XCOM: One Does Not Simply "Shoot" a Cryssalid...

[Zevox]

Well, I've done the first two missions of a Classic game. No dead yet, though a few substantial wounds that'll take a while to heal.

Easy to see how this is going to be harder, though. After my first abduction mission I already have a country at 4 panic (China), and several at 3, where on normal I'd have two at 3 and a few others at 2. Only one satellite, the new one I ordered cost me 100 credits instead of the 70-some it starts at on normal, and the lack of the training room (whatever it was called) for my barracks is annoying. I don't even know how much that'll cost, since it isn't among those I'm allowed to build yet.

Looks like I got a couple of good locations for steam generators, though, one the second floor and one on the third. My last two games I had to get down to the fourth floor for my second one, which caused power to get a bit tight halfway through the game.

Zevox

[KillianHawkeye]

the lack of the training room (whatever it was called) for my barracks is annoying. I don't even know how much that'll cost, since it isn't among those I'm allowed to build yet.

I think the Officer Training School becomes available once one of your squad members reaches a certain rank. It's not cheap, though. It costs over 100 credits (maybe 150, I forget exactly).

As for panic levels, yeah. They're much harder to manage on Classic than on Normal.

[Impnemo]

The Ending Explained:

Spoiler

Show

The Ethereals failed to Ascend, and so lost the favor of whatever beings they worship. So they went around trying to find other races with the potential for Ascension and uplifting them to get their gods to love them again. But all they found was failure after failure. Their attack on Earth is intended to push humanity toward Ascension, evolution through conflict sort of thing. And maybe they eat people's brains, not sure.

By defeating all the other enemies humanity proves itself superior to the failures.

"Now that you have proven yourselves we shall show you the secrets... ow, wait, why are you shooting me in the face, ow, stop that, OW!"

Spoiler

Show

Nah, the Ethereal dont need the Volunteer. You do. They can off your VIP and find more. You just proved success was possible. Success is not humanity's ascension, but their own.

They begin with abductions "seemingly at random" per your research officer. They're getting a wide ranging pool of candidates and materials to try to "uplift" the human race as some other race had done to them. They wage a very-very-very minimal war at first, trying to disrupt infrastructure tainting water supplies etc (per in game mission). They gradually escalate to more damaging means to deter further opposition as it hinders their "good" deeds.

Inject some handwavium SCIENCE! for psionics. XCOM is made of the best/brightest so its sensible there is a higher likelihood for psionic potential than in the human race at large. Regardless of why/how, you beat them to their own goal. They're ecstatic. "Temple Ship" implies this has a religious connotation to the Ethereal, which would put this as fulfillment of prophecy/end times/rapture. The hole in the plot is the sudden urgency in assaulting that ship. They announce their intent to create such powers in humanity to the VIP in the gollum/gallop wahtever room, and have proven willinng to subjugate species they tweak. Its possible that having seen the VIP you may have aided their endeavour by letting them know how to succeed. Its possible the VIP may have seen the secret handshake to allow you to land. Its possible the Ethereal simply allowed you to come so they could collect the VIP as a research specimen. Its possible to create any number of justifications for immediate action. Just a shame that you have to.

You have to take the word of a fruitcake cthulu wanabe on the history of the Ethereal uplift and their creator's 'ascension'. Even granting that it is entirely true and without spin, it may not be love and adoration of their creators that drives them so much as love of themselves and desire to see themselves elevated to that next plane. That self indulgence fits better with their willingness to subjugate others so readily. You succeed in creating a human with powers that rival their own. You succeed where they failed. Now its their turn to ascend.

Rambling posts at 3 am are bad for my mental health. I might come clean this up after some sleep.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

I think the Officer Training School becomes available once one of your squad members reaches a certain rank. It's not cheap, though. It costs over 100 credits (maybe 150, I forget exactly).

As for panic levels, yeah. They're much harder to manage on Classic than on Normal.

Sergeant and 125 creds, I believe.

I'm convinced that the hardest part of Classic isn't so much the aliens as the permanent funding crisis that are the first couple of months.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Well, running on Linux, I simply can't get XCOM to work, not even with WINE.

However, I *DID* find a cute little gem called UFO:Alien Invasion which is basically a re-hash of the very first one. A rather entertaining little game, although getting a Terror mission JUST after my FIRST mission, when I haven't completed any research yet, is very much DO NOT WANT.

[BRC]

Well, running on Linux, I simply can't get XCOM to work, not even with WINE.

However, I *DID* find a cute little gem called UFO:Alien Invasion which is basically a re-hash of the very first one. A rather entertaining little game, although getting a Terror mission JUST after my FIRST mission, when I haven't completed any research yet, is very much DO NOT WANT.

I've played UFO AI, it's pretty fun, except that it's almost painfully incomplete, and can get rather unstable at parts.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I've played UFO AI, it's pretty fun, except that it's almost painfully incomplete, and can get rather unstable at parts.

It's still being worked on, so the version I am playing on may be more finished than the one you played. Yes, many features are not yet included. It's the old adage "Cheap, Quick, Functional... pick two". Since it's free, Cheap is picked, and I'd rather go for functional than quick.

It beat out Battle for Westnoth in the TBS category by Linux Game News, which is practically mandatory install by any Linux user who has a hankering for TBS, which is what first directed my attention to it. Quite an amazing feat for a game which still has such a huge TODO list. Imagine what it will be like when it is done...

[Reynard]

Just finished the campaign on Normal mode. I must say I ruined the final cutscene for myself... because the name of of the Volunteer was Flash.

And by some miracle, the song synced up perfectly with the stuff happening on screen.

He'll save every one of us. *Determined look.*

[Anarion]

Well, I've done the first two missions of a Classic game. No dead yet, though a few substantial wounds that'll take a while to heal.

Easy to see how this is going to be harder, though. After my first abduction mission I already have a country at 4 panic (China), and several at 3, where on normal I'd have two at 3 and a few others at 2. Only one satellite, the new one I ordered cost me 100 credits instead of the 70-some it starts at on normal, and the lack of the training room (whatever it was called) for my barracks is annoying. I don't even know how much that'll cost, since it isn't among those I'm allowed to build yet.

Looks like I got a couple of good locations for steam generators, though, one the second floor and one on the third. My last two games I had to get down to the fourth floor for my second one, which caused power to get a bit tight halfway through the game.

Zevox

Having done several classic runs now (most in failure, but I really have the first couple months down), here's my perspective on the first couple months, focused on satellite infrastructure, of course. You get one satellite the first month, and all the rest of the money goes to infrastructure for your second set. If you started in a country that grants an engineer, you can do 4 engineers on your first abduction and skip building a workshop because you'll get to 10 when the month ends. If you don't get an engineer you'll need to build a workshop (and if you do get extra money from a request or something, it should go to a workshop). Since the satellite uplink starts on the left, I always dedicate that area strictly to uplinks and generally put workshops on the inner right with power generators being wherever steam is or on the outsides as needed. Alien containment and Officer Training School should go on the far outsides so that you need to spend less money on excavation later to link up workshops and satellites. The only other things worth buying early are maybe a scope or nano-fiber vest and arc throwers the second your alien containment gets up (which should be as quickly as you can without sacrificing satellite infrastructure because if you capture a live alien when the research credit still matters it will push you way ahead).

Sergeant and 125 creds, I believe.

I'm convinced that the hardest part of Classic isn't so much the aliens as the permanent funding crisis that are the first couple of months.

The worst is when there's no steam except on the 4th level, the special counsel mission doesn't give you cash, and the second round of abductions offers a soldier instead of money. I actually think that particular combination might lead to an especially tough game, as you can miss out on having 3 satellites by the end of the second month and be unable to equip your squad, meaning you can lose two countries to panic quickly by failing the first terror mission and then lacking 3 satellites at the end of the second month to bring other countries back.

[Triaxx]

I suspect you played the 2.3.1 version of UFO AI. It was indeed terribly unstable. 2.4 is much better, and they're currently working on 2.5.

That said, having played both UFO and XCom, they feel very unique, which is kind of unexpected really. It's two different takes on the same general scenario. They both have good and bad bits. The early weapons in UFO aren't as good as the early XCom weapons. UFO has a less simplistic Air Combat method. On the other hand, the ground combat in XCom is far more fluid, and dynamic. UFO tends to be much slower paced do to the high TU costs for firing.

XCom is naturally more polished, and much more shiny. However, UFO is far less vulnerable to game breaking bugs. Plus it allows two more squad members.

[Zevox]

Alright, I've made some progress in my Classic run in between ME3 games. I'm into the second month now. I had a second satellite up before the end of the first, and will have at least two more up before the end of this one. I'm currently debating whether my next batch of money should go to getting a third satellite in production early enough to have a full five at month's end, or to an alien containment facility so I can begin capturing and move the plot along. Though what I really want to do is build an officer training school and get that squad size increase, but that's much more expensive than the other two, to the point where I could likely have both for less than it will cost me.

I haven't lost anyone yet, though that is due to one instance of reloading. Had a mission where a few lucky shots from aliens ended up killing three of my four troops, which were also three of my then five troops that actually had their first promotion and class. I was going to accept the first two, but then they got the third, who was/is also my highest-rank unit, and I decided that wasn't going to fly. I was half convinced my remaining trooper, a rookie, wouldn't live anyway, since he was up against an Outsider in a good position (high cover, no good way for the rookie to get into flanking, rookie had already used his grenade).

Speaking of, a difference I noticed and did not expect: Outsiders on Classic have 5 hp and an inherent defense boost, quite an upgrade from Normal where they have 3 hp and no defense boost. They now actually stand out instead of being equivalent to Sectoids but with a slightly better gun instead of the mind-link.

I'm also noticing that my weapons do less than max damage more often on Classic. Getting 2 damage hits on Sectoids from my assault rifles, or 3 damage hits on Floaters from a sniper rifle, is quite frustrating. Also, troops panic more easily - I'd never seen someone panic just from taking damage on Normal, but I've seen it several times already on Classic.

Edit: Oh, and I ran into yet another bug. Extremely minor one this time - one of my troops would always stay in her standing animation, not hunker down behind cover. I think she had the cover anyway, though I'm not certain - no aliens shot at her while she was suffering the bug. That itself is one reason I think she had it though, since if she didn't, you would think they'd have been blasting away at her.

Either way, it's genuinely amazing that this game has so many bugs that I seem to find a new one every time I turn it on. Even pre-patching Dragon Age 2 didn't have that many - though on the up side, most of XCOM's are not as bad as the ones DA2 had.

Zevox

[mistformsquirrl]

Finally finished my second playthrough >_> Beating the UberEthereal was hilarious this time - all I did was use my sniper to go Ghost Mode, fire a single shot, and *blam* 19 damage crit. (The Ethereal had been weakened by reaction fire, from the same sniper before, but it wasn't for a whole lot)

I also had my Heavy do the most damage I've ever seen - a 30 damage crit on a sectopod, one-shotting it. Was pretty nice >_>

I'm starting to consider if maybe giving everyone Ghost Armor might be worth it. Crits on demand is kind of a big deal after all; I need less HP if my troops can simply kill or evade enemies when needed. Will have to experiment with it on my next run through.

[Anarion]

I kind of like mixing up the armor. A support with ghost armor and increased move is amazing for scouting, and I think heavies with ghost armor are generally correct because of the 30 damage crits on sectopods you mentioned. I like titan on assaults so they can never be poisoned or damaged by fire and because with their special it gives them loads and loads of hp (their bonus depends on the hp bonus of their armor). Snipers are good with ghost, though I also think archangel is amazing there.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Point of order: Snipers already get Headshot for Crits On Demand. Ghost Armor wouldn't do much for them in this.

[Zevox]

Finally finished my second playthrough >_> Beating the UberEthereal was hilarious this time - all I did was use my sniper to go Ghost Mode, fire a single shot, and *blam* 19 damage crit. (The Ethereal had been weakened by reaction fire, from the same sniper before, but it wasn't for a whole lot)

I finished the Uber Ethereal the same way both times myself - double-tap squadsight sniper positioned outside the final room, two shots, one using headshot. Easy one-turn kill.

Re: Armor - All of the late-game armor is quite good, to be honest. I've taken to putting Ghost on my assaults (invis + run-and-gun + rapid fire + alloy canon = very dead things), archangel on my snipers (as we've discussed, squadsight with that is amazing), and either archangel or titan on my heavies and supports. And of course psi armor on a couple of psionics, just for that 100% mind-control chance against everything but Berserkers, Chryssalids, and Ethereals. I honestly think archangel armor gets underrated - flight is amazingly useful in the wacky terrain of large UFOs, and it's basically portable low cover and height bonus to aim. Ghost's invisibility and other effects are of course great, but in many instances I would rather have archangel armor's flexibility instead.

Zevox

[mistformsquirrl]

Point of order: Snipers already get Headshot for Crits On Demand. Ghost Armor wouldn't do much for them in this.

Headshot is only +30% crit chance; it's far from crit-on-demand.

[Impnemo]

Point of order: Snipers already get Headshot for Crits On Demand. Ghost Armor wouldn't do much for them in this.

Double Tap. Ghost armor, head shot. Boom.

[KillianHawkeye]

Speaking of, a difference I noticed and did not expect: Outsiders on Classic have 5 hp and an inherent defense boost, quite an upgrade from Normal where they have 3 hp and no defense boost. They now actually stand out instead of being equivalent to Sectoids but with a slightly better gun instead of the mind-link.

Yeah, I was really surprised at how much weaker they are on normal after I started my current game. I'd gotten used to them being badasses.

[Anarion]

I finished the Uber Ethereal the same way both times myself - double-tap squadsight sniper positioned outside the final room, two shots, one using headshot. Easy one-turn kill.

That's how I killed him too. My volunteer actually was the sniper and she got stuck outside the room but killed him anyway. Does anyone actually fight all the stuff in that room?

Re: Armor - All of the late-game armor is quite good, to be honest. I've taken to putting Ghost on my assaults (invis + run-and-gun + rapid fire + alloy canon = very dead things), archangel on my snipers (as we've discussed, squadsight with that is amazing), and either archangel or titan on my heavies and supports. And of course psi armor on a couple of psionics, just for that 100% mind-control chance against everything but Berserkers, Chryssalids, and Ethereals. I honestly think archangel armor gets underrated - flight is amazingly useful in the wacky terrain of large UFOs, and it's basically portable low cover and height bonus to aim. Ghost's invisibility and other effects are of course great, but in many instances I would rather have archangel armor's flexibility instead.

Zevox

Interesting take on it. I find that you don't need the crit bonus when using run and gun. The only things they don't kill anyway are ethereals or sectopods, and usually you end up sicking the whole team on those, so I usually prefer the ability for assaults to just have lots of life. Also, don't underestimate the immunity to poison and environmental fire. On some maps with narrow doors that can actually free you up a lot, which is good because poison comes with a penalty to aim in addition to the damage.

The low cover from flight armor is worse than the base +20 defense from ghost armor though, since they're the same but the ghost armor one stacks with regular low cover and makes you really hard to it in high cover. I agree that the height+squadsight thing is nice, and that having flight movement is good in some situations such as getting onto roofs or jumping platforms on UFOs.

I would say, arguably, that ghost armor is just the best overall though. +2 move, +20 defense, grappling hook, and 4 uses of cloak that provides either complete safety if you mess up your move or a guaranteed crit is just worth more than 4 additional hp or 2 hp and flight. Both of the others are better in some situations, but probably in general ghost is the best overall.

[Zevox]

Interesting take on it. I find that you don't need the crit bonus when using run and gun. The only things they don't kill anyway are ethereals or sectopods, and usually you end up sicking the whole team on those, so I usually prefer the ability for assaults to just have lots of life.

Ethereals and Sectopods are precisely what makes that combo so potent - get into a good position for rapid fire and you can basically take them out with one or two units in a single turn instead of using your entire team. Also, an auto-crit from an alloy canon allows you to one-shot anything smaller than them, in case you can't get into a position from which rapid fire is a good idea.

The low cover from flight armor is worse than the base +20 defense from ghost armor though, since they're the same but the ghost armor one stacks with regular low cover and makes you really hard to it in high cover.

Perhaps, but you wouldn't use flight just for the defense bonus unless there wasn't proper cover around - which can happen, whether because the area you need to get to is fairly open, because your move range falls just short of the cover you would want, or because you destroyed it with a grenade/rocket/blaster bomb.

You can also use it to establish flanking in ways that would otherwise be suicidal or impossible, and get the height bonus to aim to boot.

I would say, arguably, that ghost armor is just the best overall though. +2 move, +20 defense, grappling hook, and 4 uses of cloak that provides either complete safety if you mess up your move or a guaranteed crit is just worth more than 4 additional hp or 2 hp and flight. Both of the others are better in some situations, but probably in general ghost is the best overall.

Perhaps. Those bonuses all together certainly are a big deal, no doubt there, and I'd readily agree that they're usually better than the higher health of Titan Armor. I think Archangel Armor is a closer call though, since flight provides a variety of benefits all in one handy ability, which can be just as useful as or more useful than Ghost Armor's in a good many situations.

Zevox

[Trazoi]

I'm nearing the end of my second playthrough (Normal Ironman), and I'm leaning towards Skeleton/Ghost Armour on everyone because extra movement outweighs extra health. I'm still experimenting with Archangel Armor but I find I don't use flight that much.

Are laser weapons useful in this XCOM? In this playthrough I ignored them until pretty late (didn't have much else to research and wanted laser pistols) and I don't think it hurt much as you can research Light Plasma Rifles very early on.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I'm nearing the end of my second playthrough (Normal Ironman), and I'm leaning towards Skeleton/Ghost Armour on everyone because extra movement outweighs extra health. I'm still experimenting with Archangel Armor but I find I don't use flight that much.

Are laser weapons useful in this XCOM? In this playthrough I ignored them until pretty late (didn't have much else to research and wanted laser pistols) and I don't think it hurt much as you can research Light Plasma Rifles very early on.

Lasers can be picked up fairly early on. If you manage to get one or two before your first Terror Mission, they can be a lifesaver against those four-legged monstrosities the first time you see them.

[DaedalusMkV]

From my experience, lasers are pretty unnecessary on Normal. Because the aliens don't scale except when you advance the plot it's pretty easy to not need lasers at all until you've got access to plasma-tier guns. Certainly I never took a laser rifle out on a single mission in my Normal playthrough, since I already had easy access to Light Plasma, and only used the specialist Laser weapons for a little while before Plasma became available in mass quantities from captured aliens.

On Classic, though, Lasers are proving to be about as important as Carapace Armour. Unlike Normal, you can't expect an Assault Rifle burst to one-shot a Sectoid (and it has basically no chance of one-shotting a Floater or Thin Man), and combined with cover destruction the Laser's ability to do so without relying on lucky crits is absolutely invaluable Once Mutons start showing up, you either roll out the lasers or be prepared to expend a whole bunch of effort on each and every one of the tough bastards. Basically, even Floaters look pretty scary on Classic until you get lasers. I'd rush for them as fast as possible, personally, as long as it doesn't impact getting Carapace and the Arc Throwing running ASAP.

[Sean Mirrsen]

I just learned that I can (try to) mod the difficulty settings on the PC version. I like the increased combat challenge of Classic, but not the strategic logistical nightmare that comes with it. Let's see if mix-and-matching them provides a suitable middle ground.

[Anarion]

On Classic, though, Lasers are proving to be about as important as Carapace Armour. Unlike Normal, you can't expect an Assault Rifle burst to one-shot a Sectoid (and it has basically no chance of one-shotting a Floater or Thin Man), and combined with cover destruction the Laser's ability to do so without relying on lucky crits is absolutely invaluable Once Mutons start showing up, you either roll out the lasers or be prepared to expend a whole bunch of effort on each and every one of the tough bastards. Basically, even Floaters look pretty scary on Classic until you get lasers. I'd rush for them as fast as possible, personally, as long as it doesn't impact getting Carapace and the Arc Throwing running ASAP.

I agree with this. I try to get an alien containment and a couple arc throwers up early as well. If you get a sectoid and a floater captive, you get the beam weapons and armor research credits, and those really speed up your research and get you either the weapons or carapace armor much faster. If I catch one, I try to start that first, if I catch both I always do carapace armor first. If I get the research before I have either, always carapace first.


Edit: Another thought on the armor as well. One other thing to note is that the 8 life on flight armor is sort of a cutoff point. Non-crits on the regular plasma rifle usually do 7 damage, sometimes 8. That means if a unit in ghost armor gets shot once by a muton, it takes a wound penalty and is out for a few days. If a unit in flight armor or titan armor gets shot once it will not suffer a wound penalty and is considered uninjured at the end of the mission.

[mistformsquirrl]

I just learned that I can (try to) mod the difficulty settings on the PC version. I like the increased combat challenge of Classic, but not the strategic logistical nightmare that comes with it. Let's see if mix-and-matching them provides a suitable middle ground.

Oh? <o.O> Please explain, because that's the one thing that keeps me from giving Classic a go for my third run.

[Cikomyr]

Is there a laser version of the LMG? I ask because all of my squads have a shiny laser toy, with the exception of my Heavies, still stuck to chemically-propelled bits of steel.

[mistformsquirrl]

There is indeed a Heavy Laser. I believe, if I remember right, you get it from doing the Laser Cannon research.

[Cikomyr]

Thank you!

I love the German scientist, she is so believable in her attitude when she cuts open aliens to coldly talks about the.. Interrogation process.

But come on woman, why give me a snark remark about soldiers aggressively shooting down cyberdisks if I cannot even capture the damn thing?!?! You know I risked 2 soldiers lives to bring the disk's life to 3 and than practically meleed the HEAVY WEAPON PLATFORM?!

Dumb broad.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Oh? <o.O> Please explain, because that's the one thing that keeps me from giving Classic a go for my third run.

It's a slightly tricky matter, and might not be the wisest thing to do with a Steam version of the game. (what with how Steam is around modded game files and anti-cheating sometimes)

What you need is to acquire a free app known as Resource Hacker. For some reason, the config file that allows to tune the difficulty settings has been hardcoded into the executable itself, and providing a plain text replacement for it doesn't override it.

Make a copy of XComGame.exe, move it somewhere safe so you can easily undo the changes later.

Now, using Resource Hacker, open the original exe. You'll see a folder tree structure. Open the RCData folder, within that the 1020 folder. Item labelled "1033" is the config file you need.

Spoiler

Show

With the config open, use View->Find Text to locate the "Strategy Game Constants" line. The stuff below is what pertains to the difficulty settings of the strategic game, obviously. When four identical lines are listed in sequence, they set variables for the four difficulty levels, in increasing order. Do note, however, that originally the "Impossible" difficulty mode was the one named "Classic". So when you see four strings listing variables for Easy, Normal, Hard, and Classic difficulties, they actually still mean Easy, Normal, Classic, and Impossible difficulties. You can just copy the values from Normal into the two harder difficulties, and you'll be able to experience harder combat without the extra logistics of harder Geoscape. Theoretically, again. I'm giving it a go right now, so we'll see how that goes.