Warhammer 40k Fluff Thread VIII: "Khorne's Most Favourite Thread EVER"

[Wraith]

So far we know six of the eight original Grey Knights Knights-Errant. And one - maybe two - of the four original Inquisitors.

James Swallow has gone on record stating that Nathaniel Garro will not become a Grey Knight, which makes me wonder if the Knights-Errant are not actually going to be Grey Knights but will be the guys responsible for choosing those who will. Only two of them are Psykers, after all.

And, who are the 'Inquisitors' please? I thought I was up to date on that part of the HH series, it looks like I've missed some.

[Cheesegear]

James Swallow has gone on record stating that Nathaniel Garro will not become a Grey Knight, which makes me wonder if the Knights-Errant are not actually going to be Grey Knights but will be the guys responsible for choosing those who will. Only two of them are Psykers, after all.

Here? Swallow definitely acknowledges Garro and the Super Best Friends are connected to the Grey Knights. And, from the Codex we know that the Grey Knights were founded by eight Grand Masters - whatever that means.

Cerebrus also got tainted by Chaos when he died, and was also given telepathy by one of the Watchers in the Dark when he went to Caliban - although we don't know if his TP is permanent.

It's also confirmed in Pandorax that at least Rubio was a Grey Knight, and Cerebrus and Qruze might have been, too. No word on the others. As Abbadon drops a huge hint that he knows all the original Grand Masters.

And, who are the 'Inquisitors' please? I thought I was up to date on that part of the HH series, it looks like I've missed some.

Super-Ultimate-Fan-Speculation-By-Everyone says

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Keeler. She has to be.

And maybe Sinderman, and potentially Mersadie Oliton.

I also hope Massak makes a return. You can't just refuse a Mission From God and then not have that bite you in the arse.

[Wraith]

Here? Swallow definitely acknowledges Garro and the Super Best Friends are connected to the Grey Knights. And, from the Codex we know that the Grey Knights were founded by eight Grand Masters - whatever that means.

No - apparently in an interview in the US version of White Dwarf (Dec. 2012) he says that Garro wouldn't be a Grey Knight. I don't know any more details than that, since a) not in the US and b) I already have the internet, so if I want to look at pictures of GW models I don't have to pay a silly amount of money for it.

Super-Ultimate-Fan-Speculation-By-Everyone says

Ah, I know them. I'm just not so good at connecting the dots Thanks!

[TimeWizard]

So I was playing Black Crusade yesterday and my character broke a Marshall's (Terminator Space Marine) "Crux Terminatus" which was giving him a forcefield type shield. The GM said that those can't be replaced and even that act is a big win for Chaos, but I can't find anything that corroborates that: Is he right? Do those things give shields, and can they be "made" anymore?

[shadow_archmagi]

So I was playing Black Crusade yesterday and my character broke a Marshall's (Terminator Space Marine) "Crux Terminatus" which was giving him a forcefield type shield. The GM said that those can't be replaced and even that act is a big win for Chaos, but I can't find anything that corroborates that: Is he right? Do those things give shields, and can they be "made" anymore?

Well, yes and no.

By default, it's just a medal, with no special properties. On the other hand, the Imperium does really enjoy making bling-shaped forcefields, so there's no reason you couldn't have a badge of honor that also granted a forcefield (Inquisitors often have protective rosettes, and space marine captains frequently get iron halos or aquilas that generate force fields too). Force fields can still be made though, although not all forge worlds remember how.

On the OTHER hand, apparently some terminator honor badges contain shards of the Emperor's own power armor, and nobody knows which ones, so breaking any of them is a big moral victory.

[Dead_Jester]

So I was playing Black Crusade yesterday and my character broke a Marshall's (Terminator Space Marine) "Crux Terminatus" which was giving him a forcefield type shield. The GM said that those can't be replaced and even that act is a big win for Chaos, but I can't find anything that corroborates that: Is he right? Do those things give shields, and can they be "made" anymore?

Whether of not the Crux Termimatus does act as the source of the terminator armor power field or not is debatable (since Chaos termies also get the invulnerable, as do things like TDA wearing Inquisitors); however, in any case, Terminator armor is mostly pictured as having both a power field and being just that though to warrant an invulnerable save (or, for you early edition vets out there, a 3+ save on 2d6). Hilariously enough, this also means that, on average, 1/3 of any group of terminators will survive anything up to and including cyclonic torpedo exterminatus dropped on their stubby little heads.

As for them being replaceable, the actual nature of the manufacturing of TDA is a somewhat contested point; some sources state that all Crux contain a small shard of the Emperor's own armor, while others only state that the termie captains have some. In any case, the Crux with shards of grandpa's armor, if any, are irreplaceable, and old suits of TDA are chapter relics (either because of the association with the big E, or because they served in the Crusade/HH); however, since new Chapters constantly appear, and suits are routinely lost, it is nearly certain that more can be made, with the caveat that it is probably a long, highly ritualized process known by a handful of artificers, making obtaining new suits very difficult. However, this may not be true of all patterns; Indomitus patterns is still probably made, but the rarer Saturnine or Tartaros patterns have possibly been lost, and the ancient Cataphractii pattern, as well as the proprietary patterns of unique Legion units, are probably lost to war and time.

[TimeWizard]

It had a shard of the golden armor in it, which we took and offered to Tzeentch before 5/6ths of us died. (it was a one shot)

[lord_khaine]

Whether of not the Crux Termimatus does act as the source of the terminator armor power field or not is debatable (since Chaos termies also get the invulnerable, as do things like TDA wearing Inquisitors); however, in any case, Terminator armor is mostly pictured as having both a power field and being just that though to warrant an invulnerable save (or, for you early edition vets out there, a 3+ save on 2d6). Hilariously enough, this also means that, on average, 1/3 of any group of terminators will survive anything up to and including cyclonic torpedo exterminatus dropped on their stubby little heads.

haha.. and for additional fun the mark of Khorne turning that armor safe into a 2+ on 2d6, causing what might be the most idiotproof protection in the game short of an actual tank :P

[Callistarius]

Super-Ultimate-Fan-Speculation-By-Everyone says

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Keeler. She has to be.

And maybe Sinderman, and potentially Mersadie Oliton.

I also hope Massak makes a return. You can't just refuse a Mission From God and then not have that bite you in the arse.

I always thought, particularly from the quote of Malcador at the end of Flight of the Eisenstein (relating to needing "men and women of inquisitive nature, hunters who might seek the witch, the traitor, the mutant, the xenos" spoken to Garro, Xruze & Amandera Kendell of the Sisters of Silence) that they would become the first three inquisitors, with some forshadowing of the Ordos:
Nathaniel Garro - very clear forshadowing of the Ordo Malleus
Iacton Xruze - Ordo Xenos
Amandera Kendell - Ordo Hereticus

... but internet theories are even more common than the old dime a dozen.

[Cheesegear]

I always thought, particularly from the quote of Malcador at the end of Flight of the Eisenstein [...]
Nathaniel Garro - very clear forshadowing of the Ordo Malleus
Iacton Xruze - Ordo Xenos
Amandera Kendell - Ordo Hereticus

Unfortunately, as Garro and Qruze's story doesn't end at the end of Eisenstein, that theory has long been shot out of the water.

[Cheesegear]

What are some stereotypical names for Xenos races? You know how during the wars, the Allied soldiers had names for the other side? All Russians are named 'Boris', and Germans are 'Hans' and 'Fritz', for example.

What do Imperial Guard call their enemies?

[Drasius]

"Xeno scum", if they know what's good for them!

Alternately;

"Argh! Argh! It's eating my face! OhEmperorpleasemakeitstoppleaseplea..."

Bitey the 'Nid perhaps?

Poncey the Eldar?

[Zorg]

Greenies for Orks, Coneheads for Eldar, Weeaboos for Tau

[Wraith]

Mutants are known by a huge range of names, though the most common ones I see are 'Freaks' and 'Twists'.

Several of these names are shared with Psykers, particularly 'Freak'. They are also known individually as 'Witches' and 'Wyrds/Weirds' (I've seen it spelled both ways).

Tyranids have been called 'Bugs', but usually only by people like Catachans, who are a) badass enough to justify deriding such horrific creatures and b) not as formal and stiff acting as Marines tend to be.

Eldar are almost universally 'Witches'. Very, very few Imperial sources make any differentiation between them and Dark Eldar.

Orks are 'Greens' or, more commonly, 'Greenskins'. I think I have once, and only once, seen someone refer to Orks as "Johnny Greenskin", which might have been one particularly stupid character in a Ciaphas Cain novel, though I wouldn't swear to it.

Everything else tends to be either too scary to make fun of, too classified to be talked about openly, or addressed collectively by the name of their most famous commander - The Orks at Armaggeddon are simply spoken of as 'Ghazghull', and the Black Crusades as 'Abaddon' as though they personally control each and every action undertaken.

I certainly haven't come across any particularly blasè names used for 40k races, though I suspect that this is to do with the lack of contemporary names used in the setting. "Tommy the Brit" or "Boris the Russian" are 'normal' names that we use freely, and it'd probably detract from the setting to have "Zaraphial the Heretic" and "Agamemnon XI the Necron"

[LeSwordfish]

Tau are occasionally Blueies. (sp).

[Cheesegear]

Tyranids have been called 'Bugs', but usually only by people like Catachans, who are a) badass enough to justify deriding such horrific creatures and b) not as formal and stiff acting as Marines tend to be.

Catachans are also badass enough to survive being able to tell stories about 'Bugs'.

Eldar are almost universally 'Witches'. Very, very few Imperial sources make any differentiation between them and Dark Eldar.

Eldar 'Raiders' are a different sort to regular Eldar. Whether they're 'Dark' or Corsairs though, seems to be up for debate.

seen someone refer to Orks as "Johnny Greenskin", which might have been one particularly stupid character in a Ciaphas Cain novel

Essentially, I'm looking to yell the 40K equivalent of 'Charlies in the trees!' which, while a name based on the phonetic alphabet, was the slang the soldiers used for every fabricated person of that particular region.

Everything else tends to be either too scary to make fun of

The horrors of war dictate that soldiers will always make light of stuff or go crazy. In 40K, that should only be turned up to 11. Both ways.


Also; Doomrider's back! (my only hesitation in getting this is that Josh Reynolds primarily writes WHFB novels...Not 40K ones. Maybe if I have some spare cash at the end of this pay cycle...)

[Zorg]

Also; Doomrider's back! (my only hesitation in getting this is that Josh Reynolds primarily writes WHFB novels...Not 40K ones. Maybe if I have some spare cash at the end of this pay cycle...)

If that's not a proper version of Ballad of Doomrider I will be very disappointed

[GolemsVoice]

So I finished "Prospero Burns" and I really don't know what to say. Here's a few things I've learned:

• Space Wolves are like wolves in space. They kill people violently. Because wolves are predators.
• Space Wolves are also vikings. In SPACE!
• They are the coolest legion ever. Their only flaw is that they're too good at killing! (See wolves...)
• They are like totally misunderstood. They've got a deep culture and all that!
• If you want to understand Space Wolves, you have to BECOME Space Wolves
• In a book called Prospero Burns, Prospero only shows up on the last 60 pages of a 430 page book

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All in all, it was strange. It didn't really have a plot aside from "look at all these Space Wolves!!". The event the book is named after only happens rather by the way (because of course Space Wolves destroy anything, they are THAT cool), and the rest we spent with, as I said, looking at Space Wolves and unravelling the personal trauma of the narrator. If you like SW, read it, if you don't really care about them, there are better books to buy. It's not a BAD book, but it just doesn't really add anything to the series, aside from insights into Space Wolves culture.

[Drasius]

So I finished "Prospero Burns" and I really don't know what to say. Here's a few things I've learned:

• Space Wolves are like wolves in space. They kill people violently. Because wolves are predators.
• Space Wolves are also vikings. In SPACE!
• They are the coolest legion ever. Their only flaw is that they're too good at killing! (See wolves...)
• They are like totally misunderstood. They've got a deep culture and all that!
• If you want to understand Space Wolves, you have to BECOME Space Wolves
• In a book called Prospero Burns, Prospero only shows up on the last 60 pages of a 430 page book

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All in all, it was strange. It didn't really have a plot aside from "look at all these Space Wolves!!". The event the book is named after only happens rather by the way (because of course Space Wolves destroy anything, they are THAT cool), and the rest we spent with, as I said, looking at Space Wolves and unravelling the personal trauma of the narrator. If you like SW, read it, if you don't really care about them, there are better books to buy. It's not a BAD book, but it just doesn't really add anything to the series, aside from insights into Space Wolves culture.

I think you mean to say that spess woofs are filthy heretics and traitors.

- Prior form for wiping out other legions heavily implied (2nd and 18th)

- Takes orders from Horus while he was a traitor (to go have a play date with the thousand sons instead of escorting them back like Emps wanted)

- Routinely tell the Inquisition to go jump in the lake

- Has many dirty mutants in their ranks (there are no wolves on Fenris)

- Has special nuh-uh, psychic-powers-totally-don't-work-on-us-because-we're-special powers (just like Kharn)

When the space wolves have killed more chapters and legions on the Imperial side than the entirity of the Imperium's enemies put together, something is a bit fishy.

Sounds like Khorne followers to me.

[Wraith]

I found A Thousand Sons to be a better book in virtually every way, to be honest, for exactly the reasons to said. In fact, I've found it to be one of the better in the HH series altogether, come to think of it.

Having said that, the difference between the really GOOD HH books and the really bad ones are quite stark. A Few of my personal highlights:

Galaxy In Flames/Fulgrim

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Galaxy in Flames was a very good look at a key event in the series that I previously didn't know about - the Istvaan V massacre seems to get all the attention, while Istvaan III kinda happens in the background.

Fulgrim tells the same story but form the point of view of the Emperor's Children, and WOW but does it get tedious. Graham McNeil is capable of some very, very good writing - I already mentioned A Thousand Sons - but Fulgrim just goes on and on and on.... And his vocabulary is very stunted. If someone removed the phrases "punched the air", "Perfection" and "inhuman [cry] from his throat" from the book, it'd lose a huge number of pages....

Descent of Angels

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The Horus Heresy, set in the 31st millenium after mankind has conquered the stars, regressed, and then set out to reconquer them using enormous, gene-modified superhuman warriors in futuristic battle armour. I know, let's have a story about a teenage boy who wants to become a feudalistic knight on some backwater!

3/4ths of the book is nothing at all to do with the Heresy, makes Lion El'Johnson look like a complete wuss (he struggles to fight a single Chaos Spawn, for Gods' sake!) and stars a whiny 15 year old (who, incidentally, is illiterate and yet manages to use words like 'existential' in normal conversation with other illiterate 'Knights') pining for a starring role in a Harry Potter-esque anime series, who then gets turned into a Space Marine and continues to talk in exactly the same tone, pitch and even topic as a whiny 15 year old boy. I actually gave up and stopped listening at this point, I just couldn't care about what was happening.

Interesting note: Descent of Angels was written by Mitchel Scanlon, who was responsible for the dully depressing/depressingly dull 15 Hours. They're the only 2 books that he's written for Black Library, and it wouldn't surprise me if there weren't going to be more.....

The Outcast Dead

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Graham McNeil redeems himself - a very interesting tale looking at some very understated areas of Imperial life, that of the Astropaths, the Custodes and even the Thunder Warriors. Made me genuinely wish that someone would write a book that told the story of the Unification Wars in full.

[Kris Strife]

- Routinely tell the Inquisition to go jump in the lake

Most Space Marine chapters tell the Inquisition to get bent.

Frankly, most groups would probably like to, but the Space Marines are about the only group with enough clout to get away with it.

[hamishspence]

The Outcast Dead

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Graham McNeill redeems himself - a very interesting tale looking at some very understated areas of Imperial life, that of the Astropaths, the Custodes and even the Thunder Warriors. Made me genuinely wish that someone would write a book that told the story of the Unification Wars in full.

There have been a few complaints about The Outcast Dead- mostly about timeline issues.

In that, Magnus's message to Terra arrives around the time of the battle of Istvann V, wreaking havoc all across the Imperial Palace.

But Magnus in all previous material- including McNeill novels- was established as sending the message before Horus was revealed to be a traitor. Before the massacre of Istvann III, in fact. And the combination of sheer damage (causing warp problems with the Gate the Golden Throne was attached to, leading to the Emperor spending the whole Heresy working with the Custodes & Sisters of Silence to repel daemonic invasion), and the reveal of Magnus's use of sorcery, were the two factors that convinced him to send Leman Russ to "bring Magnus to justice"

I'm told a later short story (possibly an ebook?) by McNeill resolves this (I think by having the Emperor contain some of the damage for months, with it only breaking out fully some time later, during The Outcast Dead.

That's not the way it seemed it was being written from my reading of The Outcast Dead, though.

[Wraith]

I kind of glossed over that, to be honest - much of The Thousand Sons occurs over an uncertain time frame (I don't think it's ever fully described how long the Sons stay isolated on Prospero, and one can hand-wave away a lot by remembering that 'warp travel is subjective' and such) and that Kai spends an uncertain amount of time drugged and hallucinating... I didn't really try to add it up, so I can forgive a bit of weirdness in that respect.

To be honest, my biggest problem with The Outcast Dead is that it makes the Emperor appear to be a MASSIVE jerk, and all-but-justifies Horus wanting to replace him, were it not for the whole 'pawn of Chaos' thing.

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Babu Dakhal was a Thunder Warrior who was discarded and left to die as soon as his usefulness was at an end - EXACTLY as Horus suspects that the Emperor will do to the Primarchs. This book makes Horus' fear of being made redundant and, potentially, being disposed of very, very real, rather than a mere insecurity on Horus' part.

Similarly, regard the chess game between the Emperor and Kai. The Emperor goes on at length about a valuable, but necessary, sacrifice being needed to achieve ultimate victory; then consider the imagery used to describe the pieces and their relevance to the plot as we know it must unfurl.

The Emperor knows that Sanguinius is going to die at the hands of Horus, and he has every intention of letting him because it will allow his own ultimate victory. He considers Sanguinious - his most beautiful, most noble son - to be an expendable pawn. He even goes on to say to Kai that the future is not a predetermined thing and that visions are never certain, which makes him appear monstrously callous because he obviously has his own source of forseeing but never seems to use it for anything other than his own immediate gain.
He knows that he will win, even though it will cost him his sons, but that seems to be enough to stop him from looking for another path.

[Zorg]

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I thought outcast Dead made the Emperor far more human - as he says you can't be all powerful and all knowing and by trying to be both he's screwed up and now he's got to do the best he can. I mean yes, he discarded the Thunder Warriors, but they're not exactly stable or useful outside World Eaters on nails level destruction, and the Primarchs (and even Astartes when they try) are all good at other things besides killing.

Also in regards to letting Sanguinius die, with the Heresy the Emperor has a choice: let all his loyal sons die for the most part, turn himself into something he loathes and create an empire that goes against everything he stands for - or let chaos win and extinguish mankind. The way I see it he's not doing what he wants to do, but what he has to do to win. And if he strays from that path he can't be certain of victory, and I took Outcast Dead (particularly the all powerful line) as him admitting he's not as tough as he seems to be so just has to do what he can now.

It's basically coming back to the Dune storyline. Paul used his prescience to see the Golden Path that would allow humanity to be assured of its survival in the future for all time. However it required so much monstrous, inhuman carnage and brutality he turned away from it. His son Leto II however did not, and was a huge jerk who essentially got himself and everyone he ever truly loved killed after brutally repressing humanity... but his actions provided the catalyst that set humanity on the path of assured existence.
Neither Leto or the Emperor necessarily want to do the things they do, but due to being all knowing they can see any other path will doom the human race, so they make the hard call and take the burden of those sacrifices on themselves, and have to live with them. As the credo of the Astronomican says: His sacrifice is life, as ours is death.

[hamishspence]

I kind of glossed over that, to be honest - much of The Thousand Sons occurs over an uncertain time frame (I don't think it's ever fully described how long the Sons stay isolated on Prospero, and one can hand-wave away a lot by remembering that 'warp travel is subjective' and such) and that Kai spends an uncertain amount of time drugged and hallucinating... I didn't really try to add it up, so I can forgive a bit of weirdness in that respect.

Some of the events in The Thousand Sons are referenced in other books though:

In one of the earlier books- False Gods: page 405- Horus actually says he contacted Russ, told him some things about Magnus:

"But what of Magnus?" asked Maloghurst urgently. "What happens when Leman Russ returns him to Terra?"
Horus smiled. "Calm yourself, Mal. I have already contacted my brother Russ and illuminated him with the full breadth of Magnus's treacherous use of daemonic spells and conjurations. He was ... suitably angry, and I believe I have convinced him that to return Magnus to Terra would be a waste of time and effort.
Maloghurst return Horus's smile. "Magnus will not leave Prospero alive."
"No," agreed Horus. "He will not."

In Galaxy in Flames (p200-201) just before the Massacre of Istvaan III- the outcome of events on Prospero is revealed:

"First chaplain," said Horus sternly. "Matters are delicate. Do not disturb me needlessly."
"There is news from Prospero,"said Erebus, unperturbed. The shadow whisperers clung to him, darting around his feet and the crozius he wore at his waist.
"Magnus?" said Horus, suddenly interested.
"He lives yet," said Erebus, "but not for the lack of effort on the part of the Wolves of Fenris."
"Magnus lives," snarled Horus. "Then he may yet be a danger."
"No" assured Erebus. "The spires of Prospero have fallen and the warp echoes with the powerful sorcery Magnus used to save his warriors and escape."
"Always sorcery," said Horus. "Where did he escape to?"
"I do not know yet," said Erebus, "but wherever he goes, the Emperor's dogs will hunt him down."
"And he will either join us or die alone in the wilderness," said Horus thoughtfully. "To think that so much depends on the personalities of so few. Magnus was nearly my deadliest enemy, perhaps as dangerous as the Emperor himself. Now he has no choice but to follow us until the very end. If Fulgrim brings Ferrus Magnus into the fold then we have as good as won."

And at the end of Fulgrim (p507)- immediately after the Battle of Istvann V, Horus receives a communique from Magnus the Red- I think the implication is that it is the same communique that, in Collected Visions- was Magnus revealing that he'd escaped Prospero with his Legion- been transformed - and is now on Horus's side.

In The Outcast Dead, however, leaving aside issues of Kai's drugging, a big point is made early on that the treachery at Istvann III is known (hence members of those 4 legions who are on Terra, being imprisoned).

And on page 157-158, Magnus's message arrives. It's described by 3rd person narrator.

On page 159, a point is made that the Istvann V Dropsite Massacre is known to have very recently happened (they have third-hand reports of the Salamanders escaping).

And on page 163-168 Magnus's message wreaks havoc.

Kai, and a senior psyker, Gregoras, talk about it on page 172:

"What's happening here?" asked Kai.
"Magnus is here," said Gregoras.
"Magnus the primarch?"
"Of course Magnus the primarch, who else could unleash such powerful psychic force?"
"How can he be on Terra? He's halfway across the galaxy."
"I don't know how, but Magnus the Red is here and his coming has unleashed power unlike anything you can possibly imagine."
"So this is an attack?"
Gregoras took a breath as he considered the question. "Not as such. I do not believe Magnus has betrayed us, at least not intentionally, but he has acted with such hubris that there will be no forgiveness for this act. The Emperor will have no choice but to make an example of him."
"What does that mean?"
"You know what it means."
"No, I don't," said Kai. "Tell me."
"It will mean that the Wolves will be loosed again."
Kai shivered, unsure of what Gregoras meant, but knowing on a primal level that it would be unwise to ask more.

[13_CBS]

A random question:

So Warp travel can be a fickle mistress--IIRC there have been reports of ships coming out of the Warp at their destination some time BEFORE they left. This means that the Warp can be used to go back in time.

How far could one be flung back in time by the Warp? Could a powerful demon or sorcerer potentially use the Warp to travel years or even millennia back?

[The Glyphstone]

Probably only if it would be a problem for them....the Warp is both fickle and conveniently malicious at times, so the more they want to travel back to the time of the dinosaurs, the less likely they'll be able to do so successfully.

[comicshorse]

Isn't there a short story in one of the Heresy books where someone does in fact use the Warp to go back to try and convince her earlier self to take another course of action and so prevent the future she came from happening

[hamishspence]

There is. She was a Sister of Silence. It's in Tales of Heresy.

[Wraith]

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I thought outcast Dead made the Emperor far more human - as he says you can't be all powerful and all knowing and by trying to be both he's screwed up and now he's got to do the best he can.

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I see where you're coming from, and I understand why you see that. I, however, saw completely the opposite - he says that you can't be all powerful and all knowing.... But at the same time he is the last Cognosynth (who were described as being pretty much all powerful by themselves), as well as being beyond those powers in other areas, and he seems to have his own method of Divination besides that given to him by Kai. Among other things, he's making the implications about sacrificing 'The Crimson Warrior' piece long before he's given the full details of the vision, so he seems ot know what's going on.

This is why....

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Neither Leto or the Emperor necessarily want to do the things they do, but due to being all knowing they can see any other path will doom the human race, so they make the hard call and take the burden of those sacrifices on themselves, and have to live with them. As the credo of the Astronomican says: His sacrifice is life, as ours is death.

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....Seems to me to be somewhat.... well, lazy. The Eldar Farseers teach us that the future is concealed behind a thousand details, decisions, paths and emotions at the right or wrong place at the right or wrong time, each one leading to one of a myriad of results, and yet someone of the Emperor's power can only see two possible outcomes: Abject failure or extinction.

Perhaps I'm reading into it too deeply, but he appears to resign himself to letting Sanguinius die and himself become an eternally tortured corpse with too little complaint or searches for alternatives. It feels a bit as though he's found the first way that equals victory - details be damned - and resigned himself to it.

It's almost a pity that they'll never write a book from the Emperor's point of view (or, at least, they won't if they have any narrative sense or loyalty....). It'd be interesting to see why this is the most attractive prospect, or why he can't find any better ones given his power and ability compared to those (again, Farseers) who can.