]

While Assault Marines and bikes can grab 18", thats still quite a bit and they're probably packing melta if they can't make the full two feet anyway. Terminators in a Land Raider are capable of getting farther than you think if your opponent knows what he's doing--park the landraider sideways on your starting line, pivot for free, full tilt forward, disembark the closest one at maximum distance and then charge--You can probably get a good 22" that way. Even more if roads are involved. Stormravens, of course, go further, but that is their job. All those are at least vaguely threatening to a Vindicator. Most of them to a Demolisher.

Something like a Vindicator stands an excellent chance of dieing to a shot in the side from any of these options before assault. especially anything packing melta, which they all have the potential to do unless you take the infamous schizophrenic Landraider and even then, I think they might be able to as well. A Russ has far more chance of surviving that to be assaulted.

[Hawkfrost000]

Wow, i feel kinda sorry for you guys with your casual vs compeditive metagame.

I probably have the most casual metagame in my store and i run a Vulcan Drop Pod list.

My store's painted models only rule may have something to do with that though.

anyway ive been working on this list here:

Spoiler

Show

Traitor guard 1250 points

HQ

Cersi Fearblade
Carapace Armor
Power Fist
Melta Bombs
100

Fearbringers
Company Command Squad
Astropath
Powerfist
Bolt Pistol
MediPack
Regimental Standard
2 Plasmaguns
172

Troops

Bloody 7th
Infantry Platoon 1: 320

Platoon Command
Power Weapon
Bolt Pistol
Commisar w Power Weapon
Vox Caster
Lascannon
112

Infantry Squad
Lascannon
70

Infantry Squad
Lascannon
70

Infantry Squad
Lascannon
70

Broken 13th

Infantry squad 2: 230

Platoon Command
Power Weapon
Bolt Pistol
Commisar w Power Weapon
Vox Caster
Autocannon
112

Infantry Squad
Autocannon
60

Infantry Squad
Autocannon
60

Fast Attack

Farwalkers
3 Scout Sentinels
Heavy Flamers
Searchlights
123

Heavy Support

Skullhammer
Leman Russ Battle Tank
150

Xerkor Tormentor
Leman Russ Battle Tank
150

1249pts

Both the infantry platoons will be combined squads

what do you think?

DM

[Craftworld]

Wow, i feel kinda sorry for you guys with your casual vs compeditive metagame.

I probably have the most casual metagame in my store and i run a Vulcan Drop Pod list.

My store's painted models only rule may have something to do with that though.

anyway ive been working on this list here:

Spoiler

Show

Traitor guard 1250 points

HQ

Cersi Fearblade
Carapace Armor
Power Fist
Melta Bombs
100

Fearbringers
Company Command Squad
Astropath
Powerfist
Bolt Pistol
MediPack
Regimental Standard
2 Plasmaguns
172

Troops

Bloody 7th
Infantry Platoon 1: 320

Platoon Command
Power Weapon
Bolt Pistol
Commisar w Power Weapon
Vox Caster
Lascannon
112

Infantry Squad
Lascannon
70

Infantry Squad
Lascannon
70

Infantry Squad
Lascannon
70

Broken 13th

Infantry squad 2: 230

Platoon Command
Power Weapon
Bolt Pistol
Commisar w Power Weapon
Vox Caster
Autocannon
112

Infantry Squad
Autocannon
60

Infantry Squad
Autocannon
60

Fast Attack

Farwalkers
3 Scout Sentinels
Heavy Flamers
Searchlights
123

Heavy Support

Skullhammer
Leman Russ Battle Tank
150

Xerkor Tormentor
Leman Russ Battle Tank
150

1249pts

Both the infantry platoons will be combined squads

what do you think?

DM

Your store only allows people that have painted models to play there, or am I misinterpreting this?

[Hawkfrost000]

Your store only allows people that have painted models to play there, or am I misinterpreting this?

You got it in one.

"painted to tournament standard" is the rule of thumb. There is however a "curse of the unpainted model" at my store, unpainted models rarely survive past the second turn, and most players will go out of their way to kill unpainted models first.

To play at my store you need: painted army, codex/armybook, rulebook and army list.

DM

[Craftworld]

You got it in one.

"painted to tournament standard" is the rule of thumb. There is however a "curse of the unpainted model" at my store, unpainted models rarely survive past the second turn, and most players will go out of their way to kill unpainted models first.

To play at my store you need: painted army, codex/armybook, rulebook and army list.

DM

I understand why it is done, but...wow...at my store that is only enforced at Tournies, and if you bring out unpainted or even proxied models, who cares! I like my store.

[Hawkfrost000]

I understand why it is done, but...wow...at my store that is only enforced at Tournies, and if you bring out unpainted or even proxied models, who cares! I like my store.

Well that's kind of our stores thing; people who have nicely painted armies and want to play against nicely painted armies come here.

I'm the youngest and newest there and I've been playing since I was 12 (so 3 years). All 3 of my armies a are fully painted with another two in the works. There are lots of stores in my area so if you don't have a painted army you can play somewhere else.

I like my store too.

[IthilanorStPete]

Brainstorming ideas for a Grey Knights Coteaz list. Say, 1500 points.

Obviously Coteaz, so that's 100 pts. I was thinking on some comments Cheesegear made about Death-Cult Assassins in Stormravens. Let's say, one squad of 9 Death-Cult and 3 Crusaders (to soak up wounds with their storm shields, though maybe this isn't a good idea), which is 180 points. With a Stormraven, that's 385 points, with no upgrades on the Stormraven. We can have another one of these squads easily, replacing one Assassin with an Ordos Xenos Inquisitor, equipped with, oh...power sword, power armor, and most notably, rad grenades. That's 58 points for him personally, so the total squad (with Stormraven) is 428 points, bringing our list total to 913 points.

Not sure where to go from here. Perhaps some objective camping warbands with Jokaero? Or just normal GK strike squads, outfitted for longer-range combat? By all means, please weigh in.

[Ricky S]

I think having to have a fully painted army is a bit unfair. What about when you just start an army? It means you cannot play it until you have finished painting your entire army. Like now for example I have just started a new army. I have just built it but wouldn't be able to play for another 4-5 weeks while I paint it. Seems a bit pointless.

I have no problem with unpainted armies as long as they are making progress each time you see them.

[lord_khaine]

Brainstorming ideas for a Grey Knights Coteaz list. Say, 1500 points.

Obviously Coteaz, so that's 100 pts. I was thinking on some comments Cheesegear made about Death-Cult Assassins in Stormravens. Let's say, one squad of 9 Death-Cult and 3 Crusaders (to soak up wounds with their storm shields, though maybe this isn't a good idea), which is 180 points. With a Stormraven, that's 385 points, with no upgrades on the Stormraven. We can have another one of these squads easily, replacing one Assassin with an Ordos Xenos Inquisitor, equipped with, oh...power sword, power armor, and most notably, rad grenades. That's 58 points for him personally, so the total squad (with Stormraven) is 428 points, bringing our list total to 913 points.

Not sure where to go from here. Perhaps some objective camping warbands with Jokaero? Or just normal GK strike squads, outfitted for longer-range combat? By all means, please weigh in.

One of my friends experimented a bit with that, and found out a 1/1 mix of assasins and Crusaders made for a stupidly effective unit, that could both soak up a lot of damage in a melee, and deliver a really brutal beating to meq units.

[FlyingScanian]

anyway ive been working on this list here:

Well, I can certainly offer a few opinions...

Spoiler

Show

HQ

Cersi Fearblade
Carapace Armor
Power Fist
Melta Bombs
100

The powerfist feels risky, since he's, quite frankly, a weak independent character. Also, the carapace could probably be replaced with a camo cloak, thus granting stealth to one of your infantry blobs...

Fearbringers
Company Command Squad
Astropath
Powerfist
Bolt Pistol
MediPack
Regimental Standard
2 Plasmaguns
172

Once more a power fist, only this time it's attached to six guardsmen (albeit one with extra wounds). Still, most enemies where the powerfist would be useful would probably be more than capable of seeing of the threat before it goes off...
As for the Astropath, why? The only thing you have outflanking is your sentinels. I would venture to say that you either should remove it or get more outlfanking units...
Finally, why the bolt pistol? It's just a waste of points that rarely is going to make a difference...

Troops

Bloody 7th
Infantry Platoon 1: 320

Platoon Command
Power Weapon
Bolt Pistol
Commisar w Power Weapon
Vox Caster
Lascannon
112

Infantry Squad
Lascannon
70

Infantry Squad
Lascannon
70

Infantry Squad
Lascannon
70

You do realize that the command squad can't be combined into the big blob, right? Cause right now, it would seem that you don't.
TO fix this, move the commisar to one of the infantry squads, were he'll do a bit more good, and get a vox in there as well (or remove the vox in the command squad)
Also, once more you have a bolt pistol. This is even more harmless here...
The Power weapon would perhaps be nice if it was combined into the blob, but as is, it's in no way dangerous. Either the enemy will trounce your five little guardsmen before they get to swing, or the enemy won't CARE if a few of your attacks ignore its armour save.
As for the infantry squads, perhaps consider a special weapon, either plasma or a humble grenade launcher?
Finally, consider utilizing the command squads ability to take more special weapons by decking them out with three of the same. The exact kind doesn't really matter. I'm partial to grenade launchers, but melta or flamers could be equally good.

Broken 13th

Infantry squad 2: 230

Platoon Command
Power Weapon
Bolt Pistol
Commisar w Power Weapon
Vox Caster
Autocannon
112

Infantry Squad
Autocannon
60

Infantry Squad
Autocannon
60

This is pretty much the same as above, so the same advice applies, except that grenade launchers are even more welcome in the infatry squads now.

Fast Attack

Farwalkers
3 Scout Sentinels
Heavy Flamers
Searchlights
123

Exactly how do you intend to use these? The heavy flamers says that you want to get close, but then you basically have to outflank (despite being in Fast Attack, sentinels do not move around fast), making the searchlights useless... I would recommend to exchange the flamers for multilasers or autocannons, and remove the searchlights. Then, you can either use them to take out light armour from turn one, or outflank them for side/rear shots and/or taking out enemy artillery units.

Heavy Support

Skullhammer
Leman Russ Battle Tank
150

Xerkor Tormentor
Leman Russ Battle Tank
150

Well, not really much one can say here.

[Erloas]

I have no problem with unpainted armies as long as they are making progress each time you see them.

The last part is the crux of the problem though. No two people paint at the same speed and will make anything near a similar amount of progress over a given period of time. If someone plays infantry guard and gets 1 guy painted a week they are making progress but they could still take 4 years to get the army fully painted. Of course someone else could get that same army painted in a month or two, if the second person painted nothing for 1-2 years then paints it all at once, well thats worse because they weren't making any progress for a long time but in the end they were done much earlier.

But as people get used to seeing and playing with unpainted units and armies it gets easier to just accept and harder to get mad at someone else for using them.

The problem I have is that I've gotten to the point that I don't want any of my models to have a mediocre paint job, even my basic troops I'll put some effort into. And I really like how they are coming out but its too much work for quick 5-15 minutes paint sessions and I don't have the time (that I want to dedicate to gaming) at this point to give units the hours they need to be at the standard I want. So nothing ever really gets done, which I realize is rather ironic that I would rather play with just primers models then poorly painted ones, but thats what it is.

And I do know that if I was required to paint the models to play, I might only be playing 500 point games now but I would at least have the incentive to get more done.

[Winterwind]

Not sure where to go from here. Perhaps some objective camping warbands with Jokaero? Or just normal GK strike squads, outfitted for longer-range combat? By all means, please weigh in.

Well, I still want to see this "mass template Chimera"-concept I came up with once tried sometime, even though it can hardly be considered serious:
A Chimera has 5 firepoints and can take 12 passengers, right? So now let's take full advantage of both. 8 Psykers give you an S10 AP1 5" explosion, and only take up one firepoint. Three firepoints can be taken up by Servitors with Plasma Cannons. That leaves room for one more passenger, which can conveniently be the Inquisitor to negate the Servitors' Lobotomized rule... and if it's an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor, s/he can be equipped with a Conversion Beam for yet another powerful explosion.
Probably not all that powerful, and it gets screwed over by something like Eldar Runes of Warding real hard, but utterly hilarious.


EDIT: Heh. Regarding the whole "painted models only"-thing, I find Erloas' post so utterly mirroring my own current situation that I'm starting to suspect he is actually me from the future, or something.

[Tome]

Welp, I tried out a couple of Land Raiders today. They're definitely not compatible with my list. The Terminators are durable enough as it is, have frag grenades already and want to shoot a bit before they assault. If I were running a Death Cult Assassin unit, then I'd take them. The firepower of the Land Raider wasn't enough to justify it on it's own. If I go up against a gunline, the one time I want to plunge into assault as quickly as possible, I can always Deep Strike/Outflank them.

I might give a Stormraven a try next. The Mindstrike Missiles seem like they'd be a good way to take out Psychic Hoods/Runes of Warding and they've got a bit more dakka.

[Tarinaky]

Welp, I tried out a couple of Land Raiders today. They're definitely not compatible with my list. The Terminators are durable enough as it is, have frag grenades already and want to shoot a bit before they assault. If I were running a Death Cult Assassin unit, then I'd take them. The firepower of the Land Raider wasn't enough to justify it on it's own. If I go up against a gunline, the one time I want to plunge into assault as quickly as possible, I can always Deep Strike/Outflank them.

I might give a Stormraven a try next. The Mindstrike Missiles seem like they'd be a good way to take out Psychic Hoods/Runes of Warding and they've got a bit more dakka.

Since when did Terminators have grenades?

[Tome]

Since when did Terminators have grenades?

I play Grey Knights. GK Termies come with Frag, Krak and Psyk-Out Grenades as standard.

[Hootman]

...Guys...I had a thought. More of an idea, really. A dangerous idea.

So, orks. Specifically, ork Kommandos with Boss Snikrot.

Ambush: Snikrot's mastery of guerilla tactics is legendary. If the owning player chooses, Snikrot and his unit may be held in Reserve. When Snikrot and his unit become available from Reserve, they may move on from any table edge.

Now, I know that a unit can only give the ability to outflank to Dedicated Transports (I checked), but this isn't outflank, it's a special rule. Ambush. So, here's my idea.

15 Kommandos (2 Burnas) + Snikrot + Battlewagon with Deffrolla. Include other upgrades as desired.

Can this monster unit come on as a single Ambushing unit? I know you can embark infantry onto non-dedicated transports while still in reserve, and they come on as a single unit, so it SEEMS like I should be able to do it. And I know I can include an HQ (probably taking a PK-Warboss and adding a Boarding Plank) in Snikrot's crew and Ambush with them, so do you think this would work? And aside from 'For The Lulz', do you think it would be worth it?

[Tarinaky]

You need a reason other than lulz? What kinda Ork iz ya?!

[Craftworld]

...Guys...I had a thought. More of an idea, really. A dangerous idea.

So, orks. Specifically, ork Kommandos with Boss Snikrot.


Now, I know that a unit can only give the ability to outflank to Dedicated Transports (I checked), but this isn't outflank, it's a special rule. Ambush. So, here's my idea.

15 Kommandos (2 Burnas) + Snikrot + Battlewagon with Deffrolla. Include other upgrades as desired.

Can this monster unit come on as a single Ambushing unit? I know you can embark infantry onto non-dedicated transports while still in reserve, and they come on as a single unit, so it SEEMS like I should be able to do it. And I know I can include an HQ (probably taking a PK-Warboss and adding a Boarding Plank) in Snikrot's crew and Ambush with them, so do you think this would work? And aside from 'For The Lulz', do you think it would be worth it?

You might be able to make it better by instead of a Power Klaw Warboss, a KFF Big Mek with a Power Klaw. Not sure because it takes away a Big Mek from the rest of your army but this seems to make sense to me.

[Hootman]

...So, I have way more orks than I thought. Enough that I'm seriously considering running them for the semi-finals of 'Ard Boyz, because I don't think people will be as prepared to face the Green Tide, and it will be FUN. I know 'Ard Boyz isn't about having fun, but that doesn't mean I'm not allowed to try.

This is the list, based on what I know I have and what I think I can convert. I'm willing to spend a little money if I "need" something, or to convert things in as-yet un-thought-of ways, but I figured I'd try to get a head start on this (2 weeks until the tourney is a head start for me).

ORKS, 2500 POINTS

Spoiler

Show

HQ
Warboss, 105pts
-Powerklaw, Shoota/Skorcha, Cybork Body, Bosspole
(In the Battle Wagon)

Weirdboy, 85pts
-Warphead
(In a Looted Wagon)

ELITES
Kommandos 15, 265pts
-2 Burnas
-Boss Snikrot
(In the Battle Wagon)

TROOPS
Nobz 9, 615pts
-Nob Bikers, geared in the spoiler.

Spoiler

Show

Nob, 70
-Bike, Powerklaw

Nob, 75
-Bike, Powerklaw, Shoota/Skorcha

Nob, 80
-Bike, Powerklaw, Shoota/Skorcha, Bosspole

Nob, 90
-Bike, Powerklaw, Shoota/Skorcha, Waaagh! Banner

Nob, 60
-Bike, Big Choppa, Shoota/Skorcha, Bosspole

Nob, 55
-Bike, Big Choppa, Shoota/Skorcha

Nob, 53
-Bike, Big Choppa, Ammo Runt

Nob, 50
-Bike, Big Choppa

Nob, 80
-Bike, Painboy, Grot Orderly

Ork Boyz 30, 220pts
-Sluggas & Choppas
-Nob with Powerklaw & Bosspole

Ork Boyz 11, 106pts
-Sluggas & Choppas
-Nob with Powerklaw & Bosspole
(In a Looted Wagon)

Ork Boyz 11, 106pts
-Sluggas & Choppas
-Nob with Powerklaw & Bosspole
(In a Looted Wagon)

Ork Boyz 20, 170pts
-Shootas, 2 Big Shootas
-Nob with Powerklaw & Bosspole

Ork Boyz 20, 170pts
-Shootas, 2 Big Shootas
-Nob with Powerklaw & Bosspole

FAST ATTACK
Warbuggies 3, 135pts
-3 Skorchas, Red Paint

Warbuggies 3, 135pts
-3 Skorchas, Red Paint

Warbuggies 3, 135pts
-3 Skorchas, Red Paint

HEAVY SUPPORT
Battlewagon, 140pts
-Deff Rolla, Red Paint, Grot Riggers, Boarding Plank, ZZap Gun

Looted Wagon, 70pts
-Skorcha, Big Shoota, Red Paint Job, Grot Riggers, Reinforced Ram

Looted Wagon, 70pts
-Skorcha, Big Shoota, Red Paint Job, Grot Riggers, Reinforced Ram

This list is unfinished (I think it's 2527 points, which is just a few too many), but it's essentially done. Now I'd like some critiques and suggestions, if you'd be so kind, before I get into the business of hacking off whatever limbs will save me that handful of points.

[Cheesegear]

...Guys...I had a thought. More of an idea, really. A dangerous idea.

15 Kommandos (2 Burnas) + Snikrot + Battlewagon with Deffrolla. Include other upgrades as desired.

Can this monster unit come on as a single Ambushing unit? I know you can embark infantry onto non-dedicated transports while still in reserve, and they come on as a single unit, so it SEEMS like I should be able to do it.

No. Since the Battlewagon is not part of Snikrot's unit. They are separate units entries. Snikrot has a specific rule for his unit. A Battlewagon is a separate unit for all intents and purposes.

When embarking in a non-Dedicated Transport, you can usually do that because neither unit (Infantry nor Vehicle) has any special rules that say that they can't do that, as in, everything enters as normal Reserves.

Scouts and Land Speeder Storms can go Outflank at the same time because both have the same rules, and that's how they can be deployed together.