Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"

[13_CBS]

This was what I thought was why people hated that part. If any part of 4chan is included in this...I understand immediately why this has gotten so big. Thank you for that explanation.

One more thing, as a FYI: IIRC, fluff that happened in the videogames are NOT considered canon. I haven't read the Dawn of War books yet (and I have no desire to ), but I don't think they mention the IG/Eldar alliance from Winter Assault there, and therefore there is no record of the IG and Eldar allying on Lorn IV, or wherever that game took place.

[Cheesegear]

Thing is, I'm not sure what list to bring. My local metagame is pretty casual, and thus so are my lists for that, not to mention at a different points level entirely.

So bring a stompy list and win?

The tournament is 1750 points and has restrictions on Elite/Fast Attack/Heavy Support slots (can't take a second slot of one until all three have one unit in, same for the third slot).

This is a rubbish restriction and tournaments that try to impose Composition, rather than just give a Comp Score are completely terrible. Any time a TO forces Composition, I immediately break it. 60 Scouts wins most tournaments like this. Opponents just don't have the resources to deal with that many models and/or units.

It just means that Troop-spam wins the game. Tyranids and Imperial Guard especially. If I know Space Wolves can't bring 18 Long Fangs to the table, and Marines in general can't bring 3 Dreads, Land Speeders and/or Preds, then my 3 Tervigons (as Troops, by the way), will be laughing the whole game. It's also rubbish because most Fast Attack units in the game are junk which means a lot of armies will barely even have two units of anything.

Also, Dark Angel Hammernator spam is literally unkillable in this tournament format. Nothing at all can deal with them.

Personally, due to tournament restrictions, I believe that both GK Terminators and Tau are just bad choices. You can't back up your Terminators with trip-Dreadknights or 'Noughts. You just wont have the fire support that Terminators need.
Same with Tau. Without 3 Hammerheads, or multiple Broadsides, or minimum-9 Crisis Suits you're in trouble.

Basically, everyone at the tournament is going to get facerolled by MSU Razorspam. Or Infantry Guard. Or 'Nid Swarms. But, it's a 'casual' environment and I don't really know what that means, except that it usually means badly thought-out All-Infantry armies. I don't know. I know a number of 'casual gamers' who frequently tell me that Tau are OP, so, go with them.

EDIT:
Hmm. At 1750 though, Tau can probably do it if you just simply take 3x65 point Piranhas, 3x~180 Hammerheads, then spend the rest on Crisis Suits you're probably good.

[Borgh]

Bring Black Templar swarm, watch grown men cry.

[Talkkno]

One more thing, as a FYI: IIRC, fluff that happened in the videogames are NOT considered canon. I haven't read the Dawn of War books yet (and I have no desire to ), but I don't think they mention the IG/Eldar alliance from Winter Assault there, and therefore there is no record of the IG and Eldar allying on Lorn IV, or wherever that game took place.

Cite source for noncanoncity? And Frankly I don't think Goto is that bad, he just writes Eldar really bad.

[Trixie]

Let me post 2 links to other parts of this forum:

>one<

>two<

And a finisher

[Eldan]

So, after not having played any 40k for years, I'm thinking about getting back into it. Mostly because I start hearing rumours of a new Eldar codex.

I was looking around on the net, and I found Forgeworld conversion kits for Eldar corsairs. They don't like any forgeworld "not sanctified" rules, so, my question:
Are there any official rules for Eldar corsairs anywhere?

If yes, I think I know what my next army project will be. A ranger/corsair force.

[Renegade Paladin]

Let me post 2 links to other parts of this forum:

>one<

>two<

And a finisher

[pilvento]

My friends, i have a tournament by the end of november, 1500pts

The meta here is lots of G.I. tank and guerrilla, tryranids, orcs and necron.

Im going to play this list, im so dam proud of it i cant belive i got all the miniatures.

Spoiler

Show

Farseer on bike, fortune and doom.
3 warloks on bike, destructor*2, and the one that lets you rerol leadership

Asurmen,
10 avengers. serpernt with brigtlances, vector engines and stones.

6 guardians on bikes, 2 shuriken cannons
warlock on bike, +1ha +1i to the squad

6 guardians on bikes, 2 shuriken cannons
warlock on bike, +1ha +1i to the squad

Vyper, Starcannon, Shuriken Cannon
Vyper, Starcannon, Shuriken Cannon
Vyper, Starcannon, Shuriken Cannon

So fast, so furious, so deadly.

[Tome]

>Snip<

By casual, I mean no one really brings competitive lists to games. Though that's my local meta though, the tournament is likely to be a bit different.

It didn't seem too hard to deal with the restrictions for Tau. Normally I'd want three slots of Crisis Suits, three slots of Broadsides/Hammerheads and two FA slots with Pathfinders/cheap Piranhas. So basically the list I'd be bringing anyway.

Grey Knights would be another matter entirely, of course. I can see how it would be hard to get ranged firepower into a list with the restrictions.

Yeah, I think I'll give my Tau a try.

EDIT Here's what I reckon I'll try. It's basically my normal list streamlined and expanded.

Spoiler

Show

HQ
Shas'El Commander - 143 Points
Airbursting Fragmentation Projector, Cyclic Ion Blaster, Targetting Array
Hard-Wired Blacksun Filter, Hard-Wired Drone Controller, Hard-Wired Multi-Tracker, Stimulant Injector
+Shield Drones (x2)

ELITE
XV8 Crisis Team (x2) - 124 Points
Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle, Multi-Tracker

XV8 Crisis Team (x2) - 124 Points
Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle, Multi-Tracker

XV8 Crisis Team (x2) - 124 Points
Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle, Multi-Tracker

TROOPS
Fire Warrior Team (x6) - 60 Points

Kroot Carnivore Squad (x10) - 70 Points

Kroot Carnivore Squad (x10) - 70 Points

Kroot Carnivore Squad (x10) - 70 Points

FAST ATTACK
Pathfinder Team (x5) - 145 Points
+Devilfish, Disruption Pod

Piranha Light Skimmer Team (x2) - 140 Points
Fusion Blaster x2, Disruption Pods

Piranha Light Skimmer Team (x1) - 70 Points
Fusion Blaster x1, Disruption Pods

HEAVY SUPPORT
XV88 Broadside Team (x3) - 280 Points
Advanced Stabilisation System
Team Leader, Hard-Wired Drone Controller, Hard-Wired Target Lock
+Shield Drones (x2)

Hammerhead Gunship - 165 Points
Railgun, Burst Cannons x2, Disruption Pod, Multi-Tracker

Hammerhead Gunship - 165 Points
Railgun, Burst Cannons x2, Disruption Pod, Multi-Tracker

TOTAL: 1750

Standard Tau tactics. The Fire Warriors hide inside the Pathfinders' Devilfish, the Kroot and Piranhas act as movement blockers and screens, the Broadsides, Hammerheads and Crisis Suits do the work of actually killing things.

[Etcetera]

My friends, i have a tournament by the end of november, 1500pts

The meta here is lots of G.I. tank and guerrilla, tryranids, orcs and necron.

Im going to play this list, im so dam proud of it i cant belive i got all the miniatures.

Spoiler

Show

Farseer on bike, fortune and doom.
3 warloks on bike, destructor*2, and the one that lets you rerol leadership

Asurmen,
10 avengers. serpernt with brigtlances, vector engines and stones.

6 guardians on bikes, 2 shuriken cannons
warlock on bike, +1ha +1i to the squad

6 guardians on bikes, 2 shuriken cannons
warlock on bike, +1ha +1i to the squad

Vyper, Starcannon, Shuriken Cannon
Vyper, Starcannon, Shuriken Cannon
Vyper, Starcannon, Shuriken Cannon

So fast, so furious, so deadly.

That's not a lot of models for 1500 points. I'd drop the Shuriken Cannon and Starcannon from the Vypers and give them a Scatter Laser: Starcannon suffer from the current abundance of cover saves, and vypers should be moving 12" most of the time anyway to use your speed to your advantage.

I'm not sure of the purpose of Enhance on the Jetbike Guardians, it's true it gives them slightly more CC ability, but they're S4 A1, so even with a warlock they lack the punch to break through even a tactical squad.

Unless you position it very well the Serpent is going to be a priority target and likely go down Turn 1 or 2, and if the DA are stuck in it at the time they're going to have to slog their way across the board. I'm also worried about your lack of offensive anti-tank: while it's true that Warlocks can mess up vehicles with their witchblades anything that moves more than 6" is going to present a problem for you.

Of course, it's your army, and you've already bought the models, so feel free to disregard this, but I'd probably drop Asurmen and the Seer Council, squadron some of the Vypers and take a Fire Prism or two and some Shining Spears.

[Zorg]

So, after not having played any 40k for years, I'm thinking about getting back into it. Mostly because I start hearing rumours of a new Eldar codex.

I was looking around on the net, and I found Forgeworld conversion kits for Eldar corsairs. They don't like any forgeworld "not sanctified" rules, so, my question:
Are there any official rules for Eldar corsairs anywhere?

If yes, I think I know what my next army project will be. A ranger/corsair force.

Rules are coming out in Imperial Armour 11, due end of the year/early next year. Forge World rules are as official as anything else in any other book, it's a matter of how narrow minded your opponent is.

As a slight tangent it always amuses me how 'hardcore' players don't like Forge World, as they'll need to buy books to prepare against it... if they're such a good player shouldn't they be able to adjust on the fly?

[Eldan]

Ah. Good, then. So far, they didn't even have FW rules for those corsairs. But I find the idea of jump pack troops for Eldar (which is what they seem to be) intriguing.

Of course, I also like my two units of pathfinders, and my jetbikes...

Gah. I really can't fit everything I want into a decently sized army. And that's without cool things I might otherwise like, like Wasp Walkers.

[Renegade Paladin]

Ah. Good, then. So far, they didn't even have FW rules for those corsairs. But I find the idea of jump pack troops for Eldar (which is what they seem to be) intriguing.

Of course, I also like my two units of pathfinders, and my jetbikes...

Gah. I really can't fit everything I want into a decently sized army. And that's without cool things I might otherwise like, like Wasp Walkers.

Play Apocalypse?

[Etcetera]

Gah. I really can't fit everything I want into a decently sized army. And that's without cool things I might otherwise like, like Wasp Walkers.

WAAAASSPP WAAAALLLKERS

Interestingly, the models are entirely resin, and with a lot more articulation and posing options, so they're a decent purchase over War Walkers despite the higher cost.

[Eldan]

Play Apocalypse?

Then I'd probably also need a few superheavies.

And I'd already need to re-purchase half the army. I'm a poor, poor student, I can't afford that

[Zorg]

Interestingly, the models are entirely resin,

They're not actually, the legs and waist are, as it the canopy and the jets, but the carapace and cockpit are the same.

and with a lot more articulation and posing options, so they're a decent purchase over War Walkers despite the higher cost.

The knees have two points they are set to normally, but it wouldn't be too hard to mod them further. Ankles and hips are ball joints.

They're significantly cheaper than a standard WW in Australia. Given you get a complete WW kit, the resin and the Wave Serpent weapon sprue, that really makes my head hurt.

[Trixie]

And I'd already need to re-purchase half the army. I'm a poor, poor student, I can't afford that

Huh, I still remember time I was one.

IIRC, my efforts back then to point of some things were definitely overpriced and a few tricks I used to bring the cost of the models down were ridiculed as pointless by a few posters, some of who now protest the unfairly high prices. Irony, huh

Also, the above wasn't targeted on anyone in particular, seeing it was years ago anyway and times change. I hope no one feels offended ^^"

[Renegade Paladin]

Then I'd probably also need a few superheavies.

Eh. You can get by without them in 3,000-5,000 points or so. I played a 10,000 point game against Orks in cooperation with a Black Templars and a Space Wolves player my first time, and we only had one superheavy (my Baneblade) between the three of us, against three Stompas and a Skullhamma, and still pulled out a draw, with each side dominating about half the table.

[hamishspence]

Some of the newer Necron themes appeared in Fall of Damnos.

"Cryptek" masters of constructs.

"Lych-like guards" with warscythes.

"Tesla beams" on Destroyers.

"Destroy all life" being portrayed as an aberration, rather than the rule- something Destroyers have- and them being held in abhorrence by the rest of the necrons.

[Etcetera]

They're not actually, the legs and waist are, as it the canopy and the jets, but the carapace and cockpit are the same.




The knees have two points they are set to normally, but it wouldn't be too hard to mod them further. Ankles and hips are ball joints.

They're significantly cheaper than a standard WW in Australia. Given you get a complete WW kit, the resin and the Wave Serpent weapon sprue, that really makes my head hurt.

I stand corrected.

But yeah, the point still stands. They're cool and stuff and people should buy them.

[Cheesegear]

So, must be the Season of Apocalypse, since my game is coming up soon.

What's everyone's favourite unit/formation?

[Tome]

So, must be the Season of Apocalypse, since my game is coming up soon.

What's everyone's favourite unit/formation?

Manta Death Blow Cadre. Just because of the sheer ridiculousness of ever being able to field one.

On a more practical level, the Broadside Destructor Phalanx. Because screw Super-Heavies, I have Railguns.

[Eldan]

Skyreaver corsair raiding force, because the vampire is a damn cool looking model.

Not that i'd ever be able to afford one.

[Lowkey Lyesmith]

So, must be the Season of Apocalypse, since my game is coming up soon.

What's everyone's favourite unit/formation?

The "Imperial shield" Infantry company. You get another 3 Stratagems included and defensive fortifications and if you play IG you should already have that many models to beging with. So you don't have to do anything you werent planing already

[Tychris1]

So, must be the Season of Apocalypse, since my game is coming up soon.

What's everyone's favourite unit/formation?

Without Number/Heirophant Bio-Titan

[Eldan]

Is it me, or are Hornets a lot better than Vypers? Cost 10 points more, but can carry two heavy weapons, are not open-topped and better armoured, get the scout rule and free star engines.

[Cheesegear]

Is it me, or are Hornets a lot better than Vypers? Cost 10 points more, but can carry two heavy weapons, are not open-topped and better armoured, get the scout rule and free star engines.

It's probably one of the reasons people say "Forgeworld OP."

[Ricky S]

Knight titans are definately my fav Apoc unit. They are just so cool. I wish there were official rules for them though.

[Eldan]

It's probably one of the reasons people say "Forgeworld OP."

Guess so. Though from looking at specialized 40k forums, many people seem to be of the opinion that Vypers are too expensive and that Hornets are, basically, a proposed fix from the FW team.

[Arcanoi]

Guess so. Though from looking at specialized 40k forums, many people seem to be of the opinion that Vypers are too expensive and that Hornets are, basically, a proposed fix from the FW team.

Hornets, however, are much better than Vypers in every possible way. A lot of the things in Apoc aren't OP because they kill everything, they're just better than codex options for not enough more points, the same price, or even cheaper occasionally.