Borderlands 2

[Triscuitable]

It's still viable all the way through if you're playing on a team and have the skill to reliably crit. I use cunning when I'm playing solo, but I generally switch over to my sniper build when I'm playing with my friends. Get a Jacobs gun and all the points in one shot one kill...You aren't 1 shotting everything like you do in playthrough 1, but the damage is respectable.

If you look at the other trees, Sniper has no skills that truly benefit automatic, elemental, or slag weapons. It's primarily focused on generic, passive buffs (which, granted, are very helpful as a little "I'll put a point or ten here" tree). After that, you're stuck with using stuff like B0re and Critical Ascensi0n.

Cunning and Bloodshed, however, complement each other incredibly well. The final skill in Cunning is a very handy, spammy skill that is unbelievably handy versus tankier foes in UVHM (read: virtually everyone). Plus, melee damage scales to your level, so it's always a reliable choice, even when you're using a level 15 Law against a level 61 Bandit.

2: While still in Decepti0n, aim the Jakobs Sniper at the head/critical area. This almost a one shot, especially if it is the first bullet. I've done over 2 million damage with this, and I'm using a green sniper rifle that has about 65500 damage. I have since found a purple Jakobs rifle that deals a little over 90000. Though I'm still thinking of getting myself a Trespasser.

Spoiler alert: it's not that great. You'll have better luck packing a shock Plasma Caster and a high-powered sniper. It's also godawful for co-op, as unless everyone's using it, they'll either be wailing on his shields while you chip at his health with a very weak sniper, or their shields will be down already, defeating the point of the gun.

[Anteros]

If you look at the other trees, Sniper has no skills that truly benefit automatic, elemental, or slag weapons. It's primarily focused on generic, passive buffs (which, granted, are very helpful as a little "I'll put a point or ten here" tree). After that, you're stuck with using stuff like B0re and Critical Ascensi0n.

Cunning and Bloodshed, however, complement each other incredibly well. The final skill in Cunning is a very handy, spammy skill that is unbelievably handy versus tankier foes in UVHM (read: virtually everyone). Plus, melee damage scales to your level, so it's always a reliable choice, even when you're using a level 15 Law against a level 61 Bandit.

If you're sniping you shouldn't be using automatic, elemental, or slag weapons anyway. Also, the majority of the tree gives you flat damage increases...which are useful no matter what type of gun you're using.

Bore is amazing by the way. In general the sniper tree is amazing...but the capstone ability is so poor that you're better served going down the cunning tree for most of your points even as a sniper. Plus, in my opinion it synergizes better than the bloodshed tree because you don't have to wade through so many pointless melee talents.

[Arcane_Snowman]

3000K as in 3,000,000? Dang....

Yep, currently sitting around 4000k+ after my acquisition of Love Thumper. It's allows me to go through UVHM at a pretty decent pace, even if it's pretty binary existence: either the murder-train is a rollin' or I'm dead. Very little in between.

[Triscuitable]

If you're sniping you shouldn't be using automatic, elemental, or slag weapons anyway. Also, the majority of the tree gives you flat damage increases...which are useful no matter what type of gun you're using.

Yes, you should. In TVHM and UVHM, Slag makes combat go far more smoothly, and automatic weapons tend to be the ones with the most viable of abilities. Plus, you're basically saying you restrict yourself to the weapon type that has the second-lowest maximum ammo pool in the game. That's not smart at all.

Besides, the most viable sniper rifles are Jakobs and Maliwan, as Dahl snipers burn through your ammo quickly and have wicked recoil, Hyperion snipers waste a few bullets before becoming pin-point accurate (small ammo pool + wasted shots = no ammo very quickly), and Vladof sniper rifles are basically high-powered machine guns. They're hardly snipers, and their ROF is so high that it's nearly impossible not to waste a few shots while trying to control the damned things.

Bore is amazing by the way.

Not in the late levels of TVHM and UVHM.

In general the sniper tree is amazing...

Not in the late levels of TVHM and UVHM.

but the capstone ability is so poor that you're better served going down the cunning tree for most of your points even as a sniper. Plus, in my opinion it synergizes better than the bloodshed tree because you don't have to wade through so many pointless melee talents.

Those "pointless melee talents" serve to boost your melee damage to insane levels. Sure, backstabbing is silly and worthless, but extra damage when your enemy is at low health, at upwards of 2200% more melee damage (when used in conjunction with the Law, without Decepti0n) With Decepti0n, your melee damage to an enemy can reach well into the tens of thousands.

Oh, and F0ll0wthr0ugh increases your movement speed, gun damage, and melee damage every time you make a kill. Bloodshed's capstone skill (Many Must Fall) means you can do equip the Vladof Rapier, cloak, and drop a dozen enemies, dealing 1300% damage on each strike, with F0ll0wthrough giving you a nice boost up to 1560% damage after the first kill. Like The Wind also gives 15% more melee damage while moving, and Iron Hand gives an additional 15%.

So no, none of the skills in Bloodshed are pointless, as while they all focus in melee, they do so in such a way that every one of the exceptional skills of the tree synergizes perfectly. Throw in Cunning so you can deal with targets that are difficult to target, and you've got yourself a very capable character.

[mangosta71]

And don't forget execute. Having a 20 or 30 meter range for your melee attacks during deception is amazing. Just be careful you don't fly off a cliff while you're streaking through the air after a buzzard.

[Arcane_Snowman]

@Triscuitable: do you have a Melee Zer0 build you'd recommend? I've got one at level 51 and just gave up on UVHM cause I'm not getting anywhere. (which is why I ended up playing Krieg)

[Triscuitable]

@Triscuitable: do you have a Melee Zer0 build you'd recommend? I've got one at level 51 and just gave up on UVHM cause I'm not getting anywhere. (which is why I ended up playing Krieg)

Yeah, sure. This one should help you quite a bit. It's a good balance between gunplay and melee, but the focus here is definitely on melee. Execute lets you fly, so remember that when you need to take out a buzzard.

[Anteros]

Yes, you should. In TVHM and UVHM, Slag makes combat go far more smoothly, and automatic weapons tend to be the ones with the most viable of abilities. Plus, you're basically saying you restrict yourself to the weapon type that has the second-lowest maximum ammo pool in the game. That's not smart at all.

Besides, the most viable sniper rifles are Jakobs and Maliwan, as Dahl snipers burn through your ammo quickly and have wicked recoil, Hyperion snipers waste a few bullets before becoming pin-point accurate (small ammo pool + wasted shots = no ammo very quickly), and Vladof sniper rifles are basically high-powered machine guns. They're hardly snipers, and their ROF is so high that it's nearly impossible not to waste a few shots while trying to control the damned things.



Not in the late levels of TVHM and UVHM.



Not in the late levels of TVHM and UVHM.



Those "pointless melee talents" serve to boost your melee damage to insane levels. Sure, backstabbing is silly and worthless, but extra damage when your enemy is at low health, at upwards of 2200% more melee damage (when used in conjunction with the Law, without Decepti0n) With Decepti0n, your melee damage to an enemy can reach well into the tens of thousands.

Oh, and F0ll0wthr0ugh increases your movement speed, gun damage, and melee damage every time you make a kill. Bloodshed's capstone skill (Many Must Fall) means you can do equip the Vladof Rapier, cloak, and drop a dozen enemies, dealing 1300% damage on each strike, with F0ll0wthrough giving you a nice boost up to 1560% damage after the first kill. Like The Wind also gives 15% more melee damage while moving, and Iron Hand gives an additional 15%.

So no, none of the skills in Bloodshed are pointless, as while they all focus in melee, they do so in such a way that every one of the exceptional skills of the tree synergizes perfectly. Throw in Cunning so you can deal with targets that are difficult to target, and you've got yourself a very capable character.

I like how you just assume that I've not played the same levels of the game as you just because we disagree. Damage increases don't just go away because your enemy has more health. Also...it's possible to crit with other guns besides sniper rifles.

I've already said that I only snipe when I'm playing with other people. In this scenario they're applying the slag. Either that or I'm hitting a target with the kunais from deception to apply mark of death and slag before lining up the crit. I'm not saying sniping is optimal...but I don't think it's as bad as people make it out to be either.

As for bloodshed...it's a fine build if that's the type of character you want to play, but it isn't productive to tell someone to spec for melee if they're asking about sniping.

[Triscuitable]

I like how you just assume that I've not played the same levels of the game as you just because we disagree. Damage increases don't just go away because your enemy has more health. Also...it's possible to crit with other guns besides sniper rifles.

I never assumed you haven't. I'm just stating they aren't nearly as effective as the alternatives. Sniper's not a bad tree until you realize it is dependent entirely on sniper rifles, and nearly no other weapons are effective with a build involving it.

Also...it's possible to crit with other guns besides sniper rifles.

I have a couple hundred hours in BL2. I know. It's also possible to crit with melee attacks, which does even more damage at the cost of no ammo!

I've already said that I only snipe when I'm playing with other people. In this scenario they're applying the slag. Either that or I'm hitting a target with the kunais from deception to apply mark of death and slag before lining up the crit. I'm not saying sniping is optimal...but I don't think it's as bad as people make it out to be either.

It is, though. The tree is almost entirely reliant on a specific weapon type, and doesn't have any synergy with the other two trees, aside from the early skills. It's almost entirely worthless when you compare it to the kind of damage Zer0 can do with Cunning and Bloodshed.

As for bloodshed...it's a fine build if that's the type of character you want to play, but it isn't productive to tell someone to spec for melee if they're asking about sniping.

From a grammatical standpoint, it is literally productive.

[Geno9999]

Oh dang, looks like Gearbox ain't done with Borderlands 2 just yet.

Spoiler

Show

ALSO YAY T.K. BAHA GOING TO BE BACK!

[Chen]

So I just picked this back up again with the Steam summer sale. Picked up all the DLC and the level boost pack.

Running through UVHM now and it can get pretty rough. Using Maya and running with a Good Touch, CC, Lasceaux and Slagga, along with The Bee and either a Slayer of Terramorphous mod or a mode with 85% increased SMG damage. The Good Touch and Lasceaux are up to level 52 now, but the rest are level 50 weapons. I don't know what happened to my level 50 Bad Touch, but I don't seem to have it anymore. And I really seem to need a better corrosive weapon since armored foes are kicking my ass. Maybe a Shock SMG would be useful. Also I'm not sure how good The Bee is for regular leveling. Things die super fast with it, but things also die super quick if they're slagged so I'm not sure its necessary anymore and maybe getting a stronger shield would be worthwhile.

I'm also not familiar at all with any DLCs except Capt Scarlet one (which I had before). Not sure what the new "go to" guns and such are. Could use some direction in that matter if anyone has any advice.

[Actana]

In UVHM, the easiest good corrosive weapon you can get is the Hornet, which can be found on Knuckle Dragger. Just go to Claptrap's Place through a fast travel station, run through the area, kill Knuckle Dragger. If he doesn't drop the Hornet, go to the Southern Shelf and then go back. Quit the game and re-enter. You'll spawn very close to Knuckle Dragger, and you should be able to take him out fairly easily, and he'll eventually drop a Hornet based on your level, or maybe slightly higher.

The weapon scaling is extremely high on UVHM, and a level 55 Hornet has double the damage of a level 50 one.

Also, depending on your level, I might have a spare Hornet lying around. I have a level 50, 55, 59 and some other Hornets. I've... Done a fair amount of grind for it.

[Erloas]

So I didn't think to check until this morning, but I see the DLC is on sale (finally) with the summer sale.
Does the Psycho pack come with the Season Pass or not? The season pass comes with all of the expansions but none of the character packs, right? (I already have the mechnomancer from the preorder)

Only have another 3 hours to figure it out and pick up what I want to.

[Actana]

Neither of the class DLCs are included with the Season Pass. The UVHM DLC, I believe, does come with the Pass though. Not 100% sure of it though, but I own the season pass and got it for free.

[JediSoth]

So I didn't think to check until this morning, but I see the DLC is on sale (finally) with the summer sale.
Does the Psycho pack come with the Season Pass or not? The season pass comes with all of the expansions but none of the character packs, right? (I already have the mechnomancer from the preorder)

Only have another 3 hours to figure it out and pick up what I want to.

That is correct. The characters are separate DLC from the Season Pass. Only customers who pre-ordered the game got Gaige for free.

[mangosta71]

Season pass includes UVHM, Captain Scarlet, Torgue's crater, Hammerlock's hunt, and Tina's D&D session. Anything else has to be gotten separately.

[Logic]

Is it just me, or is the Avenger and Bee just a really good combination? Most of the enemies in UVHM are pitiful compared to those two.

[Chen]

Picked up a Hornet and it does work pretty well against loaders and such. Still need to find a good caustic SMG though (to work with my +85% SMG dmg mod). Badass Buzzards are absurdly difficult to kill it seems though. I'm still using my Bee shield (level 50) and its capacity is only 25k. That said I'm taking hits that instantly deplete my shield and leave me at half health or less health (~60k health total) so I'm not really sure any other shields at my current level are even worth it (capacities are around 50-60k max). It seems not getting hit and ensuring the things just die faster is a better tradeoff at the moment. Could also be that Maya is just very squishy.

I'm not sure what spec to go either. I definitely have ruin and converge, but I had maxed Wreck in one build and another gets Sub-sequence instead. The sub-sequence build is only 3 points in Sub-sequence at the moment so I suspect the wreck build is better for now. Not sure though even if I max sub-sequence if its worth it. The ball seems to take forever to fly to another target which wastes a good amount of Phaselock time.

[Geno9999]

I'm still using my Bee shield (level 50) and its capacity is only 25k. That said I'm taking hits that instantly deplete my shield and leave me at half health or less health (~60k health total) so I'm not really sure any other shields at my current level are even worth it (capacities are around 50-60k max). It seems not getting hit and ensuring the things just die faster is a better tradeoff at the moment. Could also be that Maya is just very squishy.

I stopped using the Bee at around lvl 55 or so. At that point for me, the damage buff didn't really compensate how fast I was dying so I picked up an Absorb shield. Though now I'm probably going to focus on getting a lvl 61 Bee.

[Psyren]

So after a looooooooong hiatus from this game I finally beat it. How did everyone handle it when Roland died anyway? I wasn't expecting that. And what's the deal with Jack's face?

Anyway, I downloaded Gibbed and it seems to work quite well on this, so I made a level 50 Maya and spent two of my golden keys to get her some decent gear. I think I'll do level 50s of each class just so I don't have to slog through Normal anymore I missed you PC gaming!

[Xefas]

How did everyone handle it when Roland died anyway?

I believe my exact words were "...Why was his shield down? "

[Forrestfire]

I believe my exact words were "...Why was his shield down? "

I assumed Jack has custom weapons with the best mods, given that he's the head of Hyperion and all. So he'd have the one that ignores shields.

(or at least, that was what my response was when my brother asked the exact same question)

[Geno9999]

I assumed Jack has custom weapons with the best mods, given that he's the head of Hyperion and all. So he'd have the one that ignores shields.

(or at least, that was what my response was when my brother asked the exact same question)

That or just have a gun that's ridiculously overpowered enough that it obliterated the shields anyway. Though the de-digitructing seems to suggest that it's a pistol...

[mangosta71]

His first shot hit, which means it's not a Hyperion weapon.

[Psyren]

It was kind of sad how lame the original VH became. One apparently had a shield made of hopes and dreams, the other got his action skill blown up, one became a token damsel and the last one... well, Brick's still awesome at least, though all Hyperion would really have to do is send in a stream of Badass fliers and he'd be near-powerless.

Did anyone figure out:
- Why Maya has no connection to Eridium when the other two Sirens we know about do?
- Why Hyperion didn't just turn off the New-U stations? It made sense in Bioshock but not here.

His first shot hit, which means it's not a Hyperion weapon.

Ha!

[BRC]

It was kind of sad how lame the original VH became. One apparently had a shield made of hopes and dreams, the other got his action skill blown up, one became a token damsel and the last one... well, Brick's still awesome at least, though all Hyperion would really have to do is send in a stream of Badass fliers and he'd be near-powerless.

Did anyone figure out:
- Why Maya has no connection to Eridium when the other two Sirens we know about do?
- Why Hyperion didn't just turn off the New-U stations? It made sense in Bioshock but not here.



Ha!

I wouldn't say any of them became "Lame", they all behaved within proper narrative context as Badasses, they just fell victim to Jack's Cutscene Power/narrative neccessity. One of the roles of the Badass NPC is to demonstrate that the Villain is an actual threat.

[Actana]

- Why Maya has no connection to Eridium when the other two Sirens we know about do?

I have a feeling it's because Maya hasn't been in contact with Eridium for that long. Lilith had been living on Pandora for quite a while, and Angel was pumped full of it on purpose. Maya probably would get some higher powers if she were longer in contact with the stuff.

- Why Hyperion didn't just turn off the New-U stations? It made sense in Bioshock but not here.

My own personal theory is that Angel, as an "AI" was the one handling the New-U stations. She wouldn't turn them off, possibly lying to Jack each time the Vault Hunters did respawn. She would resist turning them off even though Jack wanted her to, and eventually with her death, Jack was unable to modify the New-U programs anyway. As for Roland... I'll deal with that below. Alternatively, all the New-U stations are hacked. I mean, they're all over the place. It's not like someone wouldn't try.


Now, as for Roland, maybe he isn't really dead. Maybe Jack had reconfigured the New-U stations for all of the old Vault Hunters to the Hyperion Moonbase, and Roland respawned in some super high security prison cell, where he is constantly, void of any way of contacting his friends. Angel would have prevented Jack from modifying the new VHs' respawn points after Jack's plan was complete.
Since the Hyperion Moonbase is an obvious choice for the next DLC, putting Roland there would be a fairly sneaky way of retconning the New-U stations into making sense. Granted, it'd undermine the entire scene of Roland dying, but given the confused reaction to Roland's death, I'm not sure it'd be a bad thing.

[Triscuitable]

How did everyone handle it when Roland died anyway?

I was busy cursing Anthony Burch for his inconsistent writing. He's clever and talented, but he really handled that situation poorly. The stance on how New-U stations work is also in the middle of canon, as some quests openly acknowledge them while others pretend they don't exist.

[Forrestfire]

My other assumption was that the New-U stations were working automatically, and that Jack couldn't turn them off. There was probably a ton of legal red tape to deal with and he decided it'd be easier to just kill the Vault Hunters.

And maybe his pistol was special in some way? Or he had roland spawned in the moonbase or something as was suggested.

[NeoVid]

- Why Hyperion didn't just turn off the New-U stations? It made sense in Bioshock but not here.

The New-Us probably aren't canon.

Did you know that there are unused respawn quotes... voiced by Handsome Jack?