How do you capture a wizard?

[bloodtide]

Challenge: you can't use full casters with access to level 4+ spells or replicate (via scroll or wand or similar means) spells over level 4. This applies to psionics and other full caster equivalency systems as well. Things like warlocks are fine, as are items which require high level spells, TOB is fine assuming you don't use arcane swordsage to get level 4+ spells. (obviously this doesn't apply to me)
Nothing over level 20. (10 for me)
No infinite loops.
Standard, non-crafting enhanced WBL for both of us.
Maximum 100 levels total for you, standard WBL for those levels.

Agreed?

The OP was about a 10th level wizard. I was thinking of sticking to that level. So that limits just about everything to 5th level spell wise. As the 'foe' is slightly stronger to make things a challenge I can use a bit more(but I'm not a crazy optimizer type anyway, so don't worry) So things of 10-12 level/CR for me.
No infinite loops.
Standard WBL, but it gets kinda tricky. If the goodlaw guard wants to capture a single wizard it's a whole organization vs one character.

I'd also want to add that we must both agree for something to be final, to avoid the crazy stuff like ''a dire tortoise can use it's surprise round to cast a spell'' that I would never agree to, no matter what anyone wants to say they think they want a rule to say and do.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

But not a Crazy Cheating Optimized Character just made to win the argument.

I would be offended if I didn't realize that by 'cheating' you meant 'anything that contradicts my argument, even if it does follow the rules'.

Yes, you can make an unbeatable character a couple ways. But that is by no means a normal character in a normal game world. The court wizard of the kingdom does not walk around as a dire tortoise 24/7 in any type of normal game. Even if your just the local wizard that runs a tavern, you don't sit behind the bar as a dire tortoise all day and night.

I'm sorry, but there's no room in your games for an eccentric wizard who spends most of his time in alternate forms? I thought all wizards were supposed to be more than a little batty in the belfry. Their eccentricities and oddities are part of their mystique.

Gandalf insisted on bringing along an overweight aristocrat for a burgler. Fisban... well... do I need to go on? Heck, Merlin (from the Disney's version of Sword and the Stone) made frequent and profligate use of polymorph to instruct the young Arthur. And don't get me started on Raistlin...

I've yet to read about a wizard in literature who isn't seen as a bit peculiar by the mundanes around him.

Being ridiculous is part and parcel of being a wizard. After all, when everyone sees you as loony, they tend to underestimate you. Laugh all you like at the crazy old wizard who enjoys spending his time as a turtle. But when someone tries to attack... it'll be the crafty old wizard who laughs last. At least, unless he hits you with Tasha's Uncontrollable Laughter first, then he will concede that point to you. Dominate Person is also quite a good way to have some amusement at the expense of a heckler's pride.

Of course, no paranoid wizard would likely use a spell that has good odds of not being effective (due to immunity/repression of mind-affecting), so you'd probably just get hit with Split Ray Enervation and be next to useless until the following action (you know, once he's done with his standard action, it's Celerity as an immediate action) which will finish you off. Assuming he doesn't use one of his Save or Lose spells in his repitoire (Glitterdust, Stinking Cloud, Resilient Sphere...)

And if I start getting low on spells left... just DimDoor/Teleport out, and Rope Trick/MMM and relax with a good drink and an ancient text to peruse over.

[Flickerdart]

Standard WBL, but it gets kinda tricky. If the goodlaw guard wants to capture a single wizard it's a whole organization vs one character.

It is very likely that the goodlaw guard also has other criminals they are after, plus administrative costs, upkeep costs, staff, a scouting network, taxes...they will not have the entire organization available for this one task, dropping all other jobs.

I'd also want to add that we must both agree for something to be final, to avoid the crazy stuff like ''a dire tortoise can use it's surprise round to cast a spell'' that I would never agree to, no matter what anyone wants to say they think they want a rule to say and do.

Oh, this is gonna be good.

[Eisenfavl]

The OP was about a 10th level wizard. I was thinking of sticking to that level. So that limits just about everything to 5th level spell wise. As the 'foe' is slightly stronger to make things a challenge I can use a bit more(but I'm not a crazy optimizer type anyway, so don't worry) So things of 10-12 level/CR for me.
No infinite loops.
Standard WBL, but it gets kinda tricky. If the goodlaw guard wants to capture a single wizard it's a whole organization vs one character.

I'd also want to add that we must both agree for something to be final, to avoid the crazy stuff like ''a dire tortoise can use it's surprise round to cast a spell'' that I would never agree to, no matter what anyone wants to say they think they want a rule to say and do.

''a dire tortoise can use it's surprise round to cast a spell''

Well if you get pearls of speech and gloves of man it can, but IIRC pearls of speech are a consumable item, and at level 10 assuming I don't just make NI gold, I am unlikely to spare that expense every single day.

I said that you shouldn't be using 5+ level spells, because otherwise you can just go "I send 4 wizard with your exact build" after you.
Whole organisation is why I said ~100 levels, nothing epic. If you don't use tier 1/2 characters, and don't replicate their abilities through items, I am confident that I can beat anything non epic.
Maybe make it 4 000 level points, characters cost their level squared in level points?
Should we take this to PM's / a new thread?

[Flickerdart]

The Pearl of Speech is not a consumable item. It has a permanent effect (speaking a language) and a daily effect (DC11 command). It costs 600gp.

[Eisenfavl]

The Pearl of Speech is not a consumable item. It has a permanent effect (speaking a language) and a daily effect (DC11 command). It costs 600gp.

Oh so it does. Lovely.
Looks like talking turtles are back.

[Menteith]

...crazy stuff like ''a dire tortoise can use it's surprise round to cast a spell'' that I would never agree to, no matter what anyone wants to say they think they want a rule to say and do.

This is what the rule says. You're the one twisting it, and house-ruling it specifically due to how you feel about it. The rule is clear, unambiguous, and allows for the casting of a spell. I don't know why this seems to offend you; you're really aggressive about it, even though you're wrong, according to the rules.

[Eisenfavl]

This is what the rule says. You're the one twisting it, and house-ruling it specifically due to how you feel about it. The rule is clear, unambiguous, and allows for the casting of a spell. I don't know why this seems to offend you; you're really aggressive about it, even though you're wrong, according to the rules.

Debatably, the form of a turtle can't speak or perform the somatic components with its claws.
If this is wrong I would be happy to hear it though.

[Menteith]

Debatably, the form of a turtle can't speak or perform the somatic components with its claws.
If this is wrong I would be happy to hear it though.

Polymorph:
As Alter Self, except...(nothing that causes you to lose Spell Casting)

Alter Self:
You assume a new form....You retain any spellcasting ability you had in your original form, but the new form must be able to speak intelligibly (that is, speak a language) to use verbal components and must have limbs capable of fine manipulation to use somatic or material components.

Gloves of Man and Pearl of Speech cover Somatic and Verbal components; other components shouldn't be affected. What's the issue?

[Eisenfavl]

Oh, I know that the items cover the issue. I was wondering if you were saying that I didn't need the gloves to do it.

[Menteith]

Oh, I know that the items cover the issue. I was wondering if you were saying that I didn't need the gloves to do it.

If you don't want to use 3.0 (Gloves of Man are from Savage Species if I remember correctly), prepare Stilled Spells? Yet another relatively easy way around the issue is to not rely on spells with Somatic components; Dimension Door doesn't have a Somatic Component, for example, and saves you the trouble of buying the gloves.

[Eisenfavl]

If you don't want to use 3.0 (Gloves of Man are from Savage Species if I remember correctly), prepare Stilled Spells? Yet another relatively easy way around the issue is to not rely on spells with Somatic components; Dimension Door doesn't have a Somatic Component, for example, and saves you the trouble of buying the gloves.

This is a horrible slew of both of us mis-reading each others posts.
I was just asking if you were telling me that I didn't need to use a trick to get around polymorphs restrictions to cast, which you aren't.

[bloodtide]

This is what the rule says. You're the one twisting it, and house-ruling it specifically due to how you feel about it. The rule is clear, unambiguous, and allows for the casting of a spell. I don't know why this seems to offend you; you're really aggressive about it, even though you're wrong, according to the rules.

Well, it's clear to some people that the dire tortoises ability of lighting strike is and was just meant to be a 'physical attack'. Now some people will ready a bit too much into a simple line of text and see the lightning strike ability to 'perform any action', and that is a bit of a stretch, and the words are not on the page either. This is just the simple case of some people reading what they want into something just as an author did not write down 25 paragraphs of legalese defining every single possible use and interaction of a simple ability.

It's just a difference of option.

[Flickerdart]

You don't even need hands, just something like them. Your favourite way of growing tentacles will suffice, for instance.

[Eisenfavl]

You don't even need hands, just something like them. Your favourite way of growing tentacles will suffice, for instance.

That's true. I could persist 3 spells to give me 4 working arms and 2 (4?) working tentacles for fine manipulation.

[Menteith]

This is a horrible slew of both of us mis-reading each others posts.
I was just asking if you were telling me that I didn't need to use a trick to get around polymorphs restrictions to cast, which you aren't.

Sorry! Yeah, I was misreading you. Whoops .

@ Bloodtide

I see Lightning Strike telling me that a Dire Tortoise will get a surprise round regardless of whether it's been noticed. A surprise round gives a standard action. There isn't an ambiguity here - nor would I even call it abusive. It's a feature of the Dire Tortoise's form that they can respond with such speed to danger that they gain a few seconds to act before everyone else. Anyone using the form is capitalizing on those greatly enhanced reflexes to act the way they need to. I can understand your position, and it is frustrating that it can negate so many otherwise useful attacks on casters; I've banned it before in my games. But it's still completely legal.

[Eisenfavl]

Well, it's clear to some people that the dire tortoises ability of lighting strike is and was just meant to be a 'physical attack'. Now some people will ready a bit too much into a simple line of text and see the lightning strike ability to 'perform any action', and that is a bit of a stretch, and the words are not on the page either. This is just the simple case of some people reading what they want into something just as an author did not write down 25 paragraphs of legalese defining every single possible use and interaction of a simple ability.
It's just a difference of option.

The problem we are getting here is that you are implying that what the author intended is what is written down. It isn't, and because RAW (rules as written) is as close to absolutely undebatable as we can get, it is what we use.
Plus, as written means you are actually playing the games instead of houseruling & homebrewing.
The contest, if it is going to happen, will have to be by RAW, because it is the closest to a solid, defined set of agreed upon rules as we will ever get.

[bloodtide]

The problem we are getting here is that you are implying that what the author intended is what is written down. It isn't, and because RAW (rules as written) is as close to absolutely undebatable as we can get, it is what we use.
Plus, as written means you are actually playing the games instead of houseruling & homebrewing.
The contest, if it is going to happen, will have to be by RAW, because it is the closest to a solid, defined set of agreed upon rules as we will ever get.

While I understand that we can do something like this if one person will just say ''oh that spell does this as I say so'', I think we must agree to use common sense.

Obviously(to some) the author of every single feat, spell, creature, item and so forth did not absolutely think of everything, including things not even created at the time it was printed. So the rules will always be open to interpretation. And this is where common sense comes in.

So just as page 115 in one book says 'if the day ends in Y you get a free action', does not mean you can crazily optimize that single free action to knock the moon out of orbit. Even if you can do it by 'the rules as written'. But it's all pointless without common sense. Anyone, with common sense, can say, well obviously that should not work that way.

It's as bad as getting the video game cheat of 'invincibility' and then finishing the game to level 100. And while you did finish the game, you did not win the game and your win does not count.

[Eisenfavl]

While I understand that we can do something like this if one person will just say ''oh that spell does this as I say so'', I think we must agree to use common sense.

Obviously(to some) the author of every single feat, spell, creature, item and so forth did not absolutely think of everything, including things not even created at the time it was printed. So the rules will always be open to interpretation. And this is where common sense comes in.

So just as page 115 in one book says 'if the day ends in Y you get a free action', does not mean you can crazily optimize that single free action to knock the moon out of orbit. Even if you can do it by 'the rules as written'. But it's all pointless without common sense. Anyone, with common sense, can say, well obviously that should not work that way.

It's as bad as getting the video game cheat of 'invincibility' and then finishing the game to level 100. And while you did finish the game, you did not win the game and your win does not count.

But common sense is arbitrarily declared. Furthermore, the contest was under the premise that we are talking about the rules. Under common sense, a level 10 fighter who has trained all his life to fight wizards would beat a random level 10 wizard, but in practise (with the rules) the wizard destroys him with 2-3 spells at most.
The premise of this thread is RAW wizards, and the premise of the contest is RAW wizards. My wizard won't be Pun-Pun, but he will be ridiculously powerful, because he is a character built as tier 1, and is by definition going to be optimised.
This IS an optimisation challenge, after all.

[Menteith]

While I understand that we can do something like this if one person will just say ''oh that spell does this as I say so'', I think we must agree to use common sense.

Obviously(to some) the author of every single feat, spell, creature, item and so forth did not absolutely think of everything, including things not even created at the time it was printed. So the rules will always be open to interpretation. And this is where common sense comes in.

I'm completely with you so far. Infinite loops, Candle of Invocation, Dust of Sneezing and Choking, Thought Bottle, Wish use through Summoning/Calling are all easy ways to break a low power game, and I generally ban/restrict these (and other) abuses unless I'm playing in a really high powered game.

So just as page 115 in one book says 'if the day ends in Y you get a free action', does not mean you can crazily optimize that single free action to knock the moon out of orbit. Even if you can do it by 'the rules as written'. But it's all pointless without common sense. Anyone, with common sense, can say, well obviously that should not work that way.

It's as bad as getting the video game cheat of 'invincibility' and then finishing the game to level 100. And while you did finish the game, you did not win the game and your win does not count.

Also true - the issue is that I honestly don't think that the Dire Tortoise's Lightning Strike ability is anywhere near, say, a Hulking Hurler (who can not only knock the moon out of orbit, but can throw the moon as a Standard Action). No one is going to disagree that there are unintended aspects of the game, and that restricting them is good for certain campaigns. What people are taking issue with is how restrictive you're being; There is a league of difference between something like Lightning Strike and something truly broken.

[Aegis013]

Here's a level 10 wizard I played in a game awhile back. He breaks WBL badly, and there are a few custom items, but he existed in an actual game.

Spoiler

Show

Focused Specialist Illusionist 5/Shadowcraft Mage 5 (Gnome Illusionist sublevels 1 and 5, Illusion mastery ACF)
Race: Whisper Gnome
Align: N
Spd: 40ft
Initiative: +9

HP: 108
AC: 28 (Touch 14, FF: 25)
SR: 18

Str 8, Dex 17, Con 25, Int 27, Wis 13, Cha 15
Fort 15+5 in some circumstances, Ref 11, Will 19

BAB: 6

Flaws: Noncombatant, Vulnerable
Feats:
1. Trade Scribe Scroll for Imp Initiative, Spell Focus: Illusion, Heighten Spell, Earth Sense.
3. Earth Spell.
6. Signature Spell: Silent Image
*8 Otyugh hole for Iron Will
9. Residual Metamagic

Skills of note: Concentration 20, Knowledge Arcana 24, Knowledge the Planes 24, Spellcraft 63 (custom items), Craft(Drawing) 19, Bluff 6, Hide 33, Move Silently 26, Spot and Listen usually handed by Owl familiar
Skill Tricks: Collector of Stories and Swift Concentration

Banned Schools: Evocation, Enchantment, Necromancy.
Spells Per Day 0: 3, 1: 3+3, 2: 3+3, 3: 2+3, 4: 2+2, 5: 1+2

I had a lot of time and access to spellbooks and libraries, so I've got a huge number of spells known.

Known 0's: Silent Image, Ventriloquism, Detect Magic, Prestidigitation, and others.

Known 1's: Color Spray, Nerveskitter, Enlarge Person, Grease, Wall of Smoke, Protection from Evil, Ray of Clumsiness, Resinous Tar, Karmic Aura, Treacherous Weapon, True Casting, Targeting Ray, Hoard Gullet, Benign Transportation, Guided Shot, Scholar's Touch, Protection from Chaos, Shield, Combat Readiness, Comprehend Languages, Snuff the Light, Disguise Self, Arrowmind, True Strike, Minor Image.

Known 2's: Invisibility, Arcane Turmoil, Jaws of the Moray, Glitterdust, Levitate, Web, Rope Trick, Quick Potion, Detect Thoughts, Major Image, Resist Energy, Insidious Insight, Alter Self, Heroics, Delusions of Grandeur, Spymaster's Coin, Phantom Foe

Known 3's: Phantasmal Strangler, Invisibility Sphere, Haste, Dispel Magic, Sleet Storm, Unluck, Anticipate Teleportation, Mass Snakes' Swiftness, Slow, Shrink Item, Greater Magic Weapon

Known 4's: Greater Mirror Image, Persistent Image, Polymorph, Celerity, Perfect Summons, Spell Enhancer, Assay Spell Resistance, Dispelling Screen

Known 5's: Friend to Foe, Shadow Evocation, Draconic Polymorph, Telekinesis, Greater Enlarge Person

Items:
Head: Headband of Int +6
Face: Artificer's Monocle
Throat: Continual Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis
Shoulder: War Wizard Cloak
Body: Robe of the Archmagi
Torso: Vest of the Archmage
Arms: Bracers of +30 competence bonus to spellcraft(custom item)
Hands: Gloves of the Arcanist
Waist: Belt of Battle
Feet: Boots of Big Stepping
Rings: Ring of Spellcraft +10 untyped(custom item)
Ring(2): Freedom of Movement

Ioun Stones:
+1 caster level, +6 constitution (double cost for slotless), sustenance, +1 AC (dodge bonus), +1 on attacks/skills/saves/ability checks, +2 cha, pale lavender (absorbs 4th level spells or lower, none absorbed yet)

Weapon: +5 Spell storing, Greater Dispelling Light xbow
Shield: +5 Githcraft Darkwood Buckler

Miscellaneous other:
Heward's Handy Haversack, Bag of Holding III, Cloak of Resistance +1, Bracers of Armor +1, chalice which poisons any one who drinks from it, ring of Call Water Elemental (has 3 uses, the Water Elemental was ehanced somehow, but I don't know how), Spellblade Dagger (Arcane Turmoil), Orb of Mental Renewal, Tome of Worldly Memory, Greater Metamagic Wand: Quicken Spell, Lesser Metamagic Wand: Persistent Spell(custom item), Metamagic Wand Grip, Eternal Wands: Detect Magic, Anticipate Teleportation, Create Magic Tattoo, Repair Serious Damage, Sphere of Awakening, 2oz Sovereign Glue, Crystal of Returning Least, Crystal of Lifekeeping Great, Spool of Infinite Rope, Heward's Fortifying Bedroll, Wands of: Tongues 49 charges left, Sending 31 charges left, Knock 49 charges left, See Invisibility 48 charges left.

Typical Contingencies:
Persistent Detect Magic, 24 hour Anticipate Teleportation, Phantom Steed always around. This one is debatable, as Bag of Holding is non-dimensional space, but in the game the DM had allowed me to cast a Silent Image inside the bag; I was able to persistent spell (with the lesser metamagic rod) a level 0 silent image, that had free Heighten and Earth Spell applied from a previous casting thanks to Residual Metamagic. So I would have my silent image persisted inside my bag which I would hold open and it would cast mimicked spells from inside.

How would you catch my wizard? Yes, I know my contingencies could be improved.

If my party is around, there's a level 10 DMM: Persist Cleric, Wildshape Focus druid, Warblade, and Rogue.

[Emperor Tippy]

Meh, I much prefer a persistent Foresight to Dire Tortoise. That let's you shapechange into useful forms without giving up your inability to be flatfooted. It also negates the whole debate over what a Dire Tortoise can and can't cast.

And an Air Weird has the SU ability to duplicate Foresight at will. Just Shapechange into one of those every 2 hours or so for a round and recast Foresight.

[The Glyphstone]

Meh, I much prefer a persistent Foresight to Dire Tortoise. That let's you shapechange into useful forms without giving up your inability to be flatfooted. It also negates the whole debate over what a Dire Tortoise can and can't cast.

And an Air Weird has the SU ability to duplicate Foresight at will. Just Shapechange into one of those every 2 hours or so for a round and recast Foresight.

Shapechange at level 10? Yes, it is possible. No, it is not what one should consider anything but the premium levels of optimization.

[Malachei]

Shapechange at level 10? Yes, it is possible. No, it is not what one should consider anything but the premium levels of optimization.

I think it breaks the game, because it lets characters outgrow their own character advancement: Essentially, you're now borrowing abilities from other creatures to handle challenges far above your own CR. And that is an issue for the game itself: Winning the game, at the cost of the game. And that is why I think the discussions always ending in "Ice Assassin" is a bit of an issue and a one-way-street. We should also tell people: Don't try this at home, you're DM may hate/punish you for it.

[Emperor Tippy]

Shapechange at level 10? Yes, it is possible. No, it is not what one should consider anything but the premium levels of optimization.

I was talking as a general statement. At level 10 whether or not you get to act in the surprise round is irrelevant for capturing a wizard (at least if the wizard isn't abusing UMD or the like to get higher level spells early). The attacker can have a Weirdstone (shuts down teleporation and planar travel in a 6 mile radius), a Craft Contingent Forbiddance set to activate if Celerity is cast (the attacker already get's to act in the surprise round thanks to being the attacker) would also shut down teleportation for a bit. A Craft Contingent Sculp Spell Widened Forcecage will no save contain the wizard and attacker inside about an 80-90 square foot area that's 10 feet high.

All the sudden, before he can act, the wizard can't teleport and is trapped with an enemy inside a solid forcecage that prevents flight or passage. Now the attackers just chase him around and beat on him until he is unconscious.

Or the attacker just Wish's the wizard straight into their pre-prepared dead magic prison plane.

Unless you are using high end optimization/cheese then you can't make yourself self at 10th level. You need access to 9th level spells to really make yourself safe.

[Corwin_of_Amber]

This thread went to a really wierd place. It's not that I've never seen this discussion before, but the fact that it's in reference to a party of level 10s.

I have always wondered, in a world where the PCs can reach this level of defense and paranoia, how do you explain why there is not already an iron-fisted regime of the first Wizard to reach level 17, along with his 500,000 Mindraped Ice Assassins, killing everything that gets above level 5? Honestly, that's the real problem with using these tricks.

If you begin to look at it realistically you have the issue of why the PCs are the first ones to do it, rather than running into a world run by wizards and their industrialized cities, based on legions of Ice Assassins/Simulacrums creating infinite resources with assembly lines casting Fabricate to generate unlimited wealth to create wands of fabricate, to just use those wands every round of every day.

And then, if you choose to look at it as a game, you begin to realize that the inevitable arms race of this mentality will, in fact, lead to a world of Pun Pun (or at least a homogenized powerful build that everyone becomes), as you optimize ever further to create a challenge. So really, everyone has to draw a line somewhere, or else the entire thing breaks down. All that's happeneing here is an argument from opposite sides of the bear-riding, spellcasting bear shooting out more bears turtle caster line.

I mean, aside from games where this is explicitly the norm (epic, playing gods, etc), has anyone had a campaign not break down when a Wizard becomes able to solo gods? It honestly doesn't seem practical for the average campaign.




Anyway, I have decided to go with Drow* Mystic Ranger 5/Fighter 1/Occult Slayer 2. Occult Slayer gives me a nice little surprise for the first set of spells that the players launch at me. Fighter is there to get the extra feat so that I can fit in Boost SR from BoVD, to get up to 21 SR. I will be keeping the Con relatively low, so the players can take a bunch of them down during the engagement, so it doesn't seem like I'm railroading this part as hard as I actually am. (How else do you run an escape adventure in the middle of a campaign, right?)

I would like the leader of the group to do something similar to an Arcane Archer with an infused arrow AMF. Are there any classes or PrCs that get AMF as a low level spell, so that I can keep him under 11 levels? Or, is there any way to replicate this?

I am going to give the entire group 2 scrolls of Dimensional Lock to cast on an item. My first though it to use it on a net, but I was wondering if anyone knows of some item that the characters will not be able to remove for a few minutes?

Also, weirdstone is unhelpful, because you can teleport out of the radius, just not into it.

*They'll be reflavored slightly to fit in with the campaign. Also, they won't be purple.

[Emperor Tippy]

This thread went to a really wierd place. It's not that I've never seen this discussion before, but the fact that it's in reference to a party of level 10s.

I have always wondered, in a world where the PCs can reach this level of defense and paranoia, how do you explain why there is not already an iron-fisted regime of the first Wizard to reach level 17, along with his 500,000 Mindraped Ice Assassins, killing everything that gets above level 5? Honestly, that's the real problem with using these tricks.

Because it's not worth the effort. Leaving aside the fact that level 20 casters are incredibly rare in the first place, it's just really not worth the effort involved. And that assumes that you don't piss off a god that says "You know what? Die now." and just wills you dead using Life and Death. The only way to become immune to that is to pick up Singular Enemy. And even if you have done that, nothing it stopping a god from moving you to a time locked dead magic plane after stripping all of your persistent magical defenses. By the time you have taken a single action to escape, the heat death of the universe has already occurred.

If you begin to look at it realistically you have the issue of why the PCs are the first ones to do it, rather than running into a world run by wizards and their industrialized cities, based on legions of Ice Assassins/Simulacrums creating infinite resources with assembly lines casting Fabricate to generate unlimited wealth to create wands of fabricate, to just use those wands every round of every day.

Why would anyone with the ability to do what you propose, do it? What do they gain?

And then, if you choose to look at it as a game, you begin to realize that the inevitable arms race of this mentality will, in fact, lead to a world of Pun Pun (or at least a homogenized powerful build that everyone becomes), as you optimize ever further to create a challenge. So really, everyone has to draw a line somewhere, or else the entire thing breaks down. All that's happeneing here is an argument from opposite sides of the bear-riding, spellcasting bear shooting out more bears turtle caster line.

I mean, aside from games where this is explicitly the norm (epic, playing gods, etc), has anyone had a campaign not break down when a Wizard becomes able to solo gods? It honestly doesn't seem practical for the average campaign.[/quote]
Soloing gods is a bitch, leaving that aside though; sure. In high level play you don't deal with local issues, and local issues is defined as anything that isn't threatening at least one entire planet. You are dealing with extra-planar concerns and your enemies are all just as capable as you are.

Anyway, I have decided to go with Drow* Mystic Ranger 5/Fighter 1/Occult Slayer 2. Occult Slayer gives me a nice little surprise for the first set of spells that the players launch at me. Fighter is there to get the extra feat so that I can fit in Boost SR from BoVD, to get up to 21 SR. I will be keeping the Con relatively low, so the players can take a bunch of them down during the engagement, so it doesn't seem like I'm railroading this part as hard as I actually am. (How else do you run an escape adventure in the middle of a campaign, right?)

And you are stopping Teleport how? Or Flight? Or Xorn Movement?

As for SR, Assay Spell Resistance is cast as a swift action and gives +10 to the CL check to overcome SR. At 10th level a wizard using it will always overcome SR 21, and it will last the entire encounter.

Assay Spell resistance + Baleful Polymorph means make a DC 22 or so Fort save or loose. Figure a good fort save and 18 Con and you only get +9 on that save, meaning a 60% chance of loosing the fight right then. Then there is Bestow Curse to hit you with a 50% chance of not acting each round, or a 6 point drop in a stat.

I would like the leader of the group to do something similar to an Arcane Archer with an infused arrow AMF. Are there any classes or PrCs that get AMF as a low level spell, so that I can keep him under 11 levels? Or, is there any way to replicate this?

Not really.

I am going to give the entire group 2 scrolls of Dimensional Lock to cast on an item. My first though it to use it on a net, but I was wondering if anyone knows of some item that the characters will not be able to remove for a few minutes?

Dimensional Lock only has a 20 foot radius, getting out of it's range is a single move action. And no, there are no items that the players couldn't get themselves out of in a round or two.

Also, weirdstone is unhelpful, because you can teleport out of the radius, just not into it.

No you can't. Teleport has a Target line of Touch. You can't use teleport if inside the radius of a Weirdstone, regardless of where you are trying to teleport to.

[Malachei]

This thread went to a really wierd place. It's not that I've never seen this discussion before, but the fact that it's in reference to a party of level 10s.

Yes, and it is right in the OP you've posted. But if it doesn't at least once have "Ice Assassin", a thread on what casters can do is not really finished. :)

No you can't. Teleport has a Target line of Touch.

Actually, teleport's target line says "Personal and touch".

And that assumes that you don't piss off a god that says "You know what? Die now."

That is something I agree with, and find plausible. Especially if I humiliate his solar

[Emperor Tippy]

Actually, teleport's target line says "Personal and touch".

Doesn't change my point, at all. The target of the spell is still within the range of the Weirdstone and thus you can't teleport inside that radius.

That is something I agree with, and find plausible. Especially if I humiliate his solar

He has a trillion or so other solars, unless you are making a solar kill puppies or the like the gods simply don't give a ****.

[Malachei]

He has a trillion or so other solars, unless you are making a solar kill puppies or the like the gods simply don't give a ****.

No, he does not have a trillion or so other solars. That's your personal opinion and your houserule assumption.