Doctor Who thread II: "I should have a hat like that." [SPOILERS]

[Reverent-One]

Spoilered just in case, since it's still talking about the "Year of Specials."

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And if the actors (and the writers and the directors et al.) are good at their jobs, then they create sympathetic feelings in the audience. It's not rational that this sympathy should then transfer from the character to the actor; but it's also not something most people can avoid doing, even if unconsciously. It's a pretty elementary bit of human psychology; so the extremely extended closing of "End of Time" indicates either extraordinary ignorance or truly breathtaking cynicism (not to mention unprofessionalism) on the part of the previous production team.

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Or that they had a story to tell and put that as their first priority (as is their job), having faith that people wouldn't have some extreme unintended reaction to it. Which, as the quality and ratings numbers you listed show, people didn't. So they knew exactly what they were doing and were correct.

Also, this doesn't actually have much do to with the point that I was responding to, which is that people assuming that since 10 didn't want go, Tennant is saying he didn't want to go either is somehow reasonable. Because it is not. Just like assuming that Freema Agyeman actually has a secret desire to be doctor (as in the medical kind), or Simon Pegg actually wants to enslave humanity and take over the galaxy. If the actor makes a comment about that actually being the case, that's one thing, but assuming something like that based solely on the fact that one of the characters they played felt that way? It's rather silly.

Did you miss my point to Sunken Valley about this? It doesn't qualify as the Doctor's greatest rise by his standards because it required bloodshed. Regardless of how technical his pacifism may be, or how it may in fact be pacificism, regardless of how many species he may have genocided, he doesn't like killing people. As such, most of his victories aren't really in the running for his greatest rise. Demons Run is, as would probably be the "Everybody lives" moment in The Doctor Dances.
Also, as has been noted, he changed his normal approach of making things up as he goes, instead called in a few favours and actually made a plan, and everything fell into place perfectly. Could be considered something of a rise from his usual haphazard means of operating.

The fact that he did it without bloodshed was the only reason for Demon's Run to even make a blip on the doctor's "Awesome-o-meter", and still isn't near enough to be his high point in my books. EDIT: Strike that, he didn't do it without bloodshed. By disguising himself as a monk and hiding among them, he created the situation where a marine opened fire on a monk, thinking he was the doctor. The monks then began killing marines. He used this as a distraction to help capture the marines, so there was still bloodshed in his plan. That he actually sat down and made a plan is actually another point against it, since given what we've seen him be capable of with no chance to plan and all by himself, he should be capable of so much more when he actually plans and gathers allies.

[Sunken Valley]

or Simon Pegg actually wants to enslave humanity and take over the galaxy.

No need for want he already has. Phase two is beginning as we speak.

Now to respond to your comments

Season 2
Fear her was essential to Blink and Midnight because it was a low budget "scary" episode. It wasn't well polished and was improved for later years as the two best writers were put to work on the low budget scary ep.

Season 4

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By letting Jesus Doctor slide, I meant that people are praising this finale and saying it's good if you avoid Jesus Doctor. Which is true. People are not letting the supposed flaws of Season 4 slide.

@Thufir: We knew it couldn't be an Isolus stealing the planets because the preview promised Daleks. And we had a whole episode before the purpose of planet stealing was revealed.

Two more points which I forgot to say earlier.

One, I agree with Super Panda that River's reveal was more akin to a fan-fic and that it would be bad if ganger doctor was the one that died. These are excellent points.

Also, found something in the Big Bang that needed technobabble. Amy remembering the Doctor back into existence.

And now to report on Day of the Moon.

Day of the Moon has a cool title. It's paradoxical because one does not asocciate day with moon (although it happens. Often in Summertime). First off there is the gap between astronaut and this. In the library two-parter, removing the action away from the immediate cliff hanger worked. Same with Big Bang. Not here though. Here it was bad. We would have liked to have seen what happened after Amy shot the astronaut, what happened when the Silent swarmed River and Rory and why it took them three months to get back together. In the same vein we would have liked to have seen what Amy and Rory said to River when she told them her identity. We did not. This is poor writing. At least Davies answered his cliffhangers.

Then there is the 3 months. Why is this needed? Why do they have to be on the run again? Why do they have to fake their deaths? Why was the Doctor locked up? And how come he knows so much about the Silent? Will we know any of this information? Big fat No.

Here's another one. Nixon. How did they manage to pull that off without looking suspicious? Fun fact, among the wacky Nazi's plans to win the war was to kidnap Churchill and replace him with a look alike. Who says that this mysterious Nixon coming out of nowhere was a look a like? No one questions it. And Nixon is so calm about it to.

The hints towards the girls identity were painfully obvious and were the ones that spoiled River's identity.

Then there is the Silent kidnapping Amy. Why did they need to kidnap a ganger? I don't know, although we might know when the Silent return.

I'm not dwelling on the Doctor killing the Silent race.

Overall, so many questions which will never be answered.

Incidentally, there will be a delay in posting The Girl Who Waited review. Don't worry guys, I'll be watching it the same time as everyone else.

[Jibar]

People wanting someone to tear down the Doctor... I think you got your wish.

That was emotional.

[Archonic Energy]

Future Amy kicks Arse!

and is still hot.

[Aotrs Commander]

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Well, that was an interesting episode. Intense, but in a different way to what I expected. Eleven proves he can be just as ruthless as some of his earlier incarnations...



Also, what kind of crazy maniac designed those Appleapplechian (or however you'd spell it) hand-bots, me?! The secondary delivery medicine method is to shoot a needle with enough force to imbed it in a wall?! Overkill much? The Appleapplechains must have skin like Stone Golems, or something, all I can say...!)

[Mercenary Pen]

Past Amy, if nothing else you are taking sword lessons- it has been decided.

[CurlyKitGirl]

Koorly's Archive of Her Doctor Who Write Ups:
Classic Who

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Fourth Doctor

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Series Twelve
Genesis of the Daleks Part 1/6, Part 2/6

Nu Who

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Season One - retrospective

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Brief Whole Series Retrospective

Season Two - retrospective

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Brief Whole Series Retrospective

Season Three - blind unless otherwise mentioned

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Ep. 1: 'Smith and Jones' -missing.
Ep. 2: 'The Shakespeare Code'
Ep. 3: 'Gridlock'
Ep. 4: 'Daleks in Manhattan' (part 1/2)
Ep. 5: 'Evolution of the Daleks' (part 2/2)
Ep. 6: 'The Lazarus Experiment'
Ep. 7: '42'
Ep. 8: 'Human Nature' (part 1/2)
Ep. 9: 'The Family of Blood' (part 2/2)
Ep. 10: 'Blink'
Ep. 11: 'Utopia' (part 1/3)
Ep. 12: 'The Sound of the Drums' (part 2/3)
Ep. 13: 'The Last of the Time Lords' (part 3/3)

Children in Need 2007 episode: 'Time Crash'
2007 Christmas Episode: 'Voyage of the Damned'

Bits and Bobs About Season Three
Retrospective - to be written later
Why I Do Not Like Martha/Ten (This was written between my write ups of ep. 8 and ep 9)

Season Four blind unless otherwise mentioned

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Ep. 1: 'Partners in Crime'
Ep. 2: 'The Fires of Pompeii'
Ep. 3: 'Planet of the Ood'
Ep. 4: 'The Sontaran Stratagem' Part 1/2
Ep. 5: ‘The Poison Sky‘ Part 2/2
Ep. 6: ‘The Doctor‘s Daughter‘ Posted in two parts.
Ep. 7: 'The Unicorn and the Wasp'

Season 6 part 2
Ep. 8: 'Let's Kill Hitler'
Ep. 9: 'Night Terrors'
Ep 10: 'The Girl Who Waited'

The Nu Who Trek continues. And now, to boldly go where many have gone before. [*cue TNG theme (I love that theme song so much)*]

'The Girl Who Waited' (season 6b, episode 10)

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Last time on these reviews: I had a . . . minor breakdown and couldn't exactly think.

So let's get on with the show.
Abbleappacheer? Voted second best place to visit in all the world. Number one's all coffee shops.
It's white. Lots of white.

And then there was shouting for Rory, and I dropped my fizzy pop all over the floor of mum's room, bursting it and getting sticky wet feet. So I cleaned it up.
But that's the exciting part of the story, not really the beginning at all. Thought I'd start there to get you interested in what really happened.
"CURLEEEEEE!!"
"What?!"
"Need you to go shop."
"WHAT?!"
"Need you to go shop."
"But my Who thing . . . "
"Need you to go Chinese too."
Curly gets up off the bed and stalks down the corridor, popping her head over the banister.
"You did this on purpose din't you?"
The villlain has an evil grin on her face, visible even through the darkness of the hallway. "No, called you at six, and quarter past, half past, quarter to,"
she trails off meaningfully as downstairs the dialogue from the show is almost understandable.
"Oh, fine."
Curly, our brave heroine hurries downstairs and gets ready to go out. "If I'm going Chinese I'm getting m'self one too."
Curly's jacket is as grey as the sky outside, reflecting her annoyed mood as she recites the villain's usual order. That or maybe her favourite jacket is grey and it's been piddling it down all day because it's Britain.
"Great, now I'm going to have to watch it on iPlayer later tonight." Then, suddenly, a thought occurred to her.
'What if I were to try to pull a 'Love and Monsters' on everyone. And presented it as an actual write up?' Since these are thoughts, not actual speech, you'll have to pretend you can read Curly's face like a book with very large print in Comic Sans.
So then Curly walked into the Co-op and smiled happily because the till boy was the really cute one who always knew what she wanted; she ordered her mum's fa - no wait, that's a rude term in America isn't it? - ciggies and grabbed some sweets for herself too.
These indicate her sweet nature, but also her poor impulse control as she's trying to lose weight. Or not, this is something of a subjective tale as always, and I can't really guarantee that my opinion on such a thing is the right one, or the one everyone else thinks of.
Reaching the Chinese she groaned, not enough money to get the pancake roll. Oh my giddy aunts! This is horrible!
So she placed her amended order, sat down and daydreamed. 'I think every Chinese take away place made in the 1970s looks pretty much the same. Very 70s décor.' This can't be read on her face because it's probably a bit rude and the family who runs the Chinese are very sweet.
Skipping the boring bits because there was a very long wait, Curly arrives home to a very dark house, and Mum bursts out of the room, shutting the door. "Hurry up, hurry up."
This shows that the episode was at a very exciting part.
She ushers Curly into the front room where the telly couldn't be heard and made her wait so she wouldn't be spoiled for her write ups.
Then Curly goes upstairs very quickly, slips, drops her fizzy pop and it bursts all over the floor. It gets cleaned up with minimal fuss, but great sadness because she likes her some fizzy pop.
Tipping out the Chinese on a plate, she sits down and begins typing up the writeup while searching for something on the internet.

Preview thoughts: I actually watch the episode.

Best Moment: Abbalappajeer.

Worst Moment: "CURLEEEEE! [...] Need you to go shop."

Best Special Effect: The sea was very pretty.

Worst Special Effect: I'm not a fan of 1970s orange-red wood panelling.

Best Actor: Me for tricking Little Sister into thinking one of the Little Brother's was in the loo when he wasn't.

Worst Actor: You could see Mum's dastardly plan from the outset.

Most Punchable Character: I can't punch my mum! So that pushy guy at the Co-op who pushed in front of me at the queue.

Number of Times Rose Is Mentioned:
None.

Thoughts overall?


I was trolled successfully by my mother. She would fit in on 4chan quite well.

And then there was shouting for Rory, and I dropped my fizzy pop all over the floor of mum's room, bursting it and getting sticky wet feet. So I cleaned it up.
But that's the exciting part of the story, not really the beginning at all.

And that's when things got a bit recursive on her so she stopped before her eyes went cross-eyed.

[Androgeus]

Must say a good job by the prosthetics department. Also seriously confidential, what does Karen driving a car around a race track have to do with anything?

Edit:Now Arthur is swimming with sharks. note to self: Confidential is still pointless

Edit 2 Electric Boogaloo:

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The Doctor says that if you know your future you can change it, hmmm... nah this is in no way related to the arc in any way.

[Jahkaivah]

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There you have it people, despite it's vast complexity and power, the TARDIS is unable to accept the existance of more than one Amy Pond.

Even though it had no trouble with more than one Doctor.



Also Rory Williams:

-Punched Adolf Hitler in the face.

-Utilised the Mona Lisa's combat applications.

[Androgeus]

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So The Mona Lisa is a painting painted with a sentient meteor, which had 6 extras commissioned and stored in a secret cellar in France to help finance a scheme that stops life on earth ever beginning, which was loaned to the national gallery where it came to life and tried to release another monster painted from the same meteor before being sent back to her frame to then be used as a weapon to delay a hand bot by Rory.
This is not complicated in the slightest.

[Thufir]

Oh my Goddess that episode.

That episode.

People wanting someone to tear down the Doctor... I think you got your wish.

That was emotional.

Yeah, I was going to say that.

'The Girl Who Waited' (season 6b, episode 10)

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Thoughts overall?


I was trolled successfully by my mother. She would fit in on 4chan quite well.

OK, I LOL'd. But I look forward to you actually writing up the episode itself.

Thoughts on the episode:

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As Jibar said and I agree, this definitely counts pretty damn hard for someone calling the Doctor on his mistakes. Of course, after this episode Amy is back to normal, but Rory? He knows what happened and I don't think he's going to just switch right back to thinking everything's fine.

It should be mentioned that while this was Amy and Rory's episode, Matt Smith still got in some good stuff as the Doctor. Acting like everything's fine when it's all gone horribly wrong, and betraying Old Amy at the last moment.
That said, Arthur Darvill and Karen Gillan really outshone him in this episode. It was their episode.

Rory interestingly enough not in badass Last Centurion mode, but much more as he was when he was introduced, cracking jokes to keep Amy smiling and calling out the Doctor on endangering people. But with more of the confidence gained since, and showing that there is definite interest and value in this side of his character as well (That is how he was when Amy fell in love with him after all).
Some brilliant little insights into their relationship, with Amy's little explanation of why he was the only one of all the guys chasing her she wanted. I'm going to have to rewatch that bit and take note of that quote because I love it so much.
And Amy reminds me why she is a fantastic companion in her own right. For all that she might refer to Rory and the Doctor as "her boys", Rory is my favourite companion and the Doctor is the star, while Amy is generally most interesting in her relationships with the two of them. But this episode really turned aside that viewpoint. Because whiel we're now back to regular young Amy, she still has the potential for that. She could become that sort of action hero character, and she has always had the willpower to back her through defying the laws of causality just to keep Rory happy, to keep her world as it should be.

Other points... break causality by doing the macarena, that was funny. One of the few funny moments in an otherwise serious and emotional episode. The Handbots were interesting, and worked much better as medical systems gone wrong than the siren in Curse of the Black Spot. Well, come to think of it, they hadn't even gone wrong. They were just robots, with the particular kind of stupidity that entails (I can't be bothered to go dig up the relevant Classic Who quote right now).
I would have liked a little more explanation of how Amy figured out how to make a sonic screwdriver and reprogram the Interface. I mean, yeah she had 36 years, but she's shown great aptitude for alien technology before.
What else... oh, Sunken Valley said at some point that this looked to be the timey-wimiest episode yet. It really wasn't. Faster time-stream, pretty simple, two Amys is a paradox, technobabble allows it to happen for a little while but they can't both come in the TARDIS. And all of that was spread out across a whole episode of emotions.

All-in-all, I would probably rate this my second favourite episode of the series so far and unlikely to get moved down. Given the competition, that's really saying something.
Interestingly, my two favourite episodes of this series centre around the two central couples at present - Doctor/TARDIS, Amy/Rory.

That episode, peopleguys and such. Goddess. That episode.

[Androgeus]

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I would have liked a little more explanation of how Amy figured out how to make a sonic screwdriver and reprogram the Interface.

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I wonder this too, thought that the Interface may have given her the info on making a sonic device. or she found one in plot convince land, along with the katana.

[Thufir]

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I wonder this too, thought that the Interface may have given her the info on making a sonic device. or she found one in plot convince land, along with the katana.

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The katana made reasonable sense to me. I mean they have a replica of the Mona Lisa, there's no reason they wouldn't have an old sword on display somewhere. But sonic screwdrivers aren't generally found in museums and in any case Amy specifically said she built it.

[factotum]

Thought the episode was overall good, and it was nice to see Arthur Darvill and Karen Gillan getting to stretch their acting muscles a bit. Just two things I thought were a bit off:

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Why on earth did Amy decide that taking the side off that vent and getting inside would be a good way to escape the robots? Yes, it turned out that it WAS, but it seemed to be that it was just the author saying she should do that.

I also thought that old Amy was pretty spry at kicking robot butt for a woman who must have been in her late 50s or even early 60s...

[Jibar]

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Why on earth did Amy decide that taking the side off that vent and getting inside would be a good way to escape the robots? Yes, it turned out that it WAS, but it seemed to be that it was just the author saying she should do that.

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I thought she was going to climb up the pipe. She grabbed the edges, lifted herself a little, seemed to decide she couldn't make it and dropped again.

[Sunken Valley]

I return!!! Fortunately, I did have access to the episode at the proper time. Hope you've been waiting...for The Girl Who Waited.
So let me take you back to not so long ago, in Apalapuchia....

Cue Star Wars Theme (Just to establish differing Sci-fi interests from Curly)

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Overall Opinion

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This...have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand it showed an emotional core not seen often in Doctor Who. On the other, it dragged quite a bit in a manner akin to Father's Day. I feel that I am much more mature than I was when I watched that ep but the resentment remains.

First off I do disapprove of the Pond's going on holiday. They should be looking for their baby. I know they cannot due to timey stuff but still. They've never seemed that bothered by it. Most people in their position good man goes to war would be threatening the Doctor and commandeering the TARDIS. Maybe punching the Doctor too. These two don't. Just saying, not good.

The premise was very clever, although it lacked a real twist to it.

The garden, upon close inspection, did not look very alien apart from those hedges.

Stuff I liked

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The Doctor showing his true face!!! This is going to be important later on! I like to believe that each Doctor has a personallity designed to overcome a previous personallity flaw the previous one had. Ten was too human. This became a burden on him in later life. So instead he got a personality which, whilst on the service had the charm, wit and some of the compassion Ten possessed, is underneath as cold and ruthless as 1, 6 and 7, whilst still maintaining a good alignment.

I liked the emotional core the episode possessed. It made it special and set it apart from other eps.

Sonic probe!!!

I also like that although the ep was timey wimey it was nice and Self contained and linear. With regards to timey wimey, Moffat is the problem.

Another thing I liked. Did you remember that the Doctor is going to die. They didn't remind us. Good for them.

Stuff I did not like

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If you wanted this to be short and sweet, today might be your lucky day.

First off, I'll start by saying I didn't find the handbots all that threatening. Then again maybe they weren't supposed to be. Certainly, they fell like pebbles to the companions. And companions aren't all that high a level. Was there a reason why they all swarmed on them in the end? I actually don't remember. Serious question.

Quite a big dislike for this one now, the sheer amount of idiocy involving our main plotline. Ms Pond aged 59 is a goddamn fool. She doesn't want to come back because she won't exist. Come on, you lived in what you seem to see as hell for 36 years! That will all go away and you'll have a happy life. What is the hoo ha? And do you really want to travel the galaxy with a toyboy? And then there was that scene at the end. It just dragged and dragged and dragged and dragged and dragged and dragged and dragged and dragged and dragged and dragged and dragged and dragged and dragged. She's not real Rory! She's what might have been. You should know that.

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This episode was actually a Doctor light episode.

Next time!

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Looking forward to this! I think it will be better than night terrors!

PS: Do read post 302. My review of Day of the Moon is on there.

@Curly: Don't worry, girl who waited is on iplayer now. Unless you want Christie. My Challenge Still Stands! You might like the reviews I wrote whilst you were gone too.

[Androgeus]

Season 4 Finale and Girl who Waited spoiler

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The real reason the Daleks wanted Clom was so they could go to Disney land

[Thufir]

I return!!! Fortunately, I did have access to the episode at the proper time. Hope you've been waiting...for The Girl Who Waited.
So let me take you back to not so long ago, in Apalapuchia...

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Quite a big dislike for this one now, the sheer amount of idiocy involving our main plotline. Ms Pond aged 59 is a goddamn fool. She doesn't want to come back because she won't exist. Come on, you lived in what you seem to see as hell for 36 years! That will all go away and you'll have a happy life. What is the hoo ha? And do you really want to travel the galaxy with a toyboy? And then there was that scene at the end. It just dragged and dragged and dragged and dragged and dragged and dragged and dragged and dragged and dragged and dragged and dragged and dragged and dragged. She's not real Rory! She's what might have been. You should know that.

That... is just a staggering lack of compassion and empathy. She is real. She's Amy. She's not what might have been, she's what is/was, and what shortly never will have been. She is no longer the same person she was when she had only been in the facility a week, and hard as those experiences were, they are part of who she is, which will cease to exist shortly.

c.f. (Curly-spoilers)

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Ten's regeneration. Are you in the camp that says Ten was whining unnecessarily? After all, it's not like he was really dying, he was just going to regenerate into a newer, younger version of himself, maybe a bit different in a few personality aspects but still the same person. Clearly he was utterly wrong to mourn the loss of his own personality and perspective.

Now, this? This is not the same as that. It's worse. Because there will not be a continuity of experience. Old Amy will not wake up as Young Amy. Those experiences will be lost, never having happened. She gets a few moments to reminisce before she is knocked out and then she ceases to have ever existed. How many people would voluntarily allow their entire existence to be erased?

Season 4 Finale and Girl who Waited spoiler

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The real reason the Daleks wanted Clom was so they could go to Disney land

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Now that is a hilarious mental image. Thank you.
Daleks in Disney Land... I could probably visualise this better if I'd ever been to Disney Land.

[Starscream]

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The real reason the Daleks wanted Clom was so they could go to Disney land

This is canon now. There can be no argument. I want to picture them on the "It's a Small World Ride".

Wow, intense episode. Without getting into spoilers, I think I can safely say that it was very emotional, very original, and very well acted.

The minimalism helped this episode immensely. Not counting the very minor roles (that's Dolores Umbridge as the voice of the interface, did anyone notice?), this was mostly just a story with three actors. And the Doctor was a secondary character, so it was really about Arthur Darvill and Karen Gillan. They were both able to stretch their acting chops considerably, and they both did an impressive job.

@Curly: Okay, I cracked up. I love your recaps, but I admit, due to the length I tend to read your final thoughts first, and then go back and read the whole thing. When your final thoughts were about your mum, I confess I got a bit confused.

[Asheram]

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Now, this? This is not the same as that. It's worse. Because there will not be a continuity of experience. Old Amy will not wake up as Young Amy. Those experiences will be lost, never having happened. She gets a few moments to reminisce before she is knocked out and then she ceases to have ever existed. How many people would voluntarily allow their entire existence to be erased?

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I agree here, "death of personality" Is dying, there's no way getting around it.
What she is asked to do is essentially to die so that her younger self (which she knows Will live to become her (and survive (And shouldn't even really exist since it's Her timestream))) may avoid living 36 years in this hell of hers.

Have you ever wished that you would've done something differently in your life? Would you Die for that?

That is the choice she is forced to make, and which the doctor makes for her in the end.

[Cen]

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wow. just wow. doctor is an a-hole

[Raddish]

I loved the episode, it was good in all ways in my opinion.

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Although I do wonder why they did not have an actual system for catching amy instead of the easily outrunnable robots. I mean if there was some kind of contagious thing being transmited they would be terrible at stopping it. Maybe the normak residents are just really slow...

Also crazy mind things inside, you have been warned:

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My mind somehow thinks it heard the Doctor say something like "I am the doctor, in the flesh" and I cant stop it wondering if he is not really with them... My mind is so weird that it's focusing on a detail I probably did not even hear.

[Axolotl]

I liked that episode possibly my favorite since the Dream Lord one with the cold-star and killer OAPs. It had worked on the personalities of the characters to drive the plot, it used time travel in a way that was new but stayed with the esablished rules and I really liked the visuals, I just wished we had gotten to see more of the facility.

I'm now wondering where they're going to take River Song (if she returns at all) I mean, we've had her ending, her begining and some of the middle. I don't see where they can go with her story now, unless they bring her back from the moon on the library I suppose.

I loved the episode, it was good in all ways in my opinion.

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Although I do wonder why they did not have an actual system for catching amy instead of the easily outrunnable robots. I mean if there was some kind of contagious thing being transmited they would be terrible at stopping it. Maybe the normak residents are just really slow...

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Well they're medical robots they're relying on the people they inject being A) Very Ill and B) not fighting them. I mean it's a facility for people who are ill it isn't designed with the expectation that many patients will try to beat up the robots that are there to help them.

[Reverent-One]

A solid episode, very interesting. Wow, you folks are a bit harsh though.

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I also found the whole Amy making her own sonic screwdriver probe screwdriver a bit suspect, as I'm not sure how even 36 years would be enough time to understand Time Lord tech without at least some reference materials on Time Lord tech. Still, whatever, not a big deal.

Very interesting having the Doctor/Rory needing to save Amy from herself in a way. Thought they could have cut a bit of Old Amy at the end after she decides to stay, I think seeing Rory and Amy having a bit of the conversation she started at the end of the episode would have been more interesting.

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That is the choice she is forced to make, and which the doctor makes for her in the end.

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Really? The Doctor made the choice? I seem to remember him giving the choice to Rory. And then Old Amy making the choice to stay. All the Doctor did was inform them that a choice had to be made, which isn't something he wanted, it was just the way the universe works.

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The real reason the Daleks wanted Clom was so they could go to Disney land

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Brilliant, sir!

[Helanna]

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Okay, see, Amy? This is why you ask for clarification before just randomly hitting buttons.

Whenever Older Amy complained about waiting for Rory for 36 years, was I the only one waiting for Rory to mention that time he waited for her for 2000 years? Admittedly, he wasn't really in solitary confinement, but on the other hand, he was completely conscious for every second of it and was also dealing with the fact that he was plastic and was the actual cause of Amy's 'death'. I think Rory had the tougher time here.

I'm also a little unsure about the entire facility apparently being run by robots. What if there's an emergency that the robots can't handle? Aren't there any actual people watching for random situations like this? On the other hand, given that the events of the episode only took maybe an hour of 'real' time, maybe they just didn't notice it.

Ah well, I did enjoy the episode quite a bit. I wonder if this will actually change the Doctor's traveling strategy in any way?

Edit: Re: Sonic Probe - maybe there was a library or something there with a lot of reference material?

[Eldan]

You know what I was waiting for in the last four or five minutes?

Rory punching the Doctor. In the face.

Apart from that? Remember when they said the Doctor would fall? I say he finally did.

[Reverent-One]

Apart from that? Remember when they said the Doctor would fall? I say he finally did.

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I'm sorry, but why? For not being able to rewrite the laws of time? If he had just flown off right after closing the door, you might have a point. But he didn't, he let Rory and Amy decide. It sucks, but it's not something he's responsible for. It's like from the NuWho season 1 episode Father's Day, where the Doctor doesn't want Rose to interfere with her father's death. It's not because he's a jerk, but because if she does, bad things will happen.

[Starscream]

I'm now wondering where they're going to take River Song (if she returns at all) I mean, we've had her ending, her begining and some of the middle. I don't see where they can go with her story now, unless they bring her back from the moon on the library I suppose.

I don't think this really needs spoiler tags but

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the series finale will be called "The Wedding of River Song", so I assume she will be involved in some capacity.

[Szilard]

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There you have it people, despite it's vast complexity and power, the TARDIS is unable to accept the existance of more than one Amy Pond.

Even though it had no trouble with more than one Doctor.

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So far, it hasn't been able to support one Doctor.

In Time Crash, the two TARDISes basically collided. It was a doctor for each TARDIS.

Curly Spoilers

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In Journey's End, it was not two Doctors from different parts of their timelines, but rather The Doctor and his copy.

As for other multi-doctor stories in Classic Who, the multiple Doctors were generally brought together by the Time Lords, who could have more easily bent the laws of time.

As for stuff in audiobooks, books, comics, and other media, those are generally more-questionable when it comes to canon.

[Dienekes]

Curly your story was amazing. The best dramatization of the episodic adventure. It had me at the edge of my seat.

Anyway, my views on the episode.

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Better than Night Terrors in that there was no part I questioned. It had to be a katana though. Why is it always a katana? There are other swords, and probably many ones better suited to endurance use through metallic robots. Though if they're plastic base I have no idea how that would affect a sword. Obviously I must go test cutting with my swords! To the yard!

Overall I felt Let's Kill Hitler had more interesting insight on how Amy and Rory got together. The final scene at the end dragged on a bit, but when compared to the death of 10 as done up thread there is no comparison this one is shorter and sweeter. Also I'm in agreement with this Amy. I'd rather go living and scrapping for my survival than ceasing to exist so another me could take the easy road. At least she went out with her pride intact.

Good acting by Amy and Rory though. It didn't feel as much like melodrama as it easily could have.

And a pet peeve of mine now. Stop saving Amy. Old Amy was an awesome badass. That's fine, but this story was about saving normal Amy, again. Stop doing that, it's making her seem incompetent.