The Amazing Spider-Man #700

[soir8]

So after 50 years, Marvel have decided to end one of their most popular and successful series with a shocking and drastic change, leading into the new series, Superior Spider-Man.

For those of you who haven't been reading Spider-Man comics lately:

Spoiler

Show

Dr. Octopus, his body failing him after a career of getting punched by people with super strength, tried to go out in a blaze of glory - attempting to incinerate the entire planet using an array of orbital lenses. Spider-Man foiled his plans and saved the world, even saving Doc Oc from his flooding underwater base; but the devious doctor had one last trick up his sleeve, using one of his octobots to switch bodies with his longtime foe, leaving Peter Parker's mind trapped in a dying body locked in a maximum security prison and Dr Octopus living Spider-Man's life, complete with all his memories and secrets.
However, Peter Parker soon realised that he also had access to all of Otto Octavius's memories, and used the doc's own technology and contacts to stage a prison break. He found and fought the imposter Spider-Man, but at every turn was outwitted. In the final moments of their battle, Peter felt the body he was trapped in failing at last; his life flashing before his eyes, he let it all flood through the lingering mental link he and Octavius shared. As Peter Parker died, the man who had stolen his body understood the horror of a life lost, and promised to protect Peter Parker's loved ones and continue his legacy; knowing, at last, that with great power must come great responsibility.
Seeing the world, and his own past, from a new perspective, Otto Octavius is determined to surpass the man who's mantle he has assumed; to become the Superior Spider-Man.

TLDR;

Spoiler

Show

HOLY MC****ITYBALLS PETER PARKER'S DEAD AND DOC OC IS SPIDER-MAN NOW!!!

Apparently the new series is intended to be somewhat darker and grittier than the Spider-Man we're used to; "Spider-Man by way of Batman". I'm actually quite excited about this daring change.

Thoughts?

[Surfing HalfOrc]

He's a major comic book character. Peter Parker WILL be back! He's only mostly dead...

Miracle Max: Whoo-hoo-hoo, look who knows so much. It just so happens that your friend here is only MOSTLY dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. With all dead, well, with all dead there's usually only one thing you can do.
Inigo Montoya: What's that?
Miracle Max: Go through his clothes and look for loose change.


Clone, Artificial Intelligence, "It was all a Dream," it doesn't matter. Stand him up, dust him off, give him a pep talk. He'll be fine.

[Ramza00]

He will be back, this is marvel main continuity we are talking about.

[soir8]

Well, **** spoilers I suppose...

C'mon guys, lets just pretend we don't all know the status quo will return next time someone rewrites Marvel reality, and get excited about the possibilities opened up by this new development.

Of course Peter parker won't stay dead; I'm not expecting anyone to care about that. What I'm excited about is Doc Oc being Spider-Man. This is a huge change in direction for a character who's spent years as a notorious villain.

[Aotrs Commander]

The sheer level of unbridled idiocy at Marvel simply flabberghasts me. And they do this AFTER One More Day? To set the status quo to something Quesada liked just to do this?

It's so sad that I have to say I'm glad all the comics I'm getting are ending. Heck, it's even sadder to say that I'm now sorta wishing Disney HAD interfered when they took over, because I fail to see how what could have been there would have been worse than what what got now, which is, by turns, stupid, full of unneccessary character deaths (see Avengers Arena) for nothing more than the kicks and giggles and, worst of all, in the case of the closing issues of all the X-Men titles - boring.

I swear Marvel and DC are having a competition to see who can suck most and frack off the largest proportion of their long-standing fans in a desparate attempt to attract a larger customer base that, due to their distribution methods, simply does not exist...

[Friv]

*yawn*

Dumb plot, dumb idea, won't last.

[Avilan the Grey]

Well, **** spoilers I suppose...

C'mon guys, lets just pretend we don't all know the status quo will return next time someone rewrites Marvel reality, and get excited about the possibilities opened up by this new development.

Um... if we pretend that, I would simply have to stop reading Marvel comics forever to punish the brainless morons doing this story. Seriolusly, if I didn't know this was going to be retconned away at some point, it would be the final straw that made me boycott all superhero comics forever.

The saddest part is that people like Gail Simone is riding to the writer staff's defense begging people to not stop reading the comic and promising that since Dan Slott is a fan, he knows what he is doing and this is best for the character.

[LaZodiac]

Like many others I know this is going to be retconned out, and I even know HOW they're going to do it, but it's still disgusting and stupid.

Anyway, how they're going to do it. Doc Ock in Peter's body has PEter's memories. WELL, it's gonna turn out, the body switch didn't ACTUALLY happen, despite all evidence to the contrary. What REALLY happened was just a MEMORY transfer, so Peter just THOUGHT he was a Doc Ock, when infact he's still himself.

[Avilan the Grey]

And as usual the writers are so damn full of themselves. Dan Slott sounds like he thinks he IS Doc Ock in his interviews (110% EGO).

On the other hand:
Admittedly I am not personally suffering from this, since I have not picked up a single issue of main continuity spider-man since One More Day. It is still on my boycott list since that was published.

Edit: Just saw a post on the official John Byrne forum where he points out how stupid some fans are for thinking any change like this is permanent, comparing it to the bashings (by snail mail!) he did get for killing off Doctor Doom, even though "I wrote in the 'Out' right there", and how obvious the 'Out' in this story is.

[Traab]

I think it could be interesting, if only to cause future character development for doc ock once things get switched back. If that even happens. Also, the whole drama of the doc pretending to be someone he isnt, now that he has a conscience.

[Jerthanis]

Yeah, this seems like a stupid thing to do to Peter Parker, since they couldn't get him divorced from the brand name of Spider-Man when they had set him up to retire and Ben Riley had all his memories and conscience too.

The idea of a body swap is shaky and contrived as is... to have it form the lynchpin of a major character change like this is... dubious.

[soir8]

My opinion of the current state of Marvel comics is that the general creative direction is a complete mess, but individual writers can be very good. I'm enjoying everything involving the X-Men at the moment, and some of the newer titles like Hawkeye and Scarlet Spider are fantastic. I've even enjoyed their Battle Royal ripoff, Avengers Arena. So while the idea of Spidey and Doc Oc swapping bodies sounds stupid, I'm fairly confident it'll be handled well (imo, it's already been done very well so far - the moment where Doc Oc experiences every loss Peter Parker has suffered and understands what drives him to save every life he can - even Oc's - I thought was very poignant).

[erikun]

Like many others I know this is going to be retconned out, and I even know HOW they're going to do it, but it's still disgusting and stupid.

Anyway, how they're going to do it. Doc Ock in Peter's body has PEter's memories. WELL, it's gonna turn out, the body switch didn't ACTUALLY happen, despite all evidence to the contrary. What REALLY happened was just a MEMORY transfer, so Peter just THOUGHT he was a Doc Ock, when infact he's still himself.

Yeah, this looks to be what they are aiming for. It turns out that, just like the mind switch didn't really get rid of Peter's memories, it didn't really get rid of Peter's personality and so he'll wake up one day and realize he's been himself the whole time.

Not that I care much anymore. I mean, there have been some really wacky plot twists in the Spiderman comic (anyone remember the organic stingers?) but between publicly unmasking himself in Civil War and the official retcon in One More Day, I haven't been interested in following what's going on anymore.

[Man on Fire]

I think that's a change for the better. After what they did in OMD and what followed and many earlier stories I came to hate Peter - I saw him as an uncarrying, selfish bastard and hypocrite who will let people die and sell his wife to the devil just so he don't have to feel guilty about something. This guy was beyond redemption. Superior Spider-Man...we all know he is a horrible person but he is at least trying to be better, that's more I can every say about Parker.

Not that I'm gonna read his book anyway, I follow writers, nto characters, and Dan Slott isn't my favorite.

And to people saying there is nothing good at marvel:
Captain Marvel by Kelly Sue DeConnick is great
Journey Into the Mystery by Kathryn Immoen is great and Kieron Gillen run was absolutely AMAZING! No seriously, go hunt it down, Kid Loki's adventures were brilliant.

That's the heroes I can relate to and follow, Peter was interesting only once, when JMS was writing him, outside of that he was jsut a total prick.

[soir8]

"There are no bad ideas, just bad execution"... I think Marvel Comics have proven that statement false many times.

Maybe after One More Day, Marvel have decided anything is a good idea in comparison to that bull****.

[Man on Fire]

"There are no bad ideas, just bad execution"... I think Marvel Comics have proven that statement false many times.

Maybe after One More Day, Marvel have decided anything is a good idea in comparison to that bull****.

But Marvel is proving that statement to be true all the time. Many of ideas that sound terrible on paper turns to be quite good in hands of good writer. Ressurect Loki as a kid sounds terrible, but then you read Journey Into The Mystery and you're awestruck. Sendind Hulk into space so he can be space Conan sounds terrible, yet Planet Hulk is regarded as one of the best modern Hulk stories. Giving Thor's powers to alien with horse head sounds stupid, yet Beta Ray Bill is beloved by many fans. Making Ares a good guy and let him join the avengers is idea that made many people uproar, yet his both mini-series and all other comics he was in made him a fan favorite people moruned after his death.

And One More Day COULD work. There were many ways in which it could work. Simply making MJ be one who got shot and Peter making the deal to save her life would make it much better - he would have sacrificed his own personal happines and literally best thing that ever happened to him to save the dearest person in his life.

In fact, that was plot of one rejected Superman pitch Joe Quesada based the OMD on. It went like this - Luthor and Brainiac steals Mr.Mxhowthehellyouspellthat powers and use them to depower Superman, reveal his secret idientity and threaten his loved ones. Superman teams up with Mr....THAT IMP FROM 5TH DIMENSION and once they set everything right, vilians make one last attempt at making Superman suffer - they literally poison Lois Lane's memories of him. With Lois dying Clark asks repowered Mr.Imnotgoingtowastemytimetryingtolearnhowyouspell that to save her, but he says that, as a 5th Dimension Imp he cannot just do something good, there must be mischief in his every deed, so he offers to save her by removing her and everybody's memories about Clark being Superman and their love and marriage. Superman agrees, sacrificing his happiness to save woman of his life.

There really aren't bad ideas, just bad executions. I personally hate Avenger Arena, but the thing it that with better plan this concept could actually work pretty fine (I even have one, but I doubt anybody's interested in that).

[DiscipleofBob]

But Marvel is proving that statement to be true all the time. Many of ideas that sound terrible on paper turns to be quite good in hands of good writer. Ressurect Loki as a kid sounds terrible, but then you read Journey Into The Mystery and you're awestruck. Sendind Hulk into space so he can be space Conan sounds terrible, yet Planet Hulk is regarded as one of the best modern Hulk stories. Giving Thor's powers to alien with horse head sounds stupid, yet Beta Ray Bill is beloved by many fans. Making Ares a good guy and let him join the avengers is idea that made many people uproar, yet his both mini-series and all other comics he was in made him a fan favorite people moruned after his death.

And One More Day COULD work. There were many ways in which it could work. Simply making MJ be one who got shot and Peter making the deal to save her life would make it much better - he would have sacrificed his own personal happines and literally best thing that ever happened to him to save the dearest person in his life.

There can be good and bad plot comic concepts but it all still comes down to the execution.

I loved the concept of Civil War. It actually got me to start buying comics again. It was a hero vs hero conflict which actually didn't have a clear good vs evil. Each side crossed into gray areas during the conflict, but then at the end, Marvel decided the Pro-Reg guys were right all along and were shocked and astonished that anyone could be Anti-Reg. Horribly executed.

Avengers VS X-Men was the same way, and the initial conflict was one that there were two legitimate sides, and something both sides would go to war over. Oh wait, no, the X-Men were wrong and therefore the bad guys all along. Because the editors say so.

[Man on Fire]

That only proves my argument futher - everythign lies in execution. just because both stories were bad doesn't mean the ideas behind them were bad.

[LaZodiac]

But Marvel is proving that statement to be true all the time. Many of ideas that sound terrible on paper turns to be quite good in hands of good writer. Ressurect Loki as a kid sounds terrible, but then you read Journey Into The Mystery and you're awestruck. Sendind Hulk into space so he can be space Conan sounds terrible, yet Planet Hulk is regarded as one of the best modern Hulk stories. Giving Thor's powers to alien with horse head sounds stupid, yet Beta Ray Bill is beloved by many fans. Making Ares a good guy and let him join the avengers is idea that made many people uproar, yet his both mini-series and all other comics he was in made him a fan favorite people moruned after his death.

And One More Day COULD work. There were many ways in which it could work. Simply making MJ be one who got shot and Peter making the deal to save her life would make it much better - he would have sacrificed his own personal happines and literally best thing that ever happened to him to save the dearest person in his life.

In fact, that was plot of one rejected Superman pitch Joe Quesada based the OMD on. It went like this - Luthor and Brainiac steals Mr.Mxhowthehellyouspellthat powers and use them to depower Superman, reveal his secret idientity and threaten his loved ones. Superman teams up with Mr....THAT IMP FROM 5TH DIMENSION and once they set everything right, vilians make one last attempt at making Superman suffer - they literally poison Lois Lane's memories of him. With Lois dying Clark asks repowered Mr.Imnotgoingtowastemytimetryingtolearnhowyouspell that to save her, but he says that, as a 5th Dimension Imp he cannot just do something good, there must be mischief in his every deed, so he offers to save her by removing her and everybody's memories about Clark being Superman and their love and marriage. Superman agrees, sacrificing his happiness to save woman of his life.

There really aren't bad ideas, just bad executions. I personally hate Avenger Arena, but the thing it that with better plan this concept could actually work pretty fine (I even have one, but I doubt anybody's interested in that).

The only thing I can really disagree with is that, for Spiderman, a deal with literally the devil is wrong. Spiderman's creed is "with great power comes great responsibility". It is not responsible to make a deal with the DEVIL. You live with the consequences of your actions, and try to fix them, prevent them, in the future. There should be no cop out where you make a deal with the Devil.

Now Superman, on the other hand, he doesn't have that as his motto. He believes fully in self sacrafice for the greater good. I can see him doing this. But then I can also see Superman just mindwiping everyone HIMSELF since he can probably do that.

Now, I'm not saying the very central thought of what you said, "there are no bad stories, just bad executions" is wrong. I actually agree with it. But that doesn't mean every story can work with every character. Just because it's a good story doesn't mean it's a good SPIDERMAN story. The best way to execute the story would be for Mephisto to give his terms, and for Spiderman to simply say no and walk away.

[Avilan the Grey]

And One More Day COULD work. There were many ways in which it could work. Simply making MJ be one who got shot and Peter making the deal to save her life would make it much better - he would have sacrificed his own personal happines and literally best thing that ever happened to him to save the dearest person in his life.

And that wouldn't help, since the biggest problem with OMD is that it removes everything Peter is about. It doesn't matter if it's MJ or his aunt. See LaZodiac's post.

[Foeofthelance]

The problem with OMD wasn`t that Petere wasn`t taking responsibility - he was, in his own screwed up way. He believed that it was his choice to out himself during Civil War that was responsible for the shooting, and that by doing this he could fix the mistake. The problem with OMD was the logic and justification for the execution. `We are going to split up MJ and Peter. We know this is controversial, so we promise not to use magic to do it. We also understand Peter is supposed to be strongly moral and at least Christian in name, so they will not be getting a divorce. Instead he is going to make a deal with the Devil so that the Devil can use his powers to rewrite time instead. Oh, and to make sure this works we are going to show that every healer, scientist, and doctor we have on the roster is utterly incompetent.`

[Man on Fire]

The only thing I can really disagree with is that, for Spiderman, a deal with literally the devil is wrong. Spiderman's creed is "with great power comes great responsibility". It is not responsible to make a deal with the DEVIL. You live with the consequences of your actions, and try to fix them, prevent them, in the future. There should be no cop out where you make a deal with the Devil.

Now Superman, on the other hand, he doesn't have that as his motto. He believes fully in self sacrafice for the greater good. I can see him doing this. But then I can also see Superman just mindwiping everyone HIMSELF since he can probably do that.

Now, I'm not saying the very central thought of what you said, "there are no bad stories, just bad executions" is wrong. I actually agree with it. But that doesn't mean every story can work with every character. Just because it's a good story doesn't mean it's a good SPIDERMAN story. The best way to execute the story would be for Mephisto to give his terms, and for Spiderman to simply say no and walk away.

Then don't potray that as a cop out. Make Peter remember what happened and what he did and have to live with the consequences. Make it play on themes of responsibility, make him say that he would gladly damn himself for her sake, say that it was his fault she is dying and it's his responsibility to save her, no matter his personal loss, you can work with it.

Oh, and to make sure this works we are going to show that every healer, scientist, and doctor we have on the roster is utterly incompetent.

Linkara pointed a quick way to fix it - Doctor Strange wasn't there. Here, it's that simple - sudenly Peter cannot at instant ask evry person in the world to help her. He has literally one day to find a way to save may and the only guys in NY who could help her are either X-Men, and therefore guarded by Sentinels, or on pro-reg side, so that means he wil lget arrested if he tries to approach them.

Of course, even simpler would be for him to go to Tony Stark and say he will turn himself in if he'll use SHIELD resources to save MJ. While he is transported to Area 42 Mephisto approaches him and says that yes, Tony will put all resources he has. However, he is not allmighty, he don't control time and his people will get there one second to late. With depowered device around his neck Peter is cut from any means of contacting any other superhero who could help him, and they wouln't be there on time anyway. Mephisto offers him a deal..

[LaZodiac]

The problem with OMD wasn`t that Petere wasn`t taking responsibility - he was, in his own screwed up way. He believed that it was his choice to out himself during Civil War that was responsible for the shooting, and that by doing this he could fix the mistake. The problem with OMD was the logic and justification for the execution. `We are going to split up MJ and Peter. We know this is controversial, so we promise not to use magic to do it. We also understand Peter is supposed to be strongly moral and at least Christian in name, so they will not be getting a divorce. Instead he is going to make a deal with the Devil so that the Devil can use his powers to rewrite time instead. Oh, and to make sure this works we are going to show that every healer, scientist, and doctor we have on the roster is utterly incompetent.`

I'm not going to quote the other post because it'll cause mine to be way to long.

It is not responsible to make a deal with the devil.

Responsibility is LIVING WITH YOUR MISTAKES, and trying to make them NOT HAPPEN AGAIN. Things that have already happened cannot be prevented, but you can prevent them in the FUTURE. To tell Mephisto yes is to say "I don't WANT to live with my mistakes. I want to undo what I just did, because I don't like the results of what I just did". This is the ANTITHESIS of "With great power comes great responsibility". This it the equivilent of him selling his soul to the devil so he could prevent Uncle Ben's death.

[Avilan the Grey]

I'm not going to quote the other post because it'll cause mine to be way to long.

It is not responsible to make a deal with the devil.

Responsibility is LIVING WITH YOUR MISTAKES, and trying to make them NOT HAPPEN AGAIN. Things that have already happened cannot be prevented, but you can prevent them in the FUTURE. To tell Mephisto yes is to say "I don't WANT to live with my mistakes. I want to undo what I just did, because I don't like the results of what I just did". This is the ANTITHESIS of "With great power comes great responsibility". This it the equivilent of him selling his soul to the devil so he could prevent Uncle Ben's death.

Quoted for truth, as it were.

In addition, the reason all this happened is the other problem. Even if the writing had been good, and in character (which it was not), the knowledge of why OMD happened, meaning Joe Quesada pushing his own agenda, and his insane idea that he spoke for all "true" spidey fans doing it, is far enough by itself for fans to loathe it.
And the same thing happens again; Slott is pushing is own story, and not only insults people who assume this is temporary, but also being filled with the exact same kind of Ego as Quesada had at the time. (also, the comment that Doc Ock is "just like him" (a slightly overweight nerd) doesn't make the whole thing sit any better with fans since it reeks of self-insertion...)

[LaZodiac]

Let's not forget Joe Quesada also explicitly said, when taking over, he wouldn't do any Mephisto powered rewrites. The exact quote even refers to Mephisto in terms of "what he's not going to be using to retcon things"

Also, realization I just had. This is a way of "retconning" the deal with Mephisto without actually saying "ok, we did a terrible thing, we are literally turning back the clock so it didn't happen"

For you see, Octopeter isn't Peter Parker. So he can TOTALLY have a relathionship with Mary Jane now.

[Avilan the Grey]

For you see, Octopeter isn't Peter Parker. So he can TOTALLY have a relathionship with Mary Jane now.

I find it interesting that not more people have pointed out that what is happening is in fact borderline rape. The fact that Doc Ock is sleeping with a woman under false pretences is creepy beyond description. It is also a Trope in romcoms and romances, but hey...

I guess I would be waiting for pigs to fly straight out of a frozen hell, but I would love to have MJ actually leave him forever or at least kick him in the balls and never talk to him again when she finds out, but instead Slott is just using this to rewind OMD.

[Man on Fire]

I'm not going to quote the other post because it'll cause mine to be way to long.

It is not responsible to make a deal with the devil.

Responsibility is LIVING WITH YOUR MISTAKES, and trying to make them NOT HAPPEN AGAIN. Things that have already happened cannot be prevented, but you can prevent them in the FUTURE. To tell Mephisto yes is to say "I don't WANT to live with my mistakes. I want to undo what I just did, because I don't like the results of what I just did". This is the ANTITHESIS of "With great power comes great responsibility". This it the equivilent of him selling his soul to the devil so he could prevent Uncle Ben's death.

I disagree here about general assumption that making deal with the devil sin't responsible. I'm trying to explain to you what he would do in version I'm suggesting: he would sacrifice every bit of happiness in his already pretty miserable life, to save the person that is dying because of his mistake. Responsibility isn't only living with your mistakes, it's also fixing them. And if he was put in more convincing situation where the deal really would be the only option to save a life, wouldnt it be really responsible to save that life and bear the burden you put on yourself by making the deal with the devil?

[LaZodiac]

I find it interesting that not more people have pointed out that what is happening is in fact borderline rape. The fact that Doc Ock is sleeping with a woman under false pretences is creepy beyond description. It is also a Trope in romcoms and romances, but hey...

I guess I would be waiting for pigs to fly straight out of a frozen hell, but I would love to have MJ actually leave him forever or at least kick him in the balls and never talk to him again when she finds out, but instead Slott is just using this to rewind OMD.

He's pressing the rewind button in the worst way. And yha, Doc Ock is totally doing that, and that's absolutely god aweful. Especialy since from what I've heard he's still acting like Doc Ock in the Peter Parker body. So he's calling MJ "woman" and degrading her. And her response is "I still love you" and kissing him.

Meanwhile, Gail Simone recently got fired for not agreeing to do something stupid in her book. Fun fun sense make comic book companies.

EDIT: No. Making a deal with the devil is not responsible, even in the situation you describe. He's SATAN. I don't care what your belief system is, if a red guy with horns, a spade tail, cloven hooves, a pitchfork, and firey burning hair says "I'll revive your loved one and set right what once went wrong but all you have to do is sell your soul/marriage to me, because I want to taste it's suffering" you SAY NO.

Being responsible is also knowing what is and isn't the right choice. Selling A COUCH to the devil is a bad idea. Imagine how bad selling your SOUL to the Devil is.

[Man on Fire]

Meanwhile, Gail Simone recently got fired for not agreeing to do something stupid in her book. Fun fun sense make comic book companies.

And was immiediatelly rehired after Internet uproar.
I almost see it as an average episode of Jetsons with Dan Didio playing Mr. Spaycey and Gail Simone playing George Jetson.

"SIMONE! YOUR'E FIRED! Wait, what is this? Internet is mad at me again? What should I do? What should I do? SIMONE! SAVE ME!"

EDIT: No. Making a deal with the devil is not responsible, even in the situation you describe. He's SATAN. I don't care what your belief system is, if a red guy with horns, a spade tail, cloven hooves, a pitchfork, and firey burning hair says "I'll revive your loved one and set right what once went wrong but all you have to do is sell your soul/marriage to me, because I want to taste it's suffering" you SAY NO.

Being responsible is also knowing what is and isn't the right choice. Selling A COUCH to the devil is a bad idea. Imagine how bad selling your SOUL to the Devil is.

It's bad idea for you. But if you are trying to save another person and are desperate enough to spend eternity in hell for her, who say that's not admirable choice?

Also, I apparently need to point that out, I'm the guy who doesn't belive in objective good and objective evil.

[LaZodiac]

And was immiediatelly rehired after Internet uproar.
I almost see it as an average episode of Jetsons with Dan Didio playing Mr. Spaycey and Gail Simone playing George Jetson.

"SIMONE! YOUR'E FIRED! Wait, what is this? Internet is mad at me again? What should I do? What should I do? SIMONE! SAVE ME!"

It's bad idea for you. But if you are trying to save another person and are desperate enough to spend eternity in hell for her, who say that's not admirable choice?

Also, I apparently need to point that out, I'm the guy who doesn't belive in objective good and objective evil.

I don't believe in objective good or objective evil either. What do believe in is that Mephisto is a villian and Spiderman is a good guy, and good guys trusting villians is never a good thing.

Also, I'd rather die then have someone sell their soul to an evil person to save me.