Relationship Woes and Advice 21: Time To Go Bar-Hopping

[Lonely Tylenol]

Okay, so, the girl whom I was talking to up until the end of November that I asked out and she suddenly had to bail and stopped talking to me?

Well, she got back into contact with me a week ago and said that she wanted to start over. I was cool with this, so we've been talking for the past week and getting along great, and so I asked her out to lunch and a movie (because hey I figured we already knew each other from before and I didn't want to sit around and get friendzoned yadda yadda yadda) and she said sure. I was planning to hammer out the plans sometime this week after I got paid.

Anyways, things going great, she wishes me a happy new year the day before in case she might not be around on new years... and now suddenly her new OkCupid account is gone again, but I didn't even get a "I'm sorry I have to bail again" message this time.


So, I'm really confused, and hoping that it was just some sort of mistake, because there were no prior indicators to tell me that something was wrong and that she'd have to suddenly disappear again. So I'm just hoping that it was some sort of drunken shenanigans.

I don't have any other way to get into contact with her except for an email address that she was supposed to add me to msn with but never did so I don't even know if it's the real thing or not.

I'm so confused

My advice would be: don't hold your breath for her to show up a third time.

For me, this line is most telling of your story:

I don't even know if it's the real thing or not

I know you're talking about an e-mail address and I'm just mincing words, but it really is telling of the situation as a whole: she disappeared (again) with no real, sure-fire way for you to get a hold of her. Whatever her motivations (apprehension over meeting someone from online, of things finally "happening"? Change of plans in her personal life?), she has made herself unavailable to even contact, which makes moving forward from here very difficult unless she makes a move.

If it's meant to happen, it'll happen. Just don't hold your breath or anything.

OK, now to make a total hypocrite of myself:

About seven months ago, my ex dumped me for the second (and thus far, the last) time. We had been together for a long time (not counting the first breakup through our getting back together), and I loved her, a lot. I really did. So much, so, that I was planning out how I was going to propose to her when she dumped me. She didn't know until long after the fact. (It was going to be an 11:11 11/11/11 thing. I'll spare you the details, but that part factors in here.)

Anyway, I was pretty thrown by the whole thing, but I accepted it, and we stayed close friends. I still wanted to be with her and she still wanted to be with me, but unlike myself, that all seemed much too SIMPLE for her or something. So she mostly flip-flopped on whether she wanted to be with me for the next few months after that, going between hour+-long phone calls late at night about her feelings for me and how they're dead, or not dead, or she's trying to kill them, or do I love her anymore, or would I like to go see a movie; the narrative changed often. After enduring this for a few months, having still been wary of the fact that I had already been dumped twice before, I leveled an ultimatum with her: if we get back together, that's the end of it: the final death of our relationship. If she dumps me a third time and then can't handle it maturely, I am cutting off all ties with her. Until she could accept that level of commitment, I encouraged her to see other people.

Things mostly quieted down after that. We weren't going to the same college anymore--I began pursuing a higher-level degree online and she still had prereqs to shore up locally--and we simply didn't see each other anymore. We still talked, and she still told me about her feelings and whatnot, but ultimately, I was moving on. Suddenly, after a time, I got a call from her, telling me she needed to speak to me in person. Thus began an hour-long drive to meet her in town, followed by a tear-filled confession of about how she still loves me, how she still thinks about what we used to have, and about how she has tried to move on--she even went on a date!--but hasn't been able to. That night, her cousin ended a months-long feu/silent treatment he initiated with me (after I defended her over something not at all related to this narrative) to tell me that she still talks about me every day, about how much she still loves me, about how he knew I would always treat her right (expressing respect over the fact that I DID risk confrontation by standing up to him), and how he could tell just from looking at us that what we had was special--a once-in-a-lifetime thing--and it'd be a DAMN shame if I were to just let her go.

All of this coincided neatly with the date I planned to propose to her in the first place, and I was already bent out of shape over it, and I told her on 11/11/11 (the next day) that I wanted to give a relationship another try.

She said no.

She said that she really DID want to try to get over me, and that she was going to keep trying her hardest to.

Utterly deflated, I decided that, at the least, that was closure--which is something I had been LITERALLY BEGGING FOR OVER THE LAST SEVERAL MONTHS BY THEN--and resolved to move on myself.

Cut to three days ago. I get a call from her telling me she needs to talk to me, and she needs to do it in person. Like a sucker, I agreed to drive out an hour into town to see her the next day (she's dressed to the 9s, to meet me as I run errands about the town--guess where this is going), where she tells me that she's still in love with me. I told her I know, you've told me dozens of times since we last broke up, is this going somewhere this time? She seems off-put by the fact that I'm not shocked by this revelation, or impressed that I drove across the island to hear it, and tells me as much, but ultimately spends the next several hours trying to do whatever she can to elongate the meeting (even though I am so tired that I literally nodded off behind the wheel). Being the complacent sucker that I am, I let it happen. When it's finally time to go, I walk her to her car, we hug (for an uncomfortably long period of time, considering), I walk to my car down the lot, get in, begin to drive away. She's staring forlornly at me the whole time, watching me go.

Being the sucker that I am...

I pull up, let her in the car, and she tells me that she literally can't get over me; that she ended it with the person she started dating BECAUSE she felt that she couldn't see someone else while she was still in love with me; that she would rather be alone than with anybody else; that she tried to kiss me when she pulled me in for that goodbye hug, and failed because I turned away and she shied off as a result. She says that she still wants to stay single (!) right now, but she felt that I really needed to know all this, and that she wants to give me another shot when she feels ready, maybe even soon.

But here's the thing: I DIDN'T need to know all this. For the last six months, I have consistently wanted only one thing from her: closure. I'm fine with us being just friends, and I'm fine with us being together on whatever level, as long as she takes decisive action on what she REALLY wants. If she is with me, then she is with me; if she is not, she is not. Whatever the case may be, I just want to put this whole matter to bed. I have gone so far as to get on bent knee, tears in my eyes, BEGGING for her to make up her mind and stop screwing with both of our emotions with her indecisiveness. I will be to her whatever makes her happiest, whatever that may be.

But that CLEARLY ISN'T HAPPENING!

For my part, I've moved on, I really have... Or... Have I... At the very least, I am accepting of whatever the outcome of all this may be... But there is no outcome... HRNGH THIS IS SO FRUSTRATING! WHAT THE HELL DO I DO?!

[Reluctance]

Do you have any mutual friends?

I totally get the whole "I want what I can't have" thing and the nuttiness it entails. But as long as she can have her cake and eat it too, she'll waffle. You either need to put your foot down and cut ties (worst case scenario, I know that this feels like cutting out something vital), or find some way to enforce distance. If you have friends who can act as a buffer, they'll allow some level of contact without the roller coaster you're currently on. They'll also probably be more objective about how ready you guys are to actually get together.

It might even be worth trying to get in touch with some of her friends, if you can trust them to stay level headed and not take sides. The point being, you two need space. This is the least-worst option I've been able to think up when I've been in that spot myself.

[Moonshadow]

Do you have any mutual friends?

I totally get the whole "I want what I can't have" thing and the nuttiness it entails. But as long as she can have her cake and eat it too, she'll waffle. You either need to put your foot down and cut ties (worst case scenario, I know that this feels like cutting out something vital), or find some way to enforce distance. If you have friends who can act as a buffer, they'll allow some level of contact without the roller coaster you're currently on. They'll also probably be more objective about how ready you guys are to actually get together.

It might even be worth trying to get in touch with some of her friends, if you can trust them to stay level headed and not take sides. The point being, you two need space. This is the least-worst option I've been able to think up when I've been in that spot myself.

Cake AND waffles? Sounds like a trip to the dentist just waiting to happen.

My advice would be: don't hold your breath for her to show up a third time.

For me, this line is most telling of your story:



I know you're talking about an e-mail address and I'm just mincing words, but it really is telling of the situation as a whole: she disappeared (again) with no real, sure-fire way for you to get a hold of her. Whatever her motivations (apprehension over meeting someone from online, of things finally "happening"? Change of plans in her personal life?), she has made herself unavailable to even contact, which makes moving forward from here very difficult unless she makes a move.

If it's meant to happen, it'll happen. Just don't hold your breath or anything.

Oh, I'm not. In fact, I'm really more "...okay? Meh." about it, to be honest. I mean, I wasn't ever expecting her to contact me ever again anyways, so really, hearing from her a second time was already a surprise.

I mean, I've sent her an email and hope that it gets there and I get an explanation, but otherwise I'll not worried about it. I'm just hoping that it was just some new years shenanigans.

[Lonely Tylenol]

Do you have any mutual friends?

Just about all of them. Her group of friends is pretty much a subset of mine.

I totally get the whole "I want what I can't have" thing and the nuttiness it entails. But as long as she can have her cake and eat it too, she'll waffle. You either need to put your foot down and cut ties (worst case scenario, I know that this feels like cutting out something vital), or find some way to enforce distance. If you have friends who can act as a buffer, they'll allow some level of contact without the roller coaster you're currently on. They'll also probably be more objective about how ready you guys are to actually get together.

It might even be worth trying to get in touch with some of her friends, if you can trust them to stay level headed and not take sides. The point being, you two need space. This is the least-worst option I've been able to think up when I've been in that spot myself.

Space has already sorta been created by the demands of my education program. I haven't really spoken to any of them in months (barring the odd interjection or event), since I live so far away from everyone and the circumstances of my work/schooling don't take me into town anymore.

I'd rather not cut ties with her; it would devastate her, especially since she hasn't been the most stable in all this, emotionally speaking, and it would likely have much deeper implications for her social life (like if these friends do take sides, it may well be with me).

I do feel I need to put my foot down, though. It's time I stop rolling over and being so damn accepting of this whole situation.

[Castaras]

Just be awesome, remember that you're awesome, and keep meeting people till you find someone who realises how awesome you are.

This. Just this. This here advice, should be followed by everyone.

[Rawhide]

This. Just this. This here advice, should be followed by everyone.

Spoiler

Show

[DeadManSleeping]

@L_T: Quote unquote "love" isn't what you need in a relationship. Love is. The difference is what keeps you from breaking up in the first place. However much you might get butterflies, or however much you can't imagine anything wrong about them when you're apart, if you've shown that you can't be together, then stop trying. I know it doesn't feel like that's the right thing to do right now. All those messed-up chemicals in your brain are telling you to stay attached to this person. But you shouldn't. We've evolved to continue procreation, not to lead happy lives. You gotta fight evolution sometimes. We now live in a world where, no matter how many people you know that you want to get out of your life, you have over a million potential replacements waiting to be found.

The best healer is not closure. It is time. You may have all these fuzzy feelings telling you to let her close...but don't listen to them. Any healer knows that there are bad parts you just gotta cut out.

@term1nal: it sounds like you're saying men are more "reasonable" than women. Meanwhile, I'm immersed in a life where the half men are little balls of drama and half the women are calculating about far too much of their life. I'm not sure why your observations don't match up with mine, but I can assure you that our ways of dealing with emotions are much more cultural than biological. You should account for what environment your subjects are raised in before you apply a standard to the entire species.

[Coidzor]

...What is the accepted etiquette for getting people to stop having sex on your living room floor so that you can go to sleep? Because I wasn't sure if I should unleash the dog and let it interrupt them or if I should dump water on top of them that I would then have to clean up.

[NineThePuma]

...What is the accepted etiquette for getting people to stop having sex on your living room floor so that you can go to sleep? Because I wasn't sure if I should unleash the dog and let it interrupt them or if I should dump water on top of them that I would then have to clean up.

It's the dog.

[Coidzor]

It's the dog.

Mmm, only problem was that the dog only temporarily distracted them and he eventually wandered over to say hello to everyone else and they just started up again.

Oh well.

On a related note, does anyone recall what you're supposed to do with keys to prevent people from taking them in an inebriated state?

[NineThePuma]

I conceal keys in one of the storage closets.

[Metalmind]

Hello, long time reader, first time poster.

I am nineteen years old, just finished my first term of University. I am not sure about this whole relationship business. What purpose does it fulfill in one's life? What does one gain from it that they do not have from it? Do people get into relationships because they have certain biological urges that they feel the need to fulfill, or is it because they want to become closer to another person?

Thank you for your time.

[Objection]

Hello, long time reader, first time poster.

I am nineteen years old, just finished my first term of University. I am not sure about this whole relationship business. What purpose does it fulfill in one's life? What does one gain from it that they do not have from it? Do people get into relationships because they have certain biological urges that they feel the need to fulfill, or is it because they want to become closer to another person?

Thank you for your time.

Well, some of the things you gain from a friendship are:

• Someone you can trust
• Someone who can cover your weaknesses while you can cover theirs
• Someone to help you feel more confident in yourself

Perhaps those apply to relationships as well? There's also the kids factor with relationships - after all, if you're going to have children, you want it to be with someone who will be a good parent alongside you, right?

[Wyntonian]

This isn't so much an immediate issue as it is a little piece of advice.

When suggesting, implying willingness, etc., for any act of sexytimes, please, please don't say "I'd be ok with it if you are, I guess." Seriously? It's not like choosing a restaurant. (Possibility that that's just my experience duly noted.) It's a serious, potentially life-changing decision, and is even more important when its one of the people in question's first times (it wasn't mine in this case, but still.) If all you have to say is "I'd be ok with it", I'm not really interested in taking part, especially if you're a long-term partner. I'm willing to wait until you're more than just lukewarm ambivalent.

/Rant.

I'm done, sorry, needed to get that out.

[DeadManSleeping]

Haha. Metalmind thinks we have an answer. How cute.

Look, you can approach it from biology, psychology, philosophy, sociology, or whatever, but you're never going to get a perfectly satisfactory answer on why relationships happen. Honestly, different people pursue different relationships for different reasons. If you want to be happy in life, I recommend pursuing any kind of relationship that makes you happy, and none of the other kinds.

Oh, and no matter what you do, it's going to cause all kinds of annoying drama because no two people can agree on what relationships should exist and in what manner.

So, I suppose I do have an answer to your question: people get in relationships because there is an intelligent force behind the universe and it takes pleasure in our misery.

[Coidzor]

What purpose does it fulfill in one's life? What does one gain from it that they do not have from it?

Myriad things, generally subtly different from one relationship or person in a relationship to the next, though there's a few broad categories that are roughly similar enough to classify together.

Things like companionship, emotional intimacy, a secure supply of sex, a framework from which to have offspring and create a family, economic security, social advancement, an extra pair of hands around the farm.

But then, you knew that already. So I'm not quite sure what you're asking or why you're asking it.

If you want to be told to want one, that isn't our place or job. You either do or you don't and do whatever thou wilt so long as it harm none, or however the saying goes.

Do people get into relationships because they have certain biological urges that they feel the need to fulfill, or is it because they want to become closer to another person?

Yes. Both. Neither. There's not even necessarily a difference between the two things on either side of the "or," there. Nor are those the only options, even as vague as they are.

Alternatively, this is one of the better ways of encapsulating life in general in addition to this facet of it.

So, I suppose I do have an answer to your question: people get in relationships because there is an intelligent force behind the universe and it takes pleasure in our misery.

When suggesting, implying willingness, etc., for any act of sexytimes, please, please don't say "I'd be ok with it if you are, I guess." Seriously? It's not like choosing a restaurant. (Possibility that that's just my experience duly noted.) It's a serious, potentially life-changing decision, and is even more important when its one of the people in question's first times (it wasn't mine in this case, but still.) If all you have to say is "I'd be ok with it", I'm not really interested in taking part, especially if you're a long-term partner. I'm willing to wait until you're more than just lukewarm ambivalent.

Kind of an odd thing to say. You did probe further to figure out where that came from though, right? Because that kind of statement doesn't seem the type to come from a sourceless apathy.

[Morph Bark]

I knew all this, but "RWA 21: Screw the Dutch" seemed a bit inflammatory. I think the US is the only place with a drinking age of 21 anyway.

Oh you might inflame people alright. *WINK*

Does remind me though that I never learned what the age of consent here is. Not like it really matters now.

Also: Drinking age list. Curiously enough, the 21 limit is mostly seen in Islamic countries.

Just be awesome, remember that you're awesome, and keep meeting people till you find someone who realises how awesome you are.

You know what? I am going to link one of the most awesome and inspiring (to me) speeches in a movie I've seen so far and you are all going to watch it, because if you got a problem, you just need to turn on your awesome.

DO IT.

[rogueboy]

Also: Drinking age list. Curiously enough, the 21 limit is mostly seen in Islamic countries.

I haven't actually looked through the list to see what we're defining as Islamic countries here, but this surprises me, since Islam forbids the consumption of alcohol entirely. My surprise may be that I'm thinking of the more conservative countries (Iran, for example) when I hear "Islamic countries" rather than the more liberal, but still generally Islamic (in the same way that the US is generally Christian), such as Jordan.

You know what? I am going to link one of the most awesome and inspiring (to me) speeches in a movie I've seen so far and you are all going to watch it, because if you got a problem, you just need to turn on your awesome.

DO IT.

That was outstanding. Thank you for that.

[Pika...]

OK, so I just, just scheduled my first date with a girl...ever...and it is for Valentine's Day...

...OK, now that that is out of my system on to the thread.


I figure flowers and chocolates are not cliche/out of date nowadays? If not, what do you all suggest I get for her?

Roses? Something else?

And what kind/how expensive should the chocolates be?

I am also thinking of getting a few random chocolates/candies for her five little siblings (most toddlers and such), and perhaps some chocolates/a token for the mother (no father in the picture). Good idea? Bad idea?



Many Pikas in advance!

[Lady Moreta]

Roses are always nice - since it's a first date, you could get yellow ones, which signify friendship, rather than red for love.

If you'd rather not do roses, or would prefer to avoid the horrendous price mark-ups florists do on Valentine's Day, then something bright and cheerful like Gerberas are always good. Or you could pick a colour (say one you know she likes) and ask a florist to do you up a bouquet with flowers of that specific colour. You can give them a price and they'll make up a bouquet according to what you can spend.

Chocolates are a little more tricky. I would recommend trying to find out what type of chocolates she likes, because tastes can be very specific. Considering that she may not even like chocolates. If you can't, then I would get a box of something that has a mixture of chocolates, ones with fillings and ones without, light and dark chocolate. That way you're more likely to find something that she likes and she can share them if she doesn't like them after all. If you're not sure of exactly what she likes, then make it a smallish box, so you don't spend too much and she won't feel too bad if you accidentally get something she's not too fussed on.

As for the rest of the family, I don't see any reason for you to need to get anything for them. You're dating her, not the entire family. On the first date, it would feel like too much, like you're trying too hard. If there is ever an occassion when you're invited over to meet the family, or for dinner or a family outing or something, that's when you break out the gifts for the family. Not on your first date.

[Tebryn]

You don't do either. It seems like you're trying to hard. Keep it low key.

[Lady Moreta]

Oh, I don't know. I think it's kinda sweet I certainly wouldn't be complaining if a guy gave me flowers and chocolates on a first date. Especially as that first date is Valentine's Day.

If you're worried about appearing too keen Pika, nix the chocolates and just get her a nice bunch of flowers. That way you also have time to find out her chocolate preferences and make sure you get the right ones.

[Pika...]

As usual, you're awesome Lady Moreta. Many Pikas!

You don't do either. It seems like you're trying to hard. Keep it low key.

Well, it's my first date, and it would be Valentine's Day. I feel like I shoud get her something.

[Savannah]

Personally, I'd be a wee bit creeped out by someone giving me flowers and chocolates on a first date.

In addition to Lady Moreta's advice to make sure she likes chocolates if you get them, I'd also make sure she is okay with flowers, as I know people who are horribly allergic to flowers. Not the impression you want to make.

[Circle of Life]

I second the yellow roses, provided they aren't out of your budget. A small (~15 piece, depending on the brand) assortment box of chocolates would be a good tag along for Valentine's Day. You needn't be excessive with the flowers either, even a single yellow rose will do just fine. It is a first date, after all.

[Pika...]

Well, budget will be OK. She wants to go to the movies, which is not too expensive, and for a restaurant before-hand I offered to take her to whatever her favorite was and she chose Wendy's, so a lucky break there.

[Moonshadow]

I wouldn't do flowers or chocolates. For one, you're just giving into the Valentine's Day hype. Instead, I suggest that you tell her that you'd like to pay for the first date, and if she objects, tell her she can pay for the 2nd one.

But yeah, honestly, flowers and chocolates seems a bit try hard to me.

[Flickerdart]

Cactus. Can you get your hands on a blooming cactus?

[Pika...]

I wouldn't do flowers or chocolates. For one, you're just giving into the Valentine's Day hype. Instead, I suggest that you tell her that you'd like to pay for the first date, and if she objects, tell her she can pay for the 2nd one.

But yeah, honestly, flowers and chocolates seems a bit try hard to me.

I thought the guy paying was a given?

Cactus. Can you get your hands on a blooming cactus?

Um, that's an interesting concept I guess...

[Worira]

I think a better question might be why you're scheduling your first date both more than a month in advance, and for Valentine's Day to boot.