Warhammer and WH40K RPGs II: Burning Witches, Heretics, and Fate

[TimeWizard]

Remember that Rogue Traders operate in the very slim margin of 40K's "special exceptions apply" category. Also, I highly doubt if many people are going to recognize a Fire Caste Exile in full armor... ok I know that's not in hte rules but I want to play one so bad....

Sorry kinda tangented there. Anyway, RT's get away with xeno stuff, just don't expect people to like it

[The Glyphstone]

Remember that Rogue Traders operate in the very slim margin of 40K's "special exceptions apply" category. Also, I highly doubt if many people are going to recognize a Fire Caste Exile in full armor... ok I know that's not in hte rules but I want to play one so bad....

Sorry kinda tangented there. Anyway, RT's get away with xeno stuff, just don't expect people to like it

They get away with it mainly by not flaunting, it though. A Rogue Trader with a pulse pistol sidearm and an Eldar stardrive on his ship isn't a huge deal. A Rogue Trader who walks into a bar with an Ork and a Dark Eldar is a huge deal, effectively rubbing his special status in the faces of the authorities.

[LordBlades]

Some xenos are also easier to hide than others. I don't expect a kroot or dark eldar in power armor for example(they can wear the ones made for humans without penalties) to stand out as a xeno, especially to people that have never seen a human in power armor their whole life (which is the majority of imperial population).

Orks on the other hand....

[Darthteej]

So next week my Deathwatch group meets back after a long hiatus(Christmas break), which means tomorrow I'm sitting down and drawing up a bunch of actual stats. I'm hoping to give them a more open-ended challenge-sparking a full scale rebellion on a Tau held world, with a limited store of ammunition and supplies. Included among the obstacles is a mind-controlled space marine, a long buried dragon(flying hive tyrant), battlesuits, and a full air-supported Fire caste cadre. Emperor and Primarchs know this system has it's flaws, but the ability to throw my players against the craziest stuff the universe has to offer with the full knowledge that they can beat it is what makes this system worth it.

[Lanlaorn]

Xenos in 40k are not the big fluff/social problem that everyone is making them out to be. 40k has this feudal society where power comes from above and a Warrant of Trade is pretty damn high up there, some are ancient documents so old they were signed by the Emperor himself.

Basically, Rogue Traders can do whatever they like and what fool would be stupid enough to dare interfere with his property? So yes, people could be freaked out and yes, I think it openly says in the Sanctioned Xenos sidebar that most people would essentially assume you are the Rogue Trader's slave... but that assumption confers protection.

I think Xenos in a RT party only enrich the social situation by giving the NPCs someone to react to in any number of ways. It's really no different from having the horrifying Mechanicus robo-man and terrifying Astra Telepathica mind-wizard by your side.

In the Rogue Trader game I played in, as we started getting up in ranks I had found online that one of the developers had written out a conversion chart between Psy Rating and the Greek letter scale used in the lore. So, according to that I was a Beta level psyker (incredibly high up the chain) and according to the fluff, Imperial medical boards believe it's impossible for me to still be sane!

Everyone in this game will be over the top outlandish, it's definitely not a problem.

[Cheesegear]

I think Xenos in a RT party only enrich the social situation by giving the NPCs someone to react to in any number of ways. It's really no different from having the horrifying Mechanicus robo-man and terrifying Astra Telepathica mind-wizard by your side.

Well, actually it is. A Tech Priest and Psyker are part of a regulated government body answerable to those powers that be, as well as being Imperial Citizens. A Xeno, is neither of those things.

I had found online that one of the developers had written out a conversion chart between Psy Rating and the Greek letter scale used in the lore.

Link please. I've been looking for something relatively official just like that.

[The Glyphstone]

Well, actually it is. A Tech Priest and Psyker are part of a regulated government body answerable to those powers that be, as well as being Imperial Citizens. A Xeno, is neither of those things.



Link please. I've been looking for something relatively official just like that.

Yup. All Sanctioning means is that you won't get arrested and shot by the Imperial authorities the instant they see you chumming around with the xeno. You'll miss out on contracts and business deals from people who don't trust you or your xenos. The offers you get in return will probably be from people even you're hesitant to deal with. You'll get hostile treatment from common citizens (and official ones). You'll have zealous port authority officials trumping up reasons to insist your ship is searched/scanned for contraband. Emperor-fearing maniacs may just try to kill you or your 'slave' on the streets. You may find yourself being stalked (or openly approached) by the Ordos Xenos, which is likely a bad thing in the end regardless of if they're friendly (i.e., radical) about the whole issue.

You can have a Xeno in your group, that's why they have rules. But unless you are intentionally muting or ignoring the setting, it is not like having an Elf or Half-Orc in your D&D group, and a far cry from even the most cybered-out Techpriest or Astropath. People will be creeped out/repelled by the latter, but on different levels for different reasons.

[Grim Portent]

The easiest way to have a xeno in your group is to have a Trubeorn Dark Eldar who's been allowed to take disguise as an elite advance and gotten gear + implants to boost disguise.

Hell, if you run scrutiny as a skill you have to actively choose to do then you can throw on some face paint and a conspicuous hood and it won't be a problem until someone has a reason to look closely at the character.

[Rikandur Azebol]

Put Ork in a frilly dress, give it very thick makeup. Claim it's your mother-in-law.
Kill first few disbelievers. Give Xeno a voxbox with really annoying voice of real mother-in-law recorded. Install meltabomb in said box, have the trigger with you.

Warn Ork that you'll blow him up if he uses voxbox recorder too often in your presence.

Make dark eldar wear seventeen century clothes and apopriate makeup and speak Gothic like pervert. Nobody will notice the difference.

[Cheesegear]

The easiest way to have a xeno in your group is to have a Trubeorn Dark Eldar who's been allowed to take disguise as an elite advance and gotten gear + implants to boost disguise.

And if anyone comments on your height and gaunt features, just say that you're Void-Born! Brilliant! I'm using this.

[Pesimismrocks]

Is there any way to create tech as an explorator? Like a pistol, any bionics or maybe some sort of servitor. Or can it only be found and purchased?

[Destro_Yersul]

Craft skills are your friends. There are some pretty detailed rules in the back of the Dark Heresy Inquisitor's Handbook for building your own stuff.

Inventing stuff is Heresy, but there's nothing wrong with constructing to existing designs. Of course, nothing is really STOPPING you from inventing stuff...

[Rikandur Azebol]

Hereteks that wish to not be burned in holy promethium should have plenty excuses for their developements:

- Its that obscure blueprint I once saw ...

- It works, for the glory of Omnissiah ! Must be blessing of Machine Spirit.

etc

[Lord Raziere]

Hereteks that wish to not be burned in holy promethium should have plenty excuses for their developements:

- Its that obscure blueprint I once saw ...

- It works, for the glory of Omnissiah ! Must be blessing of Machine Spirit.

etc

"where is this blueprint?"
"Oh I saw before it got burned in this fire, thankfully my photographic memory cybernetics allowed me to remember every detail."

"The Omnissiah blessed me with a vision and told me of secrets long forgotten..."

but for the best deceptions, become an archeotech expert and master of forgery, particularly of older writings. now start forging "evidence" that you "discovered archeotech" from [Insert Date Here] that is similar to archeotech already discovered. not only are you making what looks like archeotech, your making it seem plausible that people could have made it at the time! which holds up to closer scrutiny.

[Grim Portent]

Of course there's always the option of going full heretek. You know, righteous indignation, excessive pride, rampant paranoia and overzealous persecution of naysayers.

Example monologue that may ensue:

'Justify my work! Why how dare you question the sanctity of my actions! I work for the furtherance of knowledge! All who oppose my research must be exterminated! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!'

*Warning, all plans suggested by Grim Portent may induce Heresy. Please consult your chirurgeon before following suggested plan. Plans not suitable for children, puritans, pregnant women, nursing mothers, donkeys, people named 'Steven' or the elderly. Do not exceed recommended dosage.*

[Cheesegear]

Of course there's always the option of going full heretek. You know, righteous indignation, excessive pride, rampant paranoia and overzealous persecution of naysayers.

Back in my day going 'full heretek' meant inserting the Genestealer Helix into Mutants and then dosing up everyone up to the eyeballs with Spook and Slaught to make an army of Xeno Mutant Psyker Berserkers, all devoutly loyal to me, the Patriarch. Young hereteks these days just have no class.

[Boci]

Is there any rule of thumb on how to handle re-attempts of failed tests? I'm guessing you can retry an attempt to climbs something, but maybe not to tech use a door open. Are we given any guidelines in the rules for this? I didn't see any, but i could have missed them.

[Destro_Yersul]

There's no standard rule of thumb, but I think it usually denotes in the skill description whether or not you get retries.

[shadow_archmagi]

There's no standard rule of thumb, but I think it usually denotes in the skill description whether or not you get retries.

It also goes without saying that the circumstances dictate whether or not you get retries. Generally speaking, the rule of thumb is:

1. Does failure make it impossible to try again? (Climbing walls does not destroy them, but crashing your hoverbike may complicate further drive tests. Likewise, you generally can't have your surgeon perform open heart surgery a second time, because he has a bad feeling about his first go)

2. If so, then you have your answer.

3. If not, is there a meaningful repercussion or cost to failure? (If they were trying to build a gun, their time and resources are gone. If they were trying to climb a wall, it probably didn't use up time or valuable resources)

4. If failure has no consequences, maybe you shouldn't have had them roll to begin with. Just say they climb over the safe, easy wall, and be done with it.

5. If failure has consequences, those happen, but the party is then free to try again. (Buy some fresh gunmetal and start over)

*Warning, all plans suggested by Grim Portent may induce Heresy. Please consult your chirurgeon before following suggested plan. Plans not suitable for children, puritans, pregnant women, nursing mothers, donkeys, people named 'Steven' or the elderly. Do not exceed recommended dosage.*

Ah, Steve. I always knew he would be the weak link.

[Cheesegear]

"Stop screwin' around!"
A lot of skill checks take time. Time is an exhaustible resource. So, you can't open the door, try again? Or are bad guys on your tail and if you keep trying to open the door, is that valuable time that could be used setting up defenses or simply running down the other corridor that doesn't have the locked door? It's locked, there must be loot behind it, right?

"No."
Particularly on Int-based tests. Unless you have research books and reference texts at your disposal, if you don't pass a Lore check, maybe you just don't know the answer?

"So much for that."
The thing you're using is consumed during the Skill Test, pass or fail. You can't try again unless you get more resources.

[Wraith]

A useful houserule that we brought across from a WFRP campaign is that if you are making a second attempt at a skill-based task, the difficulty goes up by 10% until it becomes 100% impossible.

For the players this is good because they have a frame of reference as to why they are unable to (eg) lockpick a door. It's actually more complicated than they first thought - their nerves are beginning to fray, they're getting frustrated, their tools are reaching the limit of their usefulness - while at the same time they're given a legitimate way to complete a vital task that, all things considered, they should have a reasonably easy chance at completing and no logical reason as to why they can't make a second attempt. (Baring in mind CG's reasoning about being chased and such).

It's also good for the GM as you don't have to sit and have the "But why can't I hit the door with my hammer for the 7th time?" argument every time a player gets it into their head that they *should* be able to do something that you would rather they move on from.

The only thing that you really have to think about is what 100% difficulty represents. Using the above example, this would be when they've ham-fistedly tinkered with a lock so much that they have broken the mechanism and it won't open at all, key or not.

[Dead_Jester]

Inventing stuff is Heresy, but there's nothing wrong with constructing to existing designs. Of course, nothing is really STOPPING you from inventing stuff...

Inventing stuff isn't heresy in itself; it's simply not encouraged by the Mechanicus, who, to maintain the technological cartel, ruthlessly bear down on independent development. New technologies are still accepted, and the priesthood above the Magos level is expected to actively pursue the advancement of science, whether by experimentation or rediscovery; new stuff just has to go through a more or less long trial period before being accepted for regular production. If someone outside the Mechanicus discovers something interesting first, well, he might just end up in an accident and his discoveries could pop up in a few centuries after having been "rediscovered".

Now if you really want tasty tech heresy, you start doing stuff involving AI's, the Warp, daemonbinding or Xeno-hybrids. And than you combine them, creating such niceties as the Ork-Tyrannid superhybrid (hyper-adaptability + ridiculous latent psychic powers + incredible reproduction system), which you than implant with artificial minds just so they can become corrupted by Chaos (nids being normally anathema to the Warp, and Orks being too though and simple creatures to be attractive corruption material), further increasing their combat potential. The fact that the resulting creature is probably insane thrice over, and definitely not stable enough to be considered useful for anything but complete annihilation of a planet's biomass, is irrelevant; it's an amazing killing machine, and you are definitely bringing home the Heretek of the Millennia award for your efforts. Now if you could only find a way to plate it with Necron necrodermis without either the AI or chaos corrupted fleshy bits annihilating themselves, and somehow manage to not die in a horrible lab accident, you'd have a real contender for Worst Idea Ever.

[Boci]

It also goes without saying that the circumstances dictate whether or not you get retries. Generally speaking, the rule of thumb is:

1. Does failure make it impossible to try again? (Climbing walls does not destroy them, but crashing your hoverbike may complicate further drive tests. Likewise, you generally can't have your surgeon perform open heart surgery a second time, because he has a bad feeling about his first go)

2. If so, then you have your answer.

3. If not, is there a meaningful repercussion or cost to failure? (If they were trying to build a gun, their time and resources are gone. If they were trying to climb a wall, it probably didn't use up time or valuable resources)

4. If failure has no consequences, maybe you shouldn't have had them roll to begin with. Just say they climb over the safe, easy wall, and be done with it.

5. If failure has consequences, those happen, but the party is then free to try again. (Buy some fresh gunmetal and start over)

What about a ship augury? Assuming they aren't in combat should I just give it to them?
What about the information finding powers of a navigator, since they have no chance of PP?

A useful houserule that we brought across from a WFRP campaign is that if you are making a second attempt at a skill-based task, the difficulty goes up by 10% until it becomes 100% impossible.

For the players this is good because they have a frame of reference as to why they are unable to (eg) lockpick a door. It's actually more complicated than they first thought - their nerves are beginning to fray, they're getting frustrated, their tools are reaching the limit of their usefulness - while at the same time they're given a legitimate way to complete a vital task that, all things considered, they should have a reasonably easy chance at completing and no logical reason as to why they can't make a second attempt. (Baring in mind CG's reasoning about being chased and such).

It's also good for the GM as you don't have to sit and have the "But why can't I hit the door with my hammer for the 7th time?" argument every time a player gets it into their head that they *should* be able to do something that you would rather they move on from.

The only thing that you really have to think about is what 100% difficulty represents. Using the above example, this would be when they've ham-fistedly tinkered with a lock so much that they have broken the mechanism and it won't open at all, key or not.

Interesting house rule. I will try and use it, see how it works out.

[Rikandur Azebol]

@Dead Jester, since when Tyranids are Chaos-incompatible ? They are alive, so Grandpa Nurgle loves them. They change, so it was all planned by Tzeentech.

I believe the Chaos's deal with them is similar to Orks. Simple creatures without delicious parts of Warp presence the Warp things grew to like nibbling. Plus 'nids seem to have their own version of Astronomican that is equally unpleasant for daemons.

With Orks i kinda know why Khorne screams yuck and runs away from them. Fighting is equivalent of sex for these creatures. Dark Prince doesn't like them since they don't have aesthetic sense asides from "Bigga is Betta!" and their complete asexuality. Their society is both chaotic and suprisingly stable so Tzeentech isn't interested in them. Last of wich they don't even have any hope or equivalent being so content with their lot that even Eldar noticed.

Grandpa Nurgle loves them, but they don't fear death so it's one sided affection.

AI's are cool thing. Transforming whole Forge World into Unicron was goal of one of my buddies when we played Rogue Trader ... things went out of whack when his "rediscovered AI" proven to be daemon infused. We lost a ship, dang it.

[Grim Portent]

Tyranids don't have souls, and can evolve immunity to all but the greatest of Nurgle's contagions. The new 'Nid codex goes into more detail but the bottom line is that neither side has anything the other wants. And the Hive Mind can choke daemons link to the warp energies they require.

Orks are corruptible, they're just incredibly resistant to chaos. One of the older Ork codices mentioned Stormboyz that worshipped Khorne, and the current Daemon codex has a bunch of Orks being kept as glorified pets to fight Khorne's minions in an eternal war in his domain of the warp. Though any Chaos aligned Orks get driven out by the others for not worshipping Gork 'n' Mork.

[shadow_archmagi]

Chaos, Orks

I was under the impression that the Orks are resistant to Khorne's influence simply because they already have a pair of war gods.

[Rikandur Azebol]

@Grim, in WH40k soul is equal to Warp shadow of the mind, as far as I understood. 'Nids have to have something like this, I believe. The Overmind thing.

And true about Orks, why go for greenskins when humans just beg you to eat them ? As far as I'm aware, and as funny as it sounds, Khorne is too sophisticated for Orks.

@Shadow_Archmagi, it is simpler. Orks live lives of violence. Khorne embodies rage. And while some orks rage, most of them are super happy when fighting. Wrong emotional cocktail for Khorne to like it.

[Grim Portent]

@Grim, in WH40k soul is equal to Warp shadow of the mind, as far as I understood. 'Nids have to have something like this, I believe. The Overmind thing.

The nids explicitly don't have souls. There's a depiction of nids vs daemons in the tyranid codex for tabletop and the daemons are described as sensing no souls and being enraged by it.

The Hive Mind and Daemons present wound up viewing each other as rivals rather than prey, as the daemons couldn't derive sustenance from the tyranids due to lack of souls and emotions, while daemon flesh kills any tyranid that eats it.

[Rikandur Azebol]

So ... 'nids do have emotions but not those that Warp entities can utilize, ok. And it's no wonder that eating daemonic substances is harmful. If little warp energy can do crazy with body of a cultist then concentrated form of it, in the shape of daemon's bits, is all that much lethal.

[bluntpencil]

It annoys me that 'Nids don't have souls, as they are a Psychic race. Psykers are explicitly those with brighter souls... Nulls, Blanks (and Tau) have less bright souls, or none at all... and now Tyranids... who have Psychic powers... have no souls.

If they have no souls, surely they shouldn't suffer Perils of the Warp, right?