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Thread: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
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2012-07-31, 01:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
The free inspiration ability is already the weakest of the three, giving you one more use of inspiration is far, far weaker (you can't use the 2/3 cost inspirations, for instance). Compare with the healing ability.
They can do this every time they "may make" an attack of opportunity (which is not the same thing as hitting with, or even "refraining from", an attack of opportunity). Imagine a line of goblins around the world all drawing their swords split seconds after one another. The Pit Fighter has now 10' stepped his way across thousands of miles.
Incidentally, the way the major archetype power is worded, it doesn't actually use up an AoO to make a Full Attack. Possibly this should be something along the lines of: "Any time the Pit Fighter makes an attack of opportunity they may make a full attack rather than a single attack."
Maybe limit their 5' steps to one extra one per round, stop it from being Fancy Footworkable, or possibly tie it to actually taking the AoO. Since their AoO-step also means that nobody wielding a reach weapon that also can't be used in melee can make a full attack against them.
Level 4 rework: A Sentinel may take one additional Immediate action per turn, so long as that immediate action is used to Intercept a blow.
By RAW, a Free action cannot be performed outside of your turn except for speaking.
In fact, considering the logical extent of this ability, a Juggernaut who rolls a 20 (say 30, with 16 Str, Weapon Focus and 6 BAB), against a Tyrannosaurus that rolled a 2 (22), has just knocked a tyrannosaurus back eight feet and knocked them onto their back.
Cool? Hell yes. Little extreme though? What about a free bullrush attempt with a bonus pushback equal to half the difference if they succeed?
Rally the Troops: Death is arguably a negative status by RAW.
So go ahead and state "except for death", but be aware of how rules-lawyery you'd need to get to have that work.LGBTA+itP
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2012-07-31, 03:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
I wasn't suggesting it to be the best, merely that a cleaner alternative was slightly less potent. You and I disagree on the comparative potency of a highly conditional healing move (healing, reasonably, about 30 HP to a target who must have just been disabled or worse), compared to an always relevant bonus that the poet can always benefit from even in the final round of combat (fully healing all party members after a combat for no resources), or even simple things like always having a +2 Inspire Courage available after a long day (force multipliers can save lives just as assuredly), or a 30' AOE stun. It's a great Poet ability - it's decently powerful, and it's very versatile. I just want it to be as clearly worded as possible.
Actually, the closest RAW (or at least the SRD) comes to adressing it is by saying you can preform 1 standard, swift, and move actions per round, and no limit on the number of free actions. Per round, not per turn.
A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. You can perform one swift action per turn without affecting your ability to perform other actions. In that regard, a swift action is like a free action. However, you can perform only a single swift action per turn, regardless of what other actions you take. You can take a swift action any time you would normally be allowed to take a free action. Swift actions usually involve spellcasting or the activation of magic items; many characters (especially those who don't cast spells) never have an opportunity to take a swift action.
You rolled a 20 and the other guy rolled a 2. The other guy has to be freaking legendary to win that round. Think of all the skill things you can get by putting a little effort in and getting a 20.
They're in a 20' by 20' room. The Gladiator has now taken 16D6 damage. With no save.
I can go on, but I feel it to be self-evident that there's something wrong here.
By RAW, death isn't defined very well.
When a Zealot can instantly cure the cancerous, disease ridden, geas afflicted, god-blighted, quadriplegic king (who, for the sake of argument, is on fire) by staging a demonstration fight with their friend in front of him and popping off a swift action, I hope you're not in disagreement that this needs a little bit of limitation on exactly what entails "a negative status effect".
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2012-07-31, 04:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
Sorry, for some reason I said the healing, I meant the free attacks move. But I do think that the ability should be the same power level as the Engineer's Improvisation ability.
Fair point on the swift action, didn't know that. Also fair point with the zealot. However, I am still not sure what's going on with the throwing. I'll be figuring that all out now.
EDIT: The damage does seem high. Perhaps it should be knocked down to 1d6/10 feet or offer a fort save for half. But it's essentially an opposed attack roll. And those should be close to what a level appropriate foe would be using. And I can't think of a way to get a +20 on the opposed roll, since true strike won't (and shouldn't) work. Actually, it's arguable, but I'd say no.Last edited by Eldest; 2012-07-31 at 05:02 PM.
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2012-07-31, 05:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
Last edited by Gnorman; 2012-07-31 at 05:45 PM.
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2012-07-31, 05:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-07-31, 05:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
Provided that that first bit wasn't sarcastic, it means I am going to spell out explicitly exactly what negative statuses the zealot can remove.
Giants: Just the ogre, I think. I am considering removing that, because unlimited ogre minions (even with severely reduced hit points) is a bit much.
As for the scaling, I could see the Greater archetype power giving their henchmen an additional level (to a total of 3). A cohort could be up to level 4, but using Leadership as a baseline is probably a bad idea.Last edited by Gnorman; 2012-07-31 at 05:51 PM.
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2012-07-31, 07:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
Eldest: Yeah, the free attacks one is pretty great, especially with the right team.
This reminds me though - I assume "Let Slip" an immediate action? It's inferred from "immediately", but not stated.
Concerning the Noble > Tyrant I took a closer look and seriously love the concept, but I'm concerned about:
First and simply: Minion numbers need to be capped by Tyrant level; even five Kobolds are epic.
Secondly...
The potential to summon five Centaurs with longbows. A whole party has infinite, expendable mounts... With longbows. Even at 1 HP uncatchable horse archers are a terrifying prospect, especially with 19 AC from my Major Archetype Charisma bonus.
Five Dopplegangers. I've now won the social game forever.
These Dopplegangers Change Shape to Small to occupy squares next to me at all times. They use "Aid Another" to grant me +10 to Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Intimidate, Listen, Sense Motive, and Spot. Nobles can take ten on a few of those right?
If needed, I switch for five Derros, for Aid Another for Hiding and Moving Silently, or a few Locathah to "Aid Another" (aka "carry") me whenever there's a risk I get my feet wet.
If there's a chance I need to get my hands dirty, five Sahuagins can Aid me in Handle Animal, Profession (hunter), Ride and Survival checks, or five Dwarves to help me with Appraise, Craft (blacksmithing), and Craft (stonemasonry) checks.
I have a free-floating +10 bonus to most skills (and a 50/50 chance for any skill that can be used untrained out of combat). I have five attacks at +5 to hit, or five Aid Anothers to give up to a +10 attack bonus I can mete out in +2s at a time.
And thanks to an infinite supply offodderminions, I even have "trapfinding", and Create Food is totally on my spell list.
Why would I ever want a henchman? I can't begin to express what a downgrade that would be from the ultimate cosmic power of being a Tyrant, just spam Halflings at problems until they go away.
So.... Yeah, there probably should be a real, tangible cost to calling up minions, HP and combat are by far the least devastating uses here.
On scaling Henchmen: What about something like Animal Companion scaling? I can totally see a retooled version of it fitting a hench.
'S late, so I'll respond to everything else later.
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2012-07-31, 08:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
5 Centaurs: You must be level 6 to pull these out. By that level, you can afford to buy some mounts and bows. Not seeing the issue.
5 Dopplegangers: You are surrounded by 5 lackies. At level 6, you can get a +10 if you dedicate yourself to social for a bit. And the class is supposed to rock at social. Not seeing the issue, beyond diplomacy (which is borked already).
5 Derros: level 6 again.
Locathahs: Level one, but congrats, you don't have to work at swiming!
Now, there are two factors you're forgetting: you need to speak their language to give them complex orders, and this from the SRD:
You can help another character achieve success on his or her skill check by making the same kind of skill check in a cooperative effort. If you roll a 10 or higher on your check, the character you are helping gets a +2 bonus to his or her check, as per the rule for favorable conditions. (You can’t take 10 on a skill check to aid another.) In many cases, a character’s help won’t be beneficial, or only a limited number of characters can help at once.LGBTA+itP
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2012-07-31, 08:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
Except minions in 4e are supposed to work that way. That's not a bug, it's a feature.
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2012-07-31, 08:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
I know that, and the same feature is meant for these minions. I think he even mentioned that he was basing the idea off of 4e's minions somewhat. But this is in response to Kholai stating that 19 AC centaurs would be really strong.
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2012-07-31, 11:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
I can see some valid points in this, and have responded accordingly:
Also, I took the idea about expanding Impel and ran with it. Here's the new version of it, now available at level 2:
Impel: By giving up his own actions for a round, the noble may allow his allies to take additional actions. At first, the noble may only offer his allies swift actions - by forgoing his own swift action, he may select one ally within 30'. That ally may take an additional swift action during its next turn. At 4th level, the noble may forgo his own move action to allow an ally within 30' to take an additional move action on its next turn. At 6th level, the noble may forgo his own standard action to allow an ally within 30' to take an additional standard action on its own turn.
One archetype will likely have the ability to allow his allies to take those actions immediately, rather than having to wait for their next turn.
Also, the noble's new 6th level ability:
Natural Born Leader: Once per encounter, the noble may make use of one of the following abilities:
Fly, You Fools: As a move action, all allies within 30' of the noble (excluding himself) have their base land speed doubled for one round, and may immediately move up to their newly-modified base speed.
Supreme Motivation: As a full-round action, the noble allows one ally within 30' (excluding himself) to immediately take a full round's worth of actions.
The Whites of Their Eyes: As an immediate action, the noble allows all allies within 30' (excluding himself) to make a single melee or ranged attack as an immediate action.Last edited by Gnorman; 2012-08-01 at 12:15 AM.
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2012-08-01, 03:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
Eldest:
Centaur: Note that even with 1 HP, if a creature does not have a ranged attack option and enough move to catch it, they cannot be killed. The aforementioned Tyrannosaurus is harmless - it simply cannot catch a Centaur, who also do not have a limited number of arrows. Whilst mounted (which, unlike regular mounts, can happen in any area of dungeon that he has enough space within), the Tyrant may move and take full round actions at the same time.
Doppleganger: Change Shape. Your lackeys look like anyone you could ever need. I cannot explain just how incredibly potent this is for how many different situations. Combat is not the only, or even the most important aspect of a game.
Forgetting Speak Language? No, an Elf can communicate with Centaurs and Dopplegangers, Dwarves, Sahuagins, Merfolk, and I'm pretty sure can spent 1 Skill Point to speak whatever language the Derro do. If intelligence bonus languages don't cover those already.
Relying on arbitrary DM fiat is not a solution:
-Of course your buddies can't swarm all over your enemy, distracting them for your easy convenience.
-Of course you can't have your five Dopplegangers who look like city officials help in your bluff roll that you're appointed by the city.
- Of course you can't have them use their detect thoughts ability on multiple targets to give you a perfect insight into how crowd pleasing your diplomatic efforts are.
- Of course those dwarves can't confer about how valuable something is, or be little worker slaves whilst you craft something.
- Of course five merpeople can't just carry you over the water whilst you take a nap.
I'm totally happy with the change halving the bonus and removing Doppleganger abuse.
How long do minion corpses stick around by the way? I assume they can't be raised as skeletons, turned into mobile fortresses of seppuku minions or otherwise stacked to provide a handy set of stairs over the castle walls?
Impel change looks neat, and very, very powerful. Impel Swift/Move/Standard: Target useful character can now take an additional turn on their own initiative.
This may need restricting to one use of Impel / Turn? Otherwise the only difference between this and the capstone at level 6 is whether they take that full round action now, or at their own initiative.
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2012-08-01, 04:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
Technically, I suppose minion corpses should poof away once killed, just for sanity's sake.
And I will include a restriction in Impel that "only one type of action may be forgone in any given round."
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2012-08-01, 07:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
Engineer: Perhaps they should have "Inventors are automatically proficient with all their inventions"? This would be a lot more concise than having multiple "ignores non-proficiency" clauses.
Does the Engineer require access to their 15 GP "portable MacGuyver Satchel" and their 5 GP "Invention Component Pouch", or can a naked Engineer in an empty room fashion a Piston Hammer, a Mecha Suit and a Muscle Builder from, presumably, their own body hair, then batter their way out of the room?
Cannoneer: Aimed shot should thematically possibly be restricted to firearms and/or crossbows. I assume that the reading automatically discounts the Blunderbuss since it mentions an attack roll.
Note that the literal reading of the "cannot move" could be argued to render the target helpless.
I keep complaining (and apologise if I'm being a pest about it), but this sort of "no-save-just-suck" ability is very hard to balance.
Level 1 - Legs: Target low-AC/high DR enemy cannot enter melee or move because they just took 1D6 fire damage. No save.
Level 3 - Arms: Target Gladiator just dropped their Weapon of Choice. No save.
Level 6 - Two Cannoneer can now kill any Dragon. Seriously. They can't move (including wings), so the quick-drawing Cannoneer with rapid reload can take their time with their touch-attack revolvers which ignore DR. A Wyrm's Touch AC is 7 or worse. With 20 Dex, Weapon Focus: Hand Crossbow. (a +2 one is probably reasonable for E6), you have +12 to hit. A -6 means you only miss on a 1.
And as a bonus, Dragon's manoeuvrability is Clumsy. If they stop moving? They crash.
Feel free to substitute any other character with a mediocre touch AC and huge standard AC (Sentinels?) for this.
What about Fortitude Save for half movement speed/Free Disarm Attempt + Fortitude save/Fortitude Save on this?
Innovator: Nonsensical is a bit of a woolly term. Perhaps this could be restricted solely to non-equipment, or only grenade-like weapons or something similar. A Synaptic Hypnotic Accelerator Fog fascinates a cloud of creatures within 20', gives them all a standard action to be fascinated with, then fatigues them for the rest of the combat. Is this nonsensical?
Sawbones: Heal Modifier is a term I've not come across before, but if this means what I think it means then a 12 Wisdom Sawbones is dealing the same average bonus damage per hit as a level 3 Rogue. If heal bonuses from Masterwork Items, competence bonuses, skill focus, and the like kick in however, hanging around a Poet means these guys get an extra +3 or so, which is basically a free level 5 Rogue's worth of Sneak Attack every attack.
Is it possibly worth capping it to Sawbones level, and maybe Light/One Handed weapons or something? Maybe "ranks" rather than "modifier"? Right now it's not game-breaking, but it is a little front-loaded and open ended.
Currently, a 16 Wisdom 1 Sawbones/5 Brawler (cross class the Heal, no Skill Focus/Self-Sufficient feats) punches three times at 3 BAB each with TWF'd Fist + Club (Because hey, Martial Artist armed Standard Action Flurry), deals +6 damage per hit that connects. Plus he compensates a little for his lost 1/encounter powers with four Inventions for utility.
Major Archetype: I'd suggest "This ability may only be used on a particular subject once every 24 hours."
If it may only function once, that means you can basically keep trying for five rounds.
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2012-08-01, 07:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
Last edited by Gnorman; 2012-08-01 at 04:33 PM.
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2012-08-01, 10:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
I don't agree with the sawbones nerf. Yea, they can get a large bonus, but it's to MELEE attacks, and the engineer is not really set up to be front line fighter - it has med BAB and a d8 HD, meaning it's no more a front line fighter than a rogue. If a player boosts their heal, they're putting most of their resources into it, they SHOULD get a better bonus. If you spend you feat on skill focus heal, you deserve +1.5 damage, and I'm still not sure the feat would be a good decision. Not to mention that the sawbones who were boosting their WIS probably weren't maxing than STR (or, if they boost both for the massive damage, they'll have lower DEX and CON, making staying on the front lines even harder)
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Go Tigers!
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2012-08-01, 11:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
Glad to be of help on such a great project.
The rationalization for the no-save-just-suck abilities is that they usually require a successful attack roll, but I see your point.
There's a vague list here for reference:
http://dnd.kermodebear.org/InvocationLists
Beshadowed Blast: Lesser, 4th, Blast essence; Living creature struck makes Fort or blinded for 1 round.
Lesser is, at least in this E6 system, a singular, capstone ability.
Whilst this may correctly indicate that the E6 Warlock is dramatically subpar at the moment, if you want Lesser to be something you only get as a capstone in E6, then this indicates that a decent touch/+save is pretty decent.
Meanwhile, if it's something you can do ~ 3 times a day, then the comparison should be with a level 3 spell.
A kung fu genius / mad scientist / medical doctor? Sounds like a great character to me. He specializes in pressure points. The bad kind.
Inventions:
Knock Out Gas: If this is a "toxic", rather than "enchantment" ability, should this be a Fortitude save and have no effect on non-living creatures?
Unstable Elixir: Untyped damage?
Corrosive Acid (and several others): Splash Weapons typically have a Direct Damage component and an indirect component, see Alchemist's Fire, for example.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/...alchemistsFire /
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/spe...owSplashWeapon
As such, you may wish to account for this with these types of invention.
Clockwork Decoy: Decay < typo. What size is the decoy? Stats? AC?
I'm thinking a construct version of the rat, which moves 20' in a random direction each turn, without being specifically commanded to do anything (it's a wind-up mouse).
Automated Laboratory: This brings up an interesting question. How heavy are inventions?
Foothold Trap: At level 3, you have basically created this: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/glyphOfWarding.htm. With a caster level of 10.
Maybe it should be 1D6 damage per Engineer level, and again, amend the immobilisation (if it's a bear trap, maybe they can open it, if it's a foot-spiker, maybe something based on Caltrops?).
Trapspringer: With this, a level 1 Engineer has subsumed the role of a level 10 Rogue.
Portable Locksmith: At level 3, the Engineer has a lesser "Knock" three times per day. He's sort of making a Rogue feel sad here.
The Engineer is a Trapfinder with Open Lock and Disable Device. Perhaps these should give competence bonuses to these abilities, rather than a 3x per day (more than usually is required) "disable whatever"?
Steam Powered Gyroscope: Might this be better named Gyrocopter? I could be wrong but I didn't think Gyroscope was a flying device.
Crackerjack Caltrops: Needs rewording; as written, they may be spread indefinitely until they affect five creatures.
Might I suggest these use the actual caltrops rules, but with perhaps a bonus to the attack roll? That would actually be a power up to compensate for having a limited number of them.
Flash Grenade: Possibly this should be done in a similar way to the Thunderstone, but with an additional DC to avoid blindness? Automatic blindness, even for a round, is the domain of a spell like Sunburst.
Homing Rocket: So it's basically Magic Missile, cast at caster level 7 without a Shield spell equivalent or the ability to select a target? Perhaps this should deal 1D6 damage + 1D6 for every two Inventor levels?
Pocket Bombard: This is another automatic no-save-just-suck, but it's also competing favourably with Orb of X, which are level 4 spells in terms of damage output and effect.
Shrapnel Mine: As written, an Inventor can lay a Shrapnel Mine and come back days later. Again, this is a glyph of warding with bonus abilities and a much higher average damage.
Time Bomb: Caster level 8 Fireball, with extra features.
Overall, I'm getting a very, very powerful vibe from the engineer. I'll probably have a closer look and see what a level 6 Engineer can feasibly pull off alongside another character.
Table's out of date on the Poet; level 6 should be Full of Sounds and Fury.
For the Noble, would an initiator Archetype "War Marshal", with the focus on White Raven (and any other Leadership-brand manoeuvres, I don't keep up on homebrew Bo9S styles to keep track) be an idea? It's definitely within their remit as the Boss-man.
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2012-08-01, 04:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
I should make a few ride based classes.
Hmmmm.
Sentinel Chargemonkey-Wrecking ball,
Hunter Wild Hunt, WE RIDE kinda thing,
Scoundrel trickrider with lots of cowboy themed stuff for when they are not riding.
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2012-08-01, 04:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
The comparison being made is to the rogue, not a front-liner. The rogue does an extra 1d6 damage at 1st level. The sawbones, assuming a not-very-optimized WIS of 12 and Skill Focus (heal), gets an extra 4 damage with each attack, more than a rogue's average with little investment (Skill Focus does for a sawbones what Craven does for a rogue, with no drawback). Add in a 50 gp "Masterwork Scalpel" and it's 5. It's not about it being generally too powerful, it's about being noticeably more powerful than its closest comparison.
However, I do agree with you that if a player invests heavily into this aspect of their character, they should see dividends. Instead of ranks, what if it was limited to a +2 bonus per class level? That's about the same pace as the average sneak attack level, and it still allows a sawbones to improve it with feats, items, et cetera. Getting a Heal modifier of 24 is difficult but not impossible in E6.
In addition to the changes described above, I've also altered the Cannoneer's archetype powers (adding saves, removing aiming penalties, restricting ranged touch attack to 1/encounter) and a few other inventions here and there (not much, just some slight changes to damage and duration to a few).Last edited by Gnorman; 2012-08-02 at 07:32 AM.
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2012-08-02, 05:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
if the scoundrel would take the cutthroat archetype and invest the first feat into learning shadow blade he instantly gets dexterity as bonus damage. so he could easiely do more damage then the sawbones.
the sawbones got a higher MAD if he goes melee and still wants decent dc's, while the scoundrel can be decent with only maxing out dexterity.
i think as long as the sawbones just gets one archtype power that improves melee it is balanced as it is and it gives cool character options. lowering it would simply make it to an ability usable at the first two levels useless thereafter.
the engineer got other problems to keep an eye on. but we should keep in mind that there are not really many ability improving feats as for other characters which is making him not really scale up in the epic area.Last edited by theDuskling; 2012-08-02 at 06:02 AM.
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2012-08-02, 03:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
Sawbones 1 / Scoundrel 5, 10 skill points cross-class. Your suggested combo just instantly got +5 damage to all melee attacks it makes, and some inventions for versatility.
Alternatively, as mentioned, Brawler 5/Sawbones 1 gets it too, and multiple attacks per round. Quite a few get access to Tiger Claw for free TWF multi-hitting, and yes, that ability is open to all of them. It's basically "give up 1 BAB for +5 damage permanently".
Heck, it's only two or three feats for any Sawbones to pick up the same advantage.
I suggest linking it to Archetype advancement:
Minor Archetype: 1/4 Modified Heal ranks. Maximum of +2 damage per Engineer level.
Moderate Archetype: 1/2 Modified Heal ranks.
Major Archetype: Maximum of +4 damage per Engineer level.
Keep in mind that my breaking point for balance is above the warlock. I aim for mid to high tier 3, while the warlock is considered tier 4. Being "more powerful than the warlock" is a good thing.
Fireball is not a very good spell. To me, saying that something is better than Fireball tends to be complimentary. Keep in mind that the engineer's inventions are a bit more powerful than spells because he has commensurately fewer of them, and he can only prepare any particular invention once.
As far as Fireball goes however, it's not a "good" spell because damage isn't a good use of a mage's time. In terms of damage it's absolutely dead on with multiple targets, 6D6 damage. Remember that's the same as a mage's hitdie, so you're potentially into instant kill damage against any E6 character who rolled poorly on their HP).
Incidentally, please note that at level 6 they can use this or any other level three invention five times.
Invention, Jury Rig, Improvisation x3. You've now done five level 3 "spells" in five turns. You still have five more level 3 inventions unused, they're just not the same as the one you just used five times in a row.
As a suggested guideline, perhaps level 3 inventions should compare approximately with level 2 spells, rather than level 3 spells.
With this as your benchmark, the Engineer should compare with the Poet, who gets eight spells per day.
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2012-08-02, 08:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
Last edited by Gnorman; 2012-08-02 at 08:54 PM.
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2012-08-02, 10:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
Which is a bloody awful trade for an E6 game. You'd never get your second attack per level.
As far as Fireball goes however, it's not a "good" spell because damage isn't a good use of a mage's time. In terms of damage it's absolutely dead on with multiple targets, 6D6 damage. Remember that's the same as a mage's hitdie, so you're potentially into instant kill damage against any E6 character who rolled poorly on their HP).LGBTA+itP
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2012-08-03, 03:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
enervation is pretty much overkill for e6. but fireball can be as well. with spell thesis, fire heritage (the one of the faerûn books) and energy substitution since spell thesis gets you one free level of metamagic you deal 10 w 6.
with enough sudden feats and the pyromancer archetype you can get enough damage to kill every e6 char withing 9 m/ 30 feet even if they succeed their saves.
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2012-08-03, 04:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
Initiators trade attacks into single, much better, attacks all the time, is this a downgrade?
Secondly: You're getting Trapfinding, a Sleep spell, a melee touch at-will (Does Static Trigger, as a melee attack, count for the damage bonus as well?), or a permanent light source, or an invisibility detector, an awesome compass o' glory, or a huge Jump bonus....
You're trading an attack at a -5 to hit (when you can easily get three anyway without it), for a lot more than free bonus damage.
I'm totally happy with the +2 damage limit, because that stops it from being *totally* awesome.
The engineer basically has a combination of permanent class features and/or healing/damaging abilities they can change day by day, even at level 1.
My intention for the engineer was to have a greater day-to-day variety, but be restricted in the kinds of effects they can produce. That's why most of their inventions are damage-dealers, with a few exceptions. One option for reducing the power of the engineer is to have their archetype dictate which disciplines they can use - a sawbones could use chemistry and medicine, but no others, for example.
A certain number of level 1 inventions, level 2, et cetera. Perhaps like so...
Yes, but the poet gets some pretty decent power from his songs. The engineer pretty much only has inventions.
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2012-08-03, 05:10 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
how bout a small inventions known list and the engineer may produce those items as real alchemistical / forged items for material or gold within a laboratory or whatever with craft checks.
of cause he would not be restricted to only use one or two of his flash bangs on a single day etc. there could be inventions allies can use and those a non engineer cannot use or does something really stupid on a critical failure or a normal failure. Like you envenom yourself rolling a one with poison without class ability. it could detonate a granade right in the own hand.Last edited by theDuskling; 2012-08-03 at 05:15 AM.
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2012-08-03, 09:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2009
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- Cascadia
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
When I first designed the inventions system, I based it on crafting, listing DCs, prices, time to craft, et cetera. It was quite unwieldy. I feel that going back to that system would be a bad choice. "Downtime" varies heavily from game to game, group to group, and I don't want a class to depend on it to function. Also, I don't like the idea of a class's features requiring gold to function - yes, some spells have expensive components, but they're comparatively rare. As difficult as it is to rationalize, I much prefer the nuclear-powered infinite backpack/laboratory of holding version. I'm okay with sacrificing verisimilitude for ease of play now and then.
Also, to help clean up the invention descriptions, I'm going to be organizing inventions into four basic types:
Armament: Permanent while prepared, must be worn or wielded and take up equipment slots on the body.
Grenade: Thrown splash weapons. 5' radius, range increment 10'.
Serum: Injections that must be applied as a melee touch attack, or, if beneficial, may be applied to oneself (or allies, if a sawbones) as a standard action with a range of touch that provokes attacks of opportunity.
Contraption: Everything else - essentially, inventions with a discrete activation and a finite duration, but generally do not require attack rolls.Last edited by Gnorman; 2012-08-03 at 09:45 AM.
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2012-08-03, 12:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
So yeah, gave it a go with the Brawler at level 6.
Overview:
Best of Wis or Int modifier to AC.
+2 Dodge Bonus to AC.
50' Base Speed.
Evasion
Unarmed strikes count as D10 damage magical items and may be enchanted.
May make unarmed full attacks as a standard action for an extra attack at full BAB.
Unarmed-only pounce.
+6/+6/+1 Attacks
+5/+5/+2 Saves
15-60 + Con HP
4 + Int Maxed skills.
Once per encounter, either:
Swift: Gain 50% concealment for a round and move up to 50'.
Stunning Fist/Maximum damage with a Strength-based DC.
Mystic Resonance: Spell Immunity for one spell + Int or Wis modifier x 6.
For this, Mystic Resonance is unarguably the power move, since with an Int of 16, even in a combat with no enemy Spell Casters he can basically use this ability to turn an ally's cantrip into a Maximised Cure Light Wounds.
MAD, but the player can pick their MADness. The best feature is probably Standard Action full attacks making for an incredibly mobile combatant.
Optimisation easily gives Snap Kick for a fourth free attack (and the best reason to nab that 6th point of BAB).
Superior Unarmed Strike, by RAW is a downgrade, but depending on DM interpretation could up your dice to a 2D6 or 2D8 (which is pushing it).
Since unarmed strikes are freely enchanted, it's ultimately a lot cheaper to get Flaming or something onto your actual hands, then pick up an Amulet of Mighty Fists for the + to hit.
Breathstealer:
Improved Grab - Presumably, though not specified, for Unarmed Attacks - against any size creature, though you can't grapple Gargantuan creatures anyway.
+4 Bonus Size bonus to grappling and may grapple Huge creatures. With Improved Grapple
Deals Unarmed Damage bludgeoning damage on successful Grapple checks, which will be made in abundance with three "initiation" attacks a round.
Since it's specifically equal to Unarmed Damage, this means any enchantments, like the aforementioned Flaming, carry over, and since it's E6, with Improved Grapple and Jotunbrud you can pretty much grapple anyone with your +12 grapple bonus, whilst considering your own size to be Huge, so they can't grapple you back.
Later down the line, with Wild Talent into Illithid Heritage feats, you can grow four face tentacles and extract brains through the power of your incredibly awesome grappling, presumably whilst constricting up to four different targets with your tentacles for 1D10 damage each. (Unrelated: Looks like a great feat chain for the sawbones, four attacks at 1D4+12 each)
... That actually sounds pretty awesome. Fun and very powerful archetype if you can abide the grapple rules.
Bruiser:
Deals 2D6 unarmed strike damage.
Unarmed strikes have optional Reach.
Ignores pretty much all metal based DR ever.
May an unarmed strike as ranged touch attacks with a range of 30' as a Standard Action.
Sort of needs to specify that they're attacking with the Battlefist with this Archetype, and that the Brawler is considered unarmed when they are using their battlefist (if only to avoid Monks-with-Gauntlets style arguments).
One of the weaker archetypes overall, the Battlefist basically has an earlier ability to enchant their unarmed strike equivalent, and it deals damage as a Greatsword, an average improvement of about 1 damage a round on average.
You can't power attack Ranged Touch attacks, and seeing as how you can charge a hundred feet and full attack, rarely would that be an optimal choice compared to just carrying a bow and shooting things from much further away or just charging the thing.
Flavourful and cool archetype, not that powerful.
Perhaps the Battlefist should count as a Two-Handed-Weapon?
Cenobite:
Lay on Hands based on Int/Wis
Base saves become +5/+5/+5
May teleport up to 50' every three rounds as a move action. But only where they can see.
Lay on Hands is... Well it's not bad I suppose. A little strange for a hermit to focus on healing others though.
Saves are always nice.
The ability to teleport up to your move every three rounds is.... Significantly worse than Flee the Scene, a Lesser Invocation that can be used every round, and most of the time you can just walk there.
Not that great to be honest. What do you see the Cenobite as in this archetype? Some kind of "meditate for perfect clarity" type cerebral monk? Perhaps they should be the ones picking up Stunning Fist, being considered a monk for determining how many times a day they can use it, and ending up at level 6 with Quivering Palm Lite?
Martial Artist:
Armed Pounce.
Improvised Weapon Proficiency (Largely redundant but cool)
Armed Flurry and Full Attacks as a Standard Action.
Intelligence or Wisdom to damage on Strikes.
Stance change on an Immediate Action.
Eleven Manoeuvres up to level 3.
Six Manoeuvres readied.
Three Stances.
Insult/Injury time: Though it takes two rounds and a standard action, Martial Artists may also teleport 50' at a time with Shadow Jaunt.
Checking briefly through the homebrew styles mentioned, they get a 5' indestructible Wall of Force that lasts for Concentration +1 rounds, may make ranged attacks with their unarmed strike up to 30' away, a stance that gives +1D6 damage to unarmed strikes (the Martial Artist picks up free power points if you know any Sleeping Goddess Manoeuvres for easy Psionic Focus, so no penalty from it, and just grab 1 rank in autohypnosis), a Stance that gives Reach at no disadvantage.
As a counter they can get Wis to AC. Again. Manifest a Mind Blade for the whole encounter (Call the Heart’s Blade, level 2 Sleeping Goddess, I'll let you see for yourselves), Wisdom to Initiative, and a three round single target "Silence" which can't be ignored by the target, and also works on initiators or anyone with class features or feats that aren't passive.
Those are some wacky homebrew styles, but ignoring those, considering all the Brawler's other goodies (Boosts work wonders with flurries), this may be overkill. Initiator classes may be too powerful to be archetypes, you're basically adding fourteen feats to a Brawler with this.
Ravager:
They deal 2D6 damage with their unarmed strikes. Just like the Bruiser, except they can make it slashing.
Whirling Frenzy thrice a day (for yet another Attack a round)
If two of his four attacks hit (since Rend isn't restricted to unarmed strikes, make it six for ITWF as well, who needs an attack bonus when you roll six times?), he gets a free Rend for 2D6 +1/2 strength mod, which also heals him.
* Should probably restrict Rend to once per full attack as an optional free action against any target who he's hit at least twice this round with unarmed attacks.
Since Versatile Unarmed Strike can make strikes deal slashing or piercing, this is a net downgrade on the Battlefist in terms of DR, but other than that, this guy's a superfreak.
+6/+6/+1
Frenzy
+4/+4/+4/-1
Snap Kick
+2/+2/+2/-3
ITWF
0/0/0/0/0/-5
With 18 Strength (you probably should), Weapon Focus and +2 magic fists of fisting, that's +7, enough to hit most non-tanks reliably enough, and not gently either.
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2012-08-03, 05:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2009
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- Australia
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
If you were to take away some of the engineers available inventions, it would heavily reduce their versatility. I would not go so far as to limit them to the two that they get a bonuses invention from. So far, when playing this guy, combat amounts to making the enemy make save vs suck effects a lot so your friends can do the real killing.
'Stralia: Now a campaign setting (D&D 3.5 E6)
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2012-08-06, 02:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2009
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- Cascadia
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Re: Gnorman's Complete E6 Compendium
That is exactly what I'd hoped for when designing them. A little direct damage, a little bit of status infliction, some cool steampunk equipment, a few weird gizmos, and a little what have you. Upon reflection, I'm not going to restrict engineers to certain disciplines, but I am going to restrict them on a level-by-level basis. This should prevent lower-level inventions from becoming obsolete, and also rein in some of the abuse potential of the higher level ones (Improvisation comes to mind). Whereas before a 6th-level engineer could bust out 5 3rd-level inventions in one combat and still have five left for the rest of the day, now he'll only be able to bust out three, and be left with one (plus the lower-levels). I'm also considering reducing the power of inventions in general, but making them usable more frequently (grenades, for example, I might open up to Int modifier times per day, rather than just a flat three [which does seem to be the magic number of engineers]).
Last edited by Gnorman; 2012-08-06 at 02:23 AM.