Warhammer 40k Fluff Thread IX: "Post-human Centipede"

[Zorg]

Welcome to the Ninth Warhammer 40k fluff thread.

Why do we have a fluff thread and a tabletop thread? Well, because, to put it bluntly, arguments about fluff can take up a lot of space. And that makes it hard for people to get critiques on their list. So, if you need to find out what's a good color scheme for your custom Dark Angels Successor chapter, Argue the morality of the setting yet again (Oh, how we wish you wouldn't), or even share fluff you've written for your army, here's the place. This is even the place to come and ask about the thread's title, if you don't get it

Just remember, in the Grim Darkness of the dark future, there is only pointless bickering!

Previous Threads
Thread I: Warning: No Fanboys Allowed ()
Thread II: Heresy Grown From Idleness
Thread III: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion III: You're Emprah? Well I didn't vote for you!
Thread IV: Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion IV
Thread V:Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion V -WARNING: May Contain Heresy
Thread VI:Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion VI- They see me Ward'en, they haten
Thread VII: Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion VII - "There's A Codex Entry For That"
Thread VIII: Warhammer 40k Fluff Discussion VIII - ""Khorne's Most Favourite Thread EVER"


Things What We Talked About Recently:

• Levels of canon between books, codexes and games
• construction and rarity of power weapons

[Wraith]

Hopefully by the time page 50 of this thread rolls round, we'll have forgotten all about that suggestion...

You're one sick puppy, Zorg. I knew there was a reason I loved you =)

[Eldan]

Necron Tomb Stalker? Or are there any other posthuman centipedes?

[13_CBS]

A topic that came up last thread:

It's been said that "WH40k canon fluff" comprises of any fluff printed in any official or officially sanctioned tabletop gaming book (so GW's mainline tabletop wargame rulebooks and Forgeworld's stuff) and any fluff printed in any BL novel not declared Heretical. Anything else--namely 40k videogames--do not qualify as being canon.

Does anyone have any tangible proof of this, outside of Dawn of War fluff being very silly at times? Like, an official statement by a GW rep saying the above? Or is the above just something we've inferred?

[hamishspence]

A topic that came up last thread:

It's been said that "WH40k canon fluff" comprises of any fluff printed in any official or officially sanctioned tabletop gaming book (so GW's mainline tabletop wargame rulebooks and Forgeworld's stuff)

Do FFG's books count as "sanctioned tabletop gaming" - albeit roleplay rather than wargame?

[13_CBS]

Do FFG's books count as "sanctioned tabletop gaming" - albeit roleplay rather than wargame?

I dunno--FFG material rarely seems to come up in conversation around here. Or at least, Cheesegear has rarely talked about it, and he's the main source of the policy I mentioned as far as I'm aware.

[Cikomyr]

So.. Hum.. Do we keep talking about the thread title, or that choice up-there is permanent?

[shadow_archmagi]

So.. Hum.. Do we keep talking about the thread title, or that choice up-there is permanent?

Personally, I'd like to keep discussing it, and specifically, vote for anything that isn't it.

I dunno--FFG material rarely seems to come up in conversation around here. Or at least, Cheesegear has rarely talked about it, and he's the main source of the policy I mentioned as far as I'm aware.

I talk about FFG's material fairly often when I come here.

I tend towards the position that it's canon-unless-otherwise-mentioned.

Also, I was under the impression that DoW was considered non-canon not for its inherent video-game status, but because of numerous gross fluff inconsistencies, which I can't recall at the moment. (I guess it does portray the Alpha Legion as having fallen to chaos, rather than just going around being jerks)

[Hazzardevil]

I have no idea about how much the inner workings of the Inquisition are explained elsewhere, but FFg have actually written a crap ton on how the Inquisition is divided into puritans and radicals and goes into the inner workings of how they have an organisation or high-functioning sociopaths trying to "fix" the Imperium.

[Cheesegear]

Does anyone have any tangible proof of this, outside of Dawn of War fluff being very silly at times?

The games are not canon. The books - however rage-inducing they may be - are canon. It was a statement that somebody made into the lead-up of Dawn of War 2 that the fluff behind the first game was really, really bad and that DoW2 would try and step it up a notch - they didn't, but did they did add more nods to the wider 40K universe. Consider this, 40K fans talk about the 'Abnett-verse' all the time (they do), imagine that there's this other place, the Dawn of War-verse, where everything is kind of like 40K, but completely fails at being externally consistent with the setting that it's in.

The 40K RPGs, are largely considered canon - because a great deal of it is actually copy-pasted from other sources. But the stuff that is made up - i.e; Gunmetal City - is feasibly a place that could exist, which needs some real cleaning up by the Inquisition and its agents.

Basically, what is and isn't Fluff comes down to consistency. Kind of like how pre-Disney Star Wars had something like eight 'levels' of canon (?), and people taking serious part in a Star Wars conversation don't talk about about below level 3 or something. Or when you're talking about Superman, you don't bring up the stupid powers that he's only ever used once back in the 1950s. For 40K, That Thing We Don't Talk About, is Dawn of War.

EDIT: ...and Squats. Especially when you're somebody who isn't even old enough to remember when they were relevant. Because if you were old enough to remember, you'd know that they were actually kind of terrible, and they don't need to be brought back.

[*.*.*.*]

The 40K RPGs, are largely considered canon - because a great deal of it is actually copy-pasted from other sources

Doesn't one of the books say that C'tan draw their powers from the warp and ate the souls of the Necrontyr?

Also, why does the Space Marine creation tables list Salamander geneseed less stable than Space Wolf?

[Grim Portent]

Also, why does the Space Marien creation tables list Salamander geneseed less stable than Space Wolf?

The Black Dragons drag down the average stability of Salamanders geneseed.

More seriously, Space Wolf geneseed isn't prone to malfunctions to the same frequency as Salamanders.

[Beowulf DW]

So.. Hum.. Do we keep talking about the thread title, or that choice up-there is permanent?

It was voted on. And the centipede never came up in the voting.

[*.*.*.*]

More seriously, Space Wolf geneseed isn't prone to malfunctions to the same frequency as Salamanders.

But their only successor chapter devolved into wulfen monstrosities

[Grim Portent]

But their only successor chapter devolved into wulfen monstrosities

Yes, but that wasn't a fault with the geneseed mutating. It was a problem with the inherent nature of Space Wolf geneseed.

[Squark]

Space Wolf gene seed generally does exactly what its supposed to- the mark of the wulfen is theoretically a defense mechanism against chaos. The main issue is gene seed compatibility- The Canis Helix has a much higher retention rate among the people of Fenris, who have small quantities of lupine genes (There are no Wolves on Fenris. Just humans who didn't react well to the gene therapy).

[13_CBS]

Basically, what is and isn't Fluff comes down to consistency. Kind of like how pre-Disney Star Wars had something like eight 'levels' of canon (?), and people taking serious part in a Star Wars conversation don't talk about about below level 3 or something. Or when you're talking about Superman, you don't bring up the stupid powers that he's only ever used once back in the 1950s. For 40K, That Thing We Don't Talk About, is Dawn of War.

Ok, so the distinction is entirely informal (meaning, largely made by the fans rather than by an official source). Got it.

That said, as long as GW doesn't officially go out and say "Dawn of War is non-canon", then it seems like it's pretty valid for someone to say that, oh, a Tyranid Hive Fleet splinter attacked Subsector Aurelia and the Blood Ravens chapter drove them out, since it technically did happen in the 40k universe. Anyone who did may get confused looks, but nonetheless it's not on the same level as something like "Tyranids and Orks are actually humans" (which is factually false rather than questionably and confusingly true).

[Cikomyr]

It was voted on. And the centipede never came up in the voting.

The vote actually happened? I though we were still in the stages of proposing candidates

[Hexalan]

It was voted on. And the centipede never came up in the voting.

Because trolling Brother Oni is more important that democracy.

[Zorg]

Thought for the day:

Appeasement is a curse.

[Brother Oni]

I intend to remember and be here when we hit page 50

I was hoping that was less of a threat and more of an idle promise.

Necron Tomb Stalker? Or are there any other posthuman centipedes?

A reference to an earlier suggestion of what happens if Space Marines accidentally ingest their own faeces since their Omophagea can derive memories from what they eat.

Basically, what is and isn't Fluff comes down to consistency. Kind of like how pre-Disney Star Wars had something like eight 'levels' of canon (?), and people taking serious part in a Star Wars conversation don't talk about about below level 3 or something. Or when you're talking about Superman, you don't bring up the stupid powers that he's only ever used once back in the 1950s. For 40K, That Thing We Don't Talk About, is Dawn of War.

At least Space Marine has the decency to explicitly say it's an alternate universe game. The only problem is, fluff-wise it wasn't too bad, Captain Titus instead of Cato Sicarius aside and some mechanics over fluff choices with equipment like the Iron Halo.

EDIT: ...and Squats. Especially when you're somebody who isn't even old enough to remember when they were relevant. Because if you were old enough to remember, you'd know that they were actually kind of terrible, and they don't need to be brought back.

Or the 6-limbed zoats who were basically Warhammer Dragon Ogres. Or Ork/stealer hybrids. Or when Space Marines got buffed to a straight 4 stat line.

The vote actually happened? I though we were still in the stages of proposing candidates

I was wondering why Zorg started up the new thread so quickly - she's been waiting since before Christmas to use this title, hasn't she?

[Zorg]

I was wondering why Zorg started up the new thread so quickly - she's been waiting since before Christmas to use this title, hasn't she?

A commander must have the courage to see his plan through, for good or ill. Wars are won or lost when the battle lines are drawn.
- Tactica Imperium

[shadow_archmagi]

A commander must have the courage to see his plan through, for good or ill. Wars are won or lost when the battle lines are drawn.
- Tactica Imperium

Thought for the day:

Appeasement is a curse.

Well played indeed, Zorg. ++

Space Wolf gene seed generally does exactly what its supposed to- the mark of the wulfen is theoretically a defense mechanism against chaos. The main issue is gene seed compatibility- The Canis Helix has a much higher retention rate among the people of Fenris, who have small quantities of lupine genes (There are no Wolves on Fenris. Just humans who didn't react well to the gene therapy).

Oh, I didn't realize it was a defense mechanism. Source?

Also, I hadn't realized that the reason the successor chapter failed was to do with Fenris, which makes sense I guess? I had been really confused as to how a successor chapter could possibly fail; why would your geneseed go awry because your have a different color helmet now? But if the successor chapter's new recruiting world had, I dunno, less iron in their diet so they were just a bit less suitable to an already iffy genetherapy process...

[Squark]

Oh, I didn't realize it was a defense mechanism. Source?

Also, I hadn't realized that the reason the successor chapter failed was to do with Fenris, which makes sense I guess? I had been really confused as to how a successor chapter could possibly fail; why would your geneseed go awry because your have a different color helmet now? But if the successor chapter's new recruiting world had, I dunno, less iron in their diet so they were just a bit less suitable to an already iffy genetherapy process...

I believe the mention of defense mechanism thing dates back to codex: Black Crusade and the 13th Company list (The reason most of the company has managed to survive 10000 years within the Eye of Terror without mutating is the curse takes hold instead. As a result, every member of the company spends at least some of their time fully wulfened out), while the fate of the Wolf Brothers is elaborated upon in Battle of the Fang, as well as some exploration of where the Canis Helix's idiosyncrasies arose.

[Neon Knight]

I'm curious about Eldar Corsairs. Are being from a race as advanced as the Eldar really interested in the prizes to be found in the shipping of other races, which they typically sneer at? Why do so many outcastes gravitate towards a pirate's life?

[LeSwordfish]

Excitement, adventure, really wild things!

[Squark]

I'm curious about Eldar Corsairs. Are being from a race as advanced as the Eldar really interested in the prizes to be found in the shipping of other races, which they typically sneer at? Why do so many outcastes gravitate towards a pirate's life?

Piracy has never really been about money. In the past, people did it to escape slavery, press ganging, or the generally crappy life of being in the Navy during the age of sail. For the eldar, I imagine its mostly a case of Craftworlds being a rather oppressive life, and the life of an exodite isn't much better. Eventually, you just need supplies, same as the pirates of old, who were always hard up for medical supplies and decent food that wouldn't rot in a week.

[thethird]

Or Ork/stealer hybrids.

But but... I like the Octarius Empire. We need those. Please. Pretty please.

[Neon Knight]

Piracy has never really been about money. In the past, people did it to escape slavery, press ganging, or the generally crappy life of being in the Navy during the age of sail. For the eldar, I imagine its mostly a case of Craftworlds being a rather oppressive life, and the life of an exodite isn't much better. Eventually, you just need supplies, same as the pirates of old, who were always hard up for medical supplies and decent food that wouldn't rot in a week.

Hm, okay. I don't know much about actual historical piracy, and had assumed that GW didn't know much about either and had some fantastical explanation as to why Eldar Outcaste might take up piracy. I'm perfectly happy that there is a (potentially) quite realistic explanation for it, though, and I'll do some research on real piracy and see how much of it can be mapped onto the situation of an Eldar Outcast. Thanks!

[Grim Portent]

The novel Path of the Outcast has quite a stretch in which the protagonist is a corsair.

His motives boil down to 'he was bored and it seemed fun'.