World of Tanks II: Fighting, Bragging, Raging Edition - All aboard the Lemming Train!

[Gnoman]

I've started playing with the British TD line, and I have to say that I'm rapidly falling in love with the 2-pounder, which I didn't use much on the actual tanks. It's got amazing penetration for it's tier, and it's very accurate as well. Plus, it sounds really nice. I honestly can't remember a gun that I would regret giving up so much.

[Leon]

Since I have average damage of 555 and average of 2,4 kills in it, I'm inclined to believe it's the best tier 3. Mean gun with view range of 400 meters means f I end up in Province and there aren't experienced TD's on the enemy side it's pretty much sure win. That game I pasted bumped my crew to 99-100% base qualification, and now I'm training BIA. With that and camo later on FCM36 will probably get pretty ridiculous.

Training Camo first will get your skills actually doing something as you play since BiA does nothing till all are 100% in it where as Camo will be in effect from 1% to 100% then once you have the first skill at max switch the around

[Grif]

I've started playing with the British TD line, and I have to say that I'm rapidly falling in love with the 2-pounder, which I didn't use much on the actual tanks. It's got amazing penetration for it's tier, and it's very accurate as well. Plus, it sounds really nice. I honestly can't remember a gun that I would regret giving up so much.

The 2pdr is what makes Matilda the fun tank of its tier. Totally OP.

[GloatingSwine]

Never be training a perk, always train skills that will have some benefit then drop skills to turn them into an active or nearly active perk.

I like to start with Mentor on the commander, because on the long trek up multiple skills that 10% extra will make a solid difference.

For a sniping TD I'd go Mentor on the commander, clutch braking on the driver so you can turn faster, and camo for everyone else for first skill, then second fill in camo on commander and driver and take repairs on everyone else.

At some point you may want to drop skills on the commander and turn something into sixth sense.


I'm unconvinced of the utility of Brothers in Arms, in real terms it's a 2.15% performance increase, which is barely noticable in accuracy and is of the order of hundredths of a second on reload (Even on the drum reload on my AMX 13-75 it's only .3 of a second), which are the only things you'll really care about on a sniper TD. You could maybe take it on arty, where even 2.15% reload is a significant real-time difference at high tiers.

[Grif]

Never be training a perk, always train skills that will have some benefit then drop skills to turn them into an active or nearly active perk.

I like to start with Mentor on the commander, because on the long trek up multiple skills that 10% extra will make a solid difference.

For a sniping TD I'd go Mentor on the commander, clutch braking on the driver so you can turn faster, and camo for everyone else for first skill, then second fill in camo on commander and driver and take repairs on everyone else.

At some point you may want to drop skills on the commander and turn something into sixth sense.


I'm unconvinced of the utility of Brothers in Arms, in real terms it's a 2.15% performance increase, which is barely noticable in accuracy and is of the order of hundredths of a second on reload (Even on the drum reload on my AMX 13-75 it's only .3 of a second), which are the only things you'll really care about on a sniper TD. You could maybe take it on arty, where even 2.15% reload is a significant real-time difference at high tiers.

Sixth Sense is invaluable. I always drop my maxed out Mentor to get Sixth Sense as soon as it is available for silver retraining.

[Eldariel]

Sixth Sense is invaluable. I always drop my maxed out Mentor to get Sixth Sense as soon as it is available for silver retraining.

Don't you lose some hard-earned XP that way?

[Grif]

Don't you lose some hard-earned XP that way?

Too cheap to spend it on gold. Small price to pay anyway, at least for the first skill/perk. (I usually only use it for the Commander, since Sixth Sense is the only perk I feel that's worth getting.)

[Leon]

Best way to not lose any of the first is to get the second slightly advanced so it suffers the fall off and not the primary when retraining with Credits

[Brother Oni]

Best way to not lose any of the first is to get the second slightly advanced so it suffers the fall off and not the primary when retraining with Credits

I haven't reached a second skill/perk with any of my crew yet, so I'd like to ask some questions:

How is the reduction handled if there's insufficient XP in the secondary skill to pay for the loss? Is the current skill lost or is it kept and you have to retrain it to get rid of it (necessitating another loss if not paying with gold)?

What happens if you max out Skill A (eg Mentor), start training Skill B (eg Sixth Sense), then re-train Skill A to Skill B (Mentor to Sixth Sense)? Is the XP totalled for checking the training level of Skill A before getting to repick Skill B, or does the system not permit you to do this?


For interest, if the formula on the wiki is correct, by my calculations your second perk/skill needs to be at 38% to not lose any XP from the first skill/perk.


Incidentally, could someone point me at a refresher course on differentiation? I had to brute force the 'total xp' earned value through Excel as I couldn't remember how to differentiate the XP equation.

[Erloas]

So I went with the Tiger II. Everyone says the IS is one of the best heavies for its tier but my win rate with the IS (and KV-3) are considerably lower then with my Tiger, so despite the implied inferiority and weakness of the Tiger it must match my play style better.
Also I had a full set of German crew from one of the VKs in my barracks that were about 90% of the way through their first perk/skill and the IS-3 would have had to start with base crew because I didn't have enough free exp to burn to unlock the IS-3 as well as finishing the KV-3 so I could steal its crew.

It took all of my money because most of the tanks I want to sell aren't elited yet and the ones that are were not worth enough to make a difference. In fact I had to sell some of the free one-use items they've given to us during previous events to retrain the crew for the Tiger II and buy the upgraded engine and radio (already unlocked from the Tiger).
So far it is 1 win, 1 loss. I'll probably burn quite a lot of my free EXP to unlock a few things on it. Think I have about 42k free exp, so I can either get the track and turret (think the track is required for the turret?) or the first 10.5 and part of the way through the second 10.5.

[Grif]

I haven't reached a second skill/perk with any of my crew yet, so I'd like to ask some questions:

How is the reduction handled if there's insufficient XP in the secondary skill to pay for the loss? Is the current skill lost or is it kept and you have to retrain it to get rid of it (necessitating another loss if not paying with gold)?

What happens if you max out Skill A (eg Mentor), start training Skill B (eg Sixth Sense), then re-train Skill A to Skill B (Mentor to Sixth Sense)? Is the XP totalled for checking the training level of Skill A before getting to repick Skill B, or does the system not permit you to do this?


For interest, if the formula on the wiki is correct, by my calculations your second perk/skill needs to be at 38% to not lose any XP from the first skill/perk.


Incidentally, could someone point me at a refresher course on differentiation? I had to brute force the 'total xp' earned value through Excel as I couldn't remember how to differentiate the XP equation.

The XP for skill levels are actually totalled up, before being reduced by your training method of your choice. Doing so will also reset any skill you have picked, meaning that you have to reselect them again.

Everyone says the IS is one of the best heavies for its tier

lolno.

It is easy to use, has pretty bouncy armour and is quite forgiving in the hands of a unskilled driver. But it has a subpar 175 pen gun and the nerfs to its turret armour hit it quite hard. Best tier 7 heavy (even before the IS nerf) goes to the T29 and its uber turret, mainly because it also sports a good mix of accurate gun and mobility.

[GloatingSwine]

Also, Gawd, the 75mm grind on the M6 is terribad. Gun doesn't have anything, low pen, low damage, poor accuracy.

It makes the QF 77mm feel like a doomcannon.

[Rustic Dude]

Please tell me you're talking about the 76 mm M1A2 gun.

[darksolitaire]

Ace Tanker requirement for FCM36 Pak40 was surpassed with 1780 exp. 9 kills, 1300 damage like few days prior, and Scout-badge makes up the remaining 489 exp I missed last time I made those numbers. I was in platoon with another friend playing Chi Ha, and he unfortunately only did two kills I was sitting over the ridge in province while he was assaulting the other side, and I thought it was he who spotted all those tanks.

I feel dirty for playing this thing. At least I got my ass handed to me in tier 5 games and when team abandons me to block approach to Malinovka or Himmelsdorf hill alone

I'm not too keen to fiddle around with crew skills. I always either go to BIA or 6th sense+repair/camo for first skills, and this time around I picked BIA. Seeing how it improves everything, even though so little, I can't be convinced that it isn't worth it. I'm also picking my crew skills with the thought that they will have 3 when fully trained.

Want horrible stock grinds? Why not try Churchill Gun Carrier, or AT 8? For CGC, the last gun compensates the lack of armor and mobility of the chassis (wiki lists "Decent signal range" as one of it's pro's ). No 32 pounder yet? Tough luck. For the former, someone had the sadistic humor to stick a roadblock called 75 mm AT Gun Mk. V with 91 penetration on way to the good stuff That 203 frontal armor also has huge weak spot that's impossible to miss.

[GloatingSwine]

Please tell me you're talking about the 76 mm M1A2 gun.

All of them. All it's gun choices that aren't the 90mm. The M1A2 is just the least worst.

[GloatingSwine]

I'm not too keen to fiddle around with crew skills. I always either go to BIA or 6th sense+repair/camo for first skills, and this time around I picked BIA. Seeing how it improves everything, even though so little, I can't be convinced that it isn't worth it. I'm also picking my crew skills with the thought that they will have 3 when fully trained.

BIA gives you no benefit at all if it's not at 100%, and to get a skill to 100% takes a lot of XP. Even if you think you're going to use BIA eventually you should still pick a skill, any skill, to train, never a perk. At least then you're getting some benefit out of whatever it is.

[mistformsquirrl]

Victory!
Battle: Malinovka Thursday, March 21, 2013 3:44:08 AM
Vehicle: M26 Pershing
Experience received: 1,408
Credits received: 35,301
Battle Achievements: Steel Wall

Note - That's not a Super Pershing, that's a regular every day M26 >_> I was hull down juuuust over a hill from about half the enemy team, and almost every shot they fired hit my mantlet and bounced. It was glorious.

It was also the first time playing Campinovka I DIDN'T want to pull my hair out; we actually had a good match because both teams pretty much unanimously decided to screw the camping and entirely concentrate on the hilly side of the map instead. Was a much, much more interesting fight that way, though I suppose the other team may disagree.

[AMX]

Sooo... I've been considering getting into WoT lately - it certainly looks interesting at first glance, but...
-It's online multiplayer only. I'm really more of an offline single-player person.
-It seems to feature an excessive amount of grinding; I hate that.
-There's a bit of a "pay to win" smell about it; I object to that on principle.

Plus, there are multi-gun tanks, but they can not actually use more than one gun.

Since we seem to have a few people here who know the game I would like to ask if there's any point trying WoT, or if I should just go looking for a traditional TankSim.

[Erloas]

It is arena based shooter combat in tanks, not really trying to be a tank Sim in any real way.
If online multiplayer is not something you do then you may as well stop now and look for something else.

The grind is there if you let it, but otherwise not really. If it is important to you to have a tier 10 tank (the highest) then it is going to be a big grind to get there. However I've been playing for quite a while now (close to a year maybe?) and I just picked up my first tier 8 tank and most of my other tanks and equipment I picked up on sale which cuts down the money grind a lot. Also I have a lot of tanks so I can play a long time with different tanks before I run out of my double-exp games, which helps cut down the grinding feel of it.
So in short how much grinding you do it mostly related to how patient you are.

There are a lot of fun tanks in the T3-6 range (which all almost always make money, even on bad losses) and those can be acquired quickly. (there are quite a few of bad tanks in the that range too, the AMX 38/40 and M3 Lee stand out to me) Even with half a dozen T7 tanks and one T8 I still have a lot of tanks in the T4-6 range that I keep just because I like them and they are fun to play. So grinding to the top doesn't mean more fun and playing lower tier games doesn't mean you are missing out on anything.

Pay-to-win, it can help in some areas but it is by no means necessary to spend gold to win. The most notable "pay-to-win" claim has to come from the T8 premium tanks, which are expensive and you see quite a few of them, but they really aren't that much better then any of the other T8 tanks, you just see a lot more of them because they make good credits. People tend to grind them to make credits for "gold" shells and to buy other tanks more quickly. After a while I gave them about $15-20 for some gold, mostly to expand my garage (I think I have about 21 garage slots, they go on sale fairly regularly) and to be able to switch my equipment to new tanks, I figured I was getting enough out of the game to justify giving them money and I don't see any need to give them more for a long time.

Considering most of the "secondary" guns on these tanks are more anti-personal/machine gun types, they would do virtually nothing against other tanks anyway. It is a non-issue for me and it works just fine for the game that they have made.

[Grif]

Sooo... I've been considering getting into WoT lately - it certainly looks interesting at first glance, but...
-It's online multiplayer only. I'm really more of an offline single-player person.
-It seems to feature an excessive amount of grinding; I hate that.
-There's a bit of a "pay to win" smell about it; I object to that on principle.

Plus, there are multi-gun tanks, but they can not actually use more than one gun.

Since we seem to have a few people here who know the game I would like to ask if there's any point trying WoT, or if I should just go looking for a traditional TankSim.

Well, it's more of an arcade sim than a serious attempt at actually trying to simulate historical tanks. There are many prototype tanks in this game which was never made in real-life, but put in the game to fill up the tech trees. If you're here for tank sims, this ain't the game for you.

The amount of grinding is indeed comparable to any other MMO out there. However, higher tier tanks doesn't mean you're stronger, since you'll put into matches in accordance to your tier. The mid tiers are actually the most fun part of the game IMO and can be reached with relatively short grinds.

As for the "pay to win" thing, yes it is there in form of gold shells. They are purchasable with silver, albeit at a steep cost.

[darksolitaire]

Sooo... I've been considering getting into WoT lately - it certainly looks interesting at first glance, but...
-It's online multiplayer only. I'm really more of an offline single-player person.
-It seems to feature an excessive amount of grinding; I hate that.
-There's a bit of a "pay to win" smell about it; I object to that on principle.

I was strictly playing single player games until I was half forced to try wot. Since then I have found playing online to be satisfying experience. WoT is only as grindy as you want. The fun for most people comes from trying out different tanks, finding those you enjoy and playing with them.

Paying money in WoT means mostly convenience. In a single battle, paying and non-paying player are equals. Outside of battle, paying customers can advance to new tanks quicker. Until last fall, there were an ammo type purchasable only with real money, but it was since then released to be purchasable for in-game currency.

Last thing, WoT isn't a sim. It's pretty arcade, with battles fought at the ranges of hundreds of meters, and matches lasting no longer then 15 minutes at most. It's action packed and quick, bet there's still much to learn and in skill plays a large role. If you come into WoT looking for a sim, you're going to be disappointed.

[AMX]

It is arena based shooter combat in tanks, not really trying to be a tank Sim in any real way.
If online multiplayer is not something you do then you may as well stop now and look for something else.

I'm not entirely opposed to online play - I'm just less than enthusiastic about it.

The grind is there if you let it, but otherwise not really. If it is important to you to have a tier 10 tank (the highest) then it is going to be a big grind to get there. However I've been playing for quite a while now (close to a year maybe?) and I just picked up my first tier 8 tank and most of my other tanks and equipment I picked up on sale which cuts down the money grind a lot. Also I have a lot of tanks so I can play a long time with different tanks before I run out of my double-exp games, which helps cut down the grinding feel of it.
So in short how much grinding you do it mostly related to how patient you are.

There are a lot of fun tanks in the T3-6 range (which all almost always make money, even on bad losses) and those can be acquired quickly. (there are quite a few of bad tanks in the that range too, the AMX 38/40 and M3 Lee stand out to me) Even with half a dozen T7 tanks and one T8 I still have a lot of tanks in the T4-6 range that I keep just because I like them and they are fun to play. So grinding to the top doesn't mean more fun and playing lower tier games doesn't mean you are missing out on anything.

Well, this is my impression so far:
-Neat, they have the Porsche Tiger! I love that silly thing!
-What do you mean, I have to research five other tanks first?
-And buy upgrades for all of them???

Pay-to-win, it can help in some areas but it is by no means necessary to spend gold to win. The most notable "pay-to-win" claim has to come from the T8 premium tanks, which are expensive and you see quite a few of them, but they really aren't that much better then any of the other T8 tanks, you just see a lot more of them because they make good credits. People tend to grind them to make credits for "gold" shells and to buy other tanks more quickly. After a while I gave them about $15-20 for some gold, mostly to expand my garage (I think I have about 21 garage slots, they go on sale fairly regularly) and to be able to switch my equipment to new tanks, I figured I was getting enough out of the game to justify giving them money and I don't see any need to give them more for a long time.

Hmm... sounds almost reasonable...

Considering most of the "secondary" guns on these tanks are more anti-personal/machine gun types, they would do virtually nothing against other tanks anyway. It is a non-issue for me and it works just fine for the game that they have made.

Yes... ish.
For example, on the B1bis, armor penetration of the 47mm and 75mm was pretty much identical.

I was thinking "backup" in case one gun gets shot off - althoug mostly, it just bugs me that, if I'm carting that thing around anyway, why can't I use it?

@ Grif & darksolitaire:
Some arcade-y-ness is good. Excessive detail can be tiresome.

[Erloas]

Well, this is my impression so far:
-Neat, they have the Porsche Tiger! I love that silly thing!
-What do you mean, I have to research five other tanks first?
-And buy upgrades for all of them???

That would be an issue if there is a specific tank you are looking to play, yes. But virtually every game has some gateway (level or credits) before you can get to some of the neatest stuff, so its not that big of a deal for me. I also really wanted a Tiger when I started. You don't have to upgrade all the tanks, there is generally only 1-2 items that have to be unlocked before the next tank, not all of them. But the first 3-4 of those 6 tanks can be worked through in a day or two without much effort.
But on top of that, for the most part tanks in a progression line are fairly similar in design, so if you don't enjoy how quite a few of the tanks that came before the Tiger P play then you probably aren't going to enjoy the Tiger P either. There are exceptions to this, but a line usually has a similar feel through it.

For example, on the B1bis, armor penetration of the 47mm and 75mm was pretty much identical.

I was thinking "backup" in case one gun gets shot off - althoug mostly, it just bugs me that, if I'm carting that thing around anyway, why can't I use it?

Well the game balances based on the weapon they do give you, not real ones that don't make it into the game. Though clearly not all tanks are that evenly matched. As for a backup, guns aren't all that often damaged and when they are they are repairable just like everything else, so you probably aren't without your gun for long anyway. The more annoying thing tends to be damage ammo racks and loaders for increased reload speed, which can often get a lot longer then a gun repair and would affect both guns anyway.

Being free-to-play, unless you are restricted with bandwidth its worth downloading and giving it a try and judging for yourself.

[Grif]

I find it amusing that your name takes off the French tanks.

[AMX]

I find it amusing that your name takes off the French tanks.

Oh... yes, partially.

Guess I should probably think of another nick when I try this - assuming it ever finishes downloading...

[Eldariel]

Oh... yes, partially.

Guess I should probably think of another nick when I try this - assuming it ever finishes downloading...

A word of warning: The first grind to Tier ~V is the worst part of the game. And yeah, they're doing a terrible job of making it friendly for new people; you'll be in games at a serious disadvantage with terrible crew, no equipment, and no play experience on top of it.

The game gets rolling once you get a Tier ~V tank that's good at making money (any of the heavies, meds or TDs work really; special mentions to BDR for a ridiculous gun, KV-1 for spaced armor, M4 for the best secondary values such as gun firing angles & good Howitzer, StuG III for ridiculous camouflage values and S-35 CA for the Fist of God gun). Then you can save money to buy new vehicles, equipment, better starting crews, etc. on sale and grind new vehicles much faster, and get to higher tiers too.

But the first grind to Tier V is a bit rough with some poor tanks you have to play through and poor equipment all-around; German TD line is probably the least painful followed by the Soviet Heavy line.

[Grif]

A word of warning: The first grind to Tier ~V is the worst part of the game. And yeah, they're doing a terrible job of making it friendly for new people; you'll be in games at a serious disadvantage with terrible crew, no equipment, and no play experience on top of it.

The game gets rolling once you get a Tier ~V tank that's good at making money (any of the heavies, meds or TDs work really; special mentions to BDR for a ridiculous gun, KV-1 for spaced armor, M4 for the best secondary values such as gun firing angles & good Howitzer, StuG III for ridiculous camouflage values and S-35 CA for the Fist of God gun). Then you can save money to buy new vehicles, equipment, better starting crews, etc. on sale and grind new vehicles much faster, and get to higher tiers too.

But the first grind to Tier V is a bit rough with some poor tanks you have to play through and poor equipment all-around; German TD line is probably the least painful followed by the Soviet Heavy line.

The Soviet Heavy line has the... T-28. Yeah. The "medium" tank that has the profile of a barn without any armour to speak of. But the KV-1 is worth all the pain.

I'd recommend the German TD line first. The Marder II is still good, and the Hetzer is just ungodly.

(Alternatively, try the US medium line. The Stuarts are okay for their tier, though the M5 gets a scout MM for being a tier 4 light.)

[Eldariel]

The Soviet Heavy line has the... T-28. Yeah. The "medium" tank that has the profile of a barn without any armour to speak of. But the KV-1 is worth all the pain.

I don't mind T-28; it still has amazing gun, it's fast and maneuverable. Sure, it's a fairly easy target with lots of weak spots but for Tier IV, it's one of the most dangerous enemies when playing higher tier (since it has a gun with actual penetration) and it has the one defense that doesn't improve with tiers; mobility.

Compared to the likes of M3 Lee, B1, AMX 40, A-20, Pz38na, PzIII, Valentine, M5A1 Stuart, Covenanter or Somua, it's a wonderful vehicle. It's no Matilda or SU-85B to be sure but on the Tier Of Fail, it's certainly on the winning side.

[GloatingSwine]

I don't mind T-28; it still has amazing gun, it's fast and maneuverable. Sure, it's a fairly easy target with lots of weak spots but for Tier IV, it's one of the most dangerous enemies when playing higher tier (since it has a gun with actual penetration) and it has the one defense that doesn't improve with tiers; mobility.

Compared to the likes of M3 Lee, B1, AMX 40, A-20, Pz38na, PzIII, Valentine, M5A1 Stuart, Covenanter or Somua, it's a wonderful vehicle. It's no Matilda or SU-85B to be sure but on the Tier Of Fail, it's certainly on the winning side.

I will hear no bad words about the M3 Lee. After 179 battles (I unlocked the M7 Priest with it) I had a 60% WR and 1.44 kills/battle, a Dumitru's Medal, two Pascucci's Medals, three Top Guns, and a max kills of 8.

Also, to have "weak spots" you need to have some armour first, which the T-28 doesn't have. It is deceptively speedy for its size though.

[Eldariel]

I will hear no bad words about the M3 Lee. After 179 battles (I unlocked the M7 Priest with it) I had a 60% WR and 1.44 kills/battle, a Dumitru's Medal, two Pascucci's Medals, three Top Guns, and a max kills of 8.

You are crazy. I mean, sure, it's got a decent gun for its tier but it's basically a TD lacking turret and all, and compared to Hetzer or SU-85B it's just undergunned, big, poorly camouflaged pile.

Also, to have "weak spots" you need to have some armour first, which the T-28 doesn't have. It is deceptively speedy for its size though.

Well, I meant it takes critical damage really easily (particularly the tracks, even after fixes to its damage model, blow up constantly).