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2013-11-05, 12:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2012
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."
Excellent, this is the sort of stuff I need to learn before I spend all my money and then get rolled anyways, thanks. I think if larger troop numbers are what's needed, should I spend more on Royal Court units to accompany them? Adding in more Crypteks or Lords seems to be important.
Also, what's the logic between the 4x+1 troop size for Necrons? I assume it has something to do with reanimation rolls.
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2013-11-05, 01:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2013
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."
The main thing is that you have to roll morale to see if you run away when you lose 1/4 of a squad. Since you always round up in 40k, squads of 4x + 1 can lose an extra guy before rolling to flee. When you are talking 2 vs 3 or 3 vs 4 that is likely to come up. Necrons all have ld 10, but they don't have the auto-regroup of space marines. Also, I think if your squad runs away, you don't get the reanimation rolls, but I am not 100% sure on that.
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2013-11-05, 01:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2012
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."
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2013-11-05, 11:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2012
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."
New list, hopefully formatted correctly. 20 points short, probably would just throw another Warrior or Immortal into a squad, or look at one of the Cryptek wargear options.
Spoiler
HQ
===
Nemesor Zahndrekh (185pt.)
-Royal Court:
--Harbinger of Destruction (35pt.)
--Harbinger of Despair with Veil of Darkness (60pt.)
--2 Harbingers of Destruction (70pt.)
Vargard Obyron (160pt.)
Destroyer Lord with Staff of Light, Sempiternal Weave, Resurrection Orb (170pt.)
Troops
===
8 Necron Warriors with a Night Scythe (204pt.)
8 Necron Warriors with a Night Scythe (204pt.)
8 Necron Warriors (104pt.)
8 Necron Immortals (136pt.)
8 Necron Immortals (136pt.)
Elites
===
5 Deathmarks (95pt.)
Fast attack
===
3 Necron Destroyers (120pt.)
2 Heavy Necron Destroyers (120pt.)
Heavy support
===
2 Annihilation Barges
Thoughts of my own:
1) Choosing Royal Court members is kind of a tough decision. Lords bring lots of nice support toys (MSS, Res Orbs, Warscythe if you need melee stuff), but I personally think the shooty variable offered by Crypteks seems better.
That said, while Despair is clearly best with Deathmarks, I was unsure about which others to bring. Transmog seems gimmicky but potentially powerful, Eternity is clearly kinda niche at best and crap if I'm not being polite. Destruction seems better against more elite armies (S8 AP2 shots being pretty good against big ****ers) whilst Storm seems better against mechanized forces and also brings a bit (though not much) assault deterrent. I opted for a mix of the last two, though I'm not sold on that decision.
2) How reliable are teleports? I have Veil of Darkness Despairtek with my Deathmarks and Obyron with one of my Immortals. The blue-sky intention that it can get the Deathmarks in place to snipe out their HfH target and then teleport into Rapid Fire range for still-good 4+ wounds on **** like MCs or high-tough characters later. Obyron would take his Immortals to a forward position where they can contest a point early and use Obyron as a melee deterrent/defense.
That said, I'm at least aware of scatter and mishaps (though I haven't played with Deep Strike in any of my games yet). Should I be expecting to footslog more, or can I rely on these as I think I can?
3) While I know Destroyers aren't the greatest unit in the codex, I think they're pretty cool models and like the idea of zipping around quickly with big guns. Giving them a Destro Lord with Orb and Weave feels like it also makes it a nice fast ball of decently resilient shooting.
(As a side note to this, I plan to make the squad 3/5 Heavy Destroyers instead of 2/5, but I need another Destroyer and a Heavy Upgrade kit >.>)
4) I'm still not entirely sure how to make properly-sized troop squads, though I guess that's mostly trial and error. I went with 5 of 9 since that fits the rules-of-thumb you guys mentioned, but obviously that's not a hard and fast thing I'm tied to.
Reasoning behind some of the choices: 2 flyers, 2 teleporting squads, and a Destroyer ball - all being Necrons and all therefore pretty resilient - give me the option to aggressively move for forward map control/contesting very quickly, but it's not necessary to do so against most armies. I do, however, like the ability to reposition and move quickly to respond to threats or to aggressively position and force responses.
I may later try to build a MC-focused list (since I think they're pretty cool), but one step at a time
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2013-11-05, 11:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2012
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- In the Playground, duh.
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2013-11-05, 11:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2012
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2013-11-05, 01:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."
If you don't have anything else in the third Heavy support slot, take a third annihilation barge. They're cheap, durable, and effective. Also, are those Immortals using Tesla carbines or Gauss (You definately want tesla on them, for the record).
1) Choosing Royal Court members is kind of a tough decision. Lords bring lots of nice support toys (MSS, Res Orbs, Warscythe if you need melee stuff), but I personally think the shooty variable offered by Crypteks seems better.
That said, while Despair is clearly best with Deathmarks, I was unsure about which others to bring. Transmog seems gimmicky but potentially powerful, Eternity is clearly kinda niche at best and crap if I'm not being polite. Destruction seems better against more elite armies (S8 AP2 shots being pretty good against big ****ers) whilst Storm seems better against mechanized forces and also brings a bit (though not much) assault deterrent. I opted for a mix of the last two, though I'm not sold on that decision.
2) How reliable are teleports? I have Veil of Darkness Despairtek with my Deathmarks and Obyron with one of my Immortals. The blue-sky intention that it can get the Deathmarks in place to snipe out their HfH target and then teleport into Rapid Fire range for still-good 4+ wounds on **** like MCs or high-tough characters later. Obyron would take his Immortals to a forward position where they can contest a point early and use Obyron as a melee deterrent/defense.
That said, I'm at least aware of scatter and mishaps (though I haven't played with Deep Strike in any of my games yet). Should I be expecting to footslog more, or can I rely on these as I think I can?
3) While I know Destroyers aren't the greatest unit in the codex, I think they're pretty cool models and like the idea of zipping around quickly with big guns. Giving them a Destro Lord with Orb and Weave feels like it also makes it a nice fast ball of decently resilient shooting.
Tangent: You know, what Destroyers really need is an Assault move. If they moved like Eldar jetbikes, they could move into 24" range, shoot a unit, then dance back behind cover. Or, you know, their 36" range back.
4) I'm still not entirely sure how to make properly-sized troop squads, though I guess that's mostly trial and error. I went with 5 of 9 since that fits the rules-of-thumb you guys mentioned, but obviously that's not a hard and fast thing I'm tied to.Steam ID: The Great Squark
3ds Friend Code: 4571-1588-1000
Currently Playing: Warhammer 40000, Hades, Stellaris, Warframe
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2013-11-05, 02:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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- Boston, MA
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."
No, you have it right. 9/13 including the Cryptek is what you're looking for. For armies with many HQs like this, I personally like to add a little "This is what I intend to put them with in most games" piece somewhere in the list. Generally at the very end, in a "Strategies" section. But, that could be just me.
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2013-11-05, 02:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."
While it's not technically kosher list writing, few people will actually care if you put Royal Court Members (Or Eldar Warlocks, or Wolf Guard Pack Leaders) in the entry of the unit you intend them to join.
Steam ID: The Great Squark
3ds Friend Code: 4571-1588-1000
Currently Playing: Warhammer 40000, Hades, Stellaris, Warframe
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2013-11-05, 04:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2012
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."
I wanted to put another Barge in there but a) I was shuffling points and didn't have enough without dropping another squad, and b) I only have 2 Barge models >.>
Destruction and Storm are generally the two big ones. Transmog are a niche choice that have lost most of their power now that footslogging assault is completely dead. Eternity is used solely for the re-roll. It's useful in Shock Troops or if you really, really need your warlord to survive. Despair's main strength is the AP 1 Flamer template that wounds a unit on a 2+ if they're with Deathmarks.
Not very. The only time I trust Deep Strike is when the unit is in a drop pod (which means mishaps are a thing of the past, plus the 6" disembark makes scattering less problematic. You might be able to pull it off you're very good with positioning, but if you don't know exactly what you're doing, it's too likely you'll scatter onto something or out of range (especially since the Abyssal staff is doing most of the damage in a unit of Deathmarks)
Both forms of teleport can also be used to make tactical retreats (as long as not in assault, for the Cryptek), so like I said, repositioning tool, or in this case retreat tool.
My other options are to obviously fill up the list with more Night Scythes and/or Arks (which I don't necessarily like from a personal standpoint) or to footslog to objectives (not all that horrible given innate toughness and assault weapons, but still).
The issue is that, well, Destroyers don't really have a clear role anymore. Jump infantry aren't nearly mobile enough, they're too fragile compared to bikes, and they don't put out enough firepower with their guns to survive return fire (Compare the old version, which had 3 S6 AP 4 shots at 36" range, and they were jetbikes, which meant they could turbo-boost). Plus, the Destroyer lord, really, really, really wants to be in a unit of wraiths. Necron HQ's don't do shooty. They're BS4 and their only gun has a 12" range. Plus, the warscythe, being S7 AP2 I2 is really, really tempting.
Tangent: You know, what Destroyers really need is an Assault move. If they moved like Eldar jetbikes, they could move into 24" range, shoot a unit, then dance back behind cover. Or, you know, their 36" range back.
As far as the DLord is concerned... yeah I dunno. I like having him in there to give them an Orb and a tough wall of 3 wounds and a 2+ save, but if they're scoot-and-shooting right he should never be in range to shoot his Staff, and it's not necessarily that great when he does.
I guess I could keep him in, but with a Warscythe and make him more of his standard CC threat, peeling off to challenge/assault when he wants. Or I could take him out and free up those points for something else. Decisions.
I really prefer warrior squads of 13 (or 12 plus court member). The extra numbers help a lot, and they come out to the same price as a squad of 9 Immortals.
As a new and completely unrelated question, what's the general LGS ruling for custom models? I was going to take the advice I got earlier and mod the Immortal + Lychguard boxes into Crypteks/Lords (a really, really large savings), there should be no issue with me doing that, right? `
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2013-11-05, 04:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."
As long as they're clearly identifiable, it shouldn't be an issue.
With regards to lords: It is a tough choice. Particularly for warriors, the 4+ Reanimation Protocols is huge, but Lords get expensive quickly (90 points for the three big upgrades (MSS, Res Orb, and Warscythe)). Sometimes what you really want from your troops is for them to just. not. die, and a squad of 12 warriors lead by a lord with a res orb does a very good job of that. Also, you can get a lot of milage out of doubling up royal court members if you can get two overlords into your list (Nemessor Zahndrekh and a Catacomb Command Barge, for instance). It's expensive, but also very useful, as you can have a Cryptek and a lord in one squad, or even an overlord with res orb and 2 Crypteks in one squad.Steam ID: The Great Squark
3ds Friend Code: 4571-1588-1000
Currently Playing: Warhammer 40000, Hades, Stellaris, Warframe
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2013-11-05, 08:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."
Heavy Destroyers have a use. But, with Necrons' ability to just Glance things to death, that role is really small. Heavy-Ds are for shooting at Monstrous Creatures. However, since any MC that is any good, Flies, Heavy-Ds are...
Okay. All that was just to arrive at the conclusion that Destroyers don't matter. ...What am I even doing?
When you don't want to play a Troop-centric army and you need your Troops to survive as long as possible. This is one of the reasons that Szeras has found a niche; In that on one of the off chances he gives a unit of Immortals T5 - and Szeras is cheap!
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2013-11-06, 10:15 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2012
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."
Hm, like I said my experience so far has been that Destroyers are pretty good, and no one at my LGS is a big flyer spammer, so I think I'll continue to use them.
I mean, if nothing else, they're slightly tougher Immortals with higher AP, and once upgraded a zoomy lascannon is nothing to sneeze at. They may be a bit expensive for their price point, but they're basically shoot-ier, tougher troops that can get where they want pretty damn quickly, often using this to approach and remove armored threats from the back line. Sure, they're nothing uniquely special like other options (especially compared to other armies), but having 2+, T5, and Reanimation (buffed with Orb) means you have a nice ball of speed and resilience with decent shooting.
Obviously I'm sure this isn't the best when it comes to a truly competitive scene, but like I said I really like the unit, and until they feel like a liability I think I'll keep 'em around.
On the other hand, lots of people have told me that Stalkers are damn good units (and yes, giving Twin Linking to your allies on an AV13/13/11 vehicle is pretty damn good), but both times I've fielded one it's gotten Pierced by a heavy weapon and exploded, turn one. Anecdotal, sure, but frustrating nonetheless, and why I'm loath to run one for a while.
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2013-11-06, 11:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."
How does this 1650 list look to you guys?
Spoiler
Red Hunters- Primary Detatchment
HQ
Chapter Master- 190
Storm Shield, Relic Blade, Bike
Troops
Bikes x5- 135
Grav-Gun x2
Bikes x5- 125
Meltagun x2
Heavy Support
Devastators x5- 150
Lascannon x4
Devastators x5- 150
Lascannon x4
Fire Raptor- 220
Grey Knights- Allied Detatchment
HQ
Coteaz- 100
Troops
Inquisitorial Henchmen x12- 84
Storm Bolters
Inquisitorial Henchmen x12- 84
Storm Bolters
Heavy Support
Purgation Knights x5- 180
Psycannon x4
Elites
Vindicare Assassin- 145
Fortification
Aegis Defense Line- 85
Icarus Lascannon
—
1648 points
The main idea is to have a bulkhead of shooting with reasonably shooty bubblewrap in the Henchmen while the Bikes cause trouble for whatever is most problematic and deliver the Chapter Master. I'd like to give the CM more gear (probably Burning Blade as the first upgrade, the shield is less worth it when you have Adamantium Will already) really.
Coteaz gives me drop pod defense and can Prescience my lascannons or the psycannons- Ignores Cover on the Purgation Squad with Astral Aim would be pretty cool as well. Being Red Hunters also means I don't need to spend points on dedicated anti-air, since if needed I can give both my lascannon teams Skyfire for a turn with their Chapter Tactics allowing my flyer to focus on shredding ground targets.Last edited by Gauntlet; 2013-11-06 at 11:52 AM.
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2013-11-06, 11:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."
For those of you coming into some money over the holidays;
Space Marine Strikeforce
Commander
Command Squad
Venerable Dreadnought
x2 Tactical Squads
Scouts with Rifles
Drop Pod
Razorback
Assault Squad
Not a bad little Force. The Dreadnought is crap, and so is the Razorback. But, both of those units are free. So...Yeah. Definitely a good choice if you aren't planning on playing White Scars.
Tau Empire Firebase Support Cadre
x6 Broadsides
Riptide
One of the Broadsides and the Riptide is free. Not bad at all. If Broadsides are what you're looking for, a free Riptide to come with them all is pretty neat.
Eldar Ghost Warriors
x3 Wraithguard/Wraithblades
x2 Wraithlords
Wraithknight
A free Wraithlord. That's it. Probably not worth buying the Force since the Wraithlords aren't great. Just buy the Wraithguard and 'knight individually, spend your extra money leftover on Spiritseers or something.
Astartes Storm Wing
x2 Stormtalons
Stormraven
Slight discount on the 'Raven. Probably useless for people who have been on the ball in the last 18 months and already picked up their Fliers. But, for everyone else...If you've got the cash, two of those Fliers are amazing and you've got a discount on the third.
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2013-11-07, 04:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2012
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."
^Speaking of which, decided to check out the Necron formations and packs to see if building up my forces could be made slightly easier.
Turns out none of them save money except the Battleforce, which saves a grand total of like $40 haha. I might actually pick up another Battleforce, while I have no plans to use a Doomsday Ark any time soon I think the model is pretty sweet, and it's a quick way to pick up more troops/Scarab bases.
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2013-11-07, 06:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."
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2013-11-07, 06:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2006
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- Indiana
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."
Yes. They are instead designed to save you the effort of clicking four or five times. Or less charitably (but likely more accurately) to get you to buy stuff you wouldn't have otherwise by buying a bundle that has the thing you want, possibly thinking it was cheaper without doing the math or possibly out of laziness.
"Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein
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2013-11-07, 06:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2010
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- Mt. Ebott
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."
Reposting this as it got swept up by Necrons. I'm not too worried about my "Bigass Army" getting hard countered due to my FLGS having a single Dark Eldar who barely plays (And is switching) and only 1 space marine player who uses Centurions with Grav Amps (And only uses 3 at that). Aside from that it's mainly a random assortment of marines and their equivelant with some Tau sprinkled in.
“I’m a Terrorist not an idiot.” - Me
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2013-11-07, 08:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
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- Boston, MA
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."
Well, I must say I love the concept. And that now I want to copy that idea, but also with a Hive Fleet Kaiju army to fight against it. Because that would be awesome.
Mechanically, I don't actually know enough about the big Tau/Dar stuff to make useful commentary. No one I know owns one (yet).
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2013-11-07, 08:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2010
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- Mt. Ebott
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."
I actually due plan on making Hive Fleet Kaiju with tons of MC's when the new Nid codex comes out (Especially if the rumors about the new Bigger Nug and Supplement dedicated to MC's is true). Except base them off of Hive Fleet Nidhoggr and have them be all molten and junk.
“I’m a Terrorist not an idiot.” - Me
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2013-11-08, 03:40 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2005
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- Zagreb
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."
Its cool, but I don't think the ghostglaives do anything for you. The other part of your list is all ranged, and Wraithknights are not a threat unless they move forward.
Personally I would go one with suncannon/shield and one vanilla, or both vanilla and use the points for another troop choice (jetbikes or kroot). I don't see the need to rush forward if you have such a heavy fire base.
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2013-11-08, 11:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
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- Oxford, England
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."
Last edited by Voidhawk; 2013-11-08 at 11:16 AM.
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2013-11-08, 11:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2012
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."
Tyranid Hive Guard box leak, new weapon and a plastic kit
Spoiler
Supposedly there's a new plastic Tyranid Warrior box as well, with a new, bigger model. The newest grapevine word is a December release for 'Nids, but of course rumors are rumors.Last edited by Requizen; 2013-11-08 at 11:18 AM.
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2013-11-08, 11:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2010
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- Mt. Ebott
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."
Darn! Well, Broadsides do fit the theme a bit considering they're the size of Dreadnoughts, but shucks that really bites. How should I equip the Broadsides/How many should I get?
As for the Swords, well that was more of a joke (The Pacific Rim sword) that got put into my list after a bit of thought. I wanted to equip them with the swords because they would be moving forward with the Wraithguards, but I guess now that I think about it the Wraithguard could just stay back as a deterrent and the Wraithknights could shoot things with D-Cannons.“I’m a Terrorist not an idiot.” - Me
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2013-11-08, 07:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."
Broadsides get equipped however they want. With the rise of horde-style armies, Missile Spam is quite in vogue. However, Broadsides are really good at killing vehicles which Tau are kind of bad at. It really, really depends on your meta, and only you know that.
4-6 Broadsides seems to work for a lot of people.
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2013-11-08, 07:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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2013-11-08, 08:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."
With magnets, obviously.thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar
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2013-11-08, 09:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2010
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."
“I’m a Terrorist not an idiot.” - Me
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2013-11-08, 11:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2013
- Gender
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIX: "Understand the gravity of the situation."
I would say go with the missiles on the broadsides, and stick with vanilla wraithknights. The wraithnights pack quite the anti-tank punch with two S10 AP1 shots each at long range, and the missiles on the broadsides synergize well with their secondary smart missiles for shooting lots of infantry or light vehicles.