The Grandmaster 3.5 Base Class PEACH

[Merchant]

There is a manga. Called le passant or something close to that. Anyways. In the manga the main character uses the 'king' piece and it changes into a sword. Maybe each piece can be a specific weapon and as you level the weapons gain unique special properties/enhancements. Pawn = dagger, Bishop = mace, Rook = ?, Knight = lance/spear, Queen =?

Or if weapons are not enough or too much. How about a magic item with relevance to the piece.
Pawns are rogues more or less so stealth-themed items.

I was also wondering about the colors when it comes to fighting against another Grandmaster of the opposite color. Was seeing the White Queen as a shatter, cleave, improve cleaving monstrosity much like the WarMind has that two hit swing thingy. While the Black Queen would have DR or hardness .. whichever it should be seeing as how it is a construct.

I'll have to check about the pieces, are they awakened? What happens if they are?

[Demidos]

Oh, no no no. Paladin spell list is mostly worthless for this class. A quick list of spells I think would be appropriate:

4th: rary's telepathic bond
3rd: allegro, haste, mass curse of impending blades
2nd: battlehymn, curse of impending blades, mass snake's swiftness, harmonic chorus, know opponent, speak to allies, tactical precision
1st: know vulnerabilities, targeting ray

I'm sure there are more as well.

Phew, you had me worried for a second there
Oooh, good idea. I already have some of those, but i'll look up/put in the rest

[Demidos]

There is a manga. Called le passant or something close to that. Anyways. In the manga the main character uses the 'king' piece and it changes into a sword. Maybe each piece can be a specific weapon and as you level the weapons gain unique special properties/enhancements. Pawn = dagger, Bishop = mace, Rook = ?, Knight = lance/spear, Queen =?

Or if weapons are not enough or too much. How about a magic item with relevance to the piece.
Pawns are rogues more or less so stealth-themed items.

I was also wondering about the colors when it comes to fighting against another Grandmaster of the opposite color. Was seeing the White Queen as a shatter, cleave, improve cleaving monstrosity much like the WarMind has that two hit swing thingy. While the Black Queen would have DR or hardness .. whichever it should be seeing as how it is a construct.

I'll have to check about the pieces, are they awakened? What happens if they are?

Whoops, missed this (two pages! yay!). Well, hmm, all the pieces already have Hardness/DR

So the manga thing....when he melds with pieces he gets a weapon?

[Merchant]

No no He doesn't merge with the construct piece. he holds the actual game sized piece and it forms into a weapon.

I'm currently looking up chess tactics and phrases to maybe add some more flavor.

There is a move called castling where you can swap a rook and a king. I know you have a swap ability but maybe you can swap adjacent rooks with the king without it counting against the times per/day?

[Demidos]

No no He doesn't merge with the construct piece. he holds the actual game sized piece and it forms into a weapon.

I'm currently looking up chess tactics and phrases to maybe add some more flavor.

There is a move called castling where you can swap a rook and a king. I know you have a swap ability but maybe you can swap adjacent rooks with the king without it counting against the times per/day?

I see. So it gives him something to do low-level other than stand in the back? Sure, but im just going to point out his low HP and bad BAB will probably not let him hit anything without a meld or something.

At the moment, there is no limit to the times/day. Should i implement one, you think? I was thinking of moving pawns up, then swapping them with knights, or getting bishops out of danger by sacrificing the pawns, etc. Like, a tactical ability.

A question in general (to the Playground), atm he doesnt really have any ranged options (other than doing it himself). Suggestions? With the classes option he does, but with the constructs...well...

[Noctis Vigil]

If you make the Pawns the Scout class, he has 8 ranged options.

With the constructs route...I think that's a sacrifice you'll have to take to go down that road. I honestly can't think of an option other than "he has a bow".

I do think that a daily limit on the Swap ability is a good idea, personally. It could get abusable otherwise.

As for pieces as weapons, my suggestions:
Pawn = shortsword
Bishop = quarterstaff
Rook = shield
Knight = spear
Queen = longbow
Give him the option to enhance these. For an idea on this, see the Soulknife class. He gets some small abilities to enhance his mindblade with; I'd make the Grandmaster's enhancements not as powerful overall, maybe up to +2 enhancements (Soulknife gets up to +4).

[nolispe]

The sole problem I see so far, of course, is that White is more defensive than black, where in chess, the opposite prevails. White is the agressive side - it has a tempo.

[Demidos]

If you make the Pawns the Scout class, he has 8 ranged options.

haha, true

With the constructs route...I think that's a sacrifice you'll have to take to go down that road. I honestly can't think of an option other than "he has a bow".

I do think that a daily limit on the Swap ability is a good idea, personally. It could get abusable otherwise.

Well it was meant to give him something to do during combat. Sort of making him the god on the hill moving his pieces below....huh...that made more sense in my head. Do you get what I mean though?
Are people still in favor of a limit?

As for pieces as weapons, my suggestions:
Pawn = shortsword
Bishop = quarterstaff
Rook = shield
Knight = spear
Queen = longbow
Give him the option to enhance these. For an idea on this, see the Soulknife class. He gets some small abilities to enhance his mindblade with; I'd make the Grandmaster's enhancements not as powerful overall, maybe up to +2 enhancements (Soulknife gets up to +4).

+2 allows a +1 something weapon. Not really very exciting. maybe it just becomes a +2 weapon that deals damage as a piece (that is to say, bonus damage = to his level? Still not exciting, but thematic.

The sole problem I see so far, of course, is that White is more defensive than black, where in chess, the opposite prevails. White is the agressive side - it has a tempo.

Youre the second person to comment on this so far. Ok, if one more person posts agreeing with you guys, i'll change it

Any comments on the Empowerments/Changes to the Capstone/the Queen/Checkmate?

Edit: and weapons, which just got added into the Themed Set ability ?

[Merchant]

I was thinking of the term "sacrificing". I was thinking of how one could strategically sacrifice one of your pieces.

I thought of how to sacrifice a pawn for the better of the board. What if the grandmaster or each individual 'piece' has a particular way of sacrificing itself. I thought maybe the pawn itself could have something a kin to the Knights Challenge ability. Causing enemies to attack it while you position your other pieces to attack. Maybe another piece could explode.

The term 'capture' comes up a lot. Could there be an ability similar to 'checkmate' which allows you to capture or subdue opponents.

I was also thinking if the Grandmaster could use a 'captured' opponent as a piece if one of his pieces falls.

(I cant recall is there a way for the pawns to become another piece?)

maybe capture can be done as a saving throw when ever a piece forgoes an attack or an attack of opportunity.

Not sure where to place this as capstone or queen but maybe empower others to be your pieces. The gain certain abilities that are from the respective pieces.

Oooo I thought of a cool for a sacrifice for a pawn. If the grandmaster is dropped below 0 hp as an immediate action one pawn crumbles to dust and the grandmaster takes no damage.

I was wondering wouldn't it be alright if the Grandmaster had more than just one themed deck or even color. Having extra fire damage all the time might not help all the time. I guess we'll just have to see how the blackmaster and whitemaster differ in the end. If they are very different then the sets should remain seperate.

For different abilities maybe the white could move 1 or two more pieces than the black master. But maybe the blackmaster has extra actions that can only be used when on the defense or maybe taking a total defensive stance as an immediate action?

[jiriku]

A question in general (to the Playground), atm he doesnt really have any ranged options (other than doing it himself). Suggestions? With the classes option he does, but with the constructs...well...

Spellcasting minionmancers don't need ranged weapons. They summon and they buff and every now and then they toss out a utility spell, and that's how they get 'er done.

[Merchant]

I think that the pawns should have a number 'sacrifice' abilities depending on the number of pawns you have. I think one cool ability would be to do a swap with a willing ally as well as use an illusion to appear as that person as an immediate action. Example: mr wizard is surrounded by enemies you 'swap' a pawn with the wizard and an illusion covers both making them appear as the other.

Queen ability. A ring of anti magic that surrounds it but does not affect the queen. This makes the Queen quite frightening. Is that too much? Should it be limited with number of rounds and number of times per day?

I think you should have the chess board. Trying to figure out how it works I thinking something that helps deal with enemy mobility or boosts to your pieces. The pieces could move outside the board but they loose whatever benefits they would gain.

Again I'm trying to figure out what happens when to grandmaster boards overlap. I think it would be a constant battle of wills and each time an enemy piece is destroyed then you get a +1 bonus to the battle roll.

[Demidos]

I was thinking of the term "sacrificing". I was thinking of how one could strategically sacrifice one of your pieces.

Okay. That sounds cool. My only worry would be that the table is starting to look a bit full.

I thought of how to sacrifice a pawn for the better of the board. What if the grandmaster or each individual 'piece' has a particular way of sacrificing itself. I thought maybe the pawn itself could have something a kin to the Knights Challenge ability. Causing enemies to attack it while you position your other pieces to attack. Maybe another piece could explode.

The term 'capture' comes up a lot. Could there be an ability similar to 'checkmate' which allows you to capture or subdue opponents.

I was also thinking if the Grandmaster could use a 'captured' opponent as a piece if one of his pieces falls.

Hmm, there could be a clause where the grandmaster can use those statues who have been checkmated. However, im worried about how balanced that would be, especially seeing as its a Fortitude save to negate, which means it would be easiest to target on casters. Perhaps if they lost class levels until they were at 3/4 his HD, he had a cap equal to his intelligence modifier. Then they were only single use? Or maybe just usable on monsters/non-class leveled people, so then he could, say, troubleshoot the enemy casters by unleashing his checkmated beholder? that could work....still sounds abusable though hmmm

(I cant recall is there a way for the pawns to become another piece?)

There is. It is their second empowerment.

maybe capture can be done as a saving throw when ever a piece forgoes an attack or an attack of opportunity.

Thats...alot of saving throws....

Not sure where to place this as capstone or queen but maybe empower others to be your pieces. The gain certain abilities that are from the respective pieces.

Oooo I thought of a cool for a sacrifice for a pawn. If the grandmaster is dropped below 0 hp as an immediate action one pawn crumbles to dust and the grandmaster takes no damage.

I was wondering wouldn't it be alright if the Grandmaster had more than just one themed deck or even color. Having extra fire damage all the time might not help all the time. I guess we'll just have to see how the blackmaster and whitemaster differ in the end. If they are very different then the sets should remain seperate.

When i wrote this i was thinking of the cool sets in hobby shops and the like that are, for example, demons vs. angels, or orcs vs. elves, and i wanted some way of customizing the pieces to reflect that. Its not supposed to actually be that powerful. Actually, atm im worried its too powerful with iteratives.

For different abilities maybe the white could move 1 or two more pieces than the black master. But maybe the blackmaster has extra actions that can only be used when on the defense or maybe taking a total defensive stance as an immediate action?

Spellcasting minionmancers don't need ranged weapons. They summon and they buff and every now and then they toss out a utility spell, and that's how they get 'er done.

They could buff their pawns to CODZILLA status, and a raptoran fighter with a bow can still defeat them? i dont get it

I think that the pawns should have a number 'sacrifice' abilities depending on the number of pawns you have. I think one cool ability would be to do a swap with a willing ally as well as use an illusion to appear as that person as an immediate action. Example: mr wizard is surrounded by enemies you 'swap' a pawn with the wizard and an illusion covers both making them appear as the other.

Hm. Theres a spell in SC that does that. But i cant remember the name i'll add it to the list if anyone can find it

Queen ability. A ring of anti magic that surrounds it but does not affect the queen. This makes the Queen quite frightening. Is that too much? Should it be limited with number of rounds and number of times per day?

Again, she can only be summoned 1/week unless youre willing to take int drain. Still, that could be a good idea, though i think it should affect the queen too, so that you cant have a wizard semi-cohort that is immune to spells. That would...wow, that would be scary

I think you should have the chess board. Trying to figure out how it works I thinking something that helps deal with enemy mobility or boosts to your pieces. The pieces could move outside the board but they loose whatever benefits they would gain.

Again I'm trying to figure out what happens when to grandmaster boards overlap. I think it would be a constant battle of wills and each time an enemy piece is destroyed then you get a +1 bonus to the battle roll.
Eh. Still seems a bit metagame.

Is anyone else starting to worry about the table being too full?

[Merchant]

Sorry if these might be filling the table up and another apology for not checking on it. I just love options and strategy for classes. Especially ones based options and strategy.

Not sure if these can go towards the 'piece'masters
Rook gains two manuevers from the ToB. I don't remember the names but one is Setting Sun and the other is Iron Heart(?) The ones where they redirect an opponents attack (melee i believe) back on to the attacker or an attacker's ally. (rooks were shield users right?)
Knights - extra move action in according to that weird L motion that they make on the board. Or maybe just the ability to make a 90 degree turn as part of their move action

King/board abilities - telepathy(with allies), blindsense(within the board)
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[Demidos]

Sorry if these might be filling the table up and another apology for not checking on it. I just love options and strategy for classes. Especially ones based options and strategy.

Not sure if these can go towards the 'piece'masters
Rook gains two manuevers from the ToB. I don't remember the names but one is Setting Sun and the other is Iron Heart(?) The ones where they redirect an opponents attack (melee i believe) back on to the attacker or an attacker's ally. (rooks were shield users right?)
Knights - extra move action in according to that weird L motion that they make on the board. Or maybe just the ability to make a 90 degree turn as part of their move action

King/board abilities - telepathy(with allies), blindsense(within the board)
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Rooks are shield warriors, yes. I believe its linked on the OP. The two things you mentioned are disciplines, not manuvuers. each includes many maunveurs. Past that...im no TOB expert.
Creatures can already make 90 degress turns

already have telpathy spells, blindsense....maybe

[Silva Stormrage]

The iron heart maneuver he is referring to is manticore parry. Setting sun has a TON of anti charge maneuvers in it.

[Demidos]

The iron heart maneuver he is referring to is manticore parry. Setting sun has a TON of anti charge maneuvers in it.

Which does?

Anti-charging....that could be handy. I dont see the equivalent in chess atm...

[Demidos]

Okay. FINALLY finished. Bump for final thoughts?
ATM the only thing left is finishing out the construct ACF, and maybe adding a couple spells to white/black lists.

[Noctis Vigil]

Some things: nowhere in the class description does it say how many Rooks you get (though anyone who knows chess knows you get two, it should still be stated with the piece type).

Second, the Bishop description still states you get one of each caster type like it did originally, then also states you get one or the other later down.

Oh, you should state that he's considered proficient with any weapon that he creates from a piece; that gives him the ability to wield them properly, but doesn't give him lots of extra proficiencies.

It looks pretty good, aside from that. Good work.

[Demidos]

Some things: nowhere in the class description does it say how many Rooks you get (though anyone who knows chess knows you get two, it should still be stated with the piece type).

Second, the Bishop description still states you get one of each caster type like it did originally, then also states you get one or the other later down.

Oh, you should state that he's considered proficient with any weapon that he creates from a piece; that gives him the ability to wield them properly, but doesn't give him lots of extra proficiencies.

It looks pretty good, aside from that. Good work.

Fixed. Thanks all!

[Keinnicht]

Themed Set (Ex): The Grandmaster carries a set of small carved figurines known as a "Set". These figurines are treated as figurines of wondrous power, with stats as noted below. At first level, the grandmaster picks a side and a theme for his figurines. The "side" is either white or black, white being tied in to protection, and black focusing on destruction, though there is no alignment stigmata for either. The theme may be anything from "fire" to "darkness" to "winter". This theme has no effect other than adding one point of damage (of a related energy type) to each figurine's attack per level the Grandmaster has in this class. (e.g. A 10th level Grandmaster with the "Winter" theme would add 10 cold damage to each attack his figurines deal). Force may not be selected as an energy type. Those Grandmasters on the white side gain a +2 to initiative, while those of the black side gain +2 to AC.

I hate to nitpick, but the word you're looking for is "stigma." "Stigmata" are wounds mimicking those of Jesus when he died on the cross, monks and nuns have them sometimes.

[Demidos]

I hate to nitpick, but the word you're looking for is "stigma." "Stigmata" are wounds mimicking those of Jesus when he died on the cross, monks and nuns have them sometimes.

rightt...... consider it fixed

[Zarthrax]

Using this in a game, had an idea for an ACF....

Elvish Grandmaster

Race: Any Elf
Alignment Any Lawful

Gains: Racial Weapon Familiarity as a bonus feat. Pawns are treated as Elvish Lightblades, Knights as Elvish Thinblades, Bishops as Elvencraft Longbows, and the Queen as an Elven Courtblade. Rooks instead become Bracers of Armor +3 or Dastana (see Oriental Adventures).

Loses: The ability to ever take Focused Master: Rook.

[Jirachi]

Nice Class!
My beef with this class is that the Queen has a positively immense "It was actually a doombot!" potential.
I mean, A villain (who the PCs would assume would have standard WBL, or at least not be suprised by it) could very easily pretend to be a single level lower than they are (the power difference isn't that large, and is likely a matter of not using a single class feature, if that) and whenever they wish to deploy a scheme, they simply use there queen as a Doombot, who can be functionally identical (minus one level but whatever).
In fact, since there is no real cost to losing your queen (well, the figure, but 50 gp is nothing and many villains with the 'chessmaster' theme could spend a long, long time carving out the pieces and at 14th level, 50 GP is not that intimdating).
If you for example had a 18th level chessmaster plaguing your PCs, it would be almost comically silly for the Chessmaster to want to engage in person.
They would have a Queen at 17th, 16th, 15th, and 14th levels (by making them chessmasters, who have there own queens), which could easily be mocked up to appear to be you (if the PCs know who you are) or anyone (for framing, you could even have the 14th level one be an emulation of design choices of any character of that level or lower) who obeys you completely.
Realistically, Adventures have many enemies and a once a week attack would be pitifully easy to sustain. If your pieces are considered extensions of you (which they probably should be, at least in most ways) you would be able to commission your pawns to do the work for you.
You could have virtually no time drain and be able to launch a small army once a week at the PCs.
This is even flavorful, as the 'chessmaster' archetype is associated with deception, red herrings, and isolation from the dirty work.
Yes, 2 Int damage is... annoying, but your class abilties don't rely on it that much.
Note that summoning implies that it exist somewhere in the cosmos.
Empowered figurines should probably be rephrased to all figurines you have summoned.
So figurines have skill ranks of there very own?
Interesting, would play.