Dresden Files II: Dealing Drugs To Tiny Faeries

[123456789blaaa]

Where can I find a compilation of all the short stories of the Dresdenverse?

AFAIK the DF Wikipedia entry has all of them.

EDIT: Assuming you meant compilation in the sense of a list of the short stories. If you meant a compilation of the short stories themselves than the Side Jobs book has all of them except for Curses, AAAA Wizardry, Even Hand, the Bigfoot short story trilogy, and Bombshells.

[Sinfonian]

Where can I find a compilation of all the short stories of the Dresdenverse?

The book Side Jobs has most of them, up to when it was published. I know there's others, but not when/if another compilation is planned.

Edit: The post above mine has a much better answer.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Wait what? Why? I mean, I can understand if you think the theory is terrible and nothing of value would have been lost if it had never existed. I feel that way about a ton of theories. However, what makes it so harmful that it needs to die? . Why should people of the DF fandom take the time out of their day to quash this theory?

Because its not a theory.

Its a glorified blank slate convenient to slap any old speculations on who's greatest virtue is "hah no one would think of that now would we they, how clever!" and is proud of how little it has to go on which is generally not a virtue.

Its the exact sort of things that makes fandoms just a will onto themselves. Preaching to the choirs that spout it back until subtlety it warps into an zealous unreality. Seen it a million times, its the chief failing of all fandom.

Compare who shot Harry. The obvious and well set up guy for it did. Now there was a twist on why, but so help me not many people were guessing it and we were succinctly denied anything to supect it.

That's like a microcosm of how big revelations go. The highly evident and well foreshadowed stuff most of us at least allowed for. Or the stuff nobody guessed because it wasn't there to guess.

For Cowl there simply aren't any good possibilities. Justin is just one for which there is a smidgeon evidence in the form of Bob. It derives directly from Cowl's own actions. There are other possibilities for that aplenty, but that just leaves us with essentially no evidence because nothing distinctive.

That's all well and good but it means no "theory" really can be built from Cowl's own actions. That means there is no answer to figure out, its just guessing. Then speculating into existence why "X could be Cowl", when it needs to be "Cowl is X because Cowl did [...]"

ALL the SC members would called away to fight the war. If he had still been alive, he would have been called out too and wouldn't have been able to go to Chicago. And no, there are no excuses he could make. Something that is so serious it requires the ENTIRE SC is too serious to allow for important muscle to not be there.

You're thinking too small here. You're talking about the coach having to show up for game time... I'm talking about the coach actively sabotaging the whole season.

Honestly, I think gaining the power to take out the entire WC by himself outweighs getting to sell Harry out. Besides, Eb, Martha, and LTW became close friends with Simon for a reason. In public, I don't think he's the type to do that sort of thing.

I latch on to "the type" here?

For someone we've never met and have no personality data on? That's the sort of convenient blank slate thinking I'm talking about.

Per the RPG, s Sidhe is a class of beings, not a separate Fae race. Cat Sidhe is a Malk Sidhe, the Erlking is a goblin Sidhe, Jenny Greenteeth is a nixie Sidhe, etc etc etc. Basically, a Sidhe is an exemplar of a particular Fae race.

Which raises an issue between the standard mostly human with white hair used to fill out scenes... and Cat Sidhe. Okay it can be used both ways, but Lily didn't gain green teeth or look anything particularly aquatic. Which can't be avoided under an exemplar example model for the title.

And that also makes the Winter-to-Summer issue worse.

So it doesn't help really with the overwriting the base fae type.

Aren't the Fomor fish dudes though?

Who are totally not from Innsmouth of course.

[Mauve Shirt]

I think Soras is Cowl because Soras and Cowl both rank similarly in crankiness.

[Soras Teva Gee]

I think Soras is Cowl because Soras and Cowl both rank similarly in crankiness.

My master plan has been revealed...

Dorosh!

Honestly its just because the more I hang around the more I see the same patterns repeated over and over again. Fandoms should drop the plural because they're all the same damn thing.

Also I used to run a political forum... it shows.

[123456789blaaa]

Because its not a theory.

Its a glorified blank slate convenient to slap any old speculations on who's greatest virtue is "hah no one would think of that now would we they, how clever!" and is proud of how little it has to go on which is generally not a virtue.

Its the exact sort of things that makes fandoms just a will onto themselves. Preaching to the choirs that spout it back until subtlety it warps into an zealous unreality. Seen it a million times, its the chief failing of all fandom.

Compare who shot Harry. The obvious and well set up guy for it did. Now there was a twist on why, but so help me not many people were guessing it and we were succinctly denied anything to supect it.

That's like a microcosm of how big revelations go. The highly evident and well foreshadowed stuff most of us at least allowed for. Or the stuff nobody guessed because it wasn't there to guess.

For Cowl there simply aren't any good possibilities. Justin is just one for which there is a smidgeon evidence in the form of Bob. It derives directly from Cowl's own actions. There are other possibilities for that aplenty, but that just leaves us with essentially no evidence because nothing distinctive.

That's all well and good but it means no "theory" really can be built from Cowl's own actions. That means there is no answer to figure out, its just guessing. Then speculating into existence why "X could be Cowl", when it needs to be "Cowl is X because Cowl did [...]"

Okay...so it's how the idea is talked about as a legitimate prediction of future events in the book that bothers you? Like, would you still think the idea needed to die if it was just brought up as a thought that's fun to speculate about (but is very unlikely to actually come true)?

I mean, as I said before, I don't believe Simon=Cowl anymore. I still like the idea and championed it previously (Simon=Cowl was the first theo-uh "thingy" I actually worked seriously on. While the originator is unknown, my name is credited in the Reference Topic). This is because it's lends itself quite well to speculation, it's fun to find all these little connections even if they won't amount to much.

You're thinking too small here. You're talking about the coach having to show up for game time... I'm talking about the coach actively sabotaging the whole season.

How? He's on the SC remember. The higher you go, the more and more restricted you get. Peabody could do stuff (very subtle stuff) because he was unnoticed. Simon is a public figure in a high office. That would be why he adopted the Cowl persona and went out instead of corroding the WC from within like Peabody.

I latch on to "the type" here?

For someone we've never met and have no personality data on? That's the sort of convenient blank slate thinking I'm talking about.

We can infer things even if we don't have direct data. Even if I had no personality data on Harry Dresden, just from meeting Michael and Sanya and Murphy (and knowing he's friends with them), I know he's probably not the type to sell someone out.

Which raises an issue between the standard mostly human with white hair used to fill out scenes... and Cat Sidhe. Okay it can be used both ways, but Lily didn't gain green teeth or look anything particularly aquatic. Which can't be avoided under an exemplar example model for the title.

And that also makes the Winter-to-Summer issue worse.

So it doesn't help really with the overwriting the base fae type.

Are the resulting Fae from Mantle "corruption" (not really the right word) Sidhe? I assumed they were a unique type of Faerie that are uniqe to the Mantle holders. So it doesn't matter if you're a human or a Changeling or a Malk before you get the Mantle. Once you give into it you turn into a Mantle!Faerie. I'm not at all sure though.

On the humans with white hair...I'm not sure. Redcap looked like that except for his cap. Perhaps all of the "stock" fae are actually different types that just aren't as different as like, a Rawhead and a Malk? Or maybe they're actually grown-up Little Folk?:

Q: How big will Toot get?
A: Depends on how much influence he has in the world. That’s how the sidhe gain their size and power. Mab wasn’t always as big as she is now.

Side note: this quote seems to imply that Mab was originally a Little Folk. This seems to contradict her being human (it is just an implication though so even if he originally meant that, he isn't bound to it).

Wait, am I arguing with you or not?

Who are totally not from Innsmouth of course.

Thought on the similarities between the quotes I posted? Am I just imagining things (note: if you say yes I'll probably start debating with you)?

My master plan has been revealed...

Dorosh!

Honestly its just because the more I hang around the more I see the same patterns repeated over and over again. Fandoms should drop the plural because they're all the same damn thing.

Also I used to run a political forum... it shows.

I understand what you mean. I suppose the difference here is that I don't really mind the patterns if they're not actually pushing the fandom towards death or permanent horribleness. Oh I'll get frustrated and argue against them but I don't think it's necessary to go out of your way to quash them (for a fandom that's mostly for fun like the DF one. For something like a political forum things may be different). If everybody on the DF boards started parroting and plugging Simon=Cowl as a legitimate prediction, I'd probably try and quash it. Since I mostly only see it pop up a few times every few months in a few scattered threads though...

[Soras Teva Gee]

Okay...so it's how the idea is talked about as a legitimate prediction of future events in the book that bothers you? Like, would you still think the idea needed to die if it was just brought up as a thought that's fun to speculate about (but is very unlikely to actually come true)?

I mean, as I said before, I don't believe Simon=Cowl anymore. I still like the idea and championed it previously (Simon=Cowl was the first theo-uh "thingy" I actually worked seriously on. While the originator is unknown, my name is credited in the Reference Topic). This is because it's lends itself quite well to speculation, it's fun to find all these little connections even if they won't amount to much.

For the first not to sound like a jerk but... well I know better. That makes a nice line for you (and you alone) maybe but does not actually say anything about reality in general. Not serious has a different rhythm to it that is well more apparent.

For the second again not to sound like a jerk but... I could literally not care less about your personal stake in this. You say you don't support it, but still are trying to patch holes in it... the latter is what I care about. That is also why I responded with "the theory needs to die" in the first place.

How? He's on the SC remember. The higher you go, the more and more restricted you get. Peabody could do stuff (very subtle stuff) because he was unnoticed. Simon is a public figure in a high office. That would be why he adopted the Cowl persona and went out instead of corroding the WC from within like Peabody.

Umm no. Access to authority is very different from exerting authority.

Your idea "can" be the story and there is a certain level of inertia in any system, but it is not an absolute universal axiom of all stories. Counterpoint any case where an authority figure in any franchise gets results. Or you know real life policy changes of all sorts. Nor does division into the council change this, watch reporting on bodies like the US Supreme Court for an example. 4-3 is more potent then even a 5-4 split.

So you cannot presume this.

We can infer things even if we don't have direct data. Even if I had no personality data on Harry Dresden, just from meeting Michael and Sanya and Murphy (and knowing he's friends with them), I know he's probably not the type to sell someone out.

On the basis of Michael, Sanya, and Murphy... I can get a range of Harry, Charity, and Molly.

And for your conclusion I would need to give the first triad the assumption they can can judge that sort of quality with high accuracy and only associate with that quality. And that requires quite a bit of knowledge about them. I'm not sure I can assert that, especially with (twice divorced) Murphy who has made bad calls on people. So I can't grant that without knowing anything about Harry.

Inferring needs to have very good support. And it needs to be rock solid to have a place in theory and not be pure speculation.

Are the resulting Fae from Mantle "corruption" (not really the right word) Sidhe? I assumed they were a unique type of Faerie that are uniqe to the Mantle holders. So it doesn't matter if you're a human or a Changeling or a Malk before you get the Mantle. Once you give into it you turn into a Mantle!Faerie. I'm not at all sure though.

Yes and the question in this line is whether or not Molly is still human or not as Winter Lady. Or perhaps more pertinently whether she can still lie or not. And the suggestion was made that because Lily was a Changeling the Mantle represented her making her Choice to become fae. Thus Lily not being particularly nixie-ish is pertinent, and by extension that Molly is "probably" a full on fairy now.

Since you brought it up though, I'd suggest that given that Mab elected Molly and Sarissa as her vessel options... I'd imagine something like a Malk can't get the Lady Mantle, or Mab would have lots and lots of options. Track record would suggest the Lady Mantle transforms human (ladies) and doesn't care about mere details like whatever else you are. Though not knowing the details its impossible to confirm.

Side note: this quote seems to imply that Mab was originally a Little Folk. This seems to contradict her being human (it is just an implication though so even if he originally meant that, he isn't bound to it).

Wait, am I arguing with you or not?

In this case I suspect not... and as noted Mab said "mortal" so she was at least as human as a Changeling at some point. (Though heck could be some other Scion type for all we know!)

Thought on the similarities between the quotes I posted? Am I just imagining things (note: if you say yes I'll probably start debating with you)?

Honestly I didn't even follow that, I just say Deep Ones instead of Fomor inside my head all the time. More/less since Side Jobs and Marcone's short story... which is infuriatingly NOT in Side Jobs.

I understand what you mean. I suppose the difference here is that I don't really mind the patterns if they're not actually pushing the fandom towards death or permanent horribleness.

I hold the view that the mindset always is pushing towards that single destination, just its not always past a saturation point. The older and hoarier a fandom get though well... that's really another rant about what fandoms have become a zombie horde in need of a good tank driving over them.

[Thrawn183]

D'OH, you're right about the rage thing obviously, I was thinking specifically about Harry's question to her at the end of Cold days.

But... this is the internet.

You've doomed us all!

[123456789blaaa]

Only replying to the first two quotes as before. Going to reply to non-debate quotes tomorrow (I'm pressed for time but really wanted to answer the first two).

For the first not to sound like a jerk but... well I know better. That makes a nice line for you (and you alone) maybe but does not actually say anything about reality in general. Not serious has a different rhythm to it that is well more apparent.

I do not understand what you are trying to say here .

For the second again not to sound like a jerk but... I could literally not care less about your personal stake in this. You say you don't support it, but still are trying to patch holes in it... the latter is what I care about. That is also why I responded with "the theory needs to die" in the first place.

I believe when I critiqued the Justin=Cowl theory you attempted to patch holes in it as well. Are you a supporter of the theory?

As I said before this entire debate is framed in terms of "Justin=Cowl" vs "Simon=Cowl". I'm aware that all of the "patching's" are not solid. Even the fact that so many patching's are needed shows why it's not a good theory. I'm only doing so because I believe the "patching's" I produce will be better than the patching's you produce for Justin=Cowl. We're measuring the plausibility against each other.

If we weren't then I wouldn't even bother.

[Mauve Shirt]

The Count = Simon, 'cause Simon totes a vampire (expert), Soras = Cowl (see previous explanation) and Justin is dead.

[Cikomyr]

Can I have a rundown of these theories so I get some idea what you are nerdbitching about?

[Soras Teva Gee]

I do not understand what you are trying to say here .

I do not grant and in fact deny the premise that this is merely idle speculation in isolation, which is something different. Cowl is secretly Abe Lincoln would be non-serious.

I believe when I critiqued the Justin=Cowl theory you attempted to patch holes in it as well. Are you a supporter of the theory?

The core of Justin = Cowl is simply and just this:

1. Harry had Bob.
2. Bob was Kemmlers.
3. Justin is the only one who would know 1 and 2. ('cept Harry)
4. Cowl knew 1 and 2, given point 3 therefore...

Now there are many possibilities so this would hardly stand up in court.

Still one must either show from the text why these points are wrong... or must show an even greater amount of similarly "hard evidence" that identifies Cowl as someone else.

And their really isn't anyone else. Elaine may know Bob for example ergo point 1, but doesn't interact with him in either book. While Bob knew her, he also knew Molly as an observer. We have even less to suggest someone blabbed to her about point 2. We can't extend her both but there's some not-implausibility there. Everyone else you need speculation to even plausibly get them in a position to know.

That leaves establishing Cowl as doing something identifying that can be tied to someone else.

And frankly I only recall patching in terms of Archangel that Justin makes an ample candidate for that affair from the little we know and other stuff outside Dead Beat. That's all in the strictest sense... irrelevant speculation since it all didn't actually involve Cowl. Cowl is an easy bogeyman to put behind all mysterious events whomever he is. Given that and his prescence in books 3 and 9 makes him a reasonable foreshadowing for a series Big Bad, presuming there is one. We will see more of him.

None of that really helps ID him though.

Though in similar "soft evidence" terms Justin is rather conspicuous in his mentions but not presence. This far in and we only get two small scenes, neither of is big fight between the two. And Harry admits to fuzzy memories in the time frame. And Justin was messing around with Outsiders? Now that's conspicuous loose ends awaiting explanation. We should see more of him.

Tying those loose ends together is just applying Occam. Though in addition to simplicity can make for some interesting book ends to Harry's career in addition to the drama of the reveal by maxing the impact on Harry.

As I said before this entire debate is framed in terms of "Justin=Cowl" vs "Simon=Cowl".

And I've framed it that there are no other suspects. Simon is almost literally interchangeable with any half-mentioned background detail persons.

There's nothing to his case, because there's seriously nothing to anyone's. The entire notion of painting him as a suspect is false premise mixed with confirmation bias.

If I HAD to pick a distant number 2 it would be Cristos from sheer lack of options or maybe Kemmler himself trolling like a boss.

[Avilan the Grey]

It occurs to me that I am desperately hoping Cowl is a new character, since it will annoy a ton of people who are fighting for the "obvious truth" about who he most be.

Also, I cannot understand why he "must" be a character we have already met...

[Feytalist]

Also, I cannot understand why he "must" be a character we have already met...

Well. We have already met him. He's Cowl

But I agree with this, frankly. He's got a name. He's got a personality and an agenda, although that last is admittedly fairly nebulous. He's a complete character. He doesn't need to be another complete character as well.

[Forum Explorer]

It occurs to me that I am desperately hoping Cowl is a new character, since it will annoy a ton of people who are fighting for the "obvious truth" about who he most be.

Also, I cannot understand why he "must" be a character we have already met...

If anything I'd guess that he was another Warden, perhaps an old friend on Justin. Which makes sense considering they both abandoned the Council. I'd even go so far as to argue that they were actually working together in the 'Black Council'. Or left the White Council at around the same time.

[Mauve Shirt]

Some people find wild speculation fun. I mean, what do you guys want to do in these threads otherwise? Between books, world and plot speculation is all we've got!

[datalaughing]

Some people find wild speculation fun. I mean, what do you guys want to do in these threads otherwise? Between books, world and plot speculation is all we've got!

Agreed, without wild, out of the box, completely unsupported theories, there's nothing to break up the monotony. There's a reason I'd rather be in a Dresden Files thread than a politics/current events thread.

And now to attack all theories at the same time, any argument made based on personality (like "Simon was probably a decent guy") or knowledge (like "how else did Cowl know about Bob?") was invalidated by Cold Days. If Nemesis has infected someone, then their personality beforehand is irrelevant, because they're not in the driver's seat anymore. If Nemesis has infected someone, then they have a source of information from outside our reality and its limits. There's no telling what Nemesis, through its agents is capable of knowing. If Justin was taken by Nemesis, then the knowledge of Bob, his history, and what he can do could be universal to all of Nemesis' servants. That's not even accounting for the fact that Mab knew Harry had Bob (or at least Cold Days implies this very heavily), and if she knew that, then it was obviously possible for it to be known.

[Cikomyr]

Do you think it possible that Justin was actually a decent, albeit hard, person before he turned evil? After all, if I remember right, we ONLY have Harry's perspective on the events that led him to beleive Justin is a bad evil wizzzard.

[Avilan the Grey]

Do you think it possible that Justin was actually a decent, albeit hard, person before he turned evil? After all, if I remember right, we ONLY have Harry's perspective on the events that led him to beleive Justin is a bad evil wizzzard.

Well all I know is that the reason he picked Harry AND Elaine was because he was planning to build an army. Of starborn. To fight either Nemesis specifically or all outsiders.

That gives me the idea that he was not Palpatine from the start.

[Cikomyr]

Well all I know is that the reason he picked Harry AND Elaine was because he was planning to build an army. Of starborn. To fight either Nemesis specifically or all outsiders.

That gives me the idea that he was not Palpatine from the start.

Maybe he never became Evilz in the first place? Maybe he suspected Harry was under the Adversary's control and wanted to check him up?

[Avilan the Grey]

Maybe he never became Evilz in the first place? Maybe he suspected Harry was under the Adversary's control and wanted to check him up?

Wouldn't surprise me. Epic tragedy: Both thinks the other is tainted, tries to kill eachother.

[Cikomyr]

Wouldn't surprise me. Epic tragedy: Both thinks the other is tainted, tries to kill eachother.

Probably The Enemy's greatest MO

[Rakaydos]

Well all I know is that the reason he picked Harry AND Elaine was because he was planning to build an army. Of starborn. To fight either Nemesis specifically or all outsiders.

That gives me the idea that he was not Palpatine from the start.

On the other hand, consider this- Given you're messing around with outsiders, and given that you're not personally suicidal- wouldnt you want to make sure your apprentices could wield the whip hand over the invincible outsiders (in your name) as well as you could?

If you just set the outsiders loose, all you would get is Empty Night, and noone (here) wants that. But an army of Starborn would be able to leash outsiders, bind them to their will, and thus make them do useful work that doesnt end up destroying existance.

[Mauve Shirt]

Two teenagers aren't exactly an army. Were they going to make a huge amount of starborn babies?

[Soras Teva Gee]

It occurs to me that I am desperately hoping Cowl is a new character, since it will annoy a ton of people who are fighting for the "obvious truth" about who he most be.

Also, I cannot understand why he "must" be a character we have already met...

He doesn't have to be at all.

Generally I'd say speaking the audience isn't given the clues by the writer you need to solve a mystery. Revelations tend to be of new material, not something you could be reasonably expect to arrive at.

We've already seen this with Ghost Story in particular. The missing scene from Changes is between chapters with no indication of its presence. I particularly miss that we didn't get those little words.

If Nemesis has infected someone, then their personality beforehand is irrelevant, because they're not in the driver's seat anymore. If Nemesis has infected someone, then they have a source of information from outside our reality and its limits. There's no telling what Nemesis, through its agents is capable of knowing.

Its rather premature for that conclusion. We cannot quite establish what Nemesis actually means. Cat Sith apparently became a weak sock-puppet, but Maeve by all indication was exerting some of her own will and still at full power. Lea (arguably) took time to succumb and the result was a split personality during Mab's epic healing.

We as yet cannot judge the extent of Nemesis or its particular rules all that well.

I infer that infection is not particularly easy nor results in a hive mind like unity. Oh maybe it can break you, but with downsides and probably a fair bit of effort. Otherwise well... it wouldn't need schemes to make chaos, just spread like any good virus and do nothing until it just has overwhelming force.

There's some limiting factor but what we don't know yet.

[BRC]

Considering that Nemesis allowed Maeve to tell direct lies, its influence is powerful enough to, at least in some ways, overwhelm the base nature of the infected individual.

That said, I don't think it neccessarily changes their personality any more than it has to.

The goal of Nemesis seems to be the spread of chaos and disruption of Order, with the Outsiders being the nastiest footsoldiers.
As I see it, Nemesis' corruption is insidious. Maeve schemed and lied because Maeve was, like most Faeries, a schemer at heart. Aurora was kind at heart, when corrupted that kindness became a desire to end the cycle at all costs using the Stone table.

That said, I would argue that while the Outsiders have some form of Hive mind, corrupted individuals do not. Considering what we now know about Winter's role as guardian of the outer gates, Aurora's plan, while it would have sucked for everybody on earth, would only have strengthened Winter. If we assume Nemesis' goal is to get the Outsiders through the outer gates, Aurora's plan was counterproductive except as a generic disruption of the established order. I think the Corruption just puts the idea that changing EVERYTHING is a good idea into your head.

[Anderlith]

Like I've said before. Cowl may not be a person we have reasonably met before in the books. But I believe there has to be a more direct connection between Cowl & Harry than just an evil guy trying to do dirty deeds (done dirty cheap)

Now that does not mean the Harry has to have known Cowl. It just means that, for the sake of interesting plot & tropes, they have to have some kind of connection.

This is why I believe that Martha Liberty is Kumori. I don't know who Cowl is or any good evidence as to who he is. But I will speculate the heck out of Martha being Kumori.

[Avilan the Grey]

Two teenagers aren't exactly an army. Were they going to make a huge amount of starborn babies?

I assume he was constantly looking for more. Starborn are rare, after all.

[Avilan the Grey]

Hey... WMA:

So... Skin Game.

Spoiler

Show

Nicky and Harry team up to steal something from Hades' super-safe, ordered by Mab. With a name like that, my bet is on the Golden Fleece.

[Lamech]

Cowl is an artificially created human. A Homonculi! Not only that he is a time traveling wizard! Who created him? A time traveling Wizard obviously! Know any time traveling evil wizards? YES! COWL! Cowl went back in time and created himself.

I'll make a diagram
o---<--<---
vaaaaaaaaa^
|aaaaaaaaa|
vaaaaaaaaa|
o-->Cowl---o
|
v
Cowl (older)