Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIV: "Pray for 6's!"

[Wraith]

Ah, that's the one, thanks.

So Sanctuary, Shrouding, Warp Rift and either a Shooting power or Quicksilver/Might of Titan, plus Hammerhand and your Force Weapon....

....Yeah, okay, that's probably too many powers for a sensible game, but you can potentially get away with using 6 different abilities in 3 Player turns without missing a beat.

Always take bodies over wargear is the best idea, and that's especially true of Grey Knights, but if you want to experience what it was like to smash every face on the table with a Librarian in 2nd Edition then a GK Librarian can be pretty damn close.

[Arcanoi]

Also, on the grey knights, the preferred enemy VS daemons is really useful. think about it: you find a daemon. your power weapons which you've paid extra points for don't matter, because invulnerable saves. if it has multiple wounds, INSTANT DEAoh wait. yeah, daemon. so basically, if the daemons get a newer, better codex at some point and see real play, that prevent them from becoming anti-knights because the knights pay up for capabilities that are worthless vs daemons.

They don't pay extra points, they just get extraneous rarely-used rules tacked on for flavor points. If Daemons ever become a competitive army and they get rid of Collar Of Khorne cheese, Grey Knights will stomp them.

[lord_khaine]

They also get Deamons as favored enemy to compensate for it, something i personaly find really annoying since my Avatar in the first place didnt get Eternal warrior to avoid all those stupid force weapons

[Provengreil]

They don't pay extra points, they just get extraneous rarely-used rules tacked on for flavor points. If Daemons ever become a competitive army and they get rid of Collar Of Khorne cheese, Grey Knights will stomp them.

no, what I meant was that they ay extra points for force weapons on everyone, which are both power weapons and instant death weapons, two functions that have no meaning whatsoever against daemons. as such, the favored enemy rule makes them still retain usefulness above and beyond your average space marine.

[Nameless Ghost]

Most (all?) Grey Knight close combat weapons have the Daemonbane rule, which potentially lets them remove daemons from play on a failed save. Admittedly, it's not all too likely to work, but it's there anyway.

[Zorg]

My reivew of IA11: Doom of Mymeara is up on my blog.


-


So, who wants to get retro?



Games Day 2012 exclusive miniature, via ZAlpha on Warseer.

[Etcetera]

My reivew of IA11: Doom of Mymeara is up on my blog.

Looks good. Just a nitpick, but:

Jet Packless squads can take a Corsair Venom if they number five or less, or a Falcon if they number six or less… despite a Falcon carrying ten. Dammit Forge World!

Falcons have a transport capacity of 6. It's Wave Serpents than can carry 10. By which I mean 12.

[Zorg]

Corsair Falcons can carry 10, at least that's what it says on their info page... good ol' Forge World

[Cheesegear]

My reivew of IA11: Doom of Mymeara is up on my blog.

Not being particularly interested in the Eldar - because a Codex for them is yet to be written by Phil Kelly - the Space Wolves only get one character out of it, yes? Not even a full list?

IAIX and X still remain my favourites. Renegade - not Chaos - Marines has always been one of my favourite subjects and there's some good stuff rules-wise in them as well.

EDIT: Although I do hate the constant spreads of copy-pasted Marines with slightly different colour schemes. If I want to see that, I can go to any tournament I want. Now I have to look at it in my books too.

Heh. zAerial Assault. Now instead of having it in my head that the Eldar speak Irish (blame Ian Watson), they now speak with German accents and predicate every noun with 'ze'.

"Fire at ze Mon-Keigh!"

[Tome]

Heh. zAerial Assault. Now instead of having it in my head that the Eldar speak Irish (blame Ian Watson), they now speak with German accents and predicate every noun with 'ze'.

"Fire at ze Mon-Keigh!"

Could be different accents for different Craftworlds.

In fact, yes, that is now my personal headcannon. All Craftworlds have their own hilarious accents.

[hamishspence]

So, who wants to get retro?.

I like it! I'm kinda hoping this will be the theme for 6E- 5E and late 4E certainly made a start in that direction- but this particularly stands out, lookswise- even if it's just the paintjob that makes it appear that way.

[Timberwolf]

So, who wants to get retro?

I remember him...

He was on the introductory box when I was maybe 10, the one that came with 20 marines, a load of Orks and a paper cut out Ork Dreadnought, back when Blood Angels were the flavour of the month first time.

AKA this one

Spoiler

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I may have to go to Games day just for him, that takes me back a long, long way. Like about 18 years. It's a really cool model as well.

[Razgriez]

So for 2012, I have decided to start a new army.

And frankly, If I paint one more, Emperor hate me, Space Marine Power armor shoulder pad any time soon, the WH40k portion of my brain, is going to fail a Psychic powers test, with a Perils of the Warp double Sixes. And I don't care if it's in Ultramarines Blue, Has Deathwing Talisman over it, Death Company black, Templar parchments, Ceramite Grey with Silver inscriptions, Wolf Pelts, LoD Bleached bones Or has more Pointy Bitz on it than my fingers care to handle. NOT A SINGLE SPACE MARINE SHOULDER PAD THIS YEAR! None, Nata, ZIP, ZERO! FOR I FEEL THE POWERS OF WARP TAKING OVER ME, AND UNLIKE SINDRI, IT IS NOT A GOOD PAIN!!!!

......

*Takes a deep breath, recites some prayers from his Imperial Guardsman Uplifting Primer, takes a swig of Try Again Bragg's Finest*

*ahem* sorry....

Any ways, To give me a break from Power armor shoulder pads, and Imperial Aquila symbols, I decided to become a part of the Greater Good and start up a Tau army (join us! we have Plasma Tech that doesn't blow up in your face!)
And I'm looking for advice.

The army is going to be part Theme, Part "Take to the local GW/Hobby Shop, and kick some Power armored butts"

For starters: Trying to avoid Kroot for right now. Kroot to me are not worth it. (Even with a Shaper, I wouldn't bother upgrading to a 6+ armor.) For the same points cost of a full Kroot squad, I'd rather just have some more Firewarriors, or another battlesuit.

Suggestions for what to start off with would be nice.

Also, with Hammerhead Gunships, should I just make every single one of them, Railgun armed? or is the Ion Cannon occasionally worth it?

Are Vespid Stingwings useful as fast attack? Or am I just better off with other fast attack choices? How about Drone Sniper teams? What Crisis suit weapons/support systems, should I avoid?

[Nameless Ghost]

For starters: Trying to avoid Kroot for right now. Kroot to me are not worth it. (Even with a Shaper, I wouldn't bother upgrading to a 6+ armor.) For the same points cost of a full Kroot squad, I'd rather just have some more Firewarriors, or another battlesuit.

Suggestions for what to start off with would be nice.

Also, with Hammerhead Gunships, should I just make every single one of them, Railgun armed? or is the Ion Cannon occasionally worth it?

Are Vespid Stingwings useful as fast attack? Or am I just better off with other fast attack choices? How about Drone Sniper teams? What Crisis suit weapons/support systems, should I avoid?

Kroot are good as cheap bodies, relying on cover saves for protection. If you want something to hold backfield objectives and not die, Kroot are a better option than Fire Warriors are.

Speaking of which, don't be fooled by S5 guns, Fire Warriors aren't amazing. They're not terrible, but for their cost, they don't compare to the basic troops of most other races. Keep that in mind.

Broadsides are better than Hammerheads for tank-busting. A unit of 3 Broadsides with 2 Shield drones can be a nightmare to get rid of. Hammerheads, on the other hand, are good due the decent strength template. They're the only way to get something like this into the army. A S6 template will usually kill as many models as the Ion cannon (and potentially more), while having a better option against tanks.

Vespid are never a good option. They'll get to fire once, maybe twice, and then die or run away. Each Vespid costs more than your average Space Marine, and is significantly less useful.

The 'standard' Crisis suit loadout is Plasma/Missile pod/Multi-tracker. Twin-linked Missile pods can be effective too if you see a lot of mech (and the mathhammers puts them at similar damage vs infantry for their points as the Plasma/Missile combination).

You never want to put short-range weapons onto your Crisis suits. If you're shooting weapons at a range you can be assaulted, you're dead. For this reason, Flamers only go onto Crisis suits as a cheap way to fill a third hardpoint (such as on TL-Missile suits). Fusion/Plasma suits are amazing at killing Terminators, but can you afford to be not shooting efficiently for half the game and risking death when you do?

If you do bring Plasma, you probably want Markerlights (ie: Pathfinders). If you don't, then Pathfinders aren't really necessary because you can increase accuracy through twin-linking.

Piranhas are a great way to bring Fusion blasters. Fast vehicles with melta are brilliant. And they, like all your vehicles, need Disruption pods.

Tau have a very steep learning curve. They require you to be on the top of your game even in casual games because misjudging distances and letting yourself get assaulted can be fatal. If you don't know how to block enemy units with your drones and vehicles you'll struggle a lot. And due to the nature of the army, even a single turn of bad dice rolls can end things for you.

But conversely, I find Tau are very fun to play - challenging or not - and I enjoy the aesthetic of the army. Don't be led to believe they can't win, because they certainly can do. It just takes much more practice than most armies.

As always, the battleforce is a good way to start. And unlike most battleforces, you actually get a playable army out of it as you can use the Crisis suit as a HQ or Elite choice.

[Tome]

Any ways, To give me a break from Power armor shoulder pads, and Imperial Aquila symbols, I decided to become a part of the Greater Good and start up a Tau army (join us! we have Plasma Tech that doesn't blow up in your face!)
And I'm looking for advice.

Welcome to the Tau'Va.

Unfortunately, at the current point in time, Tau are possibly the weakest army in the game. The troops are ineffective, half the wargear is defunct and everything is overcosted.

On the plus side, Railguns, Jet Packs, Multi-Trackers and Disruption Pods are all good (Hint: Build your army around these). We're also rumoured to be getting an update soon, but that's been the case for a while.

The army is going to be part Theme, Part "Take to the local GW/Hobby Shop, and kick some Power armored butts"

For starters: Trying to avoid Kroot for right now. Kroot to me are not worth it. (Even with a Shaper, I wouldn't bother upgrading to a 6+ armor.) For the same points cost of a full Kroot squad, I'd rather just have some more Firewarriors, or another battlesuit.

Here's the thing, Fire Warriors are vastly overpriced. Sure, Pulse Rifles are nice, but BS3 means you're shooting about as well as a Tac Marine with a Bolter. And the Fire Warrior itself is essentially a 10 point Guardsman. Which is bad.

Kroot, on the other hand, are dirt cheap and can Infiltrate. And with Cover saves being handed out like candy in 5th, the lack of an armour save isn't so bad. Due to the price difference, they also shoot about as well as a fire Warrior, point for point.

The real use for Kroot though, is for bubble-wrapping your more valuable units, which is vital for Tau. You basically wrap your Broadsides in Kroot in order to buy them an extra couple of turns of shooting before the enemy assaults them off the board. And that extra turn of shooting is worth the 70 points.

So yeah, Kroot are good less bad because Infiltrate, Cover Saves and bubble-wrap. None of the Tau troop choices are really any good, unfortunately, but Kroot are at least cheap enough to act as meat-shields for your more effective units.

Suggestions for what to start off with would be nice.

Broadsides and Crisis Suits are the mainstay of most Tau armies, backed by a Hammerhead or two.

Also, with Hammerhead Gunships, should I just make every single one of them, Railgun armed? or is the Ion Cannon occasionally worth it?

Generally speaking, a Tau Heavy Support slot not spent on Railguns is a wasted slot. So no, the Ion Cannon is basically a gimmick option. Railgun, Burst Cannons, Disruption Pod and Multi-Tracker is the loadout I run, and it works pretty well.

You always need more Railguns. Trust me on this, you will never reach a point with a Tau list were you can say "Okay, I think I have enough Railguns now".

Are Vespid Stingwings useful as fast attack? Or am I just better off with other fast attack choices? How about Drone Sniper teams? What Crisis suit weapons/support systems, should I avoid?

Vespid are really, really bad. They're expensive, fragile and really short ranged without being any good in assault.

Fast Attack is generally used for Pathfinders (let the Fire Warriors ride in their Devilfish) and occasionally Piranhas (Fast Skimmer with a Meltagun, also very good for movement blocking).

Sniper Drone Teams are, like Vespid, something of a trap. They'd be much better if they weren't competing for Heavy Support slots with the Broadsides and Hammerheads. Even then though, their dearth of manoeuvrability is crippling.

The standard loadout for a Crisis Suit is Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle and Multi-Tracker (also known as the Fireknife) for taking out both Marines and light vehicles. Other popular loadouts are Fusion Blaster, Plasma Rifle and Multi-Tracker (Helios) for even more marine killing at the cost of reduced range and thus requiring even more finesse for effective use, and Twin-Linked Missile Pods with a Targeting Array (Deathrain) for long range fire-support.

A standard Tau list (Read: the only remotely competitive thing we can manage) is:

• A cheap Crisis Commander with Shield Drones.
• As many Crisis teams as you can manage. These are your main killing power.
• A minimum sized unit of Fire Warriors to hide away in the Pathfinders' Devilfish (and only because they're mandatory).
• A good number of Kroot to claim objectives and bubble-wrap things.
• At least one Pathfinder squad. Six strong, no upgrades, only a Disruption Pod on the Devilfish.
• (OPTIONAL) A cheap unit of Piranhas, some with Fusion Blasters, to block enemy movement.
• 1 to 2 Hammerheads. They bring a Railgun on a durable and mobile tank chassis as well as the ability to drop a nice pie plate on hordes.
• Broadsides in any HS slot not filled with a Hammerhead. They bring more Railguns per point than Hammerheads, but lack the mobility and pie plate. Generally, you want a mix of the two. Shield Drones add durability (use them to take Instant Death wounds).

EDIT I appear to have been ninja'd. Oh well, I imagine that between the two of us you should be able to get the idea. I basically agree with everything that Nameless Ghost just said.

[Razgriez]

Thanks for the advice. Though you do bring something interesting up Tome.

How will the 5th edition Codex, when it's eventually released, affect the Tau? So that is something I'm going to have to factor in.

For starters, Let's talk about the Hammerhead, and the Various Forge World Turrets. What are the chances, we'll be seeing some of those special turrets added in as options? (I'm not familiar with the rules however, as I lack the Imperial Armor book for it)

How about the XV9 Suits featured in Imperial Armor Apocolypse II (Which count as Fast attack choice per squad)

And also, Potential Aircra... errr I mean... Suspiciously high flying "Skimmer" which has Airborne capabilities during Apocalypse games. I.E. what's the chances of us seeing Barracuda fighters being added as a FA/HS choice? And will it be worth it?

And back to the Current book, something I forgot to ask: Special Characters, If I take any, whose worth it, and who should I avoid. Obviously, all three have some rather major issues :
-O'Shovah "Farsight" for his Crippling side effect of "Turn every Tau Unit, aside from Crisis teams, and Firewarriors, into 0-1 units, No Kroot, (or Ethereals or Vespids, but as you all have been telling me, those may actually be a blessing) all for rather limited Assault buff, free bonding knives, a weapon that makes him a Monstrous creature essentially, oh, and a Body guard that lets him take 5 extra Crisis suits;

-Aun'va for being, well, a fire magnet Ethereal, who only provides some rather meager buffs.;

-and Finally, Shadow Sun, who I personally think, is the best choice of all three, for her "No frills or extreme major army wide draw back" design, but then comes equipped with two short ranged Fusion Blasters. But hey, at least she has a Stealth field, so that counts for something.... right?

-Also since Pathfinders keep getting brought up, Are Rail Rifles worth the points, for some anti-heavy infantry? Or is better just to try and go for as much Markerlight painting as possible.

-Vehicle Upgrades, How do the Disruption pods work for making the Vehicle "Obscured". Obviously, I recall the effect in past editions as making the vehicle essentially "Hull Down" (And thus all hits as only Glancing) but now Obscure provides a straight Cover save. So what does it provide then in 5th edition. And also, How about Seeker Missile upgrades?

-Broadsides, and Any vehicle with Gun drone pods: What's the better Secondary/Drone weapon respectfully: Twin Linked Plasma Rifle/ Twin L. Pulse Carbines or Smart Missile system?

[Cheesegear]

So for 2012, I have decided to start a new army.

I decided to become a part of the Greater Good and start up a Tau army (join us! we have Plasma Tech that doesn't blow up in your face!)

The army is going to be part Theme, Part "Take to the local GW/Hobby Shop, and kick some Power armored butts"

Unfortunately, at the current point in time, Tau are possibly the weakest army in the game. The troops are ineffective, half the wargear is defunct and everything is overcosted.

Starting a new army is always fun. Go team!
Unfortunately, Tome is dead-on in his assessment. Tau are possibly the weakest army in the game, and, the main reason for that is that they actually don't kill Marines well. And that's where I think you're going to find a problem.

If you really, really, really don't want to play a Power Armoured army (and I don't blame you), I strongly urge you to consider playing Dark Eldar or Eldar. However, since you're set on Tau, you probably want a shooting army so regular Eldar are better for that.

One of the guys at the club plays Tau almost exclusively. I'm not sure why. He loves them. He can't afford a second army. He wants to play the worst army in the game for a challenge. I really don't know. But, he is one of the rarer breed of person where losing - continuously - doesn't really bother him. Now, I know most people think they never win, and usually it's really something like one win out of every five games. But going 0-30 (let's say you play two games a week for the active player, you can rack this up in two-to-four months) generally kills people's interest in the hobby and the primary reason Tau players quit the hobby or start a new army almost immediately.

I don't want you to not play Tau. Not even, bro. I just want you to be aware that there's a good chance of losing and "Take to the local GW/Hobby Shop, and kick some Power armored butts" may or may not be a realistic expectation. Check your meta-game, it never hurts. I wouldn't be surprised if your Blackshirt (you mentioned GW so I assume you go there) actually points you away from Tau to Eldar.

Tau rule in the casual metagame, which is generally all-Infantry and maybe one or two tanks in an entire army, and some of them might be Transports. But, if people are even halfway competitive with proper tanks and as many Transports on the board as they can manage, Tau are in trouble.

A standard Tau list (Read: the only remotely competitive thing we can manage) is:

• A cheap Crisis Commander with Shield Drones.
• As many Crisis teams as you can manage. These are your main killing power.
• A minimum sized unit of Fire Warriors to hide away in the Pathfinders' Devilfish (and only because they're mandatory).
• A good number of Kroot to claim objectives and bubble-wrap things.
• At least one Pathfinder squad. Six strong, no upgrades, only a Disruption Pod on the Devilfish.
• (OPTIONAL) A cheap unit of Piranhas, some with Fusion Blasters, to block enemy movement.
• 1 to 2 Hammerheads. They bring a Railgun on a durable and mobile tank chassis as well as the ability to drop a nice pie plate on hordes.
• Broadsides in any HS slot not filled with a Hammerhead. They bring more Railguns per point than Hammerheads, but lack the mobility and pie plate. Generally, you want a mix of the two. Shield Drones add durability (use them to take Instant Death wounds).

Pretty much. If exactly this doesn't appeal to you, don't play Tau.
i.e; Spam Crisis Suits. Ignore Fire Warriors. Grab some extra Kroot whenever you have spare points. However, this is good because Kroot aren't anything like painting Space Marines.

How will the 5th edition Codex, when it's eventually released, affect the Tau?

Nobody knows. Don't base your army on what might happen at least 8 months from now.

[Tome]

GW have stated that they won't be transferring any more FW stuff over to the main Codexes, so it's pretty unlikely that any of the FW stuff you mentioned will be in the 5th edition Tau book. If you want more info on Tau rumours, try checking Warseer (but remember to take everything with a large grain of salt).

Special Characters-wise, yes Aun'Va and Farsight are bad. Shadowsun isn't quite so terrible, but she's still pretty awful. Generally, avoid all of our special characters. The only exception is if you have Forgeworld stuff, as Shas'O R'alai is supposedly pretty decent. Not sure about R'myr.

A lot of the Forgeworld stuff, since we're on the subject, is worth looking at for Tau. In particular, XV9s, Tetras and Piranha TX-42s.

Pathfinder Rail Rifles are a personal choice thing, depending on what else you're bringing and the points total of your list.

As you said, obscured gives a flat cover save in 5th. An always-on (assuming you can stay 12" or more away) 4+ save for all your vehicles is very useful.

With Broadsides, they should generally be out of plasma range, so save the points and stick with the SMS. If they are in plasma range, something has gone wrong.

On vehicles, Gun Drones are pretty bad, but it's usually not worth the points to upgrade on the already expensive Devilfish. The two Burst Cannons (note that they're not Twin-Linked, they're two separate weapons) on the Hammerhead are generally considered the superior choice due to their lower cost.

[Razgriez]

*snip*
If you really, really, really don't want to play a Power Armoured army (and I don't blame you), I strongly urge you to consider playing Dark Eldar or Eldar. However, since you're set on Tau, you probably want a shooting army so regular Eldar are better for that.

Did, but since my brother already plays both versions of Eldar, I've had my taste of haughty Space Elves. Besides, why would I ever want to play as those pansies...OHSWEETHOLYEMPEROR HALF MY MARINES JUST GOT WIPED OFF THE MAP BY A BARRAGE OF POISONED WEAPONS/48+ SHURIKEN WEAPONS!!!! And There went my commander, who just had a Ship dropped on his head by Vect/Run through with a Wailing doom.

*Snip*
I don't want you to not play Tau. Not even, bro. I just want you to be aware that there's a good chance of losing and "Take to the local GW/Hobby Shop, and kick some Power armored butts" may or may not be a realistic expectation. Check your meta-game, it never hurts. I wouldn't be surprised if your Blackshirt (you mentioned GW so I assume you go there) actually points you away from Tau to Eldar.

Tau rule in the casual metagame, which is generally all-Infantry and maybe one or two tanks in an entire army, and some of them might be Transports. But, if people are even halfway competitive with proper tanks and as many Transports on the board as they can manage, Tau are in trouble.

Pretty much. If exactly this doesn't appeal to you, don't play Tau.
i.e; Spam Crisis Suits. Ignore Fire Warriors. Grab some extra Kroot whenever you have spare points. However, this is good because Kroot aren't anything like painting Space Marines.


Nobody knows. Don't base your army on what might happen at least 8 months from now.

Fair enough, I think I can handle that. Thanks for the advice and warnings, Cheese

[DaedalusMkV]

Frankly there's no point speculating on what might or might not come out of any theoretical codex that may or may not even be released before 6th edition comes out, IMO. Judging by the 5th edition books that have been released so far we can expect to see at least 5 or 6 new units in the book and a huge number of Special Characters and options for the old units, but there's no way to know what those might be. That said, I'd expect at least some of the FW stuff to make it into any new book.

As to the rest:
Aun'va is the single worst thing in Warhammer 40k. The absolute last thing you want to do is make your entire army Stubborn, since all it does is increase the odds that combat lasts two turns instead of one and prevents you from shooting the enemy on your turn. The fact that he also comes with a(nother) crippling drawback and costs over 200 points for a unit that's utterly and completely useless in any offensive sense makes him pretty much the ideal way to ruin your army forever and guarantee that you lose every game.
Shadowsun is really quite bad. Her leadership bubble is okay, but she has basically no combat ability and again costs way, way too many points for what she does. She used to be worthwhile in Gunline lists, back when those were actually a viable concept. Now, she's really not worth considering.
O'shovah is amazing (free Bonding Knives alone means that he's actually about the same cost as a decently cheap Shas'el), as long as you don't mind not being able to take Kroot and being badly limited on Broadsides and Hammerheads, the single most important units in the entire book. Oh yeah... Basically, you take O'shovah if you're planning on spamming a lot of Crisis Suits and want to build a Deathstar unit of your very own. He's basically a niche character, and not really worth the tradeoff he comes with. Don't bother.
Yeah, our SCs span the range from "Worst thing in the entire game" to "Would be okay if he didn't have a crippling drawback". Lucky us.

Rail Rifles are not worth it. Frankly, the Markerlight is far more useful overall than the Rail Rifle could ever be and come on Pathfinders standard. Besides, the absolute last thing you want to do is encourage your opponent to shoot your Pathfinders. Disruption Pods give your vehicles a 4+ Cover Save against any shot from 12" or more away. They're pretty much the only thing keeping our vehicles semi-competitive right now, and are mandatory on everything except Piranhas. Seeker missiles are junk on anything except Piranhas (Turbo-boost behind an enemy vehicle then shoot the Missile at it. Most opponents do not expect this sort of thing), and even then should only be starting to show up at 2000 points and above as extra, "I've filled up all my Heavy Support with Railguns" anti-tank. Use your Markerlights to increase BS or ignore Cover Saves instead. I don't really know what you're saying with the last bit, but if I'm right about it, Broadsides shouldn't ever really bother to upgrade to Plasma Rifles, Devilfish shouldn't bother swapping out their Drones and Hammerheads should always use the dual Burst Cannons.

[Tome]

Did, but since my brother already plays both versions of Eldar, I've had my taste of haughty Space Elves. Besides, why would I ever want to play as those pansies...OHSWEETHOLYEMPEROR HALF MY MARINES JUST GOT WIPED OFF THE MAP BY A BARRAGE OF POISONED WEAPONS/48+ SHURIKEN WEAPONS!!!! And There went my commander, who just had a Ship dropped on his head by Vect/Run through with a Wailing doom.

In which case, have you considered Necrons? They've got a lot of fun toys and are fairly shooty like the Tau.

Plus there's the wild guessing that the Tau and Necrons are somehow related.

[Razgriez]

In which case, have you considered Necrons? They've got a lot of fun toys and are fairly shooty like the Tau.

Plus there's the wild guessing that the Tau and Necrons are somehow related.

Eh, not really interested in Necrons. While I like some of their new units, I'm just not really jumping up and down, going "I really want to play Necrons"

I really want to play Tau, come Hardships, and Exterminatus. I just like the Tau design overall, their fluff, The Mini-mecha of the Tau. The fact that it's Not-Imperium of Man. Not-Eldritch evil created from before known time. Not-Spikey bit army, not-oversized, planet consuming bugs. Not Shuriken/Poison spamming Space Elves.

Also, being given an XV-8 Crisis suit model kit for Christmas, doesn't hurt either

[Tome]

Well, just so long as you're sure.

[iyaerP]

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Can't think of tau without thinking of Hot Fuzz.

[Ricky S]

Tau are pretty good as long as you are playing casual games and not tournaments. Even when playing tournaments I have seen tau rank up in the top 5 before.

These are the results of my last 12 games with my tau
4 Wins
2 Draws
6 Losses

They are not doing too badly but I am losing more often than not. Basically with the metagame as it is, your army should be focussed on taking out marines and vehicles whereas mine is focussed on taking out guard equivalent. The main armies I have trouble with are blood angels and space wolves, considering they are the top tier at the moment I should not be too hard on myself.

I would build my army with max crisis suit teams, all with either plasma/missile pod or plasma/fusion blaster, 2 firewarriors units one with a devilfish, a pathfinder unit (who have to take a devilfish which can be used by the firewarriors), 2 units of broadsides and a hammerhead. That tends to be the main set up for most tau armies that I see these days. Crisis Suits, broadsides, pathfinders and hammerheads are what make the tau a viable force so these should be maxed.

Railguns are pretty much the only thing worth taking on hammerheads unless you know you will be facing a light armour vehicle army but even then the railgun is usually better because of the +1 on the damage chart and strength 10. Plus they get the large blast which is great for taking out infantry. Also you shouldnt be tailoring your list so just stick with the godly railgun.

Tau are definately a fun army to play and even more fun to paint. Enjoy your new tau and remember if you lose it doesnt matter, it's all for the greater good!

[Ninjaman]

Just a wondering, who are best of Tyranids and Tau?

[Cheesegear]

Just a wondering, who are best of Tyranids and Tau?

In the casual meta-game, Tyranids and Tau are both ridiculously powerful as the lack of Mechanised Units generally suit both armies well. But, it's funny how they absolutely fall apart competitively.

I'm going to go with Tyranids. Tau just don't have the tools to deal with Tyranids.

Fusion Blaster? Not really. As has been mentioned a couple of times just up-thread, Fusion Blasters are dangerous to use and unlikely to come in multiples which means Tervigons aren't going to die in one round which means the Tervigon is going to spew Termangants out and tie the Crisis Suits up forever.
Flamer? Same. While cover is a problem for all shooty armies (Tau included), getting close is a bad move for Tau, because you wont kill all the Fearless Tyranids about to rip you a new one.
Missile Pods? Not being S8, they lose out on the ability to kill the T4 Multi-wounds that Tyranid armies love. A Warrior Brood in a Mycetic Spore will basically solo an entire Tau army.

Plasma Rifles. Wounds on 4+, no save. Probably the only thing that often comes in Multiples to be able to wreck a TMC in one turn. However, again, if you don't kill a TMC in one round, it - or it's friends - are going to eat you the next turn.
Railguns. I'm yet to see 9 Broadsides in one army, but I'm sure it wouldn't be nice to Tyranids. Ion Cannons would be exceptionally annoying. But no Tau list I've ever seen has even used them over a Hammerhead Railgun.

3 Skyrays (18 Seeker Missiles) would ruin a Tyranid's day. But, again, no list I've ever seen has taken Skyrays over Broads/Hammers and unless you're Tailoring probably wont happen.

The big issues for Tau is not enough spammable S8+ (to ID T4 and to wound T6 on 2+). Pulse Rifles could work against TMCs if fielded in great numbers. But, again we're back to the fact that the Tau list doesn't take Fire Warriors.
The other problem is psyker defense. Tau have none. Zoanthropes are free to Blast things to pieces. And, Hive Guard can spew S8 at Crisis Suits and not even need LoS.

In the grand scheme of things, Tyranid Multi-Wound Creatures are better than Tau's Multi-Wound Creatures.

[Ninjaman]

In the casual meta-game, Tyranids and Tau are both ridiculously powerful as the lack of Mechanised Units generally suit both armies well. But, it's funny how they absolutely fall apart competitively.

I'm going to go with Tyranids. Tau just don't have the tools to deal with Tyranids.

Fusion Blaster? Not really. As has been mentioned a couple of times just up-thread, Fusion Blasters are dangerous to use and unlikely to come in multiples which means Tervigons aren't going to die in one round which means the Tervigon is going to spew Termangants out and tie the Crisis Suits up forever.
Flamer? Same. While cover is a problem for all shooty armies (Tau included), getting close is a bad move for Tau, because you wont kill all the Fearless Tyranids about to rip you a new one.
Missile Pods? Not being S8, they lose out on the ability to kill the T4 Multi-wounds that Tyranid armies love. A Warrior Brood in a Mycetic Spore will basically solo an entire Tau army.

Plasma Rifles. Wounds on 4+, no save. Probably the only thing that often comes in Multiples to be able to wreck a TMC in one turn. However, again, if you don't kill a TMC in one round, it - or it's friends - are going to eat you the next turn.
Railguns. I'm yet to see 9 Broadsides in one army, but I'm sure it wouldn't be nice to Tyranids. Ion Cannons would be exceptionally annoying. But no Tau list I've ever seen has even used them over a Hammerhead Railgun.

3 Skyrays (18 Seeker Missiles) would ruin a Tyranid's day. But, again, no list I've ever seen has taken Skyrays over Broads/Hammers and unless you're Tailoring probably wont happen.

The big issues for Tau is not enough spammable S8+ (to ID T4 and to wound T6 on 2+). Pulse Rifles could work against TMCs if fielded in great numbers. But, again we're back to the fact that the Tau list doesn't take Fire Warriors.
The other problem is psyker defense. Tau have none. Zoanthropes are free to Blast things to pieces. And, Hive Guard can spew S8 at Crisis Suits and not even need LoS.

In the grand scheme of things, Tyranid Multi-Wound Creatures are better than Tau's Multi-Wound Creatures.

But few tyranid lists take warriors because IG and SM will just kill them like it was no big deal. But yes tau lacking S8 is really nice for Tyranids.
You also mentioned Zoans wich IIRC you didn't like to use. What will happen if you place a competetive Tau army against a competetive Tyranid army?

[Cheesegear]

What will happen if you place a competetive Tau army against a competetive Tyranid army?

I'm going to go with Tyranids. Tau just don't have the tools to deal with Tyranids.

Read what I wrote?
Because that's what I thought you were talking about in the first place.

[Ninjaman]

Read what I wrote?
Because that's what I thought you were talking about in the first place.

I was just in doubt since you said some units that wouldn't be in a competetive list.

Also why is Chaos space marines better than Tau and Tyranids.