Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

[Eldariel]

Victim of the Night is the go-to answer though I suppose your mana might prefer Ultimate Price.

[Mindfreak]

Ultimate Price would probably be better. Goes better with my mana. I'll keep Plummet in my sideboard though for Olivias.

[Lea Plath]

So I've decided to drop Selesnya Populate and go into Green/Black Zombies.

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-Creatures-
4 Diregraf Ghoul
4 Gravecrawler
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Dreg Mangler
4 Slitherhead
2 Trestle Troll
2 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord

-Instants-
2 Golgari Charm
4 Tragic Slip

-Sorceries-
4 Ghoulcaller's Chant
2 Appetite for Brains

-Enchantments-
4 Rancor

-Land-
4 Woodland Cemetary
4 Woodland Cemetary
6 Swamp
6 Forest

-Sideboard-
2 Golgari Charm
2 Appetite for Brains
4 Plummet
2 Trestle Troll
4 Cremate
1 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord

Any suggestions, anyone? I need a better way to take out Sublimes, Restorations, and other fliers...they really take out my deck.

Appetite for Brains should not be main boarded.
Need more Geralf's Messenger. They are too good not to play.
I dislike Jarad, simply cause I find capping the mana out at 3 makes life so much more easy.
Bloodthrone Vampire over Trestle Troll. A rancored bloodthrone and 2 zombies is basically B: Bloodthrone Vampire gets +2/+2 until the end of turn. Nice body too.
For aggro, drop the Slitherhead's for Rakdos Cackler. A B 2/2 isn't too shabby.

For sideboard, if you have trouble with flyers, run Vampire Nighthawk.

I'm playing GB zombies this week while I tweak my deck, so here is what I have got. Might help with ideas.

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Creature (27)
4x Blood Artist
4x Bloodthrone Vampire
4x Diregraf Ghoul
4x Dreg Mangler
4x Geralf's Messenger
4x Gravecrawler
3x Lotleth Troll
Sorcery (2)
2x Killing Wave
Enchantment (3)
3x Rancor
Land (21)
2x Cavern of Souls
4x Overgrown Tomb
11x Swamp
4x Woodland Cemetery
Instant (6)
1x Abrupt Decay
3x Tragic Slip
2x Ultimate Price
Planeswalker (1)
1x Liliana of the Veil
Sideboard (15)
1x Liliana of the Veil
2x Appetite for Brains
2x Knight of Infamy
2x Underworld Connections
2x Deathrite Shaman
3x Vampire Nighthawk
2x Deadly Allure
1x Golgari Charm

[Mindfreak]

This is the reason why I love Slitherhead in my deck:
Whenever I have a Lotleth out, I seem to get a Slitherhead in my hand on turn 3. I feed Slitherhead to the Troll, scavenge it for the Troll, Rancor it, and then I'm swinging for 6 on turn 3. Even more if I'm lucky to get 2 Slitherheads and a Ghoulcaller's chant in my hand.
Swinging for 10 turn 3 is serious business.

[Lea Plath]

This is the reason why I love Slitherhead in my deck:
Whenever I have a Lotleth out, I seem to get a Slitherhead in my hand on turn 3. I feed Slitherhead to the Troll, scavenge it for the Troll, Rancor it, and then I'm swinging for 6 on turn 3. Even more if I'm lucky to get 2 Slitherheads and a Ghoulcaller's chant in my hand.
Swinging for 10 turn 3 is serious business.

I had the slither heads in my deck too, but they just didn't work. Plus, putting all your eggs in one basket like that leaves you very vulnerable to Selesnya Charm.

Unless you are discard something like a gravecrawler, you are generally getting card disadvantage. Plus, a 1/1 swinging isn't so great, where as Cackler can swing as a 2/2 and helps you out aggro your opponent, which is really important in such a thragtusk rich meta atm.

And that relies on a very luck hand. Cacklers are at least more consistent as whenever they enter, they are gonna be a 2/2.

[Mindfreak]

Maybe so, but Slitherheads are zombies. I can use them to get back my dead Gravecrawlers for cheap.

And not many people play green-white at my FNM. I don't really have to worry about Selesnya Charm. I have to worry more about fliers. Hence, Trestle Troll. The people playing blue-white Supreme Verdict me? I drop Jarad, who know has a ton of counters on him, or I play Golgari Charm and regenerate them all.

Not to mention I don't have 4 Bloodthrones, or 4 Rakdos Cacklers. I've needed to trade a good amount of my good stuff to get the expensive things I needed ><

[Lea Plath]

Maybe so, but Slitherheads are zombies. I can use them to get back my dead Gravecrawlers for cheap.

And not many people play green-white at my FNM. I don't really have to worry about Selesnya Charm. I have to worry more about fliers. Hence, Trestle Troll. The people playing blue-white Supreme Verdict me? I drop Jarad, who know has a ton of counters on him, or I play Golgari Charm and regenerate them all.

Not to mention I don't have 4 Bloodthrones, or 4 Rakdos Cacklers. I've needed to trade a good amount of my good stuff to get the expensive things I needed ><

Well, get Geralf's. Strictly better zombies :P Then you can drop Trestle Troll, still have zombies and run Rakdos cackler.

And what about terminus, or angel of serenity? Terminus or Serenity or even Detention Sphere really mucks you up. Bloodthrone lets to sacrifice creatures so they go to grave to avoid a battlefield terminus or an angel of serenity.

Also. Why no Blood Artist?

[Mindfreak]

I only own 1 Blood Artist. I only have 2 Bloodthrone Vampires. I haven't been playing Magic for that long. I haven't bought much of any set other than Ravnica. I've certainly bought some packs of M13, Avacyn, Dark Acension, and Innistrad, but not as much as I've bought of Ravnica. I got most of my current cards from older sets from buying a Death's Encroch Deck for Avacyn Restored and a M13 Deckbuilder's kit.
I'd make a better deck, I just don't have the money or cards for it.

[Lea Plath]

OK. Well. Try this. http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/mindf...b-deck-modded/ as an idea then. With Blood Throne vampire, don't worry about flyers. Sac sumin away and tragic slip em. Blood Artist gives so much extra value from death it is obscene. Sac sumin away, tragic slip something. Basically you get BB. Target player loses 2 life. You gain 2 life. Target bloodthrone vampire gets +2/+2. Target creature gets -13/-13.

[Mindfreak]

I'll try it before FNM tomorrow. See if I like it.

[Eon]

So, I was experimenting with some new deck ideas and Green/White seemed like an appealing deck.

I've been playing around with it, and it appears to work well enough, but was wondering what you thought:

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Creatures:
4x Avacyn's Pilgrim
4x Champion of Lambholt
4x Champion of the Parish
3x Fencing Ace
2x Sigarda, Host of Herons
4x Silverblade Paladin
4x Wild Beastmaster
4x Wolfir Silverheart

Other Spells:
2x Ajani, Caller of the Pride
3x Collective Blessing
3x Oblivion Ring
4x Rancor

Land:
6x Forest
8x Plains
4x Sunpetal Grove
4x Temple Garden

I haven't worked much on a sideboard, and it's probably not overly competitive, but was still wondering if you had any useful feedback. Thank you, have a nice day.

[Togath]

That reminds me, I've been meaning to ask since last fnm, is Grove of the Guardian worth adding in a token deck? It's stronger then many non tokens, and can act as a land as well.

[Lea Plath]

That reminds me, I've been meaning to ask since last fnm, is Grove of the Guardian worth adding in a token deck? It's stronger then many non tokens, and can act as a land as well.

Link or post your list?

And Eon. Looks pretty good. If you wanted to improve it, you could but it looks pretty good. Gavony Township as a one off light be good. Buff your weaker creatures.

[Togath]

I don't actually have a set list for it yet, I more picked it up since it looked like an interesting card at the time.
I was thinking(partly from the deck building advice you gave me) maybe B/G/W for colours.
Maybe this as a base for it?;
Doomed traveler x4
Wayfaring temple x2
Vitu-Ghazi Guildmage x4
Centaur's Herald(not as sure about this one) x4
Selesnya Charm x4
Knightly Valor x2
Call of the Conclave x4
Lingering Souls x4
Druid's Deliverence x4
Growing Ranks(not sure about this one, but a free populate every turn seems useful) x2
Skirsdag High Priest x2
Intangible Virtue x4
Rancor x4
maybe Deviant Glee x4 as well

[LansXero]

So, I was experimenting with some new deck ideas and Green/White seemed like an appealing deck.

I've been playing around with it, and it appears to work well enough, but was wondering what you thought:

Spoiler

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Creatures:
4x Avacyn's Pilgrim
4x Champion of Lambholt
4x Champion of the Parish
3x Fencing Ace
2x Sigarda, Host of Herons
4x Silverblade Paladin
4x Wild Beastmaster
4x Wolfir Silverheart

Other Spells:
2x Ajani, Caller of the Pride
3x Collective Blessing
3x Oblivion Ring
4x Rancor

Land:
6x Forest
8x Plains
4x Sunpetal Grove
4x Temple Garden

I haven't worked much on a sideboard, and it's probably not overly competitive, but was still wondering if you had any useful feedback. Thank you, have a nice day.

Why dont we do:
-2 Champion of Lambholdt
-3 Collective Blessing
-3 Fencing Ace
-4 Wild Beastmaster

and add some better cards in the same slots, kinda:

+4 Mayor of Avabruck
+4 Elite Inquisitor
+1 Oblivion Ring
+1 Gavony Township
+2 Selesnya Charm

[Lea Plath]

I don't actually have a set list for it yet, I more picked it up since it looked like an interesting card at the time.
I was thinking(partly from the deck building advice you gave me) maybe B/G/W for colours.
Maybe this as a base for it?;
Doomed traveler x4
Wayfaring temple x2
Vitu-Ghazi Guildmage x4
Centaur's Herald(not as sure about this one) x4
Selesnya Charm x4
Knightly Valor x2
Call of the Conclave x4
Lingering Souls x4
Druid's Deliverence x4
Growing Ranks(not sure about this one, but a free populate every turn seems useful) x2
Skirsdag High Priest x2
Intangible Virtue x4
Rancor x4
maybe Deviant Glee x4 as well

OK. I find it best if you cap out your mana at 3 for tokens. That way you get Lingering Souls/Midnight Haunting, aswell as the cheaper good stuff. It also lets you run a slightly smaller mana base.

The problem with Grove is that it is 5 mana to activate and saccing a land (so basically 6 mana). A lot of commitment for a card that dies to most removal spells at the moment and doesn't even have some way of pushing damage through like trample or flying.

Growing Rank is 4 mana, and while the mana is highly flexible it doesn't do anything till turn 5 at the earlier and normally you will be populating 1/1 flyers. Not so great. Druid's I can actually see a place for in your sideboard. Bring it in versus aggro decks and whittle them down.

Temple isn't a card I see often in token lists. This is for 3 reasons. It needs a token, a good board state and a way to get damage through, like Rancor. I would personally prefer Midnight Haunting over it, but I do think it is a really fun card, so go for it!

Knightly Valor isn't a card I would run either outside of limited, simple cause not enough value for the cost. And I would cut one guild mage. Herald is OK if you can't find anything better.

Deviant Glee isn't that great either, as it needs red mana to get the important trample effect. Just run Rancor and be done with it :P

But what you have there is a pretty good basis of a deck. Post it up fully and I'll put it onto tappedout if you want, help you with the mana base and stuff.

[Eldariel]

Why dont we do:
-2 Champion of Lambholdt
-3 Collective Blessing
-3 Fencing Ace
-4 Wild Beastmaster

and add some better cards in the same slots, kinda:

+4 Mayor of Avabruck
+4 Elite Inquisitor
+1 Oblivion Ring
+1 Gavony Township
+2 Selesnya Charm

I'd be leery of cutting Fencing Ace in a deck running Rancor. It also goes nicely with Gavony Township, Mayor of Avabruck and cards like Sublime Archangel.

[tgva8889]

I like Fencing Ace more than I like Elite Inquisitor. Maybe just me, but the extra toughness and protection from Zombies (and other less-relevant creature types) doesn't seem more relevant than the Double Strike.

[Lea Plath]

I will agree. Fencing Ace is an amazing card. Have you seen the 20 damage fencing ace turn 3-4 deck?

[LansXero]

The vigilance couple with silverheart/silverblade soulbounding is what tipped the edge in favor of the inquisitor for myself. They can no longer trade and chumpblock to hit you back, now you get to smack them AND block them all day long. Sure, a rancored ace would get there faster, but depending on meta the protections on the inquisitor may be relevant.

[tgva8889]

Sure, but you have to be playing a matchup in which that's relevant. A lot of creature decks don't block and alpha very well, and you can always just attack with one of your two creatures if that's an issue.

I suppose having Silverblade Paladin makes Elite Inquisitor better, but I am not convinced that Elite Inquisitor is worth enough to be worth trading for the Fencing Aces at the moment.

[Eldariel]

As long as Rancor is in the format, Fencing Ace is going to be solid in GW and probably the strongest offensive 2-drop. Once Rancor rotates, things might change but currently the chance of playing turn 2 Fencing Ace and then swinging for 10 turn 3 with double Rancor is just kinda too good to pass up on. Fencing Ace with one Rancor is amazing, double Rancor makes him downright terror.

[Eon]

Why dont we do:
-2 Champion of Lambholdt
-3 Collective Blessing
-3 Fencing Ace
-4 Wild Beastmaster

and add some better cards in the same slots, kinda:

+4 Mayor of Avabruck
+4 Elite Inquisitor
+1 Oblivion Ring
+1 Gavony Township
+2 Selesnya Charm

I'll be sure to experiment with those changes a bit. I do believe I'll miss those Champions though,

I think I'm with the others and reluctant to drop Fencing Ace for Inquisitor. I tried playing with Inquisitor for awhile and it didn't seem like the preferable option.

Thanks, I've got some more testing to do.

[Togath]

OK. I find it best if you cap out your mana at 3 for tokens. That way you get Lingering Souls/Midnight Haunting, aswell as the cheaper good stuff. It also lets you run a slightly smaller mana base.

The problem with Grove is that it is 5 mana to activate and saccing a land (so basically 6 mana). A lot of commitment for a card that dies to most removal spells at the moment and doesn't even have some way of pushing damage through like trample or flying.

Growing Rank is 4 mana, and while the mana is highly flexible it doesn't do anything till turn 5 at the earlier and normally you will be populating 1/1 flyers. Not so great. Druid's I can actually see a place for in your sideboard. Bring it in versus aggro decks and whittle them down.

Temple isn't a card I see often in token lists. This is for 3 reasons. It needs a token, a good board state and a way to get damage through, like Rancor. I would personally prefer Midnight Haunting over it, but I do think it is a really fun card, so go for it!

Knightly Valor isn't a card I would run either outside of limited, simple cause not enough value for the cost. And I would cut one guild mage. Herald is OK if you can't find anything better.

Deviant Glee isn't that great either, as it needs red mana to get the important trample effect. Just run Rancor and be done with it :P

But what you have there is a pretty good basis of a deck. Post it up fully and I'll put it onto tappedout if you want, help you with the mana base and stuff.

Definitly useful advice. I'll probably wait a while to post a full deck, until I've gotten a better idea of what cards are useful for B/W tokens or B/G/W tokens.
edit: also, on the gaming shop I visit's schedule it has "standard" as the label for todays event. Is that another mini tournament thing, but using constructed decks raher then drafts?
also, would it be worth seeing if anyone at the gaming shop wants to trade cards?

[LansXero]

Trading around is always worth it. At least you get to know people.

Standard means Constructed (as in, bring your own deck) using only the sets from Innistrad onwards. Today should be an FNM, I think

[Lea Plath]

Definitly useful advice. I'll probably wait a while to post a full deck, until I've gotten a better idea of what cards are useful for B/W tokens or B/G/W tokens.
edit: also, on the gaming shop I visit's schedule it has "standard" as the label for todays event. Is that another mini tournament thing, but using constructed decks raher then drafts?
also, would it be worth seeing if anyone at the gaming shop wants to trade cards?

Standard is the constructed format of choice. It is one of the friday night magic formats (the other being modern). And trading is a tricky business. As a new player, people will try and scam you. If not outright, they will be quite happy to offer a pile of junk rares that equal the value of your card, because no one will want the rares.

I suggest that you work out exactly what you need and arm yourself with knowledge. If you have an android phone, Magic Familar is pretty good. And if you can get the internet. Use TCGplayer or Starcitygames.


On an unrelated note, or maybe related. I'm growing quickly bored with standard. Zombies use to be a fun aggro deck with some controlly elements (pinging from pods etc) but now, all I'm doing is making dudes and turning them sideways. Then I have to race Thragtusk. And yawn.

I've seen a couple of decks that look fun and interesting though to replace RB/GB/Jund zombies. I'm thinking of doing either a RUG soulbond deck (seems fun and infinate combo yay). Or maybe, I'll try brewing something. BRUG seems fun too.

Edit: I found a brew I made from the start of RTR. Junk Midrange. Gonna try that.

[Mindfreak]

So...I made top 8 with this deck:

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-Creatures-
2 Gravecrawler
4 Diregraf Ghoul
4 Dreg Mangler
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Slitherhead
3 Bloodthrone Vampire
2 Knight of Infamy
4 Geralft's Messenger
2 Vampire Nighthawk

-Instants-
4 Tragic Slip
2 Golgari Charm

-Sorceries-
1 Killing Wave

-Enchantments-*
4 Rancor

-Land-
3 Golgari Guildgate
5 Forest
8 Swamps
4 Woodland Cemetery

-Sideboard-
2 Golgari Charm
2 Naturalize
2 Appetite for Brains
2 Pithing Needle
2 Vampire Nighthawk
1 Killing Wave
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Murder

I played a game of two-headed giant afterwards. Blood Artist is a bunch of fun in that. A guy played a Angel of Serenity, I sacked Bloodthrone Vampire with itself and then Tragic Slipped the Angel, getting back my Blood Artist, my partner's Thundermaw Hellkite, and my Geralft Messenger.
It was fun ^_^

Also:
With Knight of Infamey out, I use him to block a Loxodon Smite with Rancor on it. Does trample damage really go over even though Knight of Infamey has Protection from White(damage from a white source cannot be dealt to this creature)? After all, no damage can be dealt...it was rules for me that trample still went over. Even though in play testing I was using a trample combination on my creature that was blocked by a creature with Protection from Black(my creature was Lotleth Troll). There would have been damage left over for trample, but the judge for our FNM ruled it then that no damage rolled over as no damage could have been dealt in the first place because my opponent's creature had Protection from Black.

[IthilanorStPete]

Also:
With Knight of Infamey out, I use him to block a Loxodon Smite with Rancor on it. Does trample damage really go over even though Knight of Infamey has Protection from White(damage from a white source cannot be dealt to this creature)? After all, no damage can be dealt...it was rules for me that trample still went over. Even though in play testing I was using a trample combination on my creature that was blocked by a creature with Protection from Black(my creature was Lotleth Troll). There would have been damage left over for trample, but the judge for our FNM ruled it then that no damage rolled over as no damage could have been dealt in the first place because my opponent's creature had Protection from Black.

Yes, trample damage "goes over". What happens is that damage is assigned as normal (in the case of Knight of Infamy blocking Rancor'd Loxodon Smiter, presumably 1 damage is assigned to the Knight, 5 to the defending player), then when the damage is resolved the damage to the Knight is prevented by protection.

[Mindfreak]

But the stupid thing is that our judge ruled it differently when I asked while playing a friendly game to clear up some rules. In the same day!
I would have done something completely different had I known the proper ruling.

[Mystic Muse]

We need a new thread title, since we almost need a new thread.

It'll be thread 15, so maybe a reference to Big Furry Monster, or Emrakul? (CMC 15 each) or Worldspine wurm (15 power)?

Or maybe some joke about how in RtR "They Changed it, Now it Sucks."