Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. II: It's A Magical Thread

[Joran]

The funny part that I got today is that the name of the killer drones who were pursuing him were actually "Reapers"

Kind of a sweet Fridge Brilliance Joke

It's not the real world Reaper. Those are propeller-driven, not jet driven like the ones in SHIELD. Also, the tail section is all wrong.

http://marvelcinematicuniverse.wikia...H.I.E.L.D._UAV

Doesn't mean that the Marvel universe doesn't have a UAV called the Reaper.

[Cheesegear]

RE; Angel and Doyle.

Season 1 of Angel was in the year 2000 (or 1999 for American folks). I was 12 at the time. Doyle's death did not impact me much. What did impact me was seeing Wesley in the next episode. 'Cause I knew him from Buffy. Second, Doyle's death was not a cliffhanger. It doesn't ask you to watch the next episode like this SHIELD episode does. Or maybe even Gunn's introduction ("You were expecting somebody else?"). Or, the best thing in Season 1, is Spike and Oz rocking up in episode 3. During the first run of Angel ('growing up with it'), which was nearly 15 years ago, Doyle's death hardly mattered. Not like a cliffhanger does.

EDIT: Also, Doyle being bumped off so early was also not the plan. Inter-staff conflict forced him to be removed from the show (the actor himself later died because of that problem).

[Palanan]

Note that the Marvel wiki page defines a UAV as an "Unmanned Ariel Vehicle."

[Cikomyr]

Note that the Marvel wiki page defines a UAV as an "Unmanned Ariel Vehicle."

HOLY CRAP!!

This means SHIELD is operating with the Atlantian Merfolk's support!!

[Cheesegear]

This means SHIELD is operating with the Atlantian Merfolk's support!!

Well, part of the plot of The Little Mermaid is the fact that Ariel is un-manned.

[LaZodiac]

Note that the Marvel wiki page defines a UAV as an "Unmanned Ariel Vehicle."

Wikis are notoriously accurate and not full of stupid people.

[Cikomyr]

Wikis are notoriously accurate and not full of stupid people.

Indeed. It says so on Wikipedia.

[theNater]

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Hm. Good point.

Also, I wonder if in some slight way this might be a commentary on the limits of dedication in the modern age? In Cap's time, people fought hard and believed hard, but these days they're more likely to weasel out of a commitment?

This is probably me reading way too much into it, but I did notice that today's generation of HYDRA lacks a certain mad fanaticism.

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I'd say it's more a reflection of the way leaders influence their organizations. Remember the technician who refuses to initiate the launch, even with a gun to his head? He's a 100% modern man, and he's willing to lay down his life for the cause. He believes because he sees that belief in Cap and in Fury. Say what you like about the Red Skull, but he's a man with conviction, and the people around him tend to inherit that. Contrast Zola, who approves of the cause, but not enough to inconvenience himself over it-he inspires followers to be like Sitwell and Garrett.

Agents of SHIELD also shows at neat example of how attitudes propagate. Coulson learned his conviction from Cap, and Fitz learned his from Coulson.

[Sith_Happens]

Spoiler: Clarification

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You mean the thing that Fury uses to cut through the street?
The thing that Maria Hill uses to cut through the bottom of a car?

The thing that gets used all of twice in the entire film?
Or are we talking about a different device? I watched Winter Soldier and I have absolutely no idea what device you are talking about.

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It's that, yeah.

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I was sure there were about two more times it gets used, but I guess the actual two times just really stood out to me. The brain is a wonderful thing.

Spoiler: n-crossing

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And finally Ward... there's NO WAY he could fight these guys off-screen alone.

Spoiler: "These Guys"

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You mean the twelve soldiers that he took out the first eight of on-screen in the show's most glorious fight scene yet?

Spoiler: WS spoilers

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One thing I noticed during the uprising at the Hub, as well as in Winter Soldier, is that HYDRA agents no longer seem so keen on self-sacrifice to avoid revealing information. In the first Captain America movie, those little cyanide tooth-capsules were all the rage, and Zola was the only one who declined to serve HYDRA one last time.

And in fact, when Sitwell was bagged as a HYDRA agent, I kept expecting him to give a big crunch and anti-heroically expire. Sadly, he never went that route, nor did anyone else. Either the new, improved HYDRA is staffed with less committed people, or S.H.I.E.L.D. has a better dental plan.

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And General T. L. Jones said as much to Zola during the interrogation, how all the other captured HYDRA agents had gnashed away, and Zola was the only one who hadn't.

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Zola was indeed stated to be the first Hydra agent successfully brought in alive.

As for why that apparently fell out of style, I think SHIELD's dental plan is indeed the most likely reason. Specifically, the fact that it's a lot harder to maintain your cover once your dentist notices you have a false tooth full of cyanide.

It's not the real world Reaper. Those are propeller-driven, not jet driven like the ones in SHIELD. Also, the tail section is all wrong.

http://marvelcinematicuniverse.wikia...H.I.E.L.D._UAV

Doesn't mean that the Marvel universe doesn't have a UAV called the Reaper.

MY HEADCANON WILL NOT BE DEFEATED SO EASILY!

Well, part of the plot of The Little Mermaid is the fact that Ariel is un-manned.

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Indeed. It says so on Wikipedia.

I love reading Wikipedia's articles about itself, they're so hilariously meta.

[Kitten Champion]

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Hm. Good point.

Also, I wonder if in some slight way this might be a commentary on the limits of dedication in the modern age? In Cap's time, people fought hard and believed hard, but these days they're more likely to weasel out of a commitment?

This is probably me reading way too much into it, but I did notice that today's generation of HYDRA lacks a certain mad fanaticism.

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That's an interesting point. I think it's more about the Americanization of the organization and modern perspectives on power. HYDRA has always been fairly entrenched in establishing archaic European forms of tyranny, but here it's more about the modern invisible forms of power than waving the flag and saluting the leader -- because they've learned how ineffective that is.

The furthest image from the Red Skull is Robert Redford's character, one was a megalomaniac obsessed with his own supremacy, the other was willing to compromise everything for the sake of absolute global security -- both entailed dominating others but Redford saw that as a means to an end rather than the end in and of itself. Red Skull made a cult around his personality and super-science, the only part of that which remained after his disappearance was a general sense of misanthropy and radical political agenda.

The significance of modern HYDRA isn't that they're blind fanatics following a horrendous ubermensch to nihilistic ends, but rather, that they're "the wrong hands". The ones who will abuse the trust you have in the system and use the power it has over you for their own agenda, the same people who could potentially come to control any position when left unchecked. For that they need to appear as plausibly sane, well... in comic book villain terms at least.

[TheOldCrow]

UK time:

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interesting ending. So May's keeping an eye on AC

"Odin" wants her alive... is he trying to thin the heard a bit, or does he need her for a later plan?

so, Fury's "busy" ... at least he wasn't ... you know...

finally Sitwell... it's a shame I know things from TWS that make me dislike him but at least AC doesn't trust him

Spoiler: yes men

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Loved that ending with May. Wow, she's sneaky, setting up Coulson to go talk to Skye when he wouldn't talk to her. And I think it partly explains why she was so brusque with Ward; I don't think she expected to find him in the cockpit and she wanted to get rid of him quickly because him being there was cutting into her eavesdropping time.

As for Sitwell, I haven't seen Winter Soldier yet. There's a future episode where someone says something with something that sounded like "Sitwell" attached to it, though, and I thought I needed to get my ears checked.

Spoiler: Turn, Turn, Turn

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Now I think I know what was up with May and her relationship with Ward. She's sleeping with the guy that she put there just in case someone needed to put a bullet in her best friend's brain. No wonder her little dalliance wasn't cheering her up more. The closer Ward tries to get to her, the more coolly businesslike she gets about the whole thing. And the more Coulson learns about Tahiti, the icier she gets towards Ward because she doesn't know how its going to go down. The weird dynamics of her relationship with Ward make more sense now.

[Hopeless]

Spoiler: yes men

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Loved that ending with May. Wow, she's sneaky, setting up Coulson to go talk to Skye when he wouldn't talk to her. And I think it partly explains why she was so brusque with Ward; I don't think she expected to find him in the cockpit and she wanted to get rid of him quickly because him being there was cutting into her eavesdropping time.

As for Sitwell, I haven't seen Winter Soldier yet. There's a future episode where someone says something with something that sounded like "Sitwell" attached to it, though, and I thought I needed to get my ears checked.

Spoiler: Turn, Turn, Turn

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Now I think I know what was up with May and her relationship with Ward. She's sleeping with the guy that she put there just in case someone needed to put a bullet in her best friend's brain. No wonder her little dalliance wasn't cheering her up more. The closer Ward tries to get to her, the more coolly businesslike she gets about the whole thing. And the more Coulson learns about Tahiti, the icier she gets towards Ward because she doesn't know how its going to go down. The weird dynamics of her relationship with Ward make more sense now.

Seriously?
I was wondering who AC was?
And I need to type ten letters just to do that?!

[TheOldCrow]

AC is Agent (No-First-Name) Coulson.

Skye tried calling Coulson "Phil" in one of the early episodes, and he told her not to, so she jokingly used AC instead.

I think it goes back to the Avengers movie, where Coulson and Pepper Potts are chatting and when Tony Stark overhears her call Coulson "Phil", Tony interrupts with something like, No, his first name is "Agent".

[Archonic Energy]

Seriously?
I was wondering who AC was?
And I need to type ten letters just to do that?!

Skye refers to Coulson as "AC" at the end of the episode.

maybe they are retconing his first name to "Agent"

[LaZodiac]

Skye refers to Coulson as "AC" at the end of the episode.

maybe they are retconing his first name to "Agent"

Naw, it's just a cute nickname

[Thrawn183]

Thanks again for the warning to wait to watch the episode until after seeing CA: WS.

I had a great time watching both as a result.

[LaZodiac]

Thanks again for the warning to wait to watch the episode until after seeing CA: WS.

I had a great time watching both as a result.

I have done a good deed. Please reward me with tomorrow's Shield episode also being good.

[SeeDarkly_X]

So this piece of news (found via a link posted to Whedonesque over the weekend) seems hopeful:

Spoiler: S2 and a Bridge for the holiday gap?

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"Then there is Marvel’s stealth Agent Carter project. Last year, the company went into Fort Knox mode on its Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. pilot, which was kept under lock and key. They took that a notch further this year with Agent Carter. Because there is a prototype — the project is inspired by a one shot, which was featured on the Blu-ray release of Iron Man 3 — word has been that it would forgo a pilot and go straight to series. The script was finished more than three months ago (“the script is great,” ABC’s Paul Lee said back in January), the option on one-shot’s star Hayley Atwell came up and was extended, but the green light never came. Now there is talk that a pickup for Agent Carter may come along with a renewal for Marvel’s freshman Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., with the new series possibly serving as a bridge between the fall and spring portions of S.H.I.E.L.D."

Now while this is no specific confirmation of renewal (in fact, ABC has still ONLY announced a few cancellations and NO fall renewals for any of their prime-time line up just yet) it does seem likely and very much like they won't put quite so many breaks in S2 without what looks like a pretty interesting filler.

[Palanan]

So, new episode. Action, drama, pathos, doubt, tons of fun.

First things first:

Spoiler: Is He or Isn't He?

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Yup, they're pushing the Ward-Is-Really-A-Bad-Guy angle pretty hard. Deep cover from the start, gather intel on Coulson's team, manipulate everyone and everything, Ward is the consummate sociopathic liar, yadda yadda.

GAWD I hate that. Plot twists for the sake of plot twists just irritate me. But unless Ward is pulling the ultimate triple-cross, which seems unlikely, we can chalk him up to Team Bad People.

Best line:

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There were a lot of them this time around. Probably when Coulson really needs some good news:

Skye: We have internet.

Coulson: Yay!

But the bad guys got the really best lines:

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Ward: A little warning next time? They did have automatic weapons.

Garrett: I know, but it was a good line, I couldn't resist.

And the official record for name-dropping....

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Really, they mentioned just about every major character in the MCU. Fury was constant, of course, but I also heard references to Cap, Romanoff, the Chitauri, several others I can't recall. Not to mention the various visual references once Garrett and Ward knocked over the Fridge.

What, Fury lied?

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So, the Slingshot was a farce, and all the toys are actually in the Fridge. And now HYDRA has all the toys.

Including the Chaos Staff, of all things. They kept the Chaos Staff?!?! Seriously, Midgard is a mess without Thor around.

But speaking of the Fridge...really, given how paranoid Fury is, and just how dangerous most of the items on the Fridge's shelves are, you'd think they'd have failsafe after failsafe to protect the vaults from absolutely everyone.

But then, they built the Fridge on a sandy beach substrate, which is 31 flavors of stupid, so what can you say?

Black Team vs. White Team

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What I really liked about this episode was the aspect of competing teams, which we've seen before, but never so personally on the bad guys' side. Garrett, Ward and Rayna aren't just Dastardly Evil People cackling and plotting; they have their own personal dynamics, their own prickly interactions and their own questions about each other.

I especially enjoyed Ward's exchange with Rayna, in which he shows off his sociopathically perfect acting abilities and rather proudly explains just how well he played Coulson all the while. Even though they're unquestionably villains (yes, even Ward) they're so familiar to us as characters that they've become humanized and very personal.

What's more, they're not given to casually shooting each other just to show what kind of tough they are. Ward and Garrett have the deepest history, but there's an odd bond between Garrett and Rayna too--even though he's broken her faith in his supposed abilities, he knows how to motivate her: with the lure of new discoveries, the opportunity to continue her work.

They're all playing each other to some degree, and yet they're all aware of it, because they each have something to offer the others. No telling how long this will last, but I'd love to see the duality continue, developing the villains as people in counterpoint with Coulson's team.

Forehead-smacking plot hole:

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Okay, we've landed the Bus in the snowbound Canadian wilderness, out of fuel and low on supplies. We have limited time to find an unknown site which may or may not save our lives, and we have seven miles of tough terrain to cross in order to reach it.

And we have a frackin' FLYING CAR right there on the ramp, which we all walk right by in our pathetically inadequate, S.H.I.E.L.D.-monogrammed windbreakers, heading out to tromp through the snow.

Really, they were dressed for a winter walk in San Francisco, not the Canadian Arctic. And no one's breath was fogging.

Yet another secret S.H.I.E.L.D. facility:

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Also, was I the only one who wondered if Coulson would run across Alkali Lake?

Second best bad-guy line:

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Overeager Goon: Hail HYDRA!!

Garrett: Put your arms down, you look like a Texas cheerleader.

Also, from the previous episode:

Spoiler: Nice Touches Dept.

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When Victoria Hand walks into the lab where Jemma and Tripp have just been discovered, she strides past a frosted S.H.I.E.L.D. logo on a glass panel, which is backlit by a red databank to give the S.H.I.E.L.D. logo a sinister crimson glow.

Quick cut to Jemma with her back against the lab table, and a small monitor to the right with a brave blue tint. A nice little contrast, harsh and threatening red against brave and hopeful blue. I really only noticed that the second time around.

.

[LaZodiac]

This episode confirmed

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that Ward being a boring, flat character that was "Action McHeropants" was all A CLEVER DISGUISE. Mwahaha.

Also, Gravitron, Blizzard kid, and whole bunch of not so fun things are going to be showing up for our heroes. Good luck. Also I thought the dude at Providence was Stark's bodyguard for awhile.

Finally, oh my god mysterious metal panel on Garret WHAT COULD MEAN?????

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by LaZodiac

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Also I thought the dude at Providence was Stark's bodyguard for awhile.

He does look incredibly familiar, doesn't he? I feel like he's someone I'm supposed to know.

.

[theNater]

Forehead-smacking plot hole:

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Okay, we've landed the Bus in the snowbound Canadian wilderness, out of fuel and low on supplies. We have limited time to find an unknown site which may or may not save our lives, and we have seven miles of tough terrain to cross in order to reach it.

And we have a frackin' FLYING CAR right there on the ramp, which we all walk right by in our pathetically inadequate, S.H.I.E.L.D.-monogrammed windbreakers, heading out to tromp through the snow.

Really, they were dressed for a winter walk in San Francisco, not the Canadian Arctic. And no one's breath was fogging.

Potential plot patches:

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I think it's a safe bet that Lola can't go through trees, and there were a lot of those around. It is unclear how much altitude she can achieve; going over trees may also be unfeasible. Even if she can, she's a two-seater. Piling everybody in might be entertaining, but probably not very effective.

On the weather: it's currently springtime in Canada, not winter. Their attire is reasonable for "the snow hasn't quite melted, but it's above freezing", which is certainly plausible weather at this time of year. It even becomes likely weather if they are in some of the huge portions of Canadian wilderness that aren't arctic(I can't remember whether they specified "arctic" in the show).

[BWR]

The show is finally getting somewhere. The plot is interesting and I look forward to each new episode. Still don't give a rat's arse about any of the characters, except Garret, who actually is amusing.

[dehro]

so... what is it with SHIELD security and gullibility?
that's 3 Chewbaccas in a row they've pulled on them in as many episodes/movie.
once in the last episode, once in this episode and once (albeit a variant) in the movie,

Spoiler: CAP2 Movie spoiler

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with Agent Scherbatsky.

does nobody watch Star Wars anymore?

[Chen]

That was a pretty decent episode. One part I wondered about though:

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How does the Fridge not have SOME sort of anti-aircraft defenses for that supposed attack helicopter? And despite them breaking in, how did they not get noticed on camera somewhere shooting those guards in the elevator and then moving out? I mean there weren't THAT many Hydra guys in there and presumably they all had to get there somehow bringing up again the lack of anti-aircraft defenses.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by dehro
...does nobody watch Star Wars anymore?

Cap has it on his list.

Originally Posted by Chen

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How does the Fridge not have SOME sort of anti-aircraft defenses for that supposed attack helicopter? And despite them breaking in, how did they not get noticed on camera somewhere shooting those guards in the elevator and then moving out? I mean there weren't THAT many Hydra guys in there and presumably they all had to get there somehow bringing up again the lack of anti-aircraft defenses.

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On the face of it, the Fridge certainly looks like the worst high-security facility your tax money can buy.

But once they got in, we can assume Garrett had enough codes and gizmos to handle most of the internal security. Still doesn't excuse them for not having AA weapons, though, especially considering even the Bus has a couple of turrets.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

so... what is it with SHIELD security and gullibility?
that's 3 Chewbaccas in a row they've pulled on them in as many episodes/movie.
once in the last episode, once in this episode and once (albeit a variant) in the movie,

Spoiler: CAP2 Movie spoiler

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with Agent Scherbatsky.

does nobody watch Star Wars anymore?

To be fair to the guards in this episode,

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They weren't dealing with a fake prisoner gambit at all: Ward was actually ordered by the actual head of SHIELD to bring Garrett (an actual prisoner) to the Fridge, and it actually was all arranged ahead of time, as the dialogue mentioned. It's not the guards' fault that she just happened to give the prisoner duty to the one remaining traitor at headquarters.

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On the face of it, the Fridge certainly looks like the worst high-security facility your tax money can buy.

But once they got in, we can assume Garrett had enough codes and gizmos to handle most of the internal security. Still doesn't excuse them for not having AA weapons, though, especially considering even the Bus has a couple of turrets.

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If Garrett had the codes to deal with internal security, he probably also had codes for external security, like giving the helicopter a SHIELD IFF so it wouldn't trigger any AA defenses and stuff like that.

[Sapphire Guard]

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Good episode, really. But whose idea was it to make the super high security prison with all the amazingly dangerous prisoners the same place as where all the super dangerous alien prototype objects were stored? It makes a certain amount of sense, I guess, if you have limited funds and security, but...

Also, wasn't the Hub in Europe somewhere? At least, close enough to Abkhazia that storming that base was run out of there during the Fitz/Ward mission? Why is it American soldiers that come to shut it down?

[Friv]

To be fair to the guards in this episode,

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They weren't dealing with a fake prisoner gambit at all: Ward was actually ordered by the actual head of SHIELD to bring Garrett (an actual prisoner) to the Fridge, and it actually was all arranged ahead of time, as the dialogue mentioned. It's not the guards' fault that she just happened to give the prisoner duty to the one remaining traitor at headquarters.

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If Garrett had the codes to deal with internal security, he probably also had codes for external security, like giving the helicopter a SHIELD IFF so it wouldn't trigger any AA defenses and stuff like that.

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In addition to the above, chances are the Fridge was operating on a skeleton crew, with significant systems and defenses already offline. There's no reason to believe that there wasn't a SHIELD-Hydra civil war there, too, a few hours before.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

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In addition to the above, chances are the Fridge was operating on a skeleton crew, with significant systems and defenses already offline. There's no reason to believe that there wasn't a SHIELD-Hydra civil war there, too, a few hours before.

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In fact, we know they must have been. I doubt every single time something or someone was taken to the fridge, it required a level 9 to be present, and yet that was the case in the episode. So they were in lock-down mode, which suggests the issues elsewhere were replicated here. Indeed, given what a juicy price it is, I'm sure Hydra worked very hard to infiltrate it.

GW