The most unbalanced monsters for each CR up to 20 (or so)?

[ArendK]

Go with my personal favorite, and nominate the bleakborn for my favorite.

I watched an overpowered party of 8 level 8 gestalt characters run in terror from 3 unmodified ones.

For the rest of the campaign, regardless of whatever evil monstrosities I sent their way, the frozen zombies were always the most terrifying to them.

[Venger]

That sounds like the version in the Canomorph section.

May recommend Woodland Fairy as a CR 3? IT has 7th level druid casting, Lesser Globe of Invulnerability + Magic Circle Against Evil as a Free Action, and its SLA's include Glitter Dust and Invisibility. OH, and fly 60ft (perfect).

that's exactly what happened. I didn't think to check whether they appeared twice in the same book (because why would they?) they are indeed cr 4 and have a racial 2d6 SA. sorry for the confusion.

[Sith_Happens]

May recommend Woodland Fairy as a CR 3? IT has 7th level druid casting, Lesser Globe of Invulnerability + Magic Circle Against Evil as a Free Action, and its SLA's include Glitter Dust and Invisibility. OH, and fly 60ft (perfect).

WAT. Which book was someone really incompetent enough to put this in? And what is it about 3rd level that apparently makes monster designers think "Okay, the PCs have been alive long enough?"

[3WhiteFox3]

WAT. Which book was someone really incompetent enough to put this in? And what is it about 3rd level that apparently makes monster designers think "Okay, the PCs have been alive long enough?"

I did some research using the Fey Index and I can't find an official monster called Woodland Fairy. I did find a CR 3 Fey with that name from Kingdoms of Kalimar: Dangerous Denizens. It's a third party book.

Looking through the official Fey creatures I've found a couple that I'd like to nominate.

Grig - CR 1

Pros:

• DR 5/Cold Iron
• 40' (Poor) Flight
• High AC - 18
• High Hide and Move Silently skill mods (+18 and +10/+15 respectively)
• Awesome SLAs Including Entangle and Invisibility (3/day, 9th caster level).
• High attack values (+6) with a ranged weapon
• 17 SR, enough to make SR: Yes spells almost useless at first level.

Cons:

• Low HP (2)
• Low Fort Save (+1)
• Low Damage (Longbow with 1d4-3 damage)

They are fragile and have weak damage, however, Entangle as an SLA (it has no components and can be cast without hindrance while hidden) coupled with flight, invisibility, stupidly high SR, high AC and good stealth make this monster a surprisingly nasty ambush encounter. Played to the hilt, I could definitely see one of these things TPKing a first level party.



Pixie (W/Irresistible Dance) Cr 5

Pros:

• Continous Greater Invisibility
• Awesome SLAs including Entangle, Lesser Confusion, Dispel Magic and Permanent Image (1/day, CL 8)
• Irresistable Dance (An 8th level spell 1/day, CL 8)
• Sleep Arrows (no damage, Fort DC 15 or fall asleep)
• 60' (Good) flight
• DR 10/Cold Iron
• SR 15

Cons:

• Low HP (3)
• Low Damage (Longbow 1d6-2)
• Low Fort Save
• 1 HD

Like most Fey, these aren't terrible when you look at their stats in isolation. After all 3 HP is awful at first level, they do crap damage and are vulnerable to fort saves and anything targeting low HD creatures. However, they have layers and layers of options. Greater Invisibility, Flight, SR, DR. They have answers to pretty much any way that a party might be able to deal with them.

Invisibility means that unless the party gets very creative with flour or happens to have See Invisibility prepared, they are screwed from the get go. Dispel Magic with a CL of 8 means that even if the Wizard does try to use it's buffs to even the playing field, they are just one standard action away from being gone. Flight interacts with both of these very well as does the DR. Even though the SR is not great by any means, it's a further limitation on how the party can try to deal with them.

Their SLAs are fantastic, entangle works as amazing battlefield control, lesser confusion is a very nice debuff. Irresistable Dance takes the cake with a no save, just suck for 1d4+1 rounds (even better when paired up with entangle to give it an effective reflex DC of 24) Permanent Image is also just begging to be used in all sorts of creative ways. Their Sleep Arrows give them something to do once their SLAs are used up allowing them to still be capable of menacing a party.

Intelligently played Pixies definitely use up far more than 1/4 of a parties resources in each fight.

[ZamielVanWeber]

I did some research using the Fey Index and I can't find an official monster called Woodland Fairy. I did find a CR 3 Fey with that name from Kingdoms of Kalimar: Dangerous Denizens. It's a third party book.

No it is not. Dangerous Denizens is one of the 1st party Kingdoms of Kalamar Books. It is very obscure but 1st party regardless (it has the official DnD mark and the official Wizards product mark).

Note that Dragon Magazine Compendium uses the same markings, as does Dragonlance.

[Venger]

D&D's own humble flappy bird, the corrolax, is grossly under CRed at CR 1/2.

dr 5/ cold iron, SR 12, and color spray usable 1/round as a su ability make him quite dangerous, especially in tandem with another CR 1/2 who can deal damage (such as an orc)

[TiaC]

If you are accepting templates, I recommend just advancing the monster. For many types, CR increases at +1/4HD. This means that save DCs can be pumped through the roof. e.g. CR 19 beholders have DC30 eye rays.

Or, there is the magic of non-associated class levels. Storm Giant cleric 18 is CR 22.

[Sith_Happens]

They are fragile and have weak damage, however, Entangle as an SLA (it has no components and can be cast without hindrance while hidden) coupled with flight, invisibility, stupidly high SR, high AC and good stealth make this monster a surprisingly nasty ambush encounter. Played to the hilt, I could definitely see one of these things TPKing a first level party.

Only problem I see is that at one damage per hit it'll take a Grig 30-40 rounds to TPK a "standard" Fighter-Rogue-Wizard-Cleric party, and there's going to be a few natural 20's long before that point.

Pixie (W/Irresistible Dance) Cr 5

Pixies, on the other hand, negate or at least heavily mitigate that problem in a few different ways.

Also, don't forget about the Danceless-but-otherwise-identical version at CR 4. Or the total-amnesia-until-you-get-a-Heal-spell arrows.

[Socksy]

If we combine the Grig with, say, an orc or two, though...
Those first-to-second-levels are dead.

[Meth In a Mine]

And what is it about 3rd level that apparently makes monster designers think "Okay, the PCs have been alive long enough?"

May I sig that?

[Silva Stormrage]

If you are accepting templates, I recommend just advancing the monster. For many types, CR increases at +1/4HD. This means that save DCs can be pumped through the roof. e.g. CR 19 beholders have DC30 eye rays.

Or, there is the magic of non-associated class levels. Storm Giant cleric 18 is CR 22.

Ya but I think that just adds waaaay too many options. I mean pretty much all undead, aberrations or other 4 Hd for +1 cr can be devastating. A cr 9 ghast can have a dc 31 paralyze attack and have 182 hp normally. Its absurd.

Lets just focus on the published monsters, maybe add a few like sylph that gain spell casting with hd but lets not count class levels and the like.

[Isamu Dyson]

Lets just focus on the published monsters, maybe add a few like sylph that gain spell casting with hd but lets not count class levels and the like.

It's time you lads delve more into third-party material .

[Sith_Happens]

May I sig that?

I would be honored.

[Ischtan]

For CR 18 I vote Yuan-Ti Anathema. Casts Blasphemy on CL 20

but still topped by the CR 12 Blood Fiend which casts blasphemy at CL 18. That outright kills any level 12 adventurer group...

The fiend folio was probably written by the same trainee as the Monster Manual 2 as it seems.

[Socksy]

Links you all over here, where there are arguments for Shadow, Purple Dragon, Adamantine Horror, and many other things.

[The Viscount]

The Nereid at CR 4 is pretty dangerous due to the fact that if you fail the DC 16 save vs drowning there is no way to stop it.

[Silva Stormrage]

The Nereid at CR 4 is pretty dangerous due to the fact that if you fail the DC 16 save vs drowning there is no way to stop it.

Stormwrack made it so you can stop drowning with a heal check.

[Illven]

Are we including errata fixes in this list?

[Inevitability]

Has the stirge been mentioned already?
I mean, a hide check of +14, +7 attack bonus on a TOUCH ATTACK, flight, darkvision, constitution damage that will most likely kick in during its second turn and only 1/2 CR?

A few stirges have the ability to force an adventuring party to either rest for a few days, or push on with less HP, worse fort saves, some reduced class abilties...

Really, these beasties can completely wreck a party if used properly. (That is, send a few of them at the party, then put some poisonous stuff in the next room.)

[NoACWarrior]

Are we still allowing templates?

If so Were Battle Titan (MM3) Ogre - in Hybrid form something around 500-600 hp for a CR9.

If someone found a way to make the 1 HD medium giant large you could get a CR7 with around 450-500 hp.


Boneclaws (MM3) as I remember are pretty rough at CR5 - 20 ft reach +2 turn resistance, skele DR, Intelligent undead. Their major weakness is poor BA.

[The Viscount]

Stormwrack made it so you can stop drowning with a heal check.

I cannot find this text in Stormwrack, but I'm probably just failing my Spot check. Can you give a page number?

Has the stirge been mentioned already?
I mean, a hide check of +14, +7 attack bonus on a TOUCH ATTACK, flight, darkvision, constitution damage that will most likely kick in during its second turn and only 1/2 CR?

A few stirges have the ability to force an adventuring party to either rest for a few days, or push on with less HP, worse fort saves, some reduced class abilties...

Really, these beasties can completely wreck a party if used properly. (That is, send a few of them at the party, then put some poisonous stuff in the next room.)

While the stirge is pretty nasty, its danger is somewhat mitigated by it only having a grapple bonus of +1, so you have a good chance of escaping the grapple and thus the blood drain.

[Inevitability]

While the stirge is pretty nasty, its danger is somewhat mitigated by it only having a grapple bonus of +1, so you have a good chance of escaping the grapple and thus the blood drain.

A good chance if you're a fighter... But not if you're a wizard. The stirges will just fly over the fighter, straight towards the wizard. (whose grapple check will be considerably lower)

Of course, with 1 int, the stirges may not be smart enough to figure this out themselves... So just have a NPC druid tell them to.

[TypoNinja]

A good chance if you're a fighter... But not if you're a wizard. The stirges will just fly over the fighter, straight towards the wizard. (whose grapple check will be considerably lower)

Of course, with 1 int, the stirges may not be smart enough to figure this out themselves... So just have a NPC druid tell them to.

Naaa +1 is pretty feeble. Chances are even the caster has a 0 grapple modifier at first level, giving him nearly even odds on the die roll. Even that's the poor option though, since you are still allowed to strike it, and it has an AC of 12 and 5HP. Swatting that little bugger like the bug it is takes little to no effort.

[Silva Stormrage]

I cannot find this text in Stormwrack, but I'm probably just failing my Spot check. Can you give a page number?

Huh… I tried to find it and couldn't either… Maybe rules compendium O.o? I tried google search and just heard people reference it.

[Ksheep]

Huh… I tried to find it and couldn't either… Maybe rules compendium O.o? I tried google search and just heard people reference it.

I'm not seeing anything under "Drowning", "Suffocation", or "Healing" in either Stormwrack or Rules Compendium that fixes the "you can't stop drowning" that a RAW reading of the DMG has.

[Firechanter]

*bump*
I haven't scoured the entire thread to see if it's been named but rejected, but I nominate the

Stirge - SRD - CR 1/2

This thing has a +7 Touch attack, so it will reliably attach. Then you have one round to remove it or it will start dealing up to 4 points of Con Damage.

Sure, they go down easily, but Con Damage is no joke for lowlevel characters. Without a level 3+ Cleric they can't heal it at all, but must rest for days. Even a Cleric will have to blow his level 2 slots for Lesser Restore.

A swarm of Stirges won't _kill_ a party. But it will weaken it considerably, and if there's any time pressure in the game, the PCs will have to continue in their weakened state and can't do anything about it.

[TypoNinja]

*bump*
I haven't scoured the entire thread to see if it's been named but rejected, but I nominate the

Stirge - SRD - CR 1/2

This thing has a +7 Touch attack, so it will reliably attach. Then you have one round to remove it or it will start dealing up to 4 points of Con Damage.

Sure, they go down easily, but Con Damage is no joke for lowlevel characters. Without a level 3+ Cleric they can't heal it at all, but must rest for days. Even a Cleric will have to blow his level 2 slots for Lesser Restore.

A swarm of Stirges won't _kill_ a party. But it will weaken it considerably, and if there's any time pressure in the game, the PCs will have to continue in their weakened state and can't do anything about it.

This was brought up before, Stirges are fairly threatening, but they lack any longevity of their own. Con damage is scary, but the things die so fast and easy.

At 5 HP they just don't have staying power. They are not vermin but magical beast, so are vulnerable to everybody's favorite, color spray. Even with their +12 to grapple while attached, their starting size of tiny (and 3 str) makes their grapple a whole +1, the party wizard has good odds off pulling one off, never mind a beatstick type. An AC of 12 while attached means is dead easy to hit with your trusty starting weapon and a fighter with a longsword is going to one shot it. Its reach of zero means it has to enter your square to attack thus provoking. And finally they don't do the con damage until they start a round attached, so you have a full turn to get it off.

[Silva Stormrage]

I'm not seeing anything under "Drowning", "Suffocation", or "Healing" in either Stormwrack or Rules Compendium that fixes the "you can't stop drowning" that a RAW reading of the DMG has.

Now that this has been bumped. I finally found that ruling, it is in Lords of Madness of all places, page 25 when dealing with a glyph that fills a creature's lung's with normal water. A dc 15 heal check gets the water out.

[ManicOppressive]

I'd like to give a shoutout to Shadows, another in the line of "We're level THREE for god's sake, we don't HAVE magic weapons!"