Final Fantasy

[Eldariel]

Kind sir, how indignant it is that you have neglected to mention the one reason why FFVI is your absolute favorite, and the reason why we are still fated to duel one of these days! I demand an apology, ipso facto!

Indignant? Sir, the choice on what I spoke and more importantly what I did not was made to honor our duel! I cannot let other people sully our dispute with their meddling! Of course, I can announce the facts at the heart of this should you so desire but it is between you and me. And the hundred other people who read that thread shall stand as our witnesses; we needn't more!

[The Succubus]

Of course, the only way to commence such a duel would be to swipe him across the face with a Genji Glove. That way you can hit both cheeks with one swipe.

[Mewtarthio]

I think Aeris' final break was like... god mode. Invincibility for the party or something like that. I got it once just to see it and then thought to myself "Well that's... a waste of m time."

Per the wiki, it fully restores the entire party's HP and MP, then makes everyone invinicible. Given its overpowered nature and the obscure requirements to unlock it, it's almost an Easter egg.

The thing about Final Fantasy is that it was meant to be the last game Square made. But it was a smashing success, and thus the title has come to mean "the final fantasy for this world". It's the last event that occurs on a global scale to threaten the population in that world.

The Crystal Chronicles, as well as 10 through 14 ditch this concept, sadly. I always thought it was a really cool idea, seeing as how epic it made the stories.

I can't speak for the games I haven't played, but the main villain of XIII wants to sacrifice all of humanity to summon God to remake the universe, while the main villain of XIII-2 wants to destroy time itself. Those sound pretty global to me.

[Sipex]

To add on to Mewtarthio's comment:

While FFXI was an MMORPG, it's overlying story essentially has you saving the world as well, just in a different sense, as it wouldn't be destroyed or ended, per say, but your race and it's allies would be hunted down and eradicated if you lost.

FFXII has you trying to stop what could end up to be the equivalent of WW3 for us (this is never cemented but implied by the fact that when you put two warring, heavily magic infused empires at each others throats, stuff is going to blow up), so while you're not saving the world again, you are saving the world (and your country) as you know it.

[Phexar]

I think it was after she first went esper form and you find her again. Iirc, she went all emo and weepy on us about what she was and all that stuff. Its been awhile since I played, so I dont recall if she tried suicide, but she was definitely depressed for a bit there.

Terra doesn't attempt suicide, but given certain choices another FFVI character certainly does.

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Celes attempts suicide if Cid dies, leaping off a cliff into the sea to kill herself. However, she survives and washes up on shore again, woken up by a seagull with an injured wing, tied up with Locke's bandanna. This gives her hope to live again, the thought that he's alive out there somewhere.

[Triaxx]

I thought the demons were a perfect addition to the story. For one they fit rather naturally into a world where you can dance someone to death, as easily as summon an otherworldly god and instantly kill them.

Plus it's a natural extension of a story about political intrigue, the general sense of which being power at any price.

[Traab]

Terra doesn't attempt suicide, but given certain choices another FFVI character certainly does.

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Celes attempts suicide if Cid dies, leaping off a cliff into the sea to kill herself. However, she survives and washes up on shore again, woken up by a seagull with an injured wing, tied up with Locke's bandanna. This gives her hope to live again, the thought that he's alive out there somewhere.

That was one section of the game I hated. Trying to heal/kill cid so the story would move on. Ugh, damn fish. If you went for healing it could take forever.

[Kobold-Bard]

That was one section of the game I hated. Trying to heal/kill cid so the story would move on. Ugh, damn fish. If you went for healing it could take forever.

Yeah, but fixing sick people is neither easy nor efficient, if you want your grandpa to survive you're going to have to put the work in.

[Traab]

Yeah, but fixing sick people is neither easy nor efficient, if you want your grandpa to survive you're going to have to put the work in.

If all I had to do was bring back fish, it would be fine. If every time I went to the shore I had a choice between good and bad fish, it would be fine. But a bad run of luck where you have to enter and leave a half dozen times before you get the good fish, can set you back another 10 minutes of play time. Its just a very annoying time sink.

[Phexar]

It's arguably better and gives more impact to just let him die, considering if he lives all we get is him going "I'm better now, here's a raft" and that's the end of his plot for the rest of the game even if you go back to visit him.

[Triscuitable]

Actually, the Nova Crystalis series each occur in seperate iterations of that universe.

So it's still a "Final" Fantasy. Only in a more timey whimey way.

True, but there's no denying 10 had a sequel, 11 is an MMO with numerous expansions, 12 had a DS spinoff (Revenant Wings), 13 had a sequel (that was even better), and 14 is another MMO.

Here's my opinions on the games in the series:

1. I can't play it anymore. It's a total slog.
2. Similar feelings towards 1. It's just aged too porly for me to have any interest.
3. Now we're getting somewhere. The first FF game that I bought the OST to.
4. I'll certainly play this on an annual basis.
5. I skipped this one. Apologies. It's damn hard to find a copy anymore, and I lack a DS.
6. If the messiah were a video game, this would be my savior.
7. Overhyped and overappreciated. Great plot twist in the middle (SOLDIER related), but the characters looked stupid, the music wasn't as good, and it was too magi-tech for me. I liked the steampunk of VI, but this was overdoing it.
8. My least favorite game in the series. It's a cakewalk, boring as hell, and worst of all, Twilight is better love story. I said it.
9. This game is only second to VI. A work of art with an awesome use of the graphical power of the PSX. Also goes back to VI's steampunk designs.
10. Second least-favorite. Blitzball is stupid. Tidus is annoying. It had a sequel where Yuna sang kareoke. That was also stupid.
11. I'll admit, I played quite a bit of this (on the Xbox 360, no less). While I no longer own an Xbox, I do think that this game is good. It just doesn't deserve the Final Fantasy name. It certainly shouldn't be a numbered entry.
12. I could care less about Vaan, but I think Basch was a fun character. It's got the most interesting battle system of the series to boot, so I'll say this one is good out of gameplay alone.
13. I don't hate it. I do hate Hope and Snow though, since it was whiny-Tidus-alike and Nolan North, which I believe I had a nightmare about in 2009.
14. Yuck.

[Ogremindes]

5. I skipped this one. Apologies. It's damn hard to find a copy anymore, and I lack a DS.

It's well worth seeking out, I rate it alongside 6. (I consider 5 the best mainline FF in terms of fun mechanics, but its story and characters aren't great. I think of 6 as the best overall).

[The Succubus]

Be sure to find a good version of V though. The emulated version I have on PSP (which is the same as the PSOne version I believe), has Faris talking like a pirate all the way through, which grinds me gears, matey. It be ruinin' the emotional impact of key story line scenes, ye swabby.

X_X

[Fan]

I actually think 6 is more hyped in Final Fantasy circles than 7 is.

It's just 7 is the more "mainstream" one as it's the one that most 90's kids played first as it was a combination of being available when all the perfect conditions were met. Cheap used cost, long game for the parents to keep their kids busy with, and a good story overall.

I, for instance, found 6 to be my fourth least favorite of the series, with 10 being the worst to me (AH HA HA HA HA HA.), and 13 feeling like a slog through the endless hallways of slightly different enemy designs, and finally mystic quest being.. mystic quest.

I liked 9 the most personally, the characters were moving, it had an improved upon battle system from 8, and the overall story was quite well designed.

Only issue lays in the fact that I'm NOT a fan of the art style. What. So. Ever.

I also liked 8, so sue me, but aside from the ending it was very much a good game. Take away the weird time travel and have it end when they beat the Sorceress in the Space Battle? Bam. You have a good game.

[DigoDragon]

It's arguably better and gives more impact to just let him die, considering if he lives all we get is him going "I'm better now, here's a raft" and that's the end of his plot for the rest of the game even if you go back to visit him.

I have to agree. If keeping Cid alive had some additional benefit like he helps fix/build/sell things that could be mildly useful, but he just sits there. Even when he could be taken to another city that has like... food and people and stuff, seems he was just dropped off the plotline.

Watching Celes give up all hope and throw herself off a cliff was like... one of the top heart-tugging moments of any Final Fantasy game I've played.

[Traab]

Be sure to find a good version of V though. The emulated version I have on PSP (which is the same as the PSOne version I believe), has Faris talking like a pirate all the way through, which grinds me gears, matey. It be ruinin' the emotional impact of key story line scenes, ye swabby.

X_X

I actually have I think, 5 and 6 in a single pack, Final Fantasy Anthologies. For the ps1. But I cant tell you for sure about the pirate talk, as I havent played 5 in god only knows how long. I just have never been a big fan of job classes. It just seems to add in an extra step of difficulty that is more "Haha, made you wipe! Now figure out my weakness so you can steamroll me!" There was one ff game, I cant remember which one, where the boss of an early on dungeon would just curb stomp the HELL out of you.... Unless you happened to have a black mage with the toad spell in your party. No real warning, no clue about what you needed, and almost no way to win without it.

The thing that got me was, I am just too used to not even wasting time with status effect spells in FF, especially not on bosses, because they are generally immune/highly resistant to them all. I would rather smack him with another 9999 damage than try to cast silence, toad, sleep, whatever. About the only ff game that doesnt involve me just beating the bosses to death is 9 when I have zidane stealing the ever loving hell out of the bosses, because all of them have at least one, often two nice items worth getting that you can only get that way.

[Eldariel]

I never liked FFV that much myself for a vast number of reasons. Spoilers, obviously:

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I want characters to have a distinct identity mechanically too and the job system makes that vanish entirely. Indeed, being able to turn anybody into anything was a fairly big turn-off for me in the game. Second, the protagonist is entirely devoid of a personality; "I'm just a guy riding a chocobo to nowhere" about sums it up. He has no reason to be anywhere, no personality beyond "Hi, guess I'm a hero so here, let me save the world 'cause I have nothing else to do." and...yeah. Well, okay, we eventually find out that OMGHISFATHERWASONEOFTHEORIGINALWARRIORSOFDAWN but even that doesn't really add much to his character beyond "heroism runs in family!"

Now Faris makes for a great character (would make any of my Top X lists for the series) and Galuf is kinda cool too after the weirdness, and there's something to Lenna and Cara and I like how the ending mutates depending on how you do in the final battle, but the lead character being a blank sheet and Lenna being fairly underdeveloped too just sucks. And then the story is definitely not among the top of the Final Fantasies in my books; Exdeath isn't really an engaging villain and in the end he's not who you face anyways (why did they have to make him a friggin' splinter? Somebody watched too much TMNT?). And the game is quite full of heroic stupidity and villainous stupidity and overall, it just doesn't really strike a chord for me.

The thing that got me was, I am just too used to not even wasting time with status effect spells in FF, especially not on bosses, because they are generally immune/highly resistant to them all. I would rather smack him with another 9999 damage than try to cast silence, toad, sleep, whatever. About the only ff game that doesnt involve me just beating the bosses to death is 9 when I have zidane stealing the ever loving hell out of the bosses, because all of them have at least one, often two nice items worth getting that you can only get that way.

8 was all about stalling and spamming draw (unless you were converting everything in which case you prolly had everything stacked already). I mostly just drew until I just couldn't draw any longer in every fight stacking up 99 of everything for junctioning.

[Kobold-Bard]

...

8 was all about stalling and spamming draw (unless you were converting everything in which case you prolly had everything stacked already). I mostly just drew until I just couldn't draw any longer in every fight stacking up 99 of everything for junctioning.

Draw was only for Draw Points and for collecting GF from bosses (and occassionally strategies like Drawing Demi from Diablos so he'll cure you). The refine abilities that the GF learned were for your magic hoarding needs, since the refineable items were generally not useful or anythig else except weapon upgrading.

Standing around endlessly Drawing from mooks wasn't what you were supposed to do, and I can see how doing it would make people hate 8.

[Sipex]

I loved FFX actually (in spite of the infamous laughing scene) and one of the main reasons for that was because many status effects were finally useful. While not so much on bosses (some status effects effected some bosses, yes) they were incredibly useful (and not too costly either) on various other enemies trudging around.

FFXIII did a great job with buffs and status conditions as well, to the point that they're integral to surviving. I'm not a huge fan of 13 but the battle system was solid.

[Eldariel]

Draw was only for Draw Points and for collecting GF from bosses (and occassionally strategies like Drawing Demi from Diablos so he'll cure you). The refine abilities that the GF learned were for your magic hoarding needs, since the refineable items were generally not useful or anythig else except weapon upgrading.

Standing around endlessly Drawing from mooks wasn't what you were supposed to do, and I can see how doing it would make people hate 8.

Aye, I've played through the game "properly" later. It's what I did the first time I played it though, since I didn't have any kinds of tables of what Refines into what so I couldn't figure out what I'd need to get to get what and which Refine abilities I should research (and I perceived the G-Force Refine researches as horribly expensive since I was busy trying to research Junctions).

Though that's just a grain in the hourglass of reasons I dislike FFVIII compared to the others. I didn't really agree with the whole GF/Junction system in its entirety. I just don't like the kind of resource management that's built around maintaining 99 of each spell, or the kind of resource management where spells are treated as items in the first place, nor the kind of system where levels are practically irrelevant and where character power is basically directly correlated to the GF and junctions you've assigned for them. Basically, I feel the whole Junction system makes the mechanics of the game less about the characters and more about the GFs and stacking "spell items". Of course, there's the whole story and the characters and all that which I likewise wasn't especially charmed by.

I loved FFX actually (in spite of the infamous laughing scene) and one of the main reasons for that was because many status effects were finally useful. While not so much on bosses (some status effects effected some bosses, yes) they were incredibly useful (and not too costly either) on various other enemies trudging around.

Heh. I had that experience in Final Fantasy IV. There was especially that memorable sequence where I had Tella in the party and he'd just learned all his magic (before the first Tower sequence); that one island castle was open for looting but the boxes had monsters in them.

The monsters were a bit tough for the team...except Tella had access to all magic including stuff like Mini, Silence & co. which enabled me to dispose of said monsters with relative ease in spite of them being much stronger than I was level-wise. Overall, I loved how the game broke the mold of "you only get stronger as the game progresses" (also of course how there was no guarantee on who'd die or survive of the frankly quite memorable characters).

Overall, many of the random mooks in the original release ("hardmode") were pretty tough but the characters came with a good enough variety of status effects and special abilities that you were kinda forced to use them (or level grind, which never struck my fancy) to get by.

[Triaxx]

It's only really, early that the drawing even makes it worth while, so you can boost stats for the early fights. Then once you have Card Refine, you can max stats just sitting and playing the insanely fascinating card game. I've only finished it once, to see the ending. Beyond that I just sort of get side-tracked by the 'Oooh, shiny!' factor of the card game.

The trouble with the plot and story is that instead of doing like 9, and telling an epic and engaging tale, then weaving a love story in, it's basically a romance novel with some justification of fighting in it. What's worse is that it's got three love stories that all end up being central to the plot. That's far more than is absolutely necessary. Pick one main set of characters, and then everything else should be a sub plot.

The idea behind junctioning was to make levels less important, and it succeeded admirably at it. Since by level 10 you can have 3000 HP, and nearly maxxed strength, levels are rather pointless.

[Eldariel]

The idea behind junctioning was to make levels less important, and it succeeded admirably at it. Since by level 10 you can have 3000 HP, and nearly maxxed strength, levels are rather pointless.

It more than makes levels "less important"; the game level-weaves. So the lower level, the more powerful relatively the junctioned stats are; the lower level, the easier the game is! Of course, you can't make it hard no matter how high you go. Difficulty slider was very much kept in minimum during the design of that game.

[Sipex]

Aye, I've played through the game "properly" later. It's what I did the first time I played it though, since I didn't have any kinds of tables of what Refines into what so I couldn't figure out what I'd need to get to get what and which Refine abilities I should research (and I perceived the G-Force Refine researches as horribly expensive since I was busy trying to research Junctions).

Though that's just a grain in the hourglass of reasons I dislike FFVIII compared to the others. I didn't really agree with the whole GF/Junction system in its entirety. I just don't like the kind of resource management that's built around maintaining 99 of each spell, or the kind of resource management where spells are treated as items in the first place, nor the kind of system where levels are practically irrelevant and where character power is basically directly correlated to the GF and junctions you've assigned for them. Basically, I feel the whole Junction system makes the mechanics of the game less about the characters and more about the GFs and stacking "spell items". Of course, there's the whole story and the characters and all that which I likewise wasn't especially charmed by.



Heh. I had that experience in Final Fantasy IV. There was especially that memorable sequence where I had Tella in the party and he'd just learned all his magic (before the first Tower sequence); that one island castle was open for looting but the boxes had monsters in them.

The monsters were a bit tough for the team...except Tella had access to all magic including stuff like Mini, Silence & co. which enabled me to dispose of said monsters with relative ease in spite of them being much stronger than I was level-wise. Overall, I loved how the game broke the mold of "you only get stronger as the game progresses" (also of course how there was no guarantee on who'd die or survive of the frankly quite memorable characters).

Overall, many of the random mooks in the original release ("hardmode") were pretty tough but the characters came with a good enough variety of status effects and special abilities that you were kinda forced to use them (or level grind, which never struck my fancy) to get by.

Oh! I completely forgot about FFIV, specifically FFIV:DS where status effect spells can be the difference between getting wiped by a random encounter and breezing through it.

[Scowling Dragon]

Probably 6. I liked its combat and its plot was better.

Even 7 has an ugly stupid asthetic for me, is ULTRA overhyped, and the plot is just laughable.

But all in all: None are actualy RPGs. You don't PLAY a ROLE. You watch somebody else play their character and the combat is about as disconnected as it gets.

Like: If I can summon GODS and meteors then why can't I open a BLOODY WOODEN DOOR!

[Tengu_temp]

But all in all: None are actualy RPGs. You don't PLAY a ROLE. You watch somebody else play their character and the combat is about as disconnected as it gets.

This again? They are jRPGs, which is a subcategory of RPG. Deal with it.

[Sipex]

I'm really enjoying the conversations about Final Fantasy in this thread.

It would really suck if this blew up into another flame war over the definition of RPG.

[Eldariel]

Oh! I completely forgot about FFIV, specifically FFIV:DS where status effect spells can be the difference between getting wiped by a random encounter and breezing through it.

I understand FFIV:DS and the original Japanese (that I played) have the same combat stats more or less (with DS having few fixes and such) so I'm guessing they're directly comparable. In that case, yeah, I have the same experience; even the random encounters can be hard and good use of all the fun stuff really helps.

Also, one of the beautiful things in the game is how Cecil gets his "ultimate" weapon about 1/10th into the game before he becomes a Paladin and how that weapon is actually every bit as kickass as it should be (aside from the Undead trip that follows), and how he actually starts at level 1 when he reclasses. I really just love how the system handles changes without trying to maintain party at the same exact level or keeping the characters on the same power level (or indeed, even the same; it has a fairly significant number of massive changes in character power).

Things like that are what I've really missed in the subsequent Final Fantasies, and indeed also how while every character has a class, there's more than one good way to equip each and every one.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Things like that are what I've really missed in the subsequent Final Fantasies, and indeed also how while every character has a class, there's more than one good way to equip each and every one.

I actually like this. I personally dislike 'ultimate' weapons, simply because I like doing different things. For example:

Moogle, Destroyer of Worlds, as a Dragoon build, with Dragon Horn, doing 4x quad-9's every round. Sure, it's silly, but it is entirely possible, and mechanically viable.

This is to be seen as distinctly different from 'challenge' modes where you deliberately equip poor gear (i.e. no gear run-through, only use starting equipment), because the characters are still designed to be powerful, just not in the ways the devs originally intended them to be.

I guess this is one of the charms of FF VI, any character (except the dang yeti) can be a powerhouse. In fact, any character can be a powerhouse in any way. To some degree, every character NEEDS to be at least mechanically effective for the final dungeon.

[Eldariel]

I actually like this. I personally dislike 'ultimate' weapons, simply because I like doing different things. For example:

Moogle, Destroyer of Worlds, as a Dragoon build, with Dragon Horn, doing 4x quad-9's every round. Sure, it's silly, but it is entirely possible, and mechanically viable.

Maybe I was unclear; I'm saying I like it too. That is, I prefer for a multitude of itemization options to exist, which is very true for large parts of IV. For instance, Archer Cecil. Hell, I'm kinda sad how great a decline archery in general has seen since IV.

[ZeroNumerous]

But all in all: None are actualy RPGs. You don't PLAY a ROLE. You watch somebody else play their character and the combat is about as disconnected as it gets.

I've never really understood this complaint. Whether you're playing a JRPG or WRPG you're still giving commands to a character. You are taking the role of that character's internal voice that decides his/her actions. And I'm fairly certain they're all games, even if some of them can be programmed to act like movies(lookin' at you FF12).