Honor Harrington - Should I pick it up?

[The Glyphstone]

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Also as you'll find out later, Technodyne has specific reasons for not wanting to share R&D with the Solarian establishment.

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Technodyne's not part of the Alignment. It's exactly what it appears to be, a greedy amoral ship-building corporation. They want Manty tech so they can sell it to the Solarian Navy, or anyone else willing to buy their stuff (such as Mesa). The Navy's own internal R&D is stagnant, though.

[brionl]

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Technodyne's not part of the Alignment. It's exactly what it appears to be, a greedy amoral ship-building corporation. They want Manty tech so they can sell it to the Solarian Navy, or anyone else willing to buy their stuff (such as Mesa). The Navy's own internal R&D is stagnant, though.

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They aren't part of the inner core of the Alignment, but they are a Mesa corp and are being manipulated by Alignment. They supplied the ships and weapons for the proxy attack on the Lynx terminus, and supplied weapons for the Solarian assault on the Manticore home system. They're also involved with the "fake Manticore uprisings" in the Saganami Island books.

[The Glyphstone]

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They aren't part of the inner core of the Alignment, but they are a Mesa corp and are being manipulated by Alignment. They supplied the ships and weapons for the proxy attack on the Lynx terminus, and supplied weapons for the Solarian assault on the Manticore home system. They're also involved with the "fake Manticore uprisings" in the Saganami Island books.

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They're not, actually. Technodyne Industries of Yildun isn't headquartered on Mesa. They did, indeed, supply the weapons and ships you mentioned...because they got paid for them, see above. Manpower bought the "surplus" battlecruisers from them under the table, something Technodyne canonically does all the time to both other corporations and occasionally outright pirates. The Solarian Navy just bought its stuff from them openly, because Technodyne is one of their major arms suppliers.

There's no manipulation here. It's just business from Technodyne's end in all of these cases. They're as much dupes as the rest of the galaxy when it comes to nefarious Alignment scheming.

[Gnoman]

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Back to my original comment, the FTL radio project mentioned in this book can't be part of the onion, not least because if it were there's no chance NavInt would have tumbled to it (as any source within the onion would have peeled it and greatly shortened the series). Meanwhile, any of the independent transtellars or system defense forces would stand to make a truly inconcievable amount of money even from the first-gen version used at Yeltsin, let alone the later real-time full-video system that's used by the (current) end of the series. I was just wondering if it was ever clarified why this project hadn't borne fruit by the time the Alignment gets antsy.

[Cikomyr]

Well, your wall of spoilers conversarion is probably very interesting.

I dislike the initial White Haven/Harrington romance plot. Its a bit out of nowhere, and it reads like a bad teenager romance novel.

On the other hand, i love the details Weber went into describing the events with the Treecats colony. Really funny and interesting.

Also cant wait to see Honor/Hampill new tech'ed up fleet in action. I loved the way Honor literally slammed down White Haven over his "old guy" reactionary mentality.

Still think Honor should have been captured at the end of the last book.

For the record, i also think the Haven Revolutionaru Plot should have happened simultaneously as Field of Dishonor.

[The Glyphstone]

Yeah, the WH/Harrington ship does sort of hit out of nowhere. To be fair, it also hits the characters out of nowhere. But it bears some entertaining fruit later down the line, so best just put up with it for now.

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Probably just not enough time. HoE takes plays in 1908 P.D., and the Battle of Spindle is in 1922 P.D. 14 years might be a lot objectively, but subjectively it's probably a lot harder to develop a revolutionary technology from scratch like that with no samples of working hardware or anything beyond a vague idea of 'they're doing it so it must be possible'.

[Cheesegear]

I dislike the initial White Haven/Harrington romance plot. Its a bit out of nowhere, and it reads like a bad teenager romance novel.

I hate the whole thing, from start to finish.

[Douglas]

On the other hand, i love the details Weber went into describing the events with the Treecats colony. Really funny and interesting.

Yes, the description of everyone else's confusion and consternation over the idea is quite amusing, along with the fact that the relevant laws clearly weren't written with the treecats' ability to make their own decisions in mind.

There's a short story somewhere that shows Nimitz and Samantha convincing the other treecats that it's a good idea.

Also cant wait to see Honor/Hampill new tech'ed up fleet in action. I loved the way Honor literally slammed down White Haven over his "old guy" reactionary mentality.

It'll take a while to build, they'll have to essentially build an entire new military nearly from scratch, but don't worry, it's coming.

Still think Honor should have been captured at the end of the last book.

Certain important pieces for her PoW journey weren't in place then. Regardless, once she does get captured, the eventual resulting havoc should be fun to read.

[The Glyphstone]

Yes, the description of everyone else's confusion and consternation over the idea is quite amusing, along with the fact that the relevant laws clearly weren't written with the treecats' ability to make their own decisions in mind.

There's a short story somewhere that shows Nimitz and Samantha convincing the other treecats that it's a good idea.

Anthology #3 specifically, Changer of Worlds. Also the title of the story in question.

[Knaight]

It does mean that he will try to make us actually care when the characters do die or perish or be grateful, unlike Martin who doesn't seem to care beyond wanking off the good guys and leaving the bad guys to win all the time. Might as well call it Game of Thrones for Villain Sues

Plenty of villainous characters die horribly in Martin novels - and Weber is probably comparable in terms of percentage of characters who die off, with the total being smaller due to the cast size being a little more contained.

[Cikomyr]

Allison Harrington is damn cool. I love her scenes.

Weber really has a gift for making characters generally interesting and worth following. With a few glaring exceptions.

[gomipile]

Allison Harrington is damn cool. I love her scenes.

Weber really has a gift for making characters generally interesting and worth following. With a few glaring exceptions.

Where are you at now in the series, Cikomyr? To the nearest quarter of a book, anyway.

[Cheesegear]

Allison Harrington is damn cool. I love her scenes.

...Noo...
I trusted you.

[The Glyphstone]

...Noo...
I trusted you.

Oh hush. Allison is awesome.

[Cikomyr]

Where are you at now in the series, Cikomyr? To the nearest quarter of a book, anyway.

In Ennemy's Hand
Honor just left Grayson with her convoy, ready to be ambushed

[russdm]

Plenty of villainous characters die horribly in Martin novels

Really? Besides Viserys, Tywin, and Maybe the Mountain, who would that be? That we actually know if some fashion? If I recall, The new lord of the north and his bastard son are still alive, Walder Frey (& his entire vile family) is still alive, Cersei is still alive, Littlefinger is still alive, Sansa is still alive, Varys is still alive, compared to maybe Tyrion or Jaime or Danaerys or Arya? I am seeing more surviving villains than heroes (For a given definition of hero) in the story.

[Cikomyr]

Really? Besides Viserys, Tywin, and Maybe the Mountain, who would that be? That we actually know if some fashion? If I recall, The new lord of the north and his bastard son are still alive, Walder Frey (& his entire vile family) is still alive, Cersei is still alive, Littlefinger is still alive, Sansa is still alive, Varys is still alive, compared to maybe Tyrion or Jaime or Danaerys or Arya? I am seeing more surviving villains than heroes (For a given definition of hero) in the story.

This isnt the thread to discuss this

[Foeofthelance]

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Back to my original comment, the FTL radio project mentioned in this book can't be part of the onion, not least because if it were there's no chance NavInt would have tumbled to it (as any source within the onion would have peeled it and greatly shortened the series). Meanwhile, any of the independent transtellars or system defense forces would stand to make a truly inconcievable amount of money even from the first-gen version used at Yeltsin, let alone the later real-time full-video system that's used by the (current) end of the series. I was just wondering if it was ever clarified why this project hadn't borne fruit by the time the Alignment gets antsy.

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Writing from my phone, so forgive grammar and spelling. There are a couple of reasons why the Solarias get caught off guard by manticore's come and drones. First, it's the size and capability. Manticore isn't just using ftl coms, it's that they're building them small enough and stealthy to get past solarian sensors, fast enough to get within range that they can pick up solarian radio/com lasers, and powerful enough to transmit fully detailed audio and video over 30+ million miles of space in real time. If they can squeeze all that into a drone, they can sneak a warhead through as well.

Next, solarian r&d is a much more convoluted scenario than manticore and haven. Both haven and manticore have relatively central command over their programs, while the solarian are a combination of federal programs, independent system programs, and transtellars such as technodyne. So solarian working on ftl coms could mean anything from battlefleet to beowulf. They also lack the miniature power systems grayson introduced.

Finally, so far all the solarian commanders fought have been battlefleet, and deliberately so. Frontier fleet is arrogant, but recognizes the fact that things have been changing, even if they don't appreciate the scope. Battlefleet can't even see that. What few reports they did have were deliberately suppressed or downplayed. When you get told the same thing day in and day out, it tends to be a slap in the face when reality proves otherwise.

[Slayn82]

Crow of Slaves and Torch of Freedom explained more about Solarian's Battle Fleet attitudes towards the reports of military technological advances from the Haven - Manticore sector.

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Turns out that, along with the disinformation from Mesan Alignment, that wanted a weak Solarian Navy to allow the planet's under its influence to seceed from Solarian Alliance, there's also the disinformation spread by the group aligned to the Maya sector and it's Governor, Oravil Barregos, who also plan to separate themselves from the Solarian Alliance.

Barregos was supposed to be acting in favor of Solarian interests by increasing the pressure for Fleet expansion and modernization in such situations. Instead, he is sending the message that there's no significant military threat to the league. He is also building a modern fleet, using Manticore - like designs from Erewhon, supposedly as mere light units for commerce protection against piracy. We know how much Manticoran light units can kick Solarian Wallers.

[Cikomyr]

Oh Harkness, Why Hast Doeth Forsaken Thy Nation?!

Yhea. I totally believed he betrayed his nation and crew. Sure.

The escape plot was really fun. Again tho, the spesh and technical stuff was better written than the in-ship slugfest, which left me confused. Its okay, i wait until the next book to figure out who is still alive.

Speaking of the next book! I started Echoes of Honor. I initially thought the book was going to be about Honor's escape from Hades, but the plot seems to focus more on... Well, everyone else, everywhere. So far, we have seen:

- Manticore's high politics
- Haven's high politics
- The Minotaure Prototype (really looking forward to this one!!!)
- Grayson inheritance crisis

I especially liked the Grayson's inheritance discussion so far. Benjamin's inability to not snark at his ancestor's treachery was a great moment. Weber really has a gift for making conversations enjoyable, and his characters alive.

[The Glyphstone]

Don't worry, lots of the book is going to be about Honor on Hades. But since Weber needs to keep you appraised of what's going on outside the narrow slice of the universe revolving around Honor Harrington, and because she'll end up with large amounts of non-activity downtime during her planning, there's lots of free page count available to do it in.

[Cikomyr]

I should have mentioned:

I was not looking forward to the escape plot. Not sure why, but I have this little dread anticipation.

I know the story of the Saganami Island series kind of branches in with the main series eventually. When should i pick the books?

[Rakaydos]

I should have mentioned:

I was not looking forward to the escape plot. Not sure why, but I have this little dread anticipation.

I know the story of the Saganami Island series kind of branches in with the main series eventually. When should i pick the books?

Sometime after the High Ridge goverment falls, IIRC.

[The Glyphstone]

Saganami Island books branch out starting after Ashes of Victory and before/during War of Honor. They're still running parallel to the mainline as of A Rising Thunder, but the upcoming Shadow of Victory should be the end of the side-series.

Crown of Slaves also starts between Ashes and War, but it forks back into the mainline after Cauldron of Ghosts at the start of ART.

[Cikomyr]

Cant wait to see the LAC-Carrier Prototype in action. Please tell me we see it?!?

[Rodin]

Cant wait to see the LAC-Carrier Prototype in action. Please tell me we see it?!?

Oh-ho-ho-ho yes.

And it is GLORIOUS.

[Gnoman]

Cant wait to see the LAC-Carrier Prototype in action. Please tell me we see it?!?

Do you really think Weber's going to give you that much exposition about a cool new starship and not show it to you in action?


As for the side-series, the reading order I go with is adding Crown of Slaves and Shadow of Saganimi after War of Honor, reading At All Costs, then going to Storm From The Shadows and Torch of Freedom. This seems to be best at showing you events on-screen before you get told about them. You could move Crown up one book and read it before War of Honor. The various short stories I haven't bothered tracking down yet, so I haven't looked into where they fit.

Both of the major side-series are fairly important, for reasons that I can't yet explain for spoiler reasons. In broad terms, Crown and Torch are largely spy stories in which Manticoran and Havenite intelligence are both working against the slave-traders of Mesa, while the Shadow series (also called the Saganimi Island series) focuses on Manticoran activity in another area of space from the Haven front.

[Cikomyr]

Did i mentioned that i find adorably quaint the Grayson's cultural heritage? Their obsession of baseball, Samurai movies and monopoly as seen from cultured centuries-removed from Eartg is really funny.

[Rodin]

Did i mentioned that i find adorably quaint the Grayson's cultural heritage? Their obsession of baseball, Samurai movies and monopoly as seen from cultured centuries-removed from Eartg is really funny.

Honor thinking the baseball team was an angry mob is one my favorite funny moments from the entire series.

[Douglas]

Oh Harkness, Why Hast Doeth Forsaken Thy Nation?!

Yhea. I totally believed he betrayed his nation and crew. Sure.

The escape plot was really fun. Again tho, the spesh and technical stuff was better written than the in-ship slugfest, which left me confused. Its okay, i wait until the next book to figure out who is still alive.

And now you know why Harkness is Awesome. He almost singlehandedly took an entire shipful of incredibly high profile prisoners of war from maximum security and zero resources to armed and free in fully loaded assault shuttles that no one knows even exist, while disintegrating the prison ship behind them as they left and faking their deaths, all with nothing but brains, technical skills, and ingenuity. Honor may be the premier commander of the series, but Harkness is the premier tech expert, and he really got to show off here.

Honor thinking the baseball team was an angry mob is one my favorite funny moments from the entire series.

She transitions from that to poking fun at visiting friends when they express confusion and misunderstandings about the game. This includes dismissing a question about why the distance between bases is measured in feet (quite possibly the only remaining use in the entire galaxy of that archaic measurement unit) with a fake religiously reverential "because this is baseball".