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Thread: Musings on Language #2
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2012-02-21, 07:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-02-21, 07:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Musings on Language #2
Nope - when you're full, you don't want to eat any more, but personally even when I'm drunk that rarely stops me from wanting to drink more
Reminds me of this extract from HHGTTG
Arthur Dent: What are you doing?
Ford Prefect: Preparing for hyperspace. It's rather unpleasantly like being drunk.
Arthur Dent: What's so wrong about being drunk?
Ford Prefect: Ask a glass of water.
EDIT:
Oops, yeah, my bad!
Also, 'allay' one's hunger.Last edited by Goosefeather; 2012-02-21 at 07:32 PM.
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2012-02-22, 05:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Musings on Language #2
I've heard some language comitee has made up the word "sitt" (no longer thirsty) to go with "satt" (no longer hungry). But just like "Elter", meaning "one parent", no one uses it, exept in mockery. Explanation: so far, German only had the word Eltern, meaning parents, and if you wanted to talk about a single parent, you'd have to use father or mother.
Si non confectus, non reficiat.
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My S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Call of Pripjat Let's Play! Please give it a read, more than one constant reader would be nice!
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2012-02-22, 07:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Musings on Language #2
"Elternteil" is commonly used for one parent, at least in Switzerland. Which translates to, more or less "Part of the Parents".
Resident Vancian Apologist
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2012-02-22, 08:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Musings on Language #2
Yep, we use that too, but now, we could also use "Elter" should we really really want to.
Si non confectus, non reficiat.
The beautiful girl is courtesy of Serpentine
My S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Call of Pripjat Let's Play! Please give it a read, more than one constant reader would be nice!
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2012-02-22, 05:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Musings on Language #2
Actually, I never understood how this works. (Non-native speaker here, so don't shoot.) By the same token, shouldn't you say "I am better at math than he"? And doesn't that sound awful? Doesn't "I am better at math than him" sound better?
I believe that it's quite acceptable to use the accusative/dative case ("him" instead of "he", "me" instead of "I" and so on) after a preposition. In this case, the pronoun ("him") is the object of the preposition ("than"). For comparison, it is definitely correct to say "for him" and "after them" and "before her", right? Is there any reason why the preposition "than" shouldn't be used in the same way?
Now, saying "I am better than math than he" is no less grammatically correct - though I still believe it sounds awful. It just assumes a different syntax. In this case, the object of the preposition "than" is an entire relative clause ("he is (good at math)"), most of which is omitted. So the pronoun is rightly in the nominative case, because it's now the subject of the omitted verb ("is").
Or at least, that's how I understand it. Am I wrong? And if so, why? I'd love to learn.
EDIT - Here's wikipedia's take. I still don't understand why "than him" is wrong. Or if it IS wrong, for that matter.Last edited by HeadlessMermaid; 2012-02-22 at 05:37 PM.
"We need the excuse of fiction to stage what we truly are." ~ Slavoj Žižek, The Pervert’s Guide to Cinema
"El bien más preciado es la libertad" ~ Valeriano Orobón Fernández, A las barricadas
"If civilization has an opposite, it is war." ~ Ursula K. Le Guin, The Left Hand of Darkness
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Avatar by Michael Dialynas
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2012-02-25, 07:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Musings on Language #2
What do you thin about the claim "Germans can't say squirrel"?
It's a bit easier than Massachusetts, but really, how do you pronounce it? I think the closest I can get is "skwirel"We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.
Spriggan's Den Heroic Fantasy Roleplaying
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2012-02-25, 07:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-02-25, 07:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Musings on Language #2
The best solution for us German speakers, I've found, is to say Skwöll and mumble a bit.
Resident Vancian Apologist
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2012-02-25, 07:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Musings on Language #2
What's wrong with Massachusets?
Mass-ah-chew-sets, nein?Si non confectus, non reficiat.
The beautiful girl is courtesy of Serpentine
My S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Call of Pripjat Let's Play! Please give it a read, more than one constant reader would be nice!
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2012-02-25, 09:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-02-25, 09:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Musings on Language #2
What are you comparing with "than"? That will tell you the answer.
"I'm better at math than him." Here, you compare your skill at math and him. "I'm better at math than I am better than him." That's not what you want to say, is it?
If you're comparing your math skill and his math skill, then you should say it like this: "I'm better at math than he is."
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2012-02-26, 11:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Musings on Language #2
A thing that just occurred to me, and that is a bit strange: why is the pronoun I capitalized in English, but no other pronoun is?
Resident Vancian Apologist
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2012-02-26, 11:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Musings on Language #2
Jude P.
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2012-02-26, 11:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Musings on Language #2
I have a weird mixture of spellings anyway. I got used to -ize, and the word "tyre" just looks weird, but -our just makes so much more sense for most words!
Resident Vancian Apologist
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2012-02-26, 11:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Musings on Language #2
One of the best searchable sites for English etymology, etymonline.com, has this for the origins and reason for capitalization of the word I:
12c. shortening of O.E. ic, first person singular nominative pronoun, from P.Gmc. *ekan (cf. O.Fris. ik, O.N. ek, Norw. eg, Dan. jeg, O.H.G. ih, Ger. ich, Goth. ik), from PIE *eg-, nominative form of the first person singular pronoun (cf. Skt. aham, Hitt. uk, L. ego (source of Fr. Je), Gk. ego, Rus. ja, Lith. aš). Reduced to i by mid-12c. in northern England, it began to be capitalized mid-13c. to mark it as a distinct word and avoid misreading in handwritten manuscripts.
The reason for writing I is ... the orthographic habit in the middle ages of using a 'long i' (that is, j or I) whenever the letter was isolated or formed the last letter of a group; the numeral 'one' was written j or I (and three iij, etc.), just as much as the pronoun. [Otto Jespersen, "Growth and Structure of the English Language," p.233]
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2012-02-26, 11:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Musings on Language #2
Only if you're speaking American or Canadian, of course. If you're speaking British (and possibly Australian? I've never heard an Australian say squirrel before... ) then Yora is right in splitting it into two syllables: Skwi-rell. (Sounds like Quirrel, of Harry Potter fame, only with an 'S' in the front. )
Originally Posted by Lord Magtok
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2012-02-26, 11:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-02-26, 02:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Musings on Language #2
In Germany, there's the age-old debate whether it's Spontaneität, or Spontanität (spontanity).
Also, whether it's Kemie and Kina or Chemie and China,Si non confectus, non reficiat.
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My S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Call of Pripjat Let's Play! Please give it a read, more than one constant reader would be nice!
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2012-02-26, 03:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Musings on Language #2
That's no debate, that's a speech impediment Spontaneität does not exist and Kina and Kemie are just wrong.
We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.
Spriggan's Den Heroic Fantasy Roleplaying
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2012-02-26, 05:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Musings on Language #2
There was a suggestion in Switzerland to spell it Schemie and Schina, though. That's only for a handful of dialects, though, and the official language is very much on the China and Chemie side of the discussion.
Resident Vancian Apologist
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2012-02-27, 05:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Musings on Language #2
That's no debate, that's a speech impediment Spontaneität does not exist and Kina and Kemie are just wrong.Si non confectus, non reficiat.
The beautiful girl is courtesy of Serpentine
My S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Call of Pripjat Let's Play! Please give it a read, more than one constant reader would be nice!
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2012-02-29, 10:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Musings on Language #2
We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.
Spriggan's Den Heroic Fantasy Roleplaying
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2012-02-29, 11:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Musings on Language #2
Quotes:Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.Spoiler
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2012-02-29, 11:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Musings on Language #2
You already nabbed Schadenfreude.
That said, aren't there already words for quite a few of those in English?Resident Vancian Apologist
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2012-02-29, 09:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Musings on Language #2
Last edited by Greenish; 2012-02-29 at 09:18 PM.
Quotes:Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.Spoiler
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2012-03-01, 01:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Musings on Language #2
Another thread on here has reminded me about something - phrases that simply do not have an easy translation into another language.
The one what was used was the Japanese phrase "yoroshiku onegaishimasu", which has a context dependent meaning - it can mean anything from 'nice to meet you', 'please be kind to me' or 'thank you for being kind to my child/friend/acquaintance' among others.
I was trying to think of some English phrases that also defy easy translation - 'pull the other one, it's got bells on' for example - and I was wondering do other people here know of similar untranslatable phrases (Friss die Hälfte was mentioned earlier).
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2012-03-01, 02:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Musings on Language #2
The easiest way to think about these kind of sentence is to add in the missing verb at the end that nobody says. Compare "I am better at math than he is" and "I am better at math than him is." Saying "him is" should sound clearly wrong to you, and it's the fact that the verb is assumed in those sentences that calls for the nominative case.
Note, however, that the expression "it's me" has come into common usage and announcing yourself using "it is I" will make you sound like you've been rehearsing your Shakespeare.
I like Zeitgeist. It's super useful when you're trying to convince people to go see movies or TV shows that are good. For example, "you should go watch My Little Pony so you can understand the giantitp Zeitgeist."
The hardest English expressions to translate are those that draw on words that have a specific meaning in expressions. For example "I'm a ham" meaning I enjoy performing and being the center of attention. Also, pretty much any American southern expression kills translation. For example, "He's got a 10 gallon hat for a 5 gallon head."
And, if I may add a personal pet peeve. Stop killing the subjunctive tense, all of you! If the sentence refers to a case other than reality, it takes "were" rather than "was." If you have said, "If I was there" you're doing it wrong and it should be "if I were there."
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2012-03-01, 04:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-03-01, 04:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Musings on Language #2
Last edited by noparlpf; 2012-03-01 at 04:13 PM.
Jude P.