Legend Of Korra: Will It Bend!

[Dienekes]

Freezing them IS unnecessary suffering. Not only are they punishing non-benders for training in the only art that can put them on par with benders (a nonlethal art, I might add), but freezing people solid is way more dangerous then binding them with metalbending. If you're frozen solid, how long until you die of cold? Or suffocate? And even if you survive, you'll probably have hypothermia or something afterwards.

I believe they were being taken down because they were a terrorist organization not because they were practicing a martial art. That we're shown that the ninjas were there confirms that. It's like arresting a mobster while they're at a restaurant. The location isn't important as long as it's easy to get them. If you have a place were all the terrorists congregate, you better believe that that would be where the SWAT strikes.

Then explain how the richest person in republic city, Hiroshi Sato, is a nonbender.

Same reason why Sokka was the smartest in Aang's group. Some people are given the intelligence and drive to succeed, bending or no bending. I've met a lot of folks naturally smarter than me, for instance, but I worked hard to get good grades, and often beat those naturally smarter. Now in this instance, Sato is a good inventor and organizer both which don't require bending at all. However, if he had bending it would only benefit him.

The nonbenders are being oppressed. They have no government representation, aren't allowed to practice self defence and aren't allowed to join the police force (from what we've seen so far), even though chi-blocking would be extraordinarily useful against bending criminals. I'm not saying that Amon has the right idea: Bending is way to important and useful to be removed from their society completely. But even permanent removal of bending would have its place as part of the justice system.

I'm not sure about this. Mind you the kingdoms are divided by bending elements but the leaders do not seem to be naturally benders except for the Air Nomads (where everyone was a bender) and the Firelords (which unfortunately is the natural progression in a society that allows combat challenges of honor). The Earth King didn't appear to be a bender and while I don't remember who exactly ruled the north water tribe, the "leader" wasn't a bender at all. So they are not politically unrepresented. Now as to the police and whatnot, that seems a bit of a leap. Since we really haven't seen them in full, just that those we have seen could bend doesn't mean that they all are required too.

[Brother Oni]

And if chi-blocking is illegal well.... that right there is an enshrining of bender superiority in law.

Chi blocking is illegal as it has no function in normal self defence except to immobilise benders, which includes a significant portion of the police force.

To use a real world example, there's limited civilian uses for armour penetrating ammunition, thus possession by civilians is generally banned or extremely restricted due to their main ability to penetrate normal police armour.

Freezing them IS unnecessary suffering. Not only are they punishing non-benders for training in the only art that can put them on par with benders (a nonlethal art, I might add), but freezing people solid is way more dangerous then binding them with metalbending. If you're frozen solid, how long until you die of cold? Or suffocate? And even if you survive, you'll probably have hypothermia or something afterwards.

Metal benders appear to be relatively uncommon (they were taught directly by Toph or her daughter), so the other benders must have developed tactics when they're not available.

Insisting on only using metal benders to lead raids is like demanding only the SAS lead hostage clearance missions - they're the best at it, but sometimes it's not practically or logistically possible.

Of the three available elements, the quickest non-lethal way of immobilising them is by freezing. They're not 'frozen solid', they just encased by ice and water benders have been shown to able to almost immediately unfreeze water, so limited exposure to the cold is unlikely to trigger hypothermia, at least no more so than ice swimming.

I agree that suffocation is a potential issue but we haven't seen anybody held for longer than 10-15 seconds yet, well within the breath holding potential of anybody fit enough to resist arrest.

Compare the alternatives available:
Earth bend the people into a cage - considerably slower and need a significant portion of the body encased, else they can still retaliate.

Fire bending - unless they can make the bending equivalent of a flashbang (and even that has the potential to burst eardrums and ignite things), it's not an option.

[BRC]

Freezing them IS unnecessary suffering. Not only are they punishing non-benders for training in the only art that can put them on par with benders (a nonlethal art, I might add), but freezing people solid is way more dangerous then binding them with metalbending. If you're frozen solid, how long until you die of cold? Or suffocate? And even if you survive, you'll probably have hypothermia or something afterwards.



Then explain how the richest person in republic city, Hiroshi Sato, is a nonbender.

While there are many jobs where bending is a huge advantage (construction, generating electricity, anything to do with combat), there are plenty where it doesn't help (but doesn't impede, either), like entrepreneurship, business, or factory work, (operating machinery).

The nonbenders are being oppressed. They have no government representation, aren't allowed to practice self defence and aren't allowed to join the police force (from what we'vehttp://www.giantitp.com/forums/ seen so far), even though chi-blocking would be extraordinarily useful against bending criminals. I'm not saying that Amon has the right idea: Bending is way to important and useful to be removed from their society completely. But even permanent removal of bending would have its place as part of the justice system.

First of all, they're not being punished for learning Chi-Blocking, they're being punished for being Equalists. Remember, the Equalists are a terrorist organization. It would be one thing if they were petitioning for greater rights and/or protections for Non-Benders, but they're not, they're declaring war on bending.

This isn't some Dojo that teaches Chi-Blocking techniques for Self Defense, this is an Equalist training camp. For all we know the Government DOES have Chi-Blockers working for it. We don't know that Chi-Blocking is illegal, just that Mako recognized those Chi-Blockers as Amon's henchmen.

Non-Benders technically do have Government Representation. The City Council appears to be made up of representatives from the Five nations (Fire, Earth, Air, Northern Water, Southern Water). I don't think there is a bending requirement to sit on the Council. I'm not sure whether the Council is supposed to serve as a governing body for the City, or if it's supposed to be something like the UN, but either way, technically Non-Benders have just as much political representation as Benders do. Now, if the Civic Authorities actually respect Non-Benders as much as Benders is a different question.

What we've seen of the Police Force is two special groups which use Bending in their tactics. The Metalbender Cops and the Waterbender SWAT teams. There is nothing to say that Nonbenders can't be standard beat-cops, investigators, or administrators.

In terms of Social Mobility, Bending is kind of interesting in that, while it's a huge help in the working class, it won't actually help you rise beyond that class. With the exception of Pro-Benders (who don't actually seem to make that much money, or maybe Bolin and Mako just have a bad agent), and maybe Bending Teachers, Bending dosn't really help with anything besides manual labor.

Of course, for your average, poorly educated citizen of Republic City, social mobility is second to putting food on the table, and if you can't get a job because you don't have Magic Kung-Fu you could get pretty resentful.


The issue is that there IS significant inequality. It's logical inequality, Benders are simply and unarguably more capable than Non-Benders at many tasks. But I don't think the non-bending masses are going to take "Sorry, tough luck" as an explanation for why their life sucks.

[Illieas]

Spoiler

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Amon pretty much outed the Equalists as a terrorist organization. And the dojo they attacked was directly affiliated with the Equalists. It would be like if someone was training people how to make bombs with a picture of Bin Laden on the wall.

Spoiler

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Hence the question about their laws. chi blocking isn't bomb making. because it doesn't cause death. it disables people but especially benders. it is as much a offensive art as it is a defensive one. only energy bending that amon used would be closest to the bomb making

and the speaker phone guy hasn't been arrest for backing the terrorist organization, so maybe they are like the US in that we have hate groups and militant groups but we can't prosecute them unless they do something illegal (pre patriot act). if they follow patriot act law the question then turn why not make the mafia= terror group and arrest all the people related down to bolin and mako.

we shall see what causes this from the full episode but from the looks of it the laws may indeed be leaning toward bender opression

[thubby]

Fire bending - unless they can make the bending equivalent of a flashbang (and even that has the potential to burst eardrums and ignite things), it's not an option.

*has flashbacks to combustion man*
if someone doesn't do this at some point in the series i will be disappointed.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Chi blocking is illegal as it has no function in normal self defence except to immobilise benders, which includes a significant portion of the police force.

To use a real world example, there's limited civilian uses for armour penetrating ammunition, thus possession by civilians is generally banned or extremely restricted due to their main ability to penetrate normal police armour.

Bending also makes up at substantial portion of the normal population and of course the criminal element. As chi-blocking is one of the only effective ways to counter all benders it restriction for use in self defense is inescapably discriminatory towards all non-benders. Because they are being placed at an automatic serious disadvantage in situations that no police force can be reasonably expected to intervene in. Thus enshrining legally bender superiority.

Also your comparison is rather invalid. Chi-blocking is thus far effective without being lethal or permanent. Actually that's its only known for sure application I believe. We don't actually know that it can be used any more lethally then choking someone the old fashioned way. Guns broadly speaking cannot be used except lethally. (No not even warning shots those are inherently dangerous from ricochet or over-penetration)

This is still closer to banning certain martial arts or particular maneuver's like groin attacks. Mind of course we don't know what's going on. A single short clip do not outlawed chi-blocking make. The emphasis of the episode may be on their being Equalists and known associates of Amon who's obviously become a high profile criminal now.

Even triad members would have rights and can certainly be considered to be violated by being kidnapped. And probably removal of bending, which I'd automatically put into a violation rather like rape. Though removal of bending may well be a case of Ain't No Rule for the gangsters but alternately there no garuntee of protection from ex post facto laws for Amon.

[Illieas]

Chi blocking is illegal as it has no function in normal self defence except to immobilise benders, which includes a significant portion of the police force.

To use a real world example, there's limited civilian uses for armour penetrating ammunition, thus possession by civilians is generally banned or extremely restricted due to their main ability to penetrate normal police armour.

/ninjaed above but i am keeping my response

i disagree it is effective self defense tool in fact probably the best self defense tool. its effects isn't restricted to benders as sokka's limbs were effect by the technique. to put into real world equivalency chi blocking =Tazer. It is non lethal, close range, and disables the person which wears off after a little while, and does zero collateral damage.

I think it is rather oppressive of the government that bans a tazer when people are walking around with guns (benders).

[BRC]

I'm still wondering where people are getting the idea that the government has banned Chi-Blocking. We saw one scene where they raided an Equalist hideout where Equalists were being taught Chi-Blocking. The Equalists are a terrorist organization training new recruits, they've all but declared war on the City at this point (They've declared war on Bending, and the city has a sizable population of Benders.) This isn't a neighborhood watch being set up, these are insurgents in training. The Bending authorities in the city may be a little wary about Chi-Blocking being taught, but we have yet to see anything that says it's actually been banned.

[Randomguy]

You've all raised many good counterarguments. (I kind of raged a bit, sorry).

It's true that ice was one of the less deadly options, but the attack was still pretty brutal: for example on person had their entire head frozen in ice. That was kind of excessive.

My main issue with the raid is that, other than the poster of Amon (which the public speaker had, as well), they didn't really have much proof that those chi-blockers were working for him. They were just training. And it's not like all of Amon's followers are extremists: A huge number of civilians came to the revelation. It's very possible that some of these people weren't training to become Amon's super-mooks, but just to learn a few practical self defence moves in case they were attacked.

I'm not sure about this. Mind you the kingdoms are divided by bending elements but the leaders do not seem to be naturally benders except for the Air Nomads (where everyone was a bender) and the Firelords (which unfortunately is the natural progression in a society that allows combat challenges of honor). The Earth King didn't appear to be a bender and while I don't remember who exactly ruled the north water tribe, the "leader" wasn't a bender at all. So they are not politically unrepresented. Now as to the police and whatnot, that seems a bit of a leap. Since we really haven't seen them in full, just that those we have seen could bend doesn't mean that they all are required too.

I meant specifically in Republic City, but now I realise that the 5 councilmen aren't all necessarily benders. My mistake.


Also, something I just realised is that the Equalists seem to be taking great pains to be nonlethal: it would be much easier to train people to wield daggers than to chi-block. So far they haven't actually been trying to kill or wound Korra, but just to incapacitate and capture her.

[John Cribati]

My main issue with the raid is that, other than the poster of Amon (which the public speaker had, as well), they didn't really have much proof that those chi-blockers were working for him. They were just training. And it's not like all of Amon's followers are extremists: A huge number of civilians came to the revelation. It's very possible that some of these people weren't training to become Amon's super-mooks, but just to learn a few practical self defence moves in case they were attacked.

Amon pretty much got on stage and declared war on a set of people he didn't like. That makes him a terrorist, and the Equalist Movement a terrorist organization by virtue of the fact that he leads the movement. Tarlokk got a tipoff that this place was where Equalists trained chi-blockers. Ergo, everyone in there is a potential terrorist, which is why he called in the SWAT team.

[BRC]

You've all raised many good counterarguments. (I kind of raged a bit, sorry).

It's true that ice was one of the less deadly options, but the attack was still pretty brutal: for example on person had their entire head frozen in ice. That was kind of excessive.
My main issue with the raid is that, other than the poster of Amon (which the public speaker had, as well), they didn't really have much proof that those chi-blockers were working for him. They were just training. And it's not like all of Amon's followers are extremists: A huge number of civilians came to the revelation. It's very possible that some of these people weren't training to become Amon's super-mooks, but just to learn a few practical self defence moves in case they were attacked.



I meant specifically in Republic City, but now I realise that the 5 councilmen aren't all necessarily benders. My mistake.


Also, something I just realised is that the Equalists seem to be taking great pains to be nonlethal: it would be much easier to train people to wield daggers than to chi-block. So far they haven't actually been trying to kill or wound Korra, but just to incapacitate and capture her.

Remember, Avatar is a Kids Show (Even though Korra has aged up it's target demographic a good deal). Anything that doesn't draw blood is assumed to be nonlethal. And things that ARE lethal are not used. The sword-wielding characters in the show seemed to use their weapons mainly to chop spears in half. Almost every episode had some kind of violence, and yet only two characters ever explicitly died. Zhao was drowned by the Ocean spirit, and Jet died off-screen. Lethal attacks (like fireballs or ice shards or thrown knives) either miss, are blocked/dodged, or end up nonlethal.

So yes, Chi Blocking is nonlethal, but in this setting almost all combat is nonlethal. The Equalists are just genre-savvy enough to realize that lethal attacks never work.


And personally, I would call a tip that this was an Equalist Hideout + A Giant Poster of Amon + Amon's Henchmen running the school sufficient proof that the students were followers of Amon. If a guy walks into a bank wearing a ski mask and brandishing a gun, you don't assume that he's just a cold second amendment enthusiast.

[Soras Teva Gee]

I'm still wondering where people are getting the idea that the government has banned Chi-Blocking. We saw one scene where they raided an Equalist hideout where Equalists were being taught Chi-Blocking. The Equalists are a terrorist organization training new recruits, they've all but declared war on the City at this point (They've declared war on Bending, and the city has a sizable population of Benders.) This isn't a neighborhood watch being set up, these are insurgents in training. The Bending authorities in the city may be a little wary about Chi-Blocking being taught, but we have yet to see anything that says it's actually been banned.

Well our police captain (or whatever he is) notes that the place where they are raiding is where Equalists "train chi-blocking in secret" which isn't explicit...

...however barring recent events the Equalist clearly operated openly what with the rabble-rouser in the park. So why would they have to train people in secret?

If the answer is because the Amon is a known wanted criminal for his crimes against the gangsters forcing the group underground and its about Equalists not chi-blocking, all is fine. As long as its about Equalists as an organized criminal front and not about chi-blocking itself.

On the other hand we know Korra is Avatar title counts for little and her companions can be disregarded as backing her up... making the case circumstantial. If this is say a fishing expedition as it were and not as directly related to previous events then why do chi-blockers have to train in secret. Because it was already outlawed is all that's left.

[MLai]

This is oppression of non-benders, pure and simple. Korra is taking part in this because she's just a headstrong teen who thinks of morality in black and white. In the previous series she'd be right at home. The current series is much more grey, and the writers have a big job ahead of them navigating around topics uncomfortably close to IRL. I applaud them for that.

Yes, Amon has broken the law. Not because he "declared war" in a rally. Freedom of speech (assuming USA-like civil liberties), he can say whatever he wants, just like his crony with the loudspeaker.

He can even loudspeaker "Fire earth water is the axis of evil" right on the doorsteps of city hall, and he's not violating any law except maybe disturbing the peace rallying without a permit. His only real crime (so far) was blocking some gangsters.

Therein lies the problem. This is a sensitive social situation not solvable by cowboy policing. Amon just did a "Robin Hood" deed. You don't respond to that by going all-out police state on his civilian supporters who are learning a self-defense art (that nonbenders can finally learn), but who are probably not privy to any of his real plans.

Ppl can open up dojos all over the city, teaching chi-blocking, and put big Amon posters on the front door. Hell their dojo teachers can all dress up as the green goggled ninjas. And they're perfectly legal unless you can actually prove that they have direct association with Amon and intend to break the law along with Amon.

And if, for argument's sake, all Amon ever does is crack down on criminal benders, then he's a folk hero and you'd be the dumbest mayor or police commissioner ever, to start cracking down on civilian dojos sporting his posters. This is exactly what this episode is doing.

Korra should not be tagging along with the bending secret police. She should be using her position to win hearts and minds, such as giving her own speech saying she's willing to listen to Amon's complaints, that they should peacefully resolve situations thru law and policy. Ppl will trust her to be an arbitrator, because she's the Avatar and not Chief Hardass Beifong. Then if Amon doesn't show up, he's the bad guy and anarchist and the Avatar had given him an opportunity to enact change peacefully.

But Korra had already squandered that neutral status now, by beating up a bunch of civilians learning a self-defense art. Because they have a poster of someone who nonlethally stopped gangsters.

[John Cribati]

And if, for argument's sake, all Amon ever does is crack down on criminal benders, then he's a folk hero and you'd be the dumbest mayor or police commissioner ever, to start cracking down on civilian dojos sporting his posters. This is exactly what this episode is doing.

You'd have a point, if not for the fact that he outright said that he's not going to stop at criminal benders, but plans to rid the world of all benders..

[Zeful]

Freezing them IS unnecessary suffering. Not only are they punishing non-benders for training in the only art that can put them on par with benders (a nonlethal art, I might add), but freezing people solid is way more dangerous then binding them with metalbending. If you're frozen solid, how long until you die of cold? Or suffocate? And even if you survive, you'll probably have hypothermia or something afterwards.

Waterbending made ice is not cold (it is never portrayed as such), as it was not made through the dropping it's tempurature past it's freezing point, it was magically compressed into a solid.

[Soras Teva Gee]

You'd have a point, if not for the fact that he outright said that he's not going to stop at criminal benders, but plans to rid the world of all benders..

Which means almost nothing on its own its just so much rhetoric. As it covers anything from restrict bending from being train or practiced publicly, to rounding up every bender for summary execution.

Right now all we can maybe make a case for would be kidnapping and maybe taking bending away. The latter of which is arguable if its illegal as other then assault.

And that's only if all the gangsters testify, otherwise you only have three close friends. And given Amon's character I'd not be surprised to see him play a court into his favor: Found Guilty By An All Bender Jury.

And that's if he doesn't turn around, can you say imprisoned martyr anyone?

[BRC]

Well our police captain (or whatever he is) notes that the place where they are raiding is where Equalists "train chi-blocking in secret" which isn't explicit...

...however barring recent events the Equalist clearly operated openly what with the rabble-rouser in the park. So why would they have to train people in secret?

If the answer is because the Amon is a known wanted criminal for his crimes against the gangsters forcing the group underground and its about Equalists not chi-blocking, all is fine. As long as its about Equalists as an organized criminal front and not about chi-blocking itself.

On the other hand we know Korra is Avatar title counts for little and her companions can be disregarded as backing her up... making the case circumstantial. If this is say a fishing expedition as it were and not as directly related to previous events then why do chi-blockers have to train in secret. Because it was already outlawed is all that's left.

The Protester was BEFORE the Revelation, AKA when the Equalists kidnapped people, dragged them onto the stage, and then Amon took away their bending, then declared his intent to do that to every bender in the city. AFTER the Revelation the Equalists may have gone from a suspicious political group to a full-scale underground rebellion. After the events of the Revelation, the city may very well have declared the Equalists an illegal group.

So why are they training in secret? Because an overt Chi-Blocking school would fall under suspicion and be investigated. Even if they don't directly connect the school to the Equalists, they would still keep the results of the investigation, which could be used to later take down Equalists.


As for Amon's "Robin Hood" deed, the fact that his victims were criminals does not justify it in the eyes of the Law. You would be hard pressed to find a court that accepts "They had it coming" as a defense.

So far we've seen Amon Kidnap people (Not innocent people perhaps (Except Bolin, who was just in the wrong place at the wrong time), but people), forcibly remove their bending (If it's not a crime already, you can bet the city council will make it one as soon as they hear about it), and then declare war on the Bending population of the city. What does he have to do before you accept that the city has a right to outlaw his organization and prosecute his followers?
Right to Free Speech does not equal a Right to Rebellion.

Amon is a threat to the City, and if the Police are not within their legal rights to stop him and his followers, then Republic City has an insanely lax legal code. Free Speech ends the moment you go from "I Think" to "I Will"


And these are not "Civillians learning self-defense", they are insurgents in training! All the evidence points to them being insurgents in training! We don't see them say "Man, I love Amon! I can't wait to go and beat up benders while overthrowing the government!", but do we need to? Yes, there is a possibility that they just want to protect themselves, but we have no evidence to back that up. We DO have evidence that they are Amon's soldiers in training, as evidenced by the giant posters of Amon and the fact that they are being trained by his soldiers. It's not 100% conclusive, but come on.

Now, the question of if Amon is RIGHT is a different matter entirely. I personally haven't seen much evidence of Benders actively oppressing non-benders, it's possible I guess. Maybe Benders in the city treat non-benders as second-class citizens, maybe the Police let the Triads operate because, eh, they're just squeezing money out of non-bending scum. Maybe everything Amon says is true, and the only way to bring equality is to destroy Bending forever! Maybe that training camp is just a neighborhood watch that some of Amon's men are teaching on their off-hours.


Or maybe Amon is a delusional madman using a legitimate social issue ( I don't think it's possible for there to be no inequality between Benders and non-benders without significant social reforms, but I have yet to see evidence of any intentional oppression) to bring about a violent revolution that will catapult him into power.

Now here is the thing, Whichever of these is true, Korra's actions would be basically identical, because she's a thug whose moral compass is stuck pointing towards violence. She's well intentioned, but she's naive and quick to resort to violence.


I agree that the show is going to take a shades-of-grey approach. But you people seem to see those shades before they've actually shown up. You're so impatient that you're inferring potential interpretations, then taking them as the truth.

Remember, Korra is our guide in this world. I have a feeling that when they start muddying the moral waters they won't hide it.

[Yanagi]

A huge number of civilians came to the revelation. It's very possible that some of these people weren't training to become Amon's super-mooks, but just to learn a few practical self defence moves in case they were attacked.

We don't know enough from the clip to assume the intentions of those people one way or another. Presumably when the episode airs we'll get a better framing. Given the tone so far of the show, it's possible that unfair suspicion of non-benders is a theme that will be addressed...but I doubt that it will be framed in such a fashion as "Amon's followers are totally legitimate." The Equalists are using hate-group logic, generalizing that every single bender is culpable for the acts of some. There is no magic balance fairy that makes it okay to be bigoted because one has experienced bigotry.

And the "civilians" at The Revelation were witnesses to, if not enthusiastic supporters of, an act of vigilante-ism. Amon and his mooks could have beaten those triad guys and thrown them to the police, but instead set up this spectacle as a show of power. And taking away bending--well, there's no precise real world equivalent, but I'd say it's closest to maiming someone.

Also, something I just realised is that the Equalists seem to be taking great pains to be nonlethal: it would be much easier to train people to wield daggers than to chi-block. So far they haven't actually been trying to kill or wound Korra, but just to incapacitate and capture her.

Um...you're assuming a whole lot there. There are bunch of other interpretations than, "they're not trying to hurt anyone." The obvious one being that it's a kid's show and nobody dies onscreen, let alone gets stabbed and bleeds everywhere. But setting that aside:

We've seen them be nonlethal because they were capturing people so that Amon could fight them onstage and then bend-neuter them. We haven't seen them gain a definitive edge in a fight such that they had a bender at their mercy...where there wasn't a specific goal of capturing benders for Amon to neuter.

There's also the darker issue of what would have happened next during that rally had it not been interrupted: would the crowd really be content just to let those triad guys walk away?

The use of nonlethal force may just be a tactical choice, as it would make them less of a salient threat to law enforcement, and fit the propaganda they're putting out better than straight calls for murder. Now that they've seized people and harmed them, the may be viewed as a different category of public risk.

Finally, there's the question of if there's an ulterior aspect to Amon's purges of bending abilities such that he wants to capture and neutralize benders because it benefits him somehow.

[Kd7sov]

Waterbending made ice is not cold (it is never portrayed as such), as it was not made through the dropping it's tempurature past it's freezing point, it was magically compressed into a solid.

Support, please.

Certainly, it does not behave precisely like normal, physical ice; see, for instance, when Katara traps Jet the first time. That said, that instance seems to also rule out the "compression" hypothesis as well.

When Katara freezes the Fire Nation soldiers on Zuko's ship, back at the South Pole, it certainly looks like the firebenders are attempting to get them out with the heat from their fire.

In short, I find your hypothesis unsupported and unlikely.

[John Cribati]

Tarrlock has an informant about where the Equalists train and stuff, right? You don’t just get informants like that in a week (because the Ferrets have a week to make 30K Yuans, and that probably hasn’t come back up yet). That means that he’s been tracking the Equalist Movement’s… movements for some time now. Which means that he almost certainly had a guy at Amon’s rally. A rally at which Amon got up on stage and said “I have this power, and I plan to use it on a group of people I don’t like, against their will, to rid the world of them.” Amon is, for all intents and purposes, a terrorist. And if Amon is a terrorist, that makes the Equalist a terrorist organization, or at the very least, an organization affiliated with a terrorist. To the authorities, this wasn’t a martial arts self-defense class. This was terrorist training, full-stop, exclamation point, do not pass Go, do not collect 200 Yuans, Run Forrest, Run.
I’m not saying that the way it went down was objectively right, mind you, but “get in there and subdue any and everyone by any means necessary” is standard anti-terrorist protocol.

[DeathOfAMailman]

Vis-a-vis the raid of the chi-blockers; I'd have everyone note that what the SWAT team did was no more than arrest--note, that's arrest, not execute, legally punish or permanently harm--citizens suspected of having committed a crime. They did the same thing to Korra when she first arrived in the city and destroyed half a block, as well as the three gangsters she apprehended. I don't see anything unjust or oppressive about detaining, whether for trial or questioning, people who are legitimately suspects for having committed a crime.

[John Cribati]

Vis-a-vis the raid of the chi-blockers; I'd have everyone note that what the SWAT team did was no more than arrest--note, that's arrest, not execute, legally punish or permanently harm--citizens suspected of having committed a crime. They did the same thing to Korra when she first arrived in the city and destroyed half a block, as well as the three gangsters she apprehended. I don't see anything unjust or oppressive about detaining, whether for trial or questioning, people who are legitimately suspects for having committed a crime.

Yeah, but most of the arguments have something to do with the use of excessive force. You don't have to, for example, shoot a guy in the foot if he's running from a traffic violation or some nonsense like that, but in the case of an actual violent assault suspect, it's perfectly rational to have your gun out in case he tries something.

These guys were, in the eyes of the SWAT team, terrorists (or terrorist affiliates) who threaten a large-ish population of the city, so the SWATs basically have free reign in terms of the amount of force deemed "necessary."

[Zeful]

When Katara freezes the Fire Nation soldiers on Zuko's ship, back at the South Pole, it certainly looks like the firebenders are attempting to get them out with the heat from their fire.

Because it would work. Ice formed through compression (molecular compression) is still composed of water, that has a boiling/condensation and melting/freezing point. Heating it would cause it to start reverting back to water quickly if it wasn't below freezing.

However, the ice would have formed at the same temperature the water was, so in that instance (as it was pulled from the Antarctic waters and thus below freezing) it would behave as normal ice would, though the salt content might make it melt quicker.

As for support, to freeze the amount of water in the scene (or any equivalent showing of waterbending, ever) by lowering it's ambient temperature, the room would have to shoot up 70-80 degrees in seconds (Law of Thermodynamics, the energy has to go somewhere), making the room fill with a dense, hot, fog, as the hot air immediately contacts the water. It does not, ever, thus the ice cannot be made through normal freezing processes.

[MLai]

(1) As Soras said, Amon's rhetoric is just rhetoric. IRL we've heard much worse from public figures. The only thing you can pin on him AT THIS POINT is that he nonlethally took bending away from some known criminals.

Is it illegal? Sure it is! But are you a political moron for forcefully cracking down on his THOUSANDS of civilian supporters (see eps. 3) for it? YOu bet you are.

"Oh but he's declared genocidal war on all benders!" AFAIK, there's no tape recorder in Avatarverse. He said something, but it's just talk and he can spin it however he wants. The only thing he actually DID is that he nonlethally took bending away from some known criminals.

This is not just a legal issue like in an episode of Batman. What's happening in this city is a widespread social issue that won't go away by throwing a book at somebody.

(2) Police brutality, HO! Given the above I just wrote, the response the bender police decided on was to charge in without announcing themselves, and then encase people inside ice cubes, or crush them against the wall using huge slabs of rock. On fleeing unarmed civilians. Anybody would be fleeing if they suddenly saw the room flooding, and exactly no one said "This is the police stay where you are you're under arrest!"

Yeah they're learning chi-blocking, a NONLETHAL TEMPORARY art, and exactly zero of them had any weapons.

This is how you deal with terrorists with AK-47s, and drug dealers with AK-47s. This is a TERRIBLE way to deal with a martial arts dojo of civilians who openly sympathize with a folk hero.

Legal? Maybe. Politically moronic? Definitely. Yeah, we've seen IRL examples of how awesomely police crackdowns work on stamping out social unrest.

[Zeful]

This is how you deal with terrorists with AK-47s

Which is what Equalist supporters learning chi-blocker are to the establishment.

[Seraph]

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Hence the question about their laws. chi blocking isn't bomb making. because it doesn't cause death. it disables people but especially benders. it is as much a offensive art as it is a defensive one. only energy bending that amon used would be closest to the bomb making

in real combat parlance, "disabled" is treated as good as "dead." this is for two reasons:

1) once disabled, you are more or less at your opponents mercy.
2) a disabled enemy is unable to provide support to their allies, and said allies are occupied trying to protect the disabled.

look at the fight again.

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Korra isn't just unable to bend, her arm is clearly paralyzed for a short while. Chi blocking likely isn't just a counter to benders, it can disable nonbenders as well - and the people in Avatar aren't stupid, they understand that if a Chi blocker takes your bending and stuns your legs, there's pretty much nothing stopping them from following it up with a brick to the back of the head.

[BRC]

The Police are not cracking skulls at a peaceful protest, they're raiding a training facility for Equalist soldiers. We've already seen that Chi Blockers can take on Benders. These are not "Civillians who openly sympathize", they are Amon's Followers, training to fight for him and join his cause.

You're putting the Chi-blocking dojo into a modern context, where Martial Arts are mainly a novelty in terms of serious conflict. In the Avatarverse, Martial Arts are HOW people fight, or did you forget Ty Lee and Mai taking down an entire platoon of Earthbenders who were trying to stop The Drill. The SWAT team is better armed yes, but they're supposed to be. They don't get points for playing fair. They're supposed to show up with overwhelming force to quickly neutralize threats.

They don't have a Tape Recorder, but they do have at least three witnesses to his words, assuming nobody in the crowd comes forward. Plus, from the sound of things, Amon isn't exactly hiding what he said (He wanted the civic authorities to hear about it).


Also, in a universe where kung-fu fireballs are all but nonlethal, I don't think you can get points by saying Chi Blocking dosn't kill. In the Avatarverse, almost nothing does.

[Silverraptor]

The Police are not cracking skulls at a peaceful protest, they're raiding a training facility for Equalist soldiers. We've already seen that Chi Blockers can take on Benders. These are not "Civillians who openly sympathize", they are Amon's Followers, training to fight for him and join his cause.

You're putting the Chi-blocking dojo into a modern context, where Martial Arts are mainly a novelty in terms of serious conflict. In the Avatarverse, Martial Arts are HOW people fight, or did you forget Ty Lee and Mai taking down an entire platoon of Earthbenders who were trying to stop The Drill. The SWAT team is better armed yes, but they're supposed to be. They don't get points for playing fair. They're supposed to show up with overwhelming force to quickly neutralize threats.

They don't have a Tape Recorder, but they do have at least three witnesses to his words, assuming nobody in the crowd comes forward. Plus, from the sound of things, Amon isn't exactly hiding what he said (He wanted the civic authorities to hear about it).


Also, in a universe where kung-fu fireballs are all but nonlethal, I don't think you can get points by saying Chi Blocking dosn't kill. In the Avatarverse, almost nothing does.

Especially since they have his face plastered up on the wall. Its obvious this is a underground training facility that will turn out "Terrorists" against all benders.

[Yanagi]

The only thing he actually DID is that he nonlethally took bending away from some known criminals.

How is taking away someone's bending not an assault? This a world where spiritual existence is just as meaningful as physicality. Removing a fundamental part of a person against their consent...albeit one that isn't organic...is a massive violation.

And Amon has exactly zero right to punish anybody for anything.

[Ashen Lilies]

Permanently removing someone's bending is 'non-lethal' in the same way that cutting off their hands or blinding them is 'non-lethal'.

Try that against a known criminal in real life, and see exactly what sort of police attention that gets you.