"Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection

[toapat]

Unless it specifically says so, and IIRC the rules that this cover:

An Ur-Priest does not have sufficient caster level to cast his 9th level spells without Practiced spellcaster

[Flickerdart]

Unless it specifically says so, and IIRC the rules that this cover:

An Ur-Priest does not have sufficient caster level to cast his 9th level spells without Practiced spellcaster

Doesn't he? I am not familiar with any rule that requires the caster to have a CL of (spell level * 2 - 1) to cast spells. Please cite this rule for us so that we may rejoice in this hilarious dysfunction.

[toapat]

Doesn't he? I am not familiar with any rule that requires the caster to have a CL of (spell level * 2 - 1) to cast spells. Please cite this rule for us so that we may rejoice in this hilarious dysfunction.

Thats my problem, im trying to think what book it is in. I know that a few months ago i saw that specific rule used against the Domain Wizard with Versatile Spellcaster combo.

[Amidus Drexel]

Thats my problem, im trying to think what book it is in. I know that a few months ago i saw that specific rule used against the Domain Wizard with Versatile Spellcaster combo.

I would check the Rules Compendium (it's worth a shot) and the PHB.

[toapat]

I would check the Rules Compendium (it's worth a shot) and the PHB.

actually i found it, and it depends on the Primary instance of the rules you use:

Without the Rules compendium, the minimum Caster level required to prepare and cast a spell as an ur-Priest is equivalent to that of a Cleric for the same level, because they do not declare that they use the Ur-Priest casting progression.

With Rules compendium, the Ur-priest can be completely independant of levels of other spellcasting classes, because it specifies in slightly more complex wording then im using, that the minimum required to prepare a spell slot is the minimum caster level that the class will have at the lowest level they gain a spell slot of that level.

[Sith_Happens]

The Grasping Hook from Dungeonscape is a magical mithral grappling hook that animates on command for a +6 bonus to your Use Rope check. It costs 500 gp.

A mundane mithral grappling hook, from the same book, costs 1000 gp.

[toapat]

The Grasping Hook from Dungeonscape is a magical mithral grappling hook that animates on command for a +6 bonus to your Use Rope check. It costs 500 gp.

A mundane mithral grappling hook, from the same book, costs 1000 gp.

So at level 17, your wizard can make 2000g a day by casting Dysjunction on the grappling hook.

[Eurus]

So at level 17, your wizard can make 2000g a day by casting Dysjunction on the grappling hook.

Bahaha. Best mundane use of phenomenal cosmic power ever. Technically you could disjunct a big pile all at once, but that's still pretty mediocre, heh.

[Eurus]

Doesn't he? I am not familiar with any rule that requires the caster to have a CL of (spell level * 2 - 1) to cast spells. Please cite this rule for us so that we may rejoice in this hilarious dysfunction.

Y'know, now that you mention it I could swear I've seen that rule before... but maybe it was in reference to magic items, I'm not sure. Or possibly mental confusion with the "voluntarily casting at a lower caster level" rule.

[Qwertystop]

LoE is established only through an opening 1 foot or larger. A swallowed bead only affects one person.

If it needs an opening one foot or larger, just cut them off at both ankles. There, two one-foot openings.

[Sgt. Cookie]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before.

If you want to use natural healing, it's better to rest in 3 eight hour periods than for 24 hours.

The former heals you for triple your character level, while the latter only double.

[shadow_archmagi]

Everything involving nonlethal damage.

My specific favourite is the way that nonlethal interacts with lethal damage.

Say we have A. Fighter (Short for Alfred) with 40 HP. He gets mobbed by peasants using unarmed attacks, and he takes 21 nonlethal damage before he manages to get away (he is too polite to kill them) Now he'll collapse unconscious if he gets reduced to 20 or fewer HP.

He then fights a crocodile. Now, if you get by the "Only the last few points of HP actually represent being hit" at some point during this fight the crocodile will try to bite him, and he will dodge, and having dodged, fall asleep.

If you do NOT go by that interpretation, then the croc will bite him on the leg a few times and then he'll fall asleep.

Fun Fact: In Eberron, it was a well known fact that warforged work for whoever possesses them. As such, many warforged will nonlethal themselves up before a fight to ensure they get knocked unconscious rather than destroyed, since only an idiot would pass up the chance for a free soldier. This is less true now that the Great War is over and they have personhood status, but still an amusing meta-example.
---

Related: The "Only the last hit hits" interpretation of HP doesn't make sense when you consider damage from being on fire, immersed in acid, dropped off cliffs, and other things that are very clearly "hitting" the character.

[Rogue Shadows]

It's an abstraction. Having said that, I don't think anyone's ever said "only the last hp actually hits," so much as "only the last hp actually hits in a way that matters."

Fire. The character was on fire and this impaired his ability to keep fighting (lowered his hp), but the fire didn't deal any meaningful damage to him (no 3rd-degree burns or such), because it was just his clothes or something that were on fire before the fire was put out.

Acid. The acid was painful but didn't actually start to melt through the skin.

Falling. The character got back up, hurt, but undeterred.

[noparlpf]

Everything involving nonlethal damage.

My specific favourite is the way that nonlethal interacts with lethal damage.

Say we have A. Fighter (Short for Alfred) with 40 HP. He gets mobbed by peasants using unarmed attacks, and he takes 21 nonlethal damage before he manages to get away (he is too polite to kill them) Now he'll collapse unconscious if he gets reduced to 20 or fewer HP.

He then fights a crocodile. Now, if you get by the "Only the last few points of HP actually represent being hit" at some point during this fight the crocodile will try to bite him, and he will dodge, and having dodged, fall asleep.

If you do NOT go by that interpretation, then the croc will bite him on the leg a few times and then he'll fall asleep.

Unconsciousness and sleep are quite different.

Fun Fact: In Eberron, it was a well known fact that warforged work for whoever possesses them. As such, many warforged will nonlethal themselves up before a fight to ensure they get knocked unconscious rather than destroyed, since only an idiot would pass up the chance for a free soldier. This is less true now that the Great War is over and they have personhood status, but still an amusing meta-example.
---

Related: The "Only the last hit hits" interpretation of HP doesn't make sense when you consider damage from being on fire, immersed in acid, dropped off cliffs, and other things that are very clearly "hitting" the character.

HP is an abstraction. There's no way to fluff it to make it actually work.

[Qwertystop]

HP is an abstraction. There's no way to fluff it to make it actually work.

Actually, I think it's "there's no consistent way to fluff it to make it work".

If you fluff it on a per-attack basis instead of generalizing, it can work. You just can't generalize multiple sources of damage to multiple possible targets with various added affects with one or two rules.

[noparlpf]

Actually, I think it's "there's no consistent way to fluff it to make it work".

If you fluff it on a per-attack basis instead of generalizing, it can work. You just can't generalize multiple sources of damage to multiple possible targets with various added affects with one or two rules.

Yeah, that's what I mean. You can't fluff it to make it work perfectly in every situation with only one explanation for what it means.

[sreservoir]

it's an abstraction. it doesn't mean a one thing which applies in all cases where hit point damage occurs: it abstracts those details out. this produces admittedly silly results in some cases. that's not necessarily a dysfunction in the rules so much as a fluff error.

[hewhosaysfish]

So at level 17, your wizard can make 2000g a day by casting Dysjunction on the grappling hook.

You could do it at level 1 with Nystul's Magic Aura... provided you have a way to escape the wrath of all the angry shopkeepers who will inevitably come after you seeking vengeance when they realise that the grappling hooks you sold them have useful magical properties (you cad!).

[mattie_p]

Let's play Planar Binding for fun and profit!

Of course I want a magic circle spell, let's do against evil for the sake of the example:

This spell has an alternative version that you may choose when casting it. A magic circle against evil can be focused inward rather than outward. When focused inward, the spell binds a nongood called creature (such as those called by the lesser planar binding, planar binding, and greater planar binding spells) for a maximum of 24 hours per caster level, provided that you cast the spell that calls the creature within 1 round of casting the magic circle.

Done, good job all around. Time to call my baddie!

Casting Time: 10 minutes

Umm, err, how do I do this again?

[noparlpf]

Let's play Planar Binding for fun and profit!

Of course I want a magic circle spell, let's do against evil for the sake of the example:

Done, good job all around. Time to call my baddie!

Umm, err, how do I do this again?

"Within one round"...with no order specified. Cast Magic Circle Against Evil the round after binding the whatever.

[mattie_p]

So it breaks free without any checks at all and immediately attacks you? Awesome.

The fact is, planar binding requires a trap:

Casting this spell attempts a dangerous act: to lure a creature from another plane to a specifically prepared trap, which must lie within the spell’s range. The called creature is held in the trap until it agrees to perform one service in return for its freedom.

To create the trap, you must use a magic circle spell, focused inward. The kind of creature to be bound must be known and stated. If you wish to call a specific individual, you must use that individual’s proper name in casting the spell.

Except the trap can't exist by RAW. I guess this solves the wish-loop problem (other than gate, that is)

[noparlpf]

So it breaks free without any checks at all and immediately attacks you? Awesome.

The fact is, planar binding requires a trap:

Except the trap can't exist by RAW. I guess this solves the wish-loop problem (other than gate, that is)

Hmm. Well, maybe it takes teamwork? Have another guy ready to cast Magic Circle when you finish casting Planar Binding.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Hmm. Well, maybe it takes teamwork? Have another guy ready to cast Magic Circle when you finish casting Planar Binding.

Or a simple contingency spell. It's only one level higher and getting a scroll should be no problem.

[nedz]

Quicken Magic Circle (it's only 3rd level — and a standard action) followed by the Planar Binding.

[Erik Vale]

Still a fail, contingency looks to be the way to go, that or using up a candle of invocation.

[absolmorph]

Quicken Magic Circle (it's only 3rd level — and a standard action) followed by the Planar Binding.

Planar Binding seems to be the problem, though I suppose what really makes the difference is whether you consider the end of the casting time to be the only time the spell is considered "cast".
The SRD says a spell that takes 1 minute to cast "comes into effect" 1 minute later, and you spend each of the intervening rounds spending a full-round action on casting the spell.

[mattie_p]

Or a simple contingency spell. It's only one level higher and getting a scroll should be no problem.

Still a fail, contingency looks to be the way to go, that or using up a candle of invocation.

That is quite the stealth nerf/whatever on planar binding, if contingency is the only way to go. I guess conjurers can no longer ban evocation, then?

[Flickerdart]

That is quite the stealth nerf/whatever on planar binding, if contingency is the only way to go. I guess conjurers can no longer ban evocation, then?

Shadow Evocation says hello. Better hope that a fractionally real Contingency is good enough!

[mattie_p]

Shadow Evocation says hello. Better hope that a fractionally real Contingency is good enough!

So now we're waiting until level 15 to planar bind? Sign me up!

[Flickerdart]

So now we're waiting until level 15 to planar bind? Sign me up!

11th, because craft contingent spell is, unfortunately, a thing.