Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

[IthilanorStPete]

Then go with 2 Shardnets, Haywire Grenades, and Hekatrix with Power Weapon. And take at least 20 of those units

But kidding aside, Gauntlets are not that good (being only S3, and allowing armor saves), and Razor Flails, well, you can get half of that effect from Combat Drugs anyway. Shardnets allow you to assault almost anything you want to, because it will be forced to fight with -2 attacks, and you are sitting on 10 models with 4+ Invulnerable. You can tarpit every MC in game, and stand a good chance of killing it.
Wyches die from number of attacks, not the quality of them, and Shardnets really help with those.

Ok. Shardnets for everyone!

[Hawkfrost000]

Then go with 2 Shardnets, Haywire Grenades, and Hekatrix with Power Weapon Agoniser. And take at least 20 of those units

Fixed it for you.

But seriously. Agonisers.

DM

[Sila Prirode]

Fixed it for you.

But seriously. Agonisers.

DM

That's what I get for being lazy in checking the Codex, I couldn't remember what are they called, so I just called them Power Weapons, and called it a day. Well, at least you caught it early.

[Provengreil]

Just remember, as you deploy them, that the wyches must not get shot at before at least the first charge, and for the love of (insert favorite diety) keep them away from flamers.

[Hawkfrost000]

Just remember, as you deploy them, that the wyches must not get shot at before at least the first charge, and for the love of (insert favorite diety) keep them away from flamers.

Thats why you put them in Raiders.

Also helps with the assault, and the dark lances are good for spam anti tank.

DM

[Borgh]

About haywire grenades: I never use them. Well, I did once, and then it was ruled that the Destroyed-exploded! counts as shooting.

I lost a lot of good Wyches that day.

As other people seem to love them, where is it ruled that an exploding vehicle is a close combat attack? and/or do do people really think a dead vehicle is worth half a troop unit? It sometimes is but to me not 10% of a unit's price.

[Trixie]

As other people seem to love them, where is it ruled that an exploding vehicle is a close combat attack? and/or do do people really think a dead vehicle is worth half a troop unit? It sometimes is but to me not 10% of a unit's price.

Well, nowhere, IIRC, but since it happens in assault, not shooting phase, I can see argument being made that way...

Though, counterargument to that would be it happens from range, and is stated to be S3 Ap-, something CC attacks don't have, so it might be correctly ruled that way.

As for the tank, depends which one. LR yes, Rhino no? Cost, tactical usefulness, etc.

[Timberwolf]

If you haven't got anything else that can hurt that vehicle and it's pillaging you, yes, I'd pay that. I'd pay the entire unit if it meant I was back in the game. Last game I played, I won because it came down to a Stormraven vs 3 Incubi and a Haemonculus. Once the Klaivex was dead, nothing there could hurt me and I shot the rest to pieces.

[lord_khaine]

So, since im still trying to start my Necron army up, then im going to convert some Wraiths.

Byt firstly, does anyone have any idea about what sort of base they should use?

And also, does anyone have any good suggestions for the actualy conversion?
Personaly i were thinking about using the models from the fantasy spirit host as a base, and then just make them a bit more square.

[Talkkno]

Are drop podding dreads of any sort a good idea in a DOA blood angel list?

[Wraith]

Byt firstly, does anyone have any idea about what sort of base they should use?

And also, does anyone have any good suggestions for the actualy conversion?
Personaly i were thinking about using the models from the fantasy spirit host as a base, and then just make them a bit more square.

Canoptek Wraiths are Jump Infantry, so presumably they would use an ordinary Infantry bases, same as Assault Marines, Warp Spiders, Raptors and the like.

As for actual models, I think what you said would look nice. Maybe something as simple as a head-swap, maybe add a bit of Necron jewelry out of greenstuff/spare bits and you'd be set.

[Trixie]

Are drop podding dreads of any sort a good idea in a DOA blood angel list?

Better than leaving them on table to be shot, unless they happen to be of Rifleman variant (in BA list?), that much is certain. In drop list, you might want to put them either in DP or in Stormraven.

[Squark]

So, since im still trying to start my Necron army up, then im going to convert some Wraiths.

Byt firstly, does anyone have any idea about what sort of base they should use?

And also, does anyone have any good suggestions for the actualy conversion?
Personaly i were thinking about using the models from the fantasy spirit host as a base, and then just make them a bit more square.

Hard to say, really. It's possible they could be normal bases, like Wraith said, or, to preserve continuity with the old wraiths, they could have terminator bases.

Personally, I'm inclined to believe they'll use terminator bases, but that's just me.

As far as models go... The Wraith has a very mechanical look now (P.44 of the codex has a picture). It certainly looks like it's still the same size as the old wraiths. You might consider using a scarab as a head of sorts, but I'm not sure what body would look suitable.

[lord_khaine]

Well, if the earlier wraiths were Terminator sized, then ill make mine the same.

I dod suspect being big would be an advantage for them anyway, since they want into base contact with as many models as possible.

[Timberwolf]

Are drop podding dreads of any sort a good idea in a DOA blood angel list?

Yes, if you take 3 pods or so. This lets you drop 2 on turn 1 which is a pair of locator beacons on the table. This takes a lot of the uncertainty out of the vanguard that should be arriving on Turn 2. Although it's not as bad as people without DoA, the chance of a mishap or being out of Heroic Intervention range is still there and having a bunch of Locator beacons down removes that.

Where the Dreadnoughts fit in...

I've had the best success with this with Librarian dreads, they're expensive, but they come down, walk out and cast Shield of Sanguinius. Hello AV13 Dreadnought with minimum 5+ cover (4+ if you position things right behind cover) that also covers the drop pod. Your opponent now has the choice. Does he shoot the pods, in which case there is now an angry dreadnought in assault range next turn that he hasn't killed, or does he shoot the dreads, in which case you're all set to get in his face next turn with the Vanguard and Assault marines ? Some days it works really well, they shoot the dreads and they just laugh at the hits and make their saves. Other days it doesn't, but at least one pod should survive or one dreadnought to wreak havoc with.

Obviously, this tactic also works with a pod full of Sternguard (although thanks to BA's stupid 10 man pods, you can't get 10 Sternguard and a Librarian in for aforementioned Shield fun)

[Hootman]

Obviously, this tactic also works with a pod full of Sternguard (although thanks to BA's stupid 10 man pods, you can't get 10 Sternguard and a Librarian in for aforementioned Shield fun)

However, if you drop both a Lib-Dread AND the Sternguard together and the scatter die is good to you, the Dread can bubble everything until help arrives on Turn 2. In the meantime, the Sternguard should be able to obliterate at least one heavy unit (vehicle, MC, whatever suits your fancy). I wonder how reliable this strategy would be...and now I really want to find out.

[Eldan]

As a suggestion for a conversion:

How about using Sepulchral Stalkers as a base? Change the head to a necron head, switch out the arms, and the basic look should be fine. They seem to be quite a bit bigger than what you need, but they are plastic, so maybe you would be able to reposition them to stand more upright so they fit a smaller base.

[lord_khaine]

Well, that is an interesting idea, what sort of arms were you thinking about giving them?

[Eldan]

Well, I haven't had a good look at the new necron codex yet, but the old ones had huge blades instead of hands. Maybe just stick a few sword blades on there?

[Trixie]

How about using Sepulchral Stalkers as a base? Change the head to a necron head, switch out the arms, and the basic look should be fine. They seem to be quite a bit bigger than what you need, but they are plastic, so maybe you would be able to reposition them to stand more upright so they fit a smaller base.

If it's suggestion for new Wraiths, then seriously, go take a look first. They don't have Necron heads anymore, these here would be more fitting, IMHO.

Well, I haven't had a good look at the new necron codex yet, but the old ones had huge blades instead of hands. Maybe just stick a few sword blades on there?

They don't have that anymore, too

More like claws, which IMHO could be best done using cut Chaos Terminator Power Fist (the one with taloned fingers) as a base...

[Provengreil]

About haywire grenades: I never use them. Well, I did once, and then it was ruled that the Destroyed-exploded! counts as shooting.

I lost a lot of good Wyches that day.

As other people seem to love them, where is it ruled that an exploding vehicle is a close combat attack? and/or do do people really think a dead vehicle is worth half a troop unit? It sometimes is but to me not 10% of a unit's price.

exploding vehicles and close combat mix like this:

Any rolls on the vehicle damage chart, regardless of type, AP, or final effect, count as a wound scored for the purposes of declaring the winner of the combat. this usually matters against walkers, which fight back and cause wound, or in a multiple assault, where the wound count actually matters.

when a vehicle explodes, however, it's not part of the combat and wounds scored do not count toward combat resolution. however, that means that if it kills 25% of your squad, you will have to take a morale check to avoid falling back(assuming that there wasn't another unit your guys were in assault with). since this leadership is not the result of a lost combat though, your leadership is not reduced.

[Ferreon]

I think Borgh cares because, if memory serves, the Wyches Invulnerable save only applies in close combat and if he got that against the explosion, most of his Wyches might have survived. Not for any other reason such as Leadership tests.

[Provengreil]

oh, forgot about that save. no, it doesn't apply.

[Squark]

If it's suggestion for new Wraiths, then seriously, go take a look first. They don't have Necron heads anymore, these here would be more fitting, IMHO.



They don't have that anymore, too

More like claws, which IMHO could be best done using cut Chaos Terminator Power Fist (the one with taloned fingers) as a base...

Hmm..

Here's a picture of a Canoptek Wraith... Not sure the taloned fingers are long enough. Almost looks like the small claws on a Tomb Stalker, actually. Actually, the entire thing looks like someone took a look at a tomb stalker, and based it on that.

[IthilanorStPete]

Dark Eldar list for review, yay! 1500 points, though it's actually 1503.

HQ
Archon - 135 pts
Agoniser, Shadow field, Phantasm grenade launcher

Haemonculus Ancient - 120 pts
Stinger pistol, Agoniser, Scissorhand

Elites
Incubi (x4) - 168 pts
Klaivex w/ Murderous Assault
+Venom

Grotesques (x4) - 235 pts
Aberration w/ Scissorhand
+Raider w/ Flickerfield

Troops
Wyches (x10) - 230 pts
Shardnet & Impaler x2
Hekatrix w/ Agoniser, Phantasm Grenade Launcher
+Raider w/ Flickerfield

Wyches (x10) - 230 pts
Shardnet & Impaler x2
Hekatrix w/ Agoniser, Phantasm Grenade Launcher
+Raider w/ Flickerfield

Wyches (x5) - 155 pts
Shardnet & Impaler
Hekatrix w/ Agoniser, Phantasm Grenade Launcher
+Venom

Heavy Support
Ravager - 115 pts
Flickerfield

Ravager - 115 pts
Flickerfield

Fairly cookie-cutter. As you might imagine, the Archon would go with the Incubi for taking out heavy infantry; the Haemonculus with the Grotesques for dishing out lots of attacks and soaking up lots of wounds. Hopefully, the dark lances on all the vehicles can take care of my anti-tank needs.

[Cheesegear]

Dark Eldar list for review, yay!

Yay!

Archon - 135 pts
Agoniser, Shadow field, Phantasm grenade launcher

Seems about right. It's just that being BS7 without a Blast Pistol kind of makes me sad. But, by that point you'd be 150 points then the Fantabulous Mr. Sliscus says 'Hello.'

Haemonculus Ancient - 120 pts
Stinger pistol, Agoniser, Scissorhand

Not sure why he needs to be Ancient.
Also you have too much Wargear. Note how you are able to get Stinger Pistols and Agonisers. Choose two. One should be the Agoniser. Note that Agoniser is a Power Weapon, not a CCW, and doesn't stack with Scissorhand.

Incubi (x4) - 168 pts
Klaivex w/ Murderous Assault
+Venom

With the Archon, sounds about right. Although I seriously think you need to put in a BS6/7 Blast Pistol into the mix. Just because.

Grotesques (x4) - 235 pts
Aberration w/ Scissorhand
+Raider w/ Flickerfield

No Mindphase Gauntlet? It's really good.

Wyches (x10) - 230 pts
Shardnet & Impaler x2
Hekatrix w/ Agoniser, Phantasm Grenade Launcher
+Raider w/ Flickerfield

Wyches (x10) - 230 pts
Shardnet & Impaler x2
Hekatrix w/ Agoniser, Phantasm Grenade Launcher
+Raider w/ Flickerfield

Wyches (x5) - 155 pts
Shardnet & Impaler
Hekatrix w/ Agoniser, Phantasm Grenade Launcher
+Venom

Phanny Launchers aren't needed. You already have Assault Grenades and Defensive Grenades aren't exactly a priority on Wyches. I'd also swap that small unit of Warriors (keep the Venom) to a minimum squad of 5 with a Blaster.
I don't like seeing Wyches without Haywire Grenades. A Dreadnought will just ruin your day. In fact, against a Wych Coven, Walkers are your biggest threat so target them first with your Darklights.

You don't really need two Shardnets either. Either they've only got one Power Weapon in the unit or you're screwed anyway. Except not even because you're Invulnerable.
Don't be afraid to drop your Wyches down to x7 if you need to.

All-in-all, you can get back around 70 points without any drop in model count. Near 100 if you swap the Ancient to regular and get your Wargear right. You could drop a few Wyches and have points for two more Haemonculi (because Wyches who start the game with FNP and sometimes Furious Charge are really good), maybe even a third Ravager or a Cronos to chuck out Pain Tokens.

Ravager - 115 pts
Flickerfield

Ravager - 115 pts
Flickerfield

Most lists I see have insta-locked three Ravagers and the rest of the army gets built after that. It's weird to see a Dark Eldar list without all three Heavy slots taken (take anything except Voidravens).

[IthilanorStPete]

-Oh, I didn't noticed Wyches already had plasma grenades. That definitely frees up some points.
-About the Haemonculus - I figure getting +1 WS, +1 wound, +1 attack, +1 Ld was worth 30 points. I realize the Agoniser doesn't stack with the Scissorhand; what I was thinking that against enemies with a good armor save, he can use the Agoniser; against low armor saves, go with the Scissorhand for more attacks. Also, as for how I got them...swapped the CCW for the Agoniser, the splinter pistol for the stinger pistol, and took the scissorhand as an arcane wargear. (Yes, despite the stinger pistol being listed as Arcane Wargear in the armory, it's up with power weapons and agonisers and huskblades.)
-I didn't think mindphase gauntlets were that good? But if you say so, I'll put one on the Grotesques.
-I was thinking about haywire grenades, just wasn't sure about finding the points. That'd also help with getting more Haemonculi because, as you said, pain tokens on Wyches would be very nice.

I'll rework the list, and come back in a bit.

[Provengreil]

Don't be afraid to drop your Wyches down to x7 if you need to.

I've heard 7 models is supposed to be a good squad size in a number of cases, unless squads have a good reason to be maxed out or minimum size, like tactical squads. is there some mathhammer reason for this? It just seems weird to me.

[HalfTangible]

I've heard 7 models is supposed to be a good squad size in a number of cases, unless squads have a good reason to be maxed out or minimum size, like tactical squads. is there some mathhammer reason for this? It just seems weird to me.

My guess is because seven models gives a squad a moderate amount of hitting power, and the points from those three models can help something else, or help get a new squad for scoring purposes. And correct me if i'm wrong but most races only get one special weapon per squad except in special circumstances (such as a 10-man tactical squad), right?

[Provengreil]

My guess is because seven models gives a squad a moderate amount of hitting power, and the points from those three models can help something else, or help get a new squad for scoring purposes.

And correct me if i'm wrong but most races only get one special weapon per squad except in special circumstances (such as a 10-man tactical squad), right?

maybe. I suppose part of why I never got it was that I play marines(must have 10 men to have nice things, or can get them all with any model), and I get a little OCD about point costs being nice numbers.

as for one special weapon, I think the most common things are one or two models only or one per 5.