"Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

[Daftendirekt]

Actually, we both fail at the spelling (And I'm usually such a good speller ). It would be masturbator. Still, it's not in the dictionary. Also, Winter King has a point that Bay-ah-tor would probably be the correct pronunciation.

[Gotterdammerung]

Actually, we both fail at the spelling (And I'm usually such a good speller ). It would be masturbator. Still, it's not in the dictionary. Also, Winter King has a point that Bay-ah-tor would probably be the correct pronunciation.

Even still, the joke is there and seems intentional.

Mass - ter- Bay- ah- tor

versus

Mass-ter-Bay-tor

Alternate saying them.

Yah somebody in the dev team was having a chuckle.

*also good catch on the "U". I also usually have spelling skills. And technically, I was closer *huzzah!*

[PlzBreakMyCmpAn]

The types of undead which are not templates are separate creatures. Therefore, they have no maximum age, and will continue aging indefinitely.

Hence "The only thing that doesn't stop aging is your ass. It gets pretty wrinkly down there..."

That movie was the best 20bucks I ever

[Steward]

Even still, the joke is there and seems intentional.

Yah somebody in the dev team was having a chuckle.

*also good catch on the "U". I also usually have spelling skills. And technically, I was closer *huzzah!*

I kind of feel silly for thinking that the first syllable in Baator was pronounced "Baaaa" (like a sheep).

My favorite example of a dysfunctional mechanic, though, that nobody else has mentioned, is the Polymorph Any Object spell.

This one is a really good one. What about the whole vermin vs. animal dichotomy?

[Wookie-ranger]

80,000 lb of lead fall on your head from 9 feet above you.
you don't take damage.
rule for Falling Objects: objects only do damage if they have fallen more then 10ft.

[sreservoir]

80,000 lb of lead fall on your head from 9 feet above you.
you don't take damage.
rule for Falling Objects: objects only do damage if they have fallen more then 10ft.

it won't actually hurt that much in reality, either. mind, holding it there would suck.

[Wookie-ranger]

it won't actually hurt that much in reality, either. mind, holding it there would suck.

80,000 lb is the equivalent of 15 Humvees stacked on top of each other... you are right it would not hurt, bc you would be the thickness of a sheet of paper.

[Mystify]

I'm away from my books... and my houserule could be clouding my memory.

BUT

I believe there are several in the arms and equipment guide and a few in Races of Stone and Races of the Wild.


I also know that the idea of "exotic armor" is bubkis...

pure. bubkis.

not only do I make all exotic armors "not" every DM I've ever played with has agreed.

example.
Battle plate = + 9 AC max dex + 1

compared to....

Full Plate = +8 AC, max dex + 1

basic battle plate costs 2,500 gp
basic full plate costs 1500 gp

you can't really tell me that paying 1,000 gp AND a feat is worth an extra point of AC from armor.

well okay you can, but I won't buy it.

similar idea would be the Extreme Shields from RoS

it's a bridge between the heavy and tower shields (+3 ac)

it's 10 gp more than the heavy.... is it really necessary to gouge me a feat for a nice board for my sword and board fighter? (especially if I don't want a towershield?)


but I digress.

/ramble.

Its the same theory that makes dodge. A feat can be worth +1 AC, therefor exotic armor proficiency gives access to armor with 1 more AC.

[Flickerdart]

80,000 lb of lead fall on your head from 9 feet above you.
you don't take damage.
rule for Falling Objects: objects only do damage if they have fallen more then 10ft.

Just call it a ceiling, and suddenly it does 12d6.

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

I don't know if this was already noted, but the bloodstorm blade is IMHO the king of disfunctional melee attacks.

Combine it with Warforged Juggernaut, you can now make ranged bull rushes that deal additional damage equal to your str+ armor spikes.
You can do this with any object, it will eventually deal your spiked armor damage even if you are not near to the target.

Use Improved Grab (bear barbarian LV1) for more fun: you are now Scorpion (from Mortal Kombat) and you are entitled, by raw, to scream "GET OVER HERE" while grappling and pulling in your square a distant foe with a knife.

Battle Jump is also very funny, especially when combined with leap attack.
Imagine that you are performing a normal charge attack.
òleap attack allows you a jump check.
If your result is good enough, you jump will be high enough to trigger the effect of battle jump.
So your jump triggers another charge. While you are charging.
So you can charge while you charge.

[TheOtherSidhe]

Disguise Self, Alter Self, Polymorph, and Shapechange give a +10 bonus on Disguise checks. Disguising yourself as anything takes 1d3 x 10 minutes.

Maybe they're not totally broken?

[Wookie-ranger]

Just call it a ceiling, and suddenly it does 12d6.

ok, well. that would work.

so if i drop a 10x10x10 cube of lead (which just so happens to be more or less 80,000lb) from 9ft it does 12d6 damage.
If i drop if from 11ft it would be considered a falling object and therefore do 1d6 per 200lb = 400d6 damage...
yeah, makes perfect sense.

[2xMachina]

Puts a piece a paper above someone's head, out in the open.

It's a ceiling!

Bam! 12d6 damage

[Wookie-ranger]

Puts a piece a paper above someone's head, out in the open.

It's a ceiling!

Bam! 12d6 damage

Speaking of Paper. the rules (as far as i know) for what happens when a projectile hits a target are a bit odd.

if a projectile hits a target and does damage the attack is concluded and that projectile cannot deal more damage; to other targets behind the one that it hit for example. Logical, so far so good.

so, lets assume: there is an invisible wall of stone and you stand behind it, some one fires an arrow at you it will hit the wall and not you (if it does damage to the wall is another matter). Logical, so far so good.

So, same scenario, but instead of an arrow it is a bolder from a giant or a catapult. the rock hits the wall and not you, therefor does not damage to you. the wall may or may not destroyed in the attack, but that is unimportant. (you may get hit by the falling wall, but not the point)
Logical, so far so good.

lets assume it is a very very thin wall, like a Japanese Wax Paper wall. by RAW the bolder would also hit the wall, destroy the wall, but do know damage to you
OK, odd

well, what if there are 12 thin sheets of paper, stacked with 1" in between one another. you have made a wall that can survive ANY 12 range attacks. including arrows, catapults, and fireballs (bc the sheets behind the first have cover/ but hey might still burn...)

[Chronos]

well, what if there are 12 thin sheets of paper, stacked with 1" in between one another. you have made a wall that can survive ANY 12 range attacks. including arrows, catapults, and fireballs (bc the sheets behind the first have cover/ but hey might still burn...)

Doesn't Fireball say that if an obstacle gets burned, it doesn't count as cover for anything behind it?

[Mystify]

Doesn't Fireball say that if an obstacle gets burned, it doesn't count as cover for anything behind it?

Yeah. I'm pretty sure fireball is capable of multi-penetration.

[Necroticplague]

Oh yeah speaking of walls, it's actually impossible to burn a wooden house down. Fire damage does half damage to objects, being set on fire is 1d6 per round, wood has hardness 5. So even if you roll a six for the fire damage, it is decreased down to three, then eliminated by hardness. Thus, an everburning chunk of wood (sounds like something out of dwarf fortress).

[Mystify]

Oh yeah speaking of walls, it's actually impossible to burn a wooden house down. Fire damage does half damage to objects, being set on fire is 1d6 per round, wood has hardness 5. So even if you roll a six for the fire damage, it is decreased down to three, then eliminated by hardness. Thus, an everburning chunk of wood (sounds like something out of dwarf fortress).

It says fire attacks do 1/2 damage before hardness. Being on fire is not a fire attack, so it doesn't say that it will take half damage. Its just fire damage, so being on fire deals the full 1d6, meaning it takes an average of 6 rounds to burn 1 hp of damage. Wood has 10hp/inch, so an inch of wood burns in 60 rounds, or 6 minutes.

[Mystify]

Oh yeah speaking of walls, it's actually impossible to burn a wooden house down. Fire damage does half damage to objects, being set on fire is 1d6 per round, wood has hardness 5. So even if you roll a six for the fire damage, it is decreased down to three, then eliminated by hardness. Thus, an everburning chunk of wood (sounds like something out of dwarf fortress).

It says fire attacks do 1/2 damage before hardness. Being on fire is not a fire attack, so it doesn't say that it will take half damage. Its just fire damage, so being on fire deals the full 1d6, meaning it takes an average of 6 rounds to burn 1 hp of damage. Wood has 10hp/inch, so an inch of wood burns in 60 rounds, or 6 minutes.

[dgnslyr]

Likewise, an pickaxe should almost never be able to break stone, because stone has too much hardness for a typical human(oid) to ever cause damage. However, I think the corollary to hardness is that the right tool for the job (ie. pickaxe vs stone, axe vs wood) will ignore hardness. I think it's a reasonable assumption to say fire is one of woods vulnerabilities.

The rule for vulnerabilities reads:

Vulnerability to Certain Attacks
Certain attacks are especially successful against some objects. In such cases, attacks deal double their normal damage and may ignore the object’s hardness.

[TuggyNE]

Here's one on delay poison + neutralize poison from another thread:

'The subject becomes temporarily immune to poison. Any poison in its system or any poison to which it is exposed during the spell's duration does not affect the subject until the spell's duration has expired. Delay poison does not cure any damage that poison may have already done."

The poison is still in your system, its just not affecting you.

"You detoxify any sort of venom in the creature or object touched. If the target is a creature, you must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against the DC of each poison affecting the target. Success means that the poison is neutralized"

Neutralize poison does, in fact ,specify that it must be affecting the target.

The result being that the spells work against each other in an unexpected way.

[Qwertystop]

Here's one on delay poison + neutralize poison from another thread:


The result being that the spells work against each other in an unexpected way.

So basically, if a poison is Delayed, it won't be Neutralized?

[TuggyNE]

So basically, if a poison is Delayed, it won't be Neutralized?

Pretty much, yeah.

[Ksheep]

Here's one on delay poison + neutralize poison from another thread:


The result being that the spells work against each other in an unexpected way.

Except that it says that the DC is based on the DC of any poisons affecting them. If none of the poisons are affecting them, wouldn't that indicate an automatic success? After all, it says that success means that the poison is neutralized, it doesn't say that the poison affecting them is neutralized.

Yeah, that's kinda stretching the wording, but still… makes a bit more sense to say that they compliment each other rather than hinder each other.

[Qwertystop]

Mix a Potion of Delay Poison as well as some kind of poison into a meal! Less hint of how the poisoning was done, and if somebody knows, they still can't stop it.

[jindra34]

Mix a Potion of Delay Poison as well as some kind of poison into a meal! Less hint of how the poisoning was done, and if somebody knows, they still can't stop it.

Except that the poison won't start affecting the person till after the Delay Poison potion wears off thus enabling someone to cure it.

[Necroticplague]

Mix a Potion of Delay Poison as well as some kind of poison into a meal! Less hint of how the poisoning was done, and if somebody knows, they still can't stop it.

Although they could Neutralize it once the Delay is over, as the poison would then be affecting them.

[Qwertystop]

Rephrase: It's less clearly poison, as there's not going to be a clear source that they could have been poisoned from. Therefore, it might have more time before someone realizes it's poison as opposed to a sudden illness or magical curse.

[Steward]

I think I get what you mean. You can poison someone, but not have the poison take effect until a long while later when they might not remember it was you (or might blame it in some other, intervening event between the time they ate the poison and the time the delay wears off and it affects them). Even if they know you poisoned them, they might try and fail to neutralize it before it takes effect and end up thinking they're safe until the point where they actually come down with something, right?

I don't think that this is a dysfunctional rule though -- it just seems like a clever gambit.

[TuggyNE]

I don't think that this is a dysfunctional rule though -- it just seems like a clever gambit.

The dysfunction is seen more clearly if, for whatever reason, someone attempts to delay a poison on an ally (hours/level), and then later have it neutralized (10 min/level | instantaneous). As far as I can tell, this basically means it's impossible to avoid the first poison hit once the delay is up.

It's fairly minor, of course; most players won't even have the chance to observe this unfortunate rule interaction. Still, it is there.