[BitP:R] BleachITP Reborn OOC Thread 18: Peek-a-boo style PAWNCH!

[KnightDisciple]

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I understand your concern. Personally, I've been waiting for the Samsara arc to kick up since summer, but here we are.

However, there's something to be said for not purposefully firing up plots that would logically take long stretches of IC time to accomplish when the slow pace of the game is known. This includes stuff like Cuerva's storm battallions, reconstruction projects, and Vicente making P&T foolproof. The assumption that such ambitions will ever be realized is, in my opinion, poisonous to enjoyment of the game, as it moves emphasis from what is happening to what could happen, making everything a waiting game.

(This is the reason why I, for example, wanted not to define Elder's capabilities early on, since I saw it as a very real possibility they would never come into play. As a matter of fact, despite being one of the first characters for the game and having fought the most, she's still to use all of the abilities I initially revealed.)

I understand the desire to fine-tune your character and their possessions, but come on. P&T have yet to be used a single time for their intended purpose in a real battle, but you're hurrying ahead to changing them from experimental technology to mass produced utility? Are you sure there isn't anything more timely for Cuerva and Vicente to do?

Sometimes, it really pays to think only one thing ahead at a time.

By this thinking I shouldn't have accomplished anything with Vicente, despite the fact the Samsara plot doesn't affect Hueco Mundo one iota. See, the problem is, we don't have any one plot that affects everybody, not really. Each major thread is dealing with it's own thing. Which...is kind of what T&P and such is about. It's a smaller plot, a hook for characters in Hueco Mundo.

It's not that Vicente and Cuerva don't have other things to do. But, shockingly, the scene is already over. I've given enough wiggle room that we can put this, and all other T&P stuff, on the back-burner for a while if it will soothe your stressed mind. Forgive me for trying to do something interesting with my character besides bemoan being a man-shaped monster and fighting.

But ultimately, ornery arguments of who "should" win are somewhat pointless. I believe you've both made your points; now at least one of you has to be willing to yield, or you might as well forget about the plot. OOC upmanship translates really poorly into IC conflict when both of you are required to write it down.

If you really can't decide whose vision to follow, throw a freaking die already! We might be freeform, but there's a reason why random chance is so ubiquitous as a tiebreaker in RPGs. You want some fair, impartial party to settle the issue for you; lo and behold, there's one.

What if I don't want to leave it up to random chance, when I think instead there should be a logical analysis of the factors my character is bringing into a fight? Or the factors Sereg brings? Dice aren't actually fair in this case, because there's no "modifiers" (unlike in RPGs, where you have various numbers that give you a better chance of success).

[Draken]

Indulging =/= Understanding. An arrancar aspected to time will not learn necromancia by simply waiting long enough. An arrancar aspected to disease will not learn by withering away to some supernatural ailment. An arrancar aspected to pride will not learn by simply being sufficiently self-absorbed.

See Apolinar for the last one.

Achieving necromancia is, primarily, philosophycal. No amoung of sex will give Mei enough bang for her buck to start casting spells. She will need to separate a few hours of a few days to think why she is aspected to it, what that aspect entails, how much she can stretch it, what she can do with it. How many double entendres Draken has crammed here.
Its not about living, breathing and all but surviving on it. That kind of indulgence is, in fact, detrimental to advancement. Just like the disease aspect wasting away to a pox himself. It is about understanding why that is an aspect of death, what is the horror about it, what is wrong and decadent with it and how it can be used to afflict others through force of spiritual power.

[Nicklance]

However, there's something to be said for not purposefully firing up plots that would logically take long stretches of IC time to accomplish when the slow pace of the game is known. This includes stuff like Cuerva's storm battallions, reconstruction projects, and Vicente making P&T foolproof. The assumption that such ambitions will ever be realized is, in my opinion, poisonous to enjoyment of the game, as it moves emphasis from what is happening to what could happen, making everything a waiting game.

I understand the desire to fine-tune your character and their possessions, but come on. P&T have yet to be used a single time for their intended purpose in a real battle, but you're hurrying ahead to changing them from experimental technology to mass produced utility? Are you sure there isn't anything more timely for Cuerva and Vicente to do?

Just to clarify. Cuerva at "real time" saw a practical use of P&T and approached Vicente about it. And I think I had Cuerva been doing something KD is loathe to do, which is to constantly mention about a long-term plan that Cuerva is trying to carry out, the Storm Legions.

Every now and then Cuerva mentions about the training, so its kinda like running to the kitchen to take a look at the oven every few minutes to ensure that the chicken is not getting burned.

I assure you I do not see the Storm Legions up any time soon, but I keep repeating it so that it would see consistent mention in the game itself.

As for reconstruction of the various Palaces, I may have dropped a few mentions of how shabby the place looks, I think I will repeat it again a few more times to make it sink in.

[riccaru]

I'd like to think that the "younger" characters who are rapidly advancing are sort of "shonen protagonists", or in Vicente's case, a dark mockery of one. They advance fast, because Status Quo must be shaken up for there to be plot. Sereg, unfortunately, represents the Status Quo here. He's an old fart, a relic that "needs to go away", or alternatively improve himself to survive.

Err, Vicente has been an arrancar almost three times as long, and yet Sereg is an Espada while Vicente is a numeros. That would make Sereg the upstart!

Edit: Actually, Sereg is the youngest of the original Espada I think. With ~160 years as an arrancar. (about half his hollow life) Only Lalita is younger than he is, unless Mei is. Mei doesn't have an actual age written.

Edit2: Darn you CALLOS!!!!

[KnightDisciple]

On reconstruction: Keep in mind most of the major stuff was done by Von Geister.

Anything else can be done, by and large, but the group of builders Draken has stated are kept on retainer (maybe they're sorta like Warhammer 40,000 Eldar Bonesingers).

As for the mentions of training: It's kind of a catch-22 at this rate, Frozen. Either Nick keeps mentioning it, and you complain about too many plots. Or he doesn't say anything, then gets accused of an ***pull when it's revealed. This is kind of true for any longer-term project in any of the threads/dimensions.

[Frozen_Feet]

By this thinking I shouldn't have accomplished anything with Vicente, despite the fact the Samsara plot doesn't affect Hueco Mundo one iota ... Forgive me for trying to do something interesting with my character besides bemoan being a man-shaped monster and fighting.

That's not what I was after. What I meant was, I know how you feel, because I've felt the same regarding a different plot. My point is that there's something you can do to alleviate the problem yourself: learn to eke out enjoyment out of spontaneous scenes and doing what you can, as opposed to things you could do if/when.

What if I don't want to leave it up to random chance, when I think instead there should be a logical analysis of the factors my character is bringing into a fight? Or the factors Sereg brings? Dice aren't actually fair in this case, because there's no "modifiers" (unlike in RPGs, where you have various numbers that give you a better chance of success).

This has gotten to the point where I really don't see any kind of consensus forming between those involved. Thus, dice. I stress again: you've made your points. Neither has convinced the other. Time for "logical analysis" is over, because you don't need any more analysis, you need a decision and commitment to it.

Dice is much fairer to everyone, since it will get the job done much faster than waffling back and forth and having lot of unrelated people chime in. (Read: this really is, or should be, between you and riccaru. I, at least, hate being dragged into it as some "neutral party".) It also allows you to clean the slate, as it outsources responsibility away from the players, thus eliminating concerns of bullying, favoritism, cheating and what not.

It's said that between opponents of roughly same level, combat is 80% luck anyway.

[KnightDisciple]

Fine. Then suggest a system that applies to any situation like this, if you really don't want to have other neutral parties consider the actual factors involved. Again, if we're using the comparison to RPGs, we'd not only have several dice rolls (since this is a multi-part plan on our part), but also, in my mind, there ought to be some sort of "modifier" or something to represent everything these characters bring to the table. Instead of flipping a coin to see who wins, which doesn't really feel like an appropriate way to resolve this.

[Draken]

Daybreak Necrosurgeon vs Dusk Berserker/Day Assassin, whatever. Who will win?

As for the workers. If Cuerva doesn't want any parts made of something inorganic such as granite, sekiseki, marble, the flayed skins of hand-picked victims or some other decorative stone/metal/whatever. The architectheurges Von geister sent are more like Acolytes in WCIII or probes in SC/SC2, they show up, give the appropriate patterns to the right spots of the foundation of the city and then go off to do their own thing while the structures grow over the course of... one month more or less. Said structures are relatively small, however, the place is being (re)built effectivelly room by room (concurrently) and story by story (one at a time).

Cuervas palace will take time to get ready because it is primarily very, very tall.

[Frozen_Feet]

Then suggest a system that applies to any situation like this.

"Every time characters fight but their players can't agree on how the battle should end, they throw a die to see who gets to decide." There. Done.

If you want my reasoning, it's below.

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Again, if we're using the comparison to RPGs, we'd not only have several dice rolls (since this is a multi-part plan on our part), but also, in my mind, there ought to be some sort of "modifier" or something to represent everything these characters bring to the table. Instead of flipping a coin to see who wins, which doesn't really feel like an appropriate way to resolve this.

Have you ever played Warhammer? It is acknowledged, in the rules, that there might be conflicts or contradictions in them that can't be solved by logic. In those cases, both parties are advised to just throw a die with even chance for either winning, and then follow it through. This, because it's a fast, easy way to get over a conflict and get back to the game.

"Considering the actual factors" is our "rules" in this case. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, I'm saying you've done it already and no conclusion was reached. The system doesn't work, so it is abandoned.

The other option is, essentially, a vote, and those are very cumbersome. I should know, I've kept track of most of those for this game. I've said it before, I'll say it again: I have little interests for reviewing all potential interactions between characters, when I can write just one. Especially when the characters involved are not even mine.

[strawberryman]

Believe it or not, it doesn't matter who has the last word here. I don't think dice are the answer here, and you would be hard-pressed to make me believe that the factors aren't stacked against Sereg here. But that's irrelevent. This conversation is going nowhere about as quickly as the one between KD and riccaru was. Let it happen, deal with any disagreements then, if absolutely necessary come up with a "tiebreaker" then (even though I don't believe it's a tie).

[Terry576]

Hey guys, Froze tried this on me before.

"Hey Terry, do you want Karite to flee or stay?"

"I dunno man, I'm still debating."

"FLIP A FRIGGIN COIN AND POST ALREADY"

"ALRIGHT FINE GEEZ"

And now Karite and Seiko are rivals. And everything makes sense. Forever.

[strawberryman]

Besides, won't this just give Sereg more incentive to shoot for Tercera? >_>

[Frozen_Feet]

Hey guys, Froze tried this on me before.

Hey, when you gotta choose between a bog and a swamp...

[riccaru]

Besides, won't this just give Sereg more incentive to shoot for Tercera? >_>

It might be a problem when he's being attacked by 4 people and executed if he survives it. Especially since apparently the primera's going to be heckling him.

And why would being tercera change anything?

@Kayne: Which of the sisters has their sword?

[strawberryman]

There's always running.

[tgva8889]

What should we do to "speed along the plot," since apparently it's a problem that the game is moving slowly?

[KerfuffleMach2]

Hey strawberry, where did Ruwa run off to?

Also, would she suspect Ivaz of working with Mei?

[nothingclever]

What should we do to "speed along the plot," since apparently it's a problem that the game is moving slowly?

I don't really think there's much of anything to be done mortal world wise. On the plus side, we've had a lot happen in the last day and we should take into account that things aren't necessarily as slow as they seem because if I remember correctly the build up to the Michiko arc that fizzled took a lot of time and had it not happened at all we might have seen significantly greater progress. I'm not trying to bash Callos. I just think that took quite a while to finally get going. Another thing that slowed things to a crawl was deciding when the game/story would actually start/when day 1 would begin. Now we've got our core cast and it has some direction. We've got a meeting between the kids, mentor introductions, mentor training which could use some episode threads and lead to timeskipping and Kasanip's episode idea which she said she planned to have end with a party at the shrine which could serve as a nice conclusion to all the kids and mentors getting together and something that could lead to more time skipping. During the skipped time smaller groups of characters could have their own adventures/fun/whatever in episode threads.

[Nicklance]

Daybreak Necrosurgeon vs Dusk Berserker/Day Assassin, whatever. Who will win?

As for the workers. If Cuerva doesn't want any parts made of something inorganic such as granite, sekiseki, marble, the flayed skins of hand-picked victims or some other decorative stone/metal/whatever. The architectheurges Von geister sent are more like Acolytes in WCIII or probes in SC/SC2, they show up, give the appropriate patterns to the right spots of the foundation of the city and then go off to do their own thing while the structures grow over the course of... one month more or less. Said structures are relatively small, however, the place is being (re)built effectivelly room by room (concurrently) and story by story (one at a time).

Cuervas palace will take time to get ready because it is primarily very, very tall.

Yes and she is willing to wait for the architectheurges to do their thing.

It might be a problem when he's being attacked by 4 people and executed if he survives it. Especially since apparently the primera's going to be heckling him.

And why would being tercera change anything?

Heckling? Who said Cuerva is going to do anything to Sereg?

What should we do to "speed along the plot," since apparently it's a problem that the game is moving slowly?

I think there was quite a good bit of movement when Aya forced the game to jump a week ahead, and everyone was kinda scrambling to fill that week with activities and stuff.

[tgva8889]

I dunno, we've always had problems with this game moving slowly. I don't think we've fixed them yet.

[Kayne650]

As for getting the Mortal World plot running, I intend to start the Samsara arc very soon. I'm waiting for some more mortal interaction, because I intended to start (in an episode) with the kid's training. Which is where the Samsara come in. And then hilarity with ensue. At least, that's the plan. I'll see what happens when I put it in the hands of the players.

[riccaru]

Heckling? Who said Cuerva is going to do anything to Sereg?

Well doing whatever she's going to do to him to "keep him on his toes".

Kayne, which of the twins has their sword?

[Kayne650]

Well doing whatever she's going to do to him to "keep him on his toes".

Kayne, which of the twins has their sword?

Technically, neither has a sword. I'm still working on a write-up for the two of them, but the way their Ressureccion works is that whichever one of them has the Aggression becomes a sword for the other. However, currently Kaitin (light blue text) has the Aggression, and Sereg can tell because it changes their reiatsu aura, making it harsher.

[riccaru]

Technically, neither has a sword. I'm still working on a write-up for the two of them, but the way their Ressureccion works is that whichever one of them has the Aggression becomes a sword for the other. However, currently Kaitin (light blue text) has the Aggression, and Sereg can tell because it changes their reiatsu aura, making it harsher.

Ohhhh. I thought they just shared a sword.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Hey, I'm not sure so I'm asking, but would whoever is in charge of 10th let Akki in to see Suzume before she's executed, to patch her up so she can meet her sentence with dignity? It's the kinda thing Akki would do and the perfect chance to introduce her!

Also, for Kuroi:

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I wouldn't mind if Soushi panics about what Suzume might or might not have told Akki while being healed. Could lead to some good plot.

[Kuroimaken]

Hmmm.

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Panicking? Soushi? He's made of stouter stuff.

How'd you like Rouga's intervention, by the way?

[tgva8889]

I don't remember exactly what Suzume has done, but somehow I feel like "dignity" is not on top of the list of things she is allowed before her execution. That judgment call is totally up to Aya (Nicklance), as Akki would probably be stopping their group in the prison or on the way to the execution if she wanted to do that.

[riccaru]

I don't remember exactly what Suzume has done, but somehow I feel like "dignity" is not on top of the list of things she is allowed before her execution. That judgment call is totally up to Aya (Nicklance), as Akki would probably be stopping their group in the prison or on the way to the execution if she wanted to do that.

The execution is just being planned now. It could be held off a bit while she has one last talk. I find it odd no one bothered to question her anyway.

[tgva8889]

Oh, well in that case, I guess since I'd play the prison guards it'd technically be up to me. I don't see why not, but they'd (obviously) be highly monitored and such.

Interrogation could have just occurred off-screen. I mean, she's been in prison long enough. Akki wouldn't be doing it probably if she's not in 10th or 2nd. Aya or Taro could probably do it if it is a scene that needs to be done or Nicklance or Goto wants to do it.

[riccaru]

Oh, well in that case, I guess since I'd play the prison guards it'd technically be up to me. I don't see why not, but they'd (obviously) be highly monitored and such.

Interrogation could have just occurred off-screen. I mean, she's been in prison long enough. Akki wouldn't be doing it probably if she's not in 10th or 2nd. Aya or Taro could probably do it if it is a scene that needs to be done or Nicklance or Goto wants to do it.

Oh, in that case just assume she lied about pretty much everything, including their mission. And she told them there's still three more in Soul Society besides Kujo.