Metal Thread VII: The Mosh Pit Don't Start 'Til We Walk In

[Nameless]

It's hard being primarily into death metal and black metal on the internet. Power metal and symphonic seems to be everyone else's bag and I can't stand that crap. And when they are into death metal it's that melodic stuff like Opeth which is as dull as anything.

I'm bitter and listening to Carcass, what do you want from me?

Opeth aren't Melodeath, they're Prog. And they're fricking amazing!

I actually find Traditional Death Metal incredibly boring, which is why I tend to lean towards Melodeath bands. Norther being one of my favorites.
I used to like traditional Death Metal as well, but I find that it gets kinda old. I like my extreme music, but I prefer it when it has melodies, symphony, or harmonies. Having nothing but heavy guitar riffs and blast beats bores me very quickly.
It's the same reason why I don't like most old school Black Metal, but still like the more contemporary Progressive, Depressive, and Melodic Black Metal genres.

I tend to stay away from the symph crowd. Not that I don't like the stuff (I most certainly do), but those people tend to be such rabid zealots, who all think that Nightwish was the sole reason Man was put on earth. Makes my brain feel icky.

Pfft, Nightwish haven't been Symphonic since like, 2006.
Anyway, that's silly. Everyone knows that Kamelot are the greatest Symphonic Power Metal band on the face of the planet.

[Hawkfrost000]

Anyway, that's silly. Everyone knows that Kamelot are the greatest Symphonic Power Metal band on the face of the planet.

This Nameless guy, he knows what he's talking about.

DM

[Faulty]

You clearly do not frequent the same places I do Crunk. The forums I frequent are more enthusiastic about black, doom, death and thrash. I live in utopias.

[WhamBamSam]

It's hard being primarily into death metal and black metal on the internet. Power metal and symphonic seems to be everyone else's bag and I can't stand that crap. And when they are into death metal it's that melodic stuff like Opeth which is as dull as anything.

I'm bitter and listening to Carcass, what do you want from me?

It's easier on the internet than it is in the real world.

I'm a Classic/Power/Thrash Metal fan first and foremost, but I do love me some Death Metal, and actually got into it before I came to really appreciate Thrash. I'm not sure where exactly you'd draw the line of death metal becoming too melodic, but I imagine early Death and Morbid Angel at least ought to pass muster. I'm a fan of Carcass as well, but mostly Necroticism and Heartwork, which are proggier and more melodic than their earlier stuff.

If you want to talk Death Metal, talk Death Metal. People here (including me) will probably respond, and if they don't, so what? Same with Black Metal, though I probably won't have much to say, as I find it as dull as you find Power Metal.

[DJ Yung Crunk]

...huh. While *I* tend to find that the internet is saturated with death metallers. And I've also had some very interesting conversations about black metal on various forums and sites.

So have I, but not in metal communities. Mostly with my fellow jazz and hip hop enthusiasts.

Also the only good Opeth is Damnation. Heh.

I heard a few of their albums, they're really not for me.

I tend to stay away from the symph crowd. Not that I don't like the stuff (I most certainly do), but those people tend to be such rabid zealots, who all think that Nightwish was the sole reason Man was put on earth. Makes my brain feel icky.

Preach it like you teach it, Feytalist!

Opeth aren't Melodeath, they're Prog. And they're fricking amazing!

That may be why I don't like them, then. Prog and I have a strained relationship. I liked her just fine back in the good ol' King Crimson days but she's gotten fat since then. And she only wants to talk about herself.

I used to like traditional Death Metal as well, but I find that it gets kinda old. I like my extreme music, but I prefer it when it has melodies

Gonna have to stop you right there. Death metal does have melodies, just obscured melodies. It's actually very similar to contemporary jazz. It's got that same sort of abstract composition and emphasis on expressive musicianship. It probably explains why me and my jazz nerd friends think it's the bee's knees.

It's the same reason why I don't like most old school Black Metal, but still like the more contemporary Progressive, Depressive, and Melodic Black Metal genres.

Black metal has improved with age, I'll grant you. Not that it wasn't great before but I tend to be more invested in black metal the more atmospheric or, as above, creatively composed it is. The indie rock influences it's getting these days are only improving it.

You clearly do not frequent the same places I do Crunk. The forums I frequent are more enthusiastic about black, doom, death and thrash. I live in utopias.

I'm lukewarm about doom and thrash. I tend to like thrash in its extremes, either really technical or just barely hardcore punk. Doom, while I have listened to the odd good album here and there, tends to fall too often to some pretty unbearable tropes. The imagery is more present there than with any of the other genres I mentioned and it makes the whole thing end up sounding like pasty, anemic Black Sabbath worship.

Death and black, though? I like death and black.

It's easier on the internet than it is in the real world.

Wouldn't know. I know very few metal enthusiasts, unless you count the jazz guys who listen to death metal from time to time.

I'm a Classic/Power/Thrash Metal fan first and foremost, but I do love me some Death Metal, and actually got into it before I came to really appreciate Thrash. I'm not sure where exactly you'd draw the line of death metal becoming too melodic, but I imagine early Death and Morbid Angel at least ought to pass muster. I'm a fan of Carcass as well, but mostly Necroticism and Heartwork, which are proggier and more melodic than their earlier stuff.

What's "Classic" if I may ask. I'm not sure where I'd draw the line for "melodic" either, actually. I can't define it, but I know it when I hear it. Death, Morbid Angel and Carcass are all, of course, great.

If you want to talk Death Metal, talk Death Metal. People here (including me) will probably respond, and if they don't, so what? Same with Black Metal, though I probably won't have much to say, as I find it as dull as you find Power Metal.

I get that. Black metal's a grower. Even someone as into it as me has to be in the right mood otherwise it passes over me as white noise and puts me to sleep. Not to mention the uh... unfortunate... um... social implications.

[Nomrom]

It's hard being primarily into death metal and black metal on the internet. Power metal and symphonic seems to be everyone else's bag and I can't stand that crap. And when they are into death metal it's that melodic stuff like Opeth which is as dull as anything.

I'm bitter and listening to Carcass, what do you want from me?

That's funny, since I seriously feel like 75% of this thread is about black and/or death metal. I never have anything to add to the conversation since I don't really listen to much of either of those.

[WhamBamSam]

Wouldn't know. I know very few metal enthusiasts, unless you count the jazz guys who listen to death metal from time to time.

That's more or less the point. Save for my younger brother and maybe his drummer on a good day, the most metal any of my friends get is a core kiddie here or there.

What's "Classic" if I may ask. I'm not sure where I'd draw the line for "melodic" either, actually. I can't define it, but I know it when I hear it. Death, Morbid Angel and Carcass are all, of course, great.

"Classic" is a nebulous and not terribly useful term that can apply to any group whose first release predates Kill 'Em All or whatever other arbitrary benchmark you feel like using. I generally mean Priest, Maiden, Dio, and the like when I use it.

A lot of Melodeath skeeves me off too to be honest. Heartwork gets a pass from me, as do Amon Amarth and the occasional other band or album here or there.

I don't suppose you're as excited as I am about the new Carcass album being released this month?

[DJ Yung Crunk]

That's funny, since I seriously feel like 75% of this thread is about black and/or death metal. I never have anything to add to the conversation since I don't really listen to much of either of those.

I pop my head in from time to time and the topic generally seems to be power/symphonic which is why I don't tend to get involved in these threads. That and, well, I don't think I'm into metal as you folks are.

"Classic" is a nebulous and not terribly useful term that can apply to any group whose first release predates Kill 'Em All or whatever other arbitrary benchmark you feel like using. I generally mean Priest, Maiden, Dio, and the like when I use it.

I tend to call that stuff "Heavy Metal". "Classic metal" works too. Gives a bit of symmetry with "classic rock".

A lot of Melodeath skeeves me off too to be honest. Heartwork gets a pass from me, as do Amon Amarth and the occasional other band or album here or there.

It's worth noting that "Melodic Death Metal" wasn't a thing when Heartwork came out. The tropes I detest weren't established by then.

I don't suppose you're as excited as I am about the new Carcass album being released this month?

Absolutely! Though I rarely get music on time, with a backlog as large as mine. So, for me, it's coming out in about six months.

[Feytalist]

Pfft, Nightwish haven't been Symphonic since like, 2006.
Anyway, that's silly. Everyone knows that Kamelot are the greatest Symphonic Power Metal band on the face of the planet.

inorite

Which is something those fanboys don't seem to get

Not that Kamelot doesn't have its own rabid fancrowd.

So have I, but not in metal communities. Mostly with my fellow jazz and hip hop enthusiasts.

Interestingly, some of the most interesting conversations I've had on the subject has been on a certain imageboard.

I heard a few of their albums, they're really not for me.

Damnation isn't metal at all

Preach it like you teach it, Feytalist!

Word.

I get that. Black metal's a grower. Even someone as into it as me has to be in the right mood otherwise it passes over me as white noise and puts me to sleep.

I actually do have some black metal as sleep music (that is, music I put on while I sleep). Mostly the atmospheric stuff. I turn it way down right to the edge of hearing. Wonderfully soporific.

"Classic" is a nebulous and not terribly useful term that can apply to any group whose first release predates Kill 'Em All or whatever other arbitrary benchmark you feel like using. I generally mean Priest, Maiden, Dio, and the like when I use it.

I do love me some old school metal, yeah. There's also this sort of classic revival thing going on which I fully support. Bands like Axel Rudi Pell play some really good old school heavy metal. And Ereb Altor has a very nice Bathory-era black/Viking sound.

[Nameless]

This Nameless guy, he knows what he's talking about.

DM

That's because I'm awesome like that.

That may be why I don't like them, then. Prog and I have a strained relationship. I liked her just fine back in the good ol' King Crimson days but she's gotten fat since then. And she only wants to talk about herself.

Eh, Prog covers a pretty wide variety of music, since it can be applied to most music genres. I listen to a lot of Post-Metal, and a great deal of that is Prog.

Gonna have to stop you right there. Death metal does have melodies, just obscured melodies. It's actually very similar to contemporary jazz. It's got that same sort of abstract composition and emphasis on expressive musicianship. It probably explains why me and my jazz nerd friends think it's the bee's knees.

Well, yeah, I suppose so. Almost all Metal has melodies in it one way or another, I just find that traditional Death Metal doesn't really have a good balance for me. Especially seeing a lot of it use deep growls, which I general like less then screams which are often used in Melodeath and Black Metal.
Mind you, there are of course exceptions, Insomnium being one of them. But again, they're Melodeath. I rarely like the very deep, almost burpy growls used by some Brutal Death Metal and Grindcore bands.
I could happily listen to Death Metal, but I wouldn't go out of my way looking for albums to buy.

I'm also not a big Jazz fan. I don't mind it, and I like Jazz fusion, but as far as oldie music goes, I'm more of a Baroque and Classical kinda guy. (Although considerably more oldie)

Black metal has improved with age, I'll grant you. Not that it wasn't great before but I tend to be more invested in black metal the more atmospheric or, as above, creatively composed it is. The indie rock influences it's getting these days are only improving it.

The projects Tim Yatrass has been involved in are awesome, and I'm not just saying that because he's my favorite drummer.
Just sayin'.

As for the whole Indie Rock influences, I partly agree, although it's not just Indie influences it's been drawing influence from. But we're getting into Post-Metal now.
*cough*Alcest*cough*

inorite

Which is something those fanboys don't seem to get

Not that Kamelot doesn't have its own rabid fancrowd.

All Symphonic [inerts sub-genre] bands have rabid fans. It's just a fact of life.

What makes Kamelot so good is that they actually try to create a solid fusion of Metal with various Symphonic genres, and tie it together with well-written, meaningful lyrics.

They don't just do what 90% of other bands do:

*write generic 9 minute Power Metal song about dragons*
*insert arbitrary chords with keyboard effect #35 in the background*
*wear flouncy cheese-cloth shirts*

ERMAHGERD WE'RE SO SYMPHONIC.

[DJ Yung Crunk]

Eh, Prog covers a pretty wide variety of music, since it can be applied to most music genres. I listen to a lot of Post-Metal, and a great deal of that is Prog.

Obviously I was referring to Opeth's brand of prog. Pop prog, if you will. Didn't the context give that awat?

Well, yeah, I suppose so. Almost all Metal has melodies in it one way or another, I just find that traditional Death Metal doesn't really have a good balance for me. Especially seeing a lot of it use deep growls, which I general like less then screams which are often used in Melodeath and Black Metal.
Mind you, there are of course exceptions, Insomnium being one of them. But again, they're Melodeath. I rarely like the very deep, almost burpy growls used by some Brutal Death Metal and Grindcore bands.

Well we all know about grindcore and jazz's long and colorful history

I'm also not a big Jazz fan. I don't mind it, and I like Jazz fusion, but as far as oldie music goes, I'm more of a Baroque and Classical kinda guy. (Although considerably more oldie)

I wouldn't call jazz 'old', especially not contemporary jazz, which is what I'm referring to.

The projects Tim Yatrass has been involved in are awesome, and I'm not just saying that because he's my favorite drummer.
Just sayin'.

As for the whole Indie Rock influences, I partly agree, although it's not just Indie influences it's been drawing influence from. But we're getting into Post-Metal now.
*cough*Alcest*cough*

Yeah I don't get post rock vibes from Alcest as much as I do shoegaze. I think indie rock's a bit more accurate a term to use because of how much more encompassing it is. Post rock implies it's taking certain influences when, let's be honest, it's lifted the whole thing.

[Killer Angel]

If we're discussing prog, here is my contribution.

[Nameless]

Obviously I was referring to Opeth's brand of prog. Pop prog, if you will. Didn't the context give that awat?

Opeth's brand of Prog? Pop Prog? What?

I wouldn't call jazz 'old', especially not contemporary jazz, which is what I'm referring to.

I was being semi-humorous.

Yeah I don't get post rock vibes from Alcest as much as I do shoegaze. I think indie rock's a bit more accurate a term to use because of how much more encompassing it is. Post rock implies it's taking certain influences when, let's be honest, it's lifted the whole thing.

I didn't say anything about Post-Rock, I was simply saying that Post-Metal draws influences from all sorts of genres, not just Indie Rock. (Hence Alcest)

Fun fact: Neige didn't know anything about Shoegaze when he began forming his sound.

[Feytalist]

All Symphonic [inerts sub-genre] bands have rabid fans. It's just a fact of life.

What makes Kamelot so good is that they actually try to create a solid fusion of Metal with various Symphonic genres, and tie it together with well-written, meaningful lyrics.

They don't just do what 90% of other bands do:

*write generic 9 minute Power Metal song about dragons*
*insert arbitrary chords with keyboard effect #35 in the background*
*wear flouncy cheese-cloth shirts*

ERMAHGERD WE'RE SO SYMPHONIC.

Hey, generic 9 minute power metal songs about dragons are awesome

I do like what Kamelot does, yeah. I also like that they keep to the more gallopy power metal here and there.

But my favourite symph is still Therion. Even the really weird albums they've recently released. That bombastic over-the-top grandiosity is the true symphonic spirit, at least for me.

Plus I still giggle madly everytime Snowy Shaw makes any kind of appearance.

[DJ Yung Crunk]

Opeth's brand of Prog? Pop Prog? What?

The type of prog Opeth draws influence from and sounds similar to is what I like to call "pop prog". Prog compositions in pop trappings. Let's face it. It's hardly Zubi Zuva.

[WhamBamSam]

I tend to call that stuff "Heavy Metal". "Classic metal" works too. Gives a bit of symmetry with "classic rock".

All the possible terms bug me on some level. Using Heavy Metal means that you lose it as a blanket term for all metal genres, words like Classic/Old School/Traditional create difficulties in delineating between bands like Sabbath and bands like Iron Maiden, which are really quite different, and NWOBHM is a problem because some bands predated the movement (Judas Priest), aren't Brittish (Dio), or were a part of the same scene but don't really sound like Maiden (Venom, Motorhead). It's an incessant problem in my pursuit of armchair musicology.

It's worth noting that "Melodic Death Metal" wasn't a thing when Heartwork came out. The tropes I detest weren't established by then.

A lot of the big Melodeath tropes were established exactly then. It's not quite Slaughter of the Soul (good thing too), but just about every band in that style has scavenged something directly from Carcass' carcass.

Absolutely! Though I rarely get music on time, with a backlog as large as mine. So, for me, it's coming out in about six months.

This is the first year since basically ever where I've been generally on time with new releases, probably because I'm continuing to lag behind on older releases.

I do love me some old school metal, yeah. There's also this sort of classic revival thing going on which I fully support. Bands like Axel Rudi Pell play some really good old school heavy metal. And Ereb Altor has a very nice Bathory-era black/Viking sound.

The new Holy Grail and Satan albums are frontrunners for my AotY, as I've mentioned in what's probably a solid 70% of my recent posts in this thread.

If we're discussing prog, here is my contribution.

Definitely some good stuff there, I'm generally not too fond of the stock Power Metal tenor vocals, but he's not the most egregious example I've been exposed to, and the songs and melodies seem pretty cool on first listen. I've been up basically all night though, and tend to form unreliable opinions when I'm this tired. I'll come back to it once I've squeezed in an afternoon nap.

[Nameless]

If we're discussing prog, here is my contribution.

That's not trve. The song's under 12 minutes.

[Amidus Drexel]

That's not trve. The song's under 12 minutes.

12 minutes? The only real benchmark for song length is an hour.

[Comrade]

12 minutes? The only real benchmark for song length is an hour.

Only if you're a drone doom fan :v

[DJ Yung Crunk]

All the possible terms bug me on some level. Using Heavy Metal means that you lose it as a blanket term for all metal genres

Uh... What about "metal"?

[Amidus Drexel]

Only if you're a drone doom fan :v

Among other things... yes.

[Nameless]

My favorite Depressive Black Metal band, Austere, are re-releasing their debut.

It's not anything new as such, but seeing as they split up a while ago, at least it's something.

Spoiler

Show

[Killer Angel]

My favorite Depressive Black Metal band, Austere, are re-releasing their debut.

It's not anything new as such, but seeing as they split up a while ago, at least it's something.

To console yourself, try Woods of Desolation?

(Well, probably you already knew...)

[Nameless]

To console yourself, try Woods of Desolation?

(Well, probably you already knew...)

I already know.

Also, another project Tim's involved in, (Because Austere and WoD weren't awesome enough) Grey Waters.

(posting because this project is relatively unknown compared to the others)

[grimbold]

That's cool, man. Do link to it when you get to it. I want me some Venom

welp
https://svartr.bandcamp.com/album/ev...nothing-single
theres the single
enjoy!

on topic
austere is incredible and I always thank nameless for getting me into them, there is something truly magic about the way those guys make music

[Faulty]

omg the false

Emergency death metal engage.

[DJ Yung Crunk]

Okay so it's not metal and I did post this on the music thread but since it does feature Kerry McCoy of Deafheaven it's at least partially topical here.

So a rapper I'm quite fond of, Antwon, recently rapped his song "In Dark Denim" over McCoy's post rock instrumentation. Post rock and hip hop together at last. Can't say I'm surprised, hip hop has been making atmospheric strides in recent years. Fingers crossed for a full length of this. Seriously, guys. It's amazing

[Faulty]

Smaller list than my BM list, but here's some DM from this year for you Crunk:

Antediluvian - λόγος
Bölzer - Aura
Lantern - Below
Pentagram Chile - The Malefice
Sacriphyx - The Western Front
Sulphur Aeon - Swallowed by the Ocean's Tide
Tyrant Goatgaldrakona - Horns in the Dark
Vasaeleth - All Uproarious Darkness
Verminous - The Unholy Communion

The Verminous and Bölzer are two of my favorites of the year.

[Comrade]

Some more 2013 death metal (I'm pretty sure I've already posted a more or less identical list, but I'm much too lazy to be arsed to go back and look :v)

Suffocation - Pinnacle of Bedlam

Defeated Sanity - Passages Into Deformity

Carcass - Surgical Steel

Gorguts - Colored Sands

Immolation - Kingdom of Conspiracy

Onirophagus - Prehuman

Deeds of Flesh - Portals to Canaan

Devourment - Conceived in Sewage

Of the lot, I'd have to single out Passages Into Deformity as probably the best of the year so far. It's actually my favourite Defeated Sanity release.

[Feytalist]

New Satyricon album out.

I've never really cared for them but I'm thinking of giving it a listen simply because there's nothing else coming out. And that makes me a sad panda.