Relationship Woes and Advice 23: Answer Unclear, Try Again

[Form]

It seems to me you're going to have to accept some embarresment either way. So you might look a little stupid if it turns out you were mistaken whatever it is you do, but that's simply a risk you'll have to take.

[Castaras]

Once it gets to a point that it's more than just cuddles, make your boundaries clear. Basically, when it gets to the point where you're uncomfortable with the amount of stuff and lack of confirmation on "what" you are, then go for the "Look, I dunno if you are but I'm not interested in <x>, however I'm fine with us being <y>."

[noparlpf]

So, broad relationship question, which may or may not be relevant to me right now but does come up on occasion, and so far consists of it eventually just going away or me bumbling through a round of awkwardness.
Say you have a friend, you like them, you enjoy their company, think they're generally pretty great, but you're not romantically interested in them. You think you start noticing signs that they might be romantically interested in you. At what point, and how, should you make it clear that their suspected feelings are not reciprocated?
As soon as you notice one of the signs, like them doing something nice for you? But what if you were reading them wrong, or it was just a little crush they had no intention of acting on? Isn't that kinda premature and potentially humiliating rejection?
When it starts getting physical? But what if you like cuddles, and/or it turns out that they also like cuddles and didn't intend for it to go any further than that?
When it starts getting REALLY physical? Just what are the protocols for distinguishing between a friends-with-benefits arrangement and an actual relationship?
When they flat-out ask you out or start to "define the relationship"? If it gets that far, aren't you at risk of having led them on?
And, again, of course, HOW do you do it?

I wait until they tell me, mostly because I second-guess myself so much that I'm never sure that I'm sure that I'm reading things properly.
I also don't "get physical" with friends anyway, so that makes it a bit simpler than in friendships that do involve cuddling, I guess.

[Glass Mouse]

How are you doing today Glass? Any good luck?

Sweet of you to ask I've been keeping incredibly busy with work and studies, which helps distract me. And keeping Serp's advice in mind has been very helpful for repelling the worst doubt.

Now I just gotta jumpstart my social life. That's not hard, right?


In regards to the marriage discussion, I personally could never dream of asking for permission, but I think it's great when people's values line up. As long as all parties agree on the best way to do things (and no one is hurt or coerced or anything), no harm.

But Jib, one thing I'll note: There's nothing wrong with being very religious/passionate/traditional/liberal/whatever, but if she starts dictating your own beliefs/behaviour/etc. (as with your faith and marriage), that's not cool, and it's time to assert boundaries.
I'm not saying it will happen. I just saw a tiny red flag. Or, not even red. Pink, maybe. Something to keep in mind at least.

At what point, and how, should you make it clear that their suspected feelings are not reciprocated?

Oooh, this is hard. I would err on the side of "when they specifically ask", but then again, I'm not good at this. As in, I don't notice attraction until it's stated with words. So there are probably a lot of social nuances I don't get.

You could bring it up if you're starting to engage in behaviour that's qualitatively different from what you do with other friends (which would be complicated if you're a very FWB-y person, I guess...).

Or if their behaviour starts hindering the friendship or actively creeping you out.

Also: there's no "leading on" if nothing is stated. If someone cannot muster the courage to ask unambigiously, they have no right to cast blame if they misread signals. Unless you actually are an affection vampire, but let's assume not.

As for the HOW... The only time I've brought it up unprovoked, I said something like, "Hey, I'm not assuming anything, but I just want to clear the air - I only see friendship here," which seems totally reasonable to me, but the guy never spoke to me again, sooo...

[Coidzor]

So, broad relationship question, which may or may not be relevant to me right now but does come up on occasion, and so far consists of it eventually just going away or me bumbling through a round of awkwardness.
Say you have a friend, you like them, you enjoy their company, think they're generally pretty great, but you're not romantically interested in them. You think you start noticing signs that they might be romantically interested in you. At what point, and how, should you make it clear that their suspected feelings are not reciprocated?
As soon as you notice one of the signs, like them doing something nice for you? But what if you were reading them wrong, or it was just a little crush they had no intention of acting on? Isn't that kinda premature and potentially humiliating rejection?

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General rule of thumb to my knowledge is you don't do anything unless they start doing something that necessitates a response, like getting super creepy and making the other person and/or bystanders uncomfortable, asking the other person out, they wake up in bed together, or otherwise being a hassle or nuisance about it.

When it starts getting physical? But what if you like cuddles, and/or it turns out that they also like cuddles and didn't intend for it to go any further than that?

If someone thinks a friend likes them and they don't want said friend to get the wrong idea, it's usually considered better to have firmer physical boundaries with that friend. I'd personally hold more with that than the alternative of going through with cuddles but keeping enough awareness to firmly shut down anything fresh, but that might be more of a failure of myself and my perspective in seeing the ways that can play out.

When it starts getting REALLY physical? Just what are the protocols for distinguishing between a friends-with-benefits arrangement and an actual relationship?

Well, what I see in the media when such things are dealt with is generally some variation of the question "Well, what are we to one another?" with greater or lesser degrees of eloquence and panache. I think the protocol is that you have to have some level of communication and ask.

And if you can't communicate with one another, it's kind of debatable whether there's a real chance that it's a relationship and not just a sexual liaison or one-night stand, but that's another kettle of fish entirely.

When they flat-out ask you out or start to "define the relationship"? If it gets that far, aren't you at risk of having led them on?
And, again, of course, HOW do you do it?

In general my understanding is that one has firm physical boundaries and cuts out any flirting one may have been doing in a way that is as polite as commensurate with one's regard for the person with unrequited feelings. Cooling the relationship without going full ice queen.

If someone has sex with someone knowing going into it that they don't want a relationship and they're not clear about that and they think that the other person wants a relationship? Yeah, that's probably going to be pretty unanimously considered leading someone on, possibly even taking advantage of them depending upon the sexes of the people involved. (edit: I somehow forgot to include the sentence about how this is pretty unlikely to be accidentally stumbled in upon, so it's mostly included for the sake of silliness and hyperbole. Sort of a hard limit on where it emphatically is, I suppose...)

If they're asking to define the relationship and it's not some odd wording variant of asking the person out, then some kind of critical miscommunication has very probably occurred, but as long as one hasn't been doing the whole flirting and sauciness thing then the rest of the social circle, except for those who can't due to social obligations, is most likely not going to view the person rejecting the other as having done any misconduct or foolishness. The person with unrequited feelings, well, it depends on their mental state and a number of other things, because people can get bugs up their arses no matter what one does when it comes to love and lust and frustrated desires.

Of course, my understanding largely comes from highschool/college silliness and pop cultural observations, so YMMV as you get further from American culture and interact with mature human beings who act like adults in their personal lives.

(edit: I should probably mention that I've yet to really hear of people acting like that beyond vague rumors, but I try to remain optimistic even while being a pessimist.)

Sweet of you to ask I've been keeping incredibly busy with work and studies, which helps distract me. And keeping Serp's advice in mind has been very helpful for repelling the worst doubt.

Now I just gotta jumpstart my social life. That's not hard, right?

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Just gotta keep up the energy and refuse to allow yourself to get discouraged and above all get out of the house rather than falling into the comfortable trap of a hermited rut.

Hopefully your work and studies aren't draining you too much.

As for the HOW... The only time I've brought it up unprovoked, I said something like, "Hey, I'm not assuming anything, but I just want to clear the air - I only see friendship here," which seems totally reasonable to me, but the guy never spoke to me again, sooo...

Well, in some circles it is considered a minor snub even if the man was not interested in the woman, and in others it's code for "I'm not going to actually say this directly, but read between the lines here: there's no friendship between us."

Of course, there's also the possibility where he wasn't interested in being just a friend and his intent from the start had been to get a feel for you before pursuing you romantically/sexually.

There's two other ways of semi-commonly reading that which I'm forgetting as well, so, yeah, 2nd-guessing can be quite fun and complex, no?

So. That girl I've been posting about.

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I now know she likes me, but I haven't been able to talk to her about stuff yet. I've been sick as Hell since Sunday and now that I'm well I'm sinking in school work to that I have to make up. We should be hanging out Sunday.

My problem now is I'm not sure I like her. She's a good friend and I like sexy-times, but I just don't know. I'm a lot less confused now, and that's good. But we still need to talk.

She also happens to likes another guy that we basically only see at Cons, and there's a Con next weekend. The thing is that he's a giant jerk. She knows it, her best friends know it, and I know it. IDK if it's just me being petty/over-attached as a friend or what, but even if I don't like her, I feel he's bad news. But I guess that's none of my business.

Feeling are confusing.

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Yeah, it's too bad text messaging is so impersonal for this kind of thing. Gonna have to get over that hurdle at some point if you two do end up seeing each other though, probably. For convenience's sake. I really hope someone has asked her why the hell she likes him if he's a giant jerk and a drag to her and everyone else when he's around...

The feels will sort themselves out, though I'd advise against going to tier 15 before you've gotten a better handle on them, but, really, seriously, just get her on a date or something. Seeing her in an explicitly non-friend context, in general, helps with a lot of one's head-game and head-place.

Lulz, My girlfriends parents shot me down again~ I ask them to let me put a ring on her finger at least once a month. Her Father is all for it, but her Mother seems like she is not ready for it yet. She keeps telling me I can improve a bit more still.

Though this time she told me I need a six-pack first :D

I have to admit, I'm impressed that you're able to laugh about that. I'm getting flashbacks to reading "The Joke Was On Me," just thinking about it.

I have similar concerns (about exposing myself to the public). I haven't ever used an online dating tool, but I'm considering it now. I don't even use Facebook anymore.

Is OKCupid the way to go?

Even if it doesn't pan out, as one fork of a multi-pronged attack strategy it doesn't cost you that much to have a decent dating profile up.

[Thufir]

I find the idea of someone having to ask the parents' permission to marry their child really weird and kind of disturbing in this day and age. I would hope that if my future partner tried it on my parents, they'd tell them to get out ask me, seeing as I'm the one whose opinion, you know, actually matters.

I guess I just find the idea that my parents get any say in anything that important to me, even just as an empty gesture, vaguely offensive.

I'm with the snake lady on this. The parents don't have a say.
Or rather, OK. Their opinion may be relevant, certainly if there are good relations between them and their child. But if I ask a woman to marry me, her parents' opinions are relevant to her, not to me. If her parents are against it for some reason, their opinions matter to her, that may affect whetehr or not she says yes, but it should not affect whether or not I ask in the first place (Unless I know them well enough to place a similar value on their opinions).

I rather like the idea of getting the parents' blessing to ask - not permission, it wouldn't stop me from asking anyway - but it's a nice gesture IMO, and if they say no, there may well be a good reason for it which I might want to confront before going any further.

As I basically said above, I feel such a reason is more relevant to the person being asked than the one doing the asking.
The other point I would make is that in my opinion, you probably shouldn't ask if you don't intend to abide by their feelings. If they say no and you go through with it anyway, you're disrespecting them way more than if you just didn't ask their permission/blessing. And if they say yes, well, they'd presumably have been happy if you hadn't and had then just told them you were engaged.

Also, it's a sexist tradition since the man would ask the permission of the lady's parents but not vice versa. And asking in both directions only works if both sides have already basically agreed that they are getting married, so you're no longer asking beforehand and the whole thing falls down.

So, broad relationship question, which may or may not be relevant to me right now but does come up on occasion, and so far consists of it eventually just going away or me bumbling through a round of awkwardness.
Say you have a friend, you like them, you enjoy their company, think they're generally pretty great, but you're not romantically interested in them. You think you start noticing signs that they might be romantically interested in you. At what point, and how, should you make it clear that their suspected feelings are not reciprocated?
As soon as you notice one of the signs, like them doing something nice for you? But what if you were reading them wrong, or it was just a little crush they had no intention of acting on? Isn't that kinda premature and potentially humiliating rejection?
When it starts getting physical? But what if you like cuddles, and/or it turns out that they also like cuddles and didn't intend for it to go any further than that?
When it starts getting REALLY physical? Just what are the protocols for distinguishing between a friends-with-benefits arrangement and an actual relationship?
When they flat-out ask you out or start to "define the relationship"? If it gets that far, aren't you at risk of having led them on?
And, again, of course, HOW do you do it?

I realise this is unhelpful, but I'd say it depends on the precise circumstances and people. To be a bit more precise though:

Also: there's no "leading on" if nothing is stated. If someone cannot muster the courage to ask unambigiously, they have no right to cast blame if they misread signals. Unless you actually are an affection vampire, but let's assume not.

This is broadly speaking true. If they care, they should be able to ask. However, just because they should doesn't mean they will, so it's not unreasonable to think you should say something at some point. And again, it depends on people and circumstances, but

If someone has sex with someone knowing going into it that they don't want a relationship and they're not clear about that and they think that the other person wants a relationship? Yeah, that's probably going to be pretty unanimously considered leading someone on,

This is fairly universal, I'd say. Because this is a point where if they're really looking for something more, they will interpret it that way if you haven't been clear. You want to be at least fairly sure of their feelings on the matter before reaching this point. Of course some people might start assuming earlier, but there are always disconnects between different people's assumptions which you just have to deal with - ideally you should have an idea of when they start making those assumptions (depends on people and circumstances, like I said), but this is one which I think a massive majority would agree should not be left too ambiguous.

As to the how... I'd say you can at least test the waters somewhat in casual conversation - e.g. mention being attracted to other guys and gauge their reaction, look for not only what they do but how they do it, because that can be significant. Be direct when necessary, and on those occasions I'd say be brief and very to the point so any awkwardness is not drawn out.

[Glass Mouse]

Just gotta keep up the energy and refuse to allow yourself to get discouraged and above all get out of the house rather than falling into the comfortable trap of a hermited rut.

Yes, sir. Gonna find a post-exam party Friday, even if I have to host one myself!

There's two other ways of semi-commonly reading that which I'm forgetting as well, so, yeah, 2nd-guessing can be quite fun and complex, no?

I've been cutting down on 2nd-guessing. It's done wonders for my mental figures

Though: Interesting. I had boiled it down to either "he was pursuing" or "I made everything too awkward". I hadn't even considered the secret code possibility. Is that really a thing? Maybe friend hunting really is easier when you treat it like a spy flick.

This is broadly speaking true. If they care, they should be able to ask. However, just because they should doesn't mean they will, so it's not unreasonable to think you should say something at some point. And again, it depends on people and circumstances, but (...)

Oh, absolutely. "Leading someone on" is just such an icky concept. Decent people still plan around other people's emotions and try to accomodate the most obvious shortcomings of human communication. But that's a question of "kind vs. careless" not "leading on vs. ... not leading on?"

[Coidzor]

Yes, sir. Gonna find a post-exam party Friday, even if I have to host one myself!

I've been cutting down on 2nd-guessing. It's done wonders for my mental figures

Pretty amazing, indeed. One of those vices I've been trying to kick lately, I must admit.

Though: Interesting. I had boiled it down to either "he was pursuing" or "I made everything too awkward". I hadn't even considered the secret code possibility. Is that really a thing? Maybe friend hunting really is easier when you treat it like a spy flick.

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Well, I've run into more people who bought into it on the part of the rejected, but I've seen enough cases that I wouldn't call it an aberration if someone intended it that way. Granted, there's people who seriously buy into Ladder Theory and "nice guys," so... prevalence and amount of pants-on-head crazy involved is something I wouldn't want to do more than speculate on.

Of course, I've had my own experiences where as far as I can tell I was staying within the bounds of social acceptability and not being creepy about it or a nuisance and I still got the "just friends" thing from a girl I was expressing interest in and essentially they just cut me out of their lives entirely immediately afterward. Lost most of my friends from college between having two of those within the same friend group (the first honestly and then the second because I tried to figure out where we stood after we ended up in bed together) and finding out that when things ended with my ex-fiance it was one of those break-ups where people have to pick sides and I was definitely not the one anyone was going to pick. So it could just be that I'm just one of those people who is not only repugnant in all senses of the word but who also ends up finding those who will tolerate them and not disabuse them of the notion that there is some spark of friendship there.

Oh, absolutely. "Leading someone on" is just such an icky concept. Decent people still plan around other people's emotions and try to accomodate the most obvious shortcomings of human communication. But that's a question of "kind vs. careless" not "leading on vs. ... not leading on?"

My understanding is that it's mostly bunk, really the product of wounded egos and discombobulated socially awkward penguins more than anything, except for those rare (I hope anyway) cases where you actually find someone who strings along socially awkward suitors in order to extract gifts and favors from them so as not to have to expend their own personal funds to get what they want.

More of a thing "nice guys" complain about than something that actually happens, especially unintentionally. It's still within the realm of possibility that someone is enough of an ingenue to just not get what signals they were giving, but it's... not something I would consider plausible beyond a once in a blue moon scenario.

[Adumbration]

I'd given up on OkCupid - as a matter of fact, I had already deleted my account, but for some reason a few days ago I resurrected it. On my previous try I had tried messaging numerous girls, but while I got a few responses, they never lead anywhere or were from girls I in the end didn't really fancy.

This time around, I sent two messages total. Now I'm engaged in a conversation with a really fascinating girl that has remarkably similar taste to mine - and I just got a response from the other girl as well.

What just happened.

[Morph Bark]

What just happened.

I wonder...

[rogueboy]

What just happened.

You gave some of us hope, that's what happened

[Adumbration]

I... I think I may have a date coming up some time in the future. Asked the girl I've been chatting with out on a coffee or a hot beverage of choice, and she said she would - but she'd prefer to chat with me some more first and add me on facebook to do so. But things are looking good.

[Jallorn]

So I've decided I can probably benefit from the conversation(s) that go on here. I'm in college, and I've had one relationship. It was short because I realized it wasn't good for me. In short, I have very little experience, and second doubt everything about relationships thanks to that. Which is to say, whenever I get the courage up to ask a girl out, I wait just long enough for doubts to start forming again.

I have got a specific question: The girl I want to ask out lives in the same dorm as me, and I was thinking a good first date would be for me to make something for dinner and to just eat in the dorm kitchen. It would be cheaper than going out, and probably taste better, it would give us a chance to chat and get to know each other better (I know her from classes, so we're not that familiar with each other yet), and it would be easy to fit into both our schedules. Is there a good reason this isn't a good idea for a first date? (I don't have any experience with dates, since my first relationship was a friend of mine, and we didn't really do anything special (which I've since realized was a mistake))

[dehro]

it seems a good idea to me.
it's low key enough for you not to make a big deal of it..and in that picture I wouldn't put too much of an accent on the "date" side of your ..well.. date.
not sure I'm making myself clear.

[fergo]

While I'm in favour of keeping dates and simple and cheap as possible, I'd be a bit wary about your first one being you cooking a meal for her .

It might be a bit awkward if any of your other flatmates walk in. You want it to be just the two of you; if any of your friends come up and sit down with you, it'll cease to be a date. And you can't really tell any of your friends to leave you alone--not very romantic! While cooking a meal is a fantastic idea, maybe it'd be better to leave it until after the first date?

So think up some fun date ideas that'll get you away from everyone else and spending some time together .

That's just my opinion, though, I'm sure that if it's what you think is best, cooking a meal will go great . Good luck and keep us updated!

[noparlpf]

Not really the season for it in this hemisphere, but you could have a picnic instead if you want to cook food and have some degree of privacy.

[Heliomance]

What's an acceptable way to get across to an ex a sentiment of "Yes, I am over you, no, I'm not creepily obsessed with you, but if I ever had the option of getting back together with you I'd take it in a heartbeat, because what we had was amazing and I'd like that back"?

[noparlpf]

What's an acceptable way to get across to an ex a sentiment of "Yes, I am over you, no, I'm not creepily obsessed with you, but if I ever had the option of getting back together with you I'd take it in a heartbeat, because what we had was amazing and I'd like that back"?

Strikes me as a bad idea regardless.

[Wyntonian]

What's an acceptable way to get across to an ex a sentiment of "Yes, I am over you, no, I'm not creepily obsessed with you, but if I ever had the option of getting back together with you I'd take it in a heartbeat, because what we had was amazing and I'd like that back"?

"Y'know, we had a lot of fun together?"

That said, I can't think of a way that could end well. Seriously, I'd advise against this.

[fergo]

Not really the season for it in this hemisphere, but you could have a picnic instead if you want to cook food and have some degree of privacy.

Privacy is probably a bad thing when risking freezing to death .

What's an acceptable way to get across to an ex a sentiment of "Yes, I am over you, no, I'm not creepily obsessed with you, but if I ever had the option of getting back together with you I'd take it in a heartbeat, because what we had was amazing and I'd like that back"?

How, exactly, does 'being over someone' and 'wanting to get back together' work alongside each other? (Not that I doubt you, I'm just curious ).

[noparlpf]

Privacy is probably a bad thing when risking freezing to death .

Yeah, could be. Still, it's a good idea during warm weather. Or warmer if you're in one of those places that only ever gets "cold" and "less cold".

[fergo]

You could check out these ideas for something silly and zany .

Personally, I'd stick to something a bit more traditional for a first date, mind . As long as you get away from other people and have time to talk.

[Heliomance]

Privacy is probably a bad thing when risking freezing to death .



How, exactly, does 'being over someone' and 'wanting to get back together' work alongside each other? (Not that I doubt you, I'm just curious ).

I'm not pining over her, and I'd be perfectly capable of having a relationship with someone else and it not suffering because of my previous relationship. However, what we had together was very good, and I believe that in the theoretical event that we got back together, it would be good again.

It's less that I miss her, and more that I miss the dynamic we had together, if that makes sense. I would be equally happy having a similar dynamic with someone else, but I've never met anyone else that I sparked that well with and there's the feeling of going with what you know, of "if it happened once, it can happen again".

[Jib]

Don't worry Glass, Its actually the other way around a bit. I want to convert to Orthodox, which means I would have to convince her to convert to Orthodox too. While my knowledge on it is not all together and I haven't chosen a sect as of yet, a Rabbi that was refereed to me here on the board is working with me to figure it all out. In the end between me and her religion would be more of a point for our children, because it doesn't matter what I become am or will be I want to Marry her, and its not so much which direction we are going with our religion, but how far we go. :D I do thank for the concern though, I have in the past been a super please kind of person and I had to stomp that out along my development into the me of now~

The bulk of my wanting to become more and more religious actually comes from me trying to figure out why life has been what it has. Believing in God really makes my life much more, something, but that something is better than it was times ago.

And for some reason I need to find my pink shirt and pants now, it sounds fun.

So @Glass again, is there any way you could find a DnD group or something else you enjoy around where you live? I am not very good at this whole socializing thing either, but I honestly started with WoW and Ventrillo, it really was fun and made me want to go find people to talk to.

@Coidzor

Its not really to bad to get shot down by them because they are just the kind of people that could cut you up and make it seem like a fun thing to do~ Beside that, I dun't plan to give up on her and they accepted that, which I consider a very good thing. Her Father actually would rather she stays here and continues with me than join the military. So I suppose its not the normal get shot down scenario.

Taco Taco Tuesday!!!!!!

As for Asking Her Parents

She has told me once that if her father does not approve she would not marry me. She respects her father very deeply, and she believes that if he said no it would be because he thinks its best for her. I think thats a bit of a null point for me though because I have earned their respect pretty effectively.

Bit slow on that part, missed this area of the board for a while cause I was Character Generating.

[Form]

Is someone willing to have another look at my OkCupid profile now that I've made some changes and added a few thingies?

Also, I could use some tips on what to write in a (first) message. I know to avoid spammy one-liners, but I still find it a bit difficult to come up with something. I can't help but that it feels a little forced. Chatting up random strangers feels weird. So far, I figure it should show some effort, try to hook into interests mentioned in a girl's profile a little, yet not be too long.

[Serpentine]

I could. Sounds to me like you've got the right idea with your messages.

[snoopy13a]

Also, I could use some tips on what to write in a (first) message. I know to avoid spammy one-liners, but I still find it a bit difficult to come up with something. I can't help but that it feels a little forced. Chatting up random strangers feels weird. So far, I figure it should show some effort, try to hook into interests mentioned in a girl's profile a little, yet not be too long.

You should strive for a delicate balance. You want to show that you actually read the profile, but you don't want to appear like you've put in too much effort.

[rogueboy]

Question on OKC and an impending move: I'm planning to be living on the opposite coast from where I am now within 6 months (including a multi-week road-trip to visit some family and friends along the way), going from a town of 100,000 (50% university) with nothing around to a metropolitan area of a few million. At what point does it make sense to shift my profile to my new destination? The few (rough) ideas I've had would be a) not until I'm actually moved, b) once I actually have a more concrete end-date here (grad school) and starting date for a job on the far end, or c) just move it now and ignore the dating side of things while I finish up with my work here. I'm thinking (b) or (c) would involve a disclaimer about when I'd actually be there (at least roughly, in the case of option c).

Also, the ubiquitous request for any feedback on my profile.

[snoopy13a]

Question on OKC and an impending move: I'm planning to be living on the opposite coast from where I am now within 6 months (including a multi-week road-trip to visit some family and friends along the way), going from a town of 100,000 (50% university) with nothing around to a metropolitan area of a few million. At what point does it make sense to shift my profile to my new destination? The few (rough) ideas I've had would be a) not until I'm actually moved, b) once I actually have a more concrete end-date here (grad school) and starting date for a job on the far end, or c) just move it now and ignore the dating side of things while I finish up with my work here. I'm thinking (b) or (c) would involve a disclaimer about when I'd actually be there (at least roughly, in the case of option c).

Also, the ubiquitous request for any feedback on my profile.

Well, here's feedback:

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To start, your first paragraph is a red flag:

"I abandoned my sanity at the end of my freshman year of college, when I declared myself a chemistry major. I waited until a few years ago (when I started grad school) to truly embrace the insanity. But sanity's overrated anyways, so it's all good."

You don't want to talk about "embracing your insanity" to a perfect stranger that you want to get coffee with.

Then you end with:

"I go well beyond most people in embracing my weirdness. I'm usually the first to point out that I'm weird, and I'll always do it with a smile on my face. "

You don't want draw attention to "weirdness."

Another red flag: "I put a lot of value on doing what I can to help my friends in any way I can. This has meant pointing out when a friend was doing something stupid or not doing something he should have . . ."

This suggest that you may be controlling. Women do not like controlling men.

Overall, you have put yourself across as potentially (1) insane, (2) weird, and (3) possibly controlling.

My advice:


1) Shorten things up, a lot. Most people are scanning through these things quickly. A long-winded profile is apt to be ignored.

2) Highlight your strong points but don't dwell to much on them. In my opinion, your high points are (1) You seem to be a chemistry grad student, which highlights intelligence and potentially good employment prospects (2) You seem to be a recreational soccer player, which highlights physical fitness. I also like soccer as your "hook." It is an activity that many people have done and is universally positive. I'm sure there are tons of women who have played high school soccer who read through these profiles.

3) Don't, and I repeat, don't make any reference to "insanity" or "weirdness." Women are looking for any red flag. There are tons of men on these sites; you cannot afford to shoot yourself in the foot.

It should be short and to the point. The longer the profile, the less likely a woman will read it. For example,

Hi, I'm a chemistry grad student at X (Don't talk too much about chemistry, because most people don't understand it. However, most people will find it somewhat impressive by itself).

I grew up in X. I like your description of Seattle, mostly: I grew up in the Northwest (Seattle), and still love the slightly damp, overcast, breezy days a lot - nothing compares to the smell and feel of the air after a rain. I also miss the beauty of Washington's proper lakes and mountains (no, Mt. Nittany doesn't count).

What I changed was the put-down of lakes and mountains not in Washington. You don't want a reader to think: "Oh, he doesn't think our lakes and mountains are proper, well he can . . ."

In my spare time, I enjoy spending time with my friends--either simply relaxing over a drink or two or playing board games. I value friends who are honest and kind.

My passion is soccer. I've played all of my life and currently am in a few adult rec leagues. I also enjoy watching pro soccer on TV and once I finish up grad school, I'm looking to get involved as a coach.



For the one thing people notice about you, change it someone like "My friendly smile" or "clever grin" or something else benign and harmless.

[rogueboy]

Well, here's feedback:

Thanks!

Spoiler

Show

The comments about weirdness and the opening paragraph were intended as light-hearted jabs at myself, but I see how they can come across otherwise. They've been removed.

Another red flag: "I put a lot of value on doing what I can to help my friends in any way I can. This has meant pointing out when a friend was doing something stupid or not doing something he should have . . ."

This suggest that you may be controlling. Women do not like controlling men.

This was something I put together quickly (and had just put in), but thanks for pointing that out. Hopefully my shortened summary of that is less potentially off-putting.

I redid most of my Self-Summary taking your comments into account. Some rephrasing, alterations, and rearrangements, but hopefully it's an improvement overall.