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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: If it has stats... (Challenge to the playground)

    Quote Originally Posted by rockdeworld View Post
    Ah, I missed that part. In that case, my answer demands editing.
    Done.

    I can't stop laughing XD
    After dying and reviving he takes NI damage again.

    Try 9 with transport wish is now edited. Also, I didn't mean to imply ability damage - it's straight HP damage.
    My post is edited.

    Did Priya experience any time between damage and "just die"?
    Was their any time between reviving and damage?

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: If it has stats... (Challenge to the playground)

    Quote Originally Posted by rockdeworld View Post
    Ah, I missed that part. In that case, my answer demands editing.

    Done.


    I can't stop laughing XD

    After dying and reviving he takes NI damage again.


    Try 9 with transport wish is now edited. Also, I didn't mean to imply ability damage - it's straight HP damage.
    If Try 9 (the d2 Crusader) had a means to hit incorporeal targets, do they still miss in round 3? If they hit in round 3, do they still lose their abilities and die from NI damage in round 5?

    Alternatively, does anyone remember the record for number of rounds for Pun-Pun to ascend?
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: If it has stats... (Challenge to the playground)

    Quote Originally Posted by OldTrees1 View Post
    Did Priya experience any time between damage and "just die"?
    Was their any time between reviving and damage?
    Edited my last post too, since I missed one of your questions and was working on Kazyan's post, and made a mistake with reviving (you probably can't).
    For Priya: No, no time between them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalaska'Agathas View Post
    If Try 9 (the d2 Crusader) had a means to hit incorporeal targets, do they still miss in round 3? If they hit in round 3, do they still lose their abilities and die from NI damage in round 5?

    Alternatively, does anyone remember the record for number of rounds for Pun-Pun to ascend?
    They might still miss. I'd need more build details. As for the second question, you'll see.

    I always think of a banner someone had on the WotC forums (and maybe here too) that had a kobold writing the 7(?) steps to becoming pun-pun on a whiteboard. Couldn't find it with google though. IIRC it went something like:
    1. Be a level 1 kobold, knowledge check for Pazuzu, summon Pazuzu.
    2. Wish for a Candle of Invocation.
    3. Gate in an Efreeti
    4. Wish transport to the Astral Plane
    5. Wish for a Sarrukh
    6. Have it give you Manipulate Form
    7. Go wild
    Then a human says something like "not sure that's entirely rules-legal"
    And the kobold replies "Screw the rules, I'm a kobold!"
    Last edited by rockdeworld; 2014-09-07 at 09:01 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #34
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: If it has stats... (Challenge to the playground)

    Quote Originally Posted by rockdeworld View Post
    As to miracle, it might depend on the wording. Death of the multiverse, depends on how you go about it.
    *Looks*
    Ok, so I've 2 Rounds.
    1st Round, Standard Action: Upon hearing of the creatures existance and the death of high powered creatures I cast Miracle, requesting to know the Creatures True name specifying I'm not asking about Clones/Ice Assassins/Simulcrums/Astral Projections [Concept Cleric worshiping a concept that agrees, Miracle's power is unlimited.]

    1st Round, Swift Action: I use a Greater Metamagic Rod of Quicken to Use Miracle to request to be able to say the creatures true name. [Concept Cleric worshiping a concept that agrees, Miracle's power is Unlimited.]

    2nd Round, Swift Action: I use a Greater Metamagic Rod of Quicken to Use Miracle to request the creature and all copies of the creature such as astral projections, clones, ice assassins, Simulcrums, to cease exisiting, utalising it's true name to identify it. [Concept Cleric worshiping a concept that agrees, Miracle's power is Unlimited.]


    Now the question is, at what point in the second round does it kill me, or does it kill me earlier. This could be done by any level 18 Cleric if their domains grant Miracle, or any level 19 without, giving no immediate reason for the cleric to be retroactively destroyed unless the concept would cause such, in which case it then also needs to kill any gods that may agree with the miracles.

    In a varient to this, I attempt this in 1 round, this would give us the creatures CR as per the formula for determining the DC of the True-speak Check, assuming the speaker is told it when they roll.


    Edit: Pun-Pun
    Can traveling to the Astral Plane be skipped? And can any of those actions be done in the same round?
    Last edited by Erik Vale; 2014-09-07 at 09:06 PM.
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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: If it has stats... (Challenge to the playground)

    Divine Bard 15/Paragnostic Apostle 5. Casting Speak with Dead on the corpses of those who came before to learn about how they died, then making a Bardic Knowledge check at, I dunno, +30 (+15 Divine Bard, +10 Paragnostic Apostle, +2 synergy from K:History, +3 Intelligence bonus) to figure this out. Does the bard learn anything with a ~40 on bardic knowledge?

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: If it has stats... (Challenge to the playground)

    Quote Originally Posted by rockdeworld View Post
    Edited my last post too, since I missed one of your questions and was working on Kazyan's post, and made a mistake with reviving (you probably can't).
    For Priya: No, no time between them.


    They might still miss. I'd need more build details. As for the second question, you'll see.

    I always think of a banner someone had on the WotC forums (and maybe here too) that had a kobold writing the 7(?) steps to becoming pun-pun on a whiteboard. Couldn't find it with google though. IIRC it went something like:
    1. Be a level 1 kobold, knowledge check for Pazuzu, summon Pazuzu.
    2. Wish for a Candle of Invocation.
    3. Gate in an Efreeti
    4. Wish transport to the Astral Plane
    5. Wish for a Sarrukh
    6. Have it give you Manipulate Form
    7. Go wild
    Then a human says something like "not sure that's entirely rules-legal"
    And the kobold replies "Screw the rules, I'm a kobold!"
    I've seen that sig as well (back on 339 I think, and maybe BG/MinMax boards or even here. But I seem to recall someone having hit ascension in a timeframe reasonably measured in rounds (though I've not been able to find it with a casual googling). And then there's the possibility of Shaedling abuse, but I was never quite certain how that would work, in specific enough terms to propose using it.

    It's a vague question, but if Pun-Pun could ascend within say, 4 rounds, would that be sufficient to defeat your creation? Would 4 be too few? Would 5 guarantee your creation could take him out pre-ascension? Is this question insufficiently specific?
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  7. - Top - End - #37
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: If it has stats... (Challenge to the playground)

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Vale View Post
    *Looks*
    Ok, so I've 2 Rounds. <snip>
    Agreed miracle can do that in general, but in this case the miracles fail. The second fails for a different reason than the first. Also, 17th-level clerics get miracles too. The exact point in the round that it happens is unclear (based on what I've written), so let's say the end of the round. In this case 5 rounds, rather than 2. Then your character loses spellcasting/turn undead and takes NI damage.

    Re: Pun-pun: I'm almost sure I got some of those wrong, so don't take that as rules. It was mostly just in case it jogs someone's memory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kazyan View Post
    Divine Bard 15/Paragnostic Apostle 5. Casting Speak with Dead on the corpses of those who came before to learn about how they died, then making a Bardic Knowledge check at, I dunno, +30 (+15 Divine Bard, +10 Paragnostic Apostle, +2 synergy from K:History, +3 Intelligence bonus) to figure this out. Does the bard learn anything with a ~40 on bardic knowledge?
    Speak with Dead: They tell you they lost their abilities, then took NI damage/died for unclear reasons.
    Bardic Knowledge fails to get info.
    4 rounds after you begin, your character loses your abilities and takes NI damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalaska'Agathas View Post
    It's a vague question, but if Pun-Pun could ascend within say, 4 rounds, would that be sufficient to defeat your creation? Would 4 be too few? Would 5 guarantee your creation could take him out pre-ascension? Is this question insufficiently specific?
    Insufficiently specific
    Also I probably can't give a general answer.
    Last edited by rockdeworld; 2014-09-07 at 09:25 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: If it has stats... (Challenge to the playground)

    Hm, lemme take a stab at this...

    A: Trick question, the target is obviously Pun-Pun.
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  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: If it has stats... (Challenge to the playground)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sith_Happens View Post
    A: Trick question, the target is obviously Pun-Pun.
    Hah, no. I stick to what I said in the OP: I think this is weaker than the stuffy doll.

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    RedSorcererGirl

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    Post Re: If it has stats... (Challenge to the playground)

    Quote Originally Posted by rockdeworld View Post
    Agh, the reading (nice work on that build, IMO)
    Priya wins initiative without using any contingencies. However, she is somehow killed during the Time Stop. Specifically (tell me if she has any buffs active to stop any of these):
    In round 2 of effective time for her (i.e. when she's dancing to cast another time stop) an (Ex) effect strips her of all abilities, including class abilities like Spelldancing, but, ah, not her buffs, so she's still immune to damage, etc.
    So she survives the damage.
    Then she dies (no save, not a [death] effect*, just dies).
    *Even though that's cheesy. Sorry.
    Interesting! Note that Priya has more than just spell buffs: Does the (Ex) effect that strips Priya of class abilities penetrate the violet veil from Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil? (The veil is raised as her first swift action inside the Time Stop.) Also, does the no save non-[Death] effect that causes death penetrate a violet veil?

    Note the Priya build mentions access to the spell Astral Projection, and her equipment lists two demiplanes. Assuming the real Priya is in one of her private demiplanes, which is also protected by a violet veil, does she still die? If so is it just her astral projection, her real self, or both simultaneously that die?

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: If it has stats... (Challenge to the playground)

    The target is in Sigil, right? I'm not incredibly savvy on planar matters, but I should think that there's some reliable way to bring something to the Lady's attention, presumably that takes fewer than five rounds. Alert the Lady that an absurdly powerful being is hanging around in her city blatantly disregarding her will. Since the Lady has no stats, she trumps anything with stats.

    Of course, what the lady does in this situation is something we should probably ask Afroakuma for an opinion about. Not it!
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  12. - Top - End - #42
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: If it has stats... (Challenge to the playground)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruiser1 View Post
    Interesting! Note that Priya has more than just spell buffs: Does the (Ex) effect that strips Priya of class abilities penetrate the violet veil from Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil? (The veil is raised as her first swift action inside the Time Stop.) Also, does the no save non-[Death] effect that causes death penetrate a violet veil?

    Note the Priya build mentions access to the spell Astral Projection, and her equipment lists two demiplanes. Assuming the real Priya is in one of her private demiplanes, which is also protected by a violet veil, does she still die? If so is it just her astral projection, her real self, or both simultaneously that die?
    If I understand correctly, the Violet Veil doesn't prevent this, because it doesn't require Line of Effect. Death is a secondary effect of being targeted.

    Astral Projection: each instance of Priya, astral and physical, is targeted. So both, simultaneously.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urpriest View Post
    Since the Lady has no stats, she trumps anything with stats.
    Granted.

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: If it has stats... (Challenge to the playground)

    Quote Originally Posted by rockdeworld View Post
    Agreed miracle can do that in general, but in this case the miracles fail. The second fails for a different reason than the first. Also, 17th-level clerics get miracles too. The exact point in the round that it happens is unclear (based on what I've written), so let's say the end of the round. In this case 5 rounds, rather than 2. Then your character loses spellcasting/turn undead and takes NI damage.
    The second fails because the first fails, I can't say a name I don't know.
    My first guess is a wording of Mindblank.

    Clerics Brother *Because all adventurers have one* knowing the timeframe will perform the same routine, instead asking for the truename of the creature that killed his brother.
    If this doesn't work, he'll instead ask for his brother's truename and the ability to say it, and then miracle for the ceasation of the existance of the creature [and all copies] of the person that killed his brother, noting the truename.


    Since it's possible, let's give this character a clone and being Astral Projected. I wan't to know if he wakes up in his projected body and or his cloned body.

    Anyone have a link to the Emerald Legion?
    Edit:
    Ok, they're easy to find.

    Is one killed before they can breed the Emerald Legion into existence [Assuming you can't Miracle them into existence by succeeding arbitrary knowledge checks]?
    Last edited by Erik Vale; 2014-09-07 at 09:42 PM.
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  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: If it has stats... (Challenge to the playground)

    Fishing attempts 3

    Experiment 3
    Wizard(Destiny Domain) 10 Incantrix 10
    Instant Metamagic 2/day + Persist Spell + Foresight & Delay Death
    Foresight gives me warning on turn 1
    Turn 1: Write the foresight down (with instructions to do the hokey pokey and nothing else) twice
    Turn 2: Teleport the foresight Thru Time to a friend 40 years ago (with instructions to do the hokey pokey and nothing else)
    Turn 3: Teleport the foresight Thru Time to myself 20 years ago (with instructions to do the hokey pokey and nothing else)
    Turn 5: Die to "just die" and be bound in a soul gem?
    Last edited by OldTrees1; 2014-09-07 at 09:45 PM.

  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: If it has stats... (Challenge to the playground)

    Try 15:
    A wu jen 3/psion 7/cerebromancer 10 casts Body Outside Body (producing copies of himself which are able to manifest 9th-level powers). He then orders his copies to investigate any threats to himself, deal with them if possible, and report back to him once said threats are dead. The original character then manifests Time Hop on himself to jump forward 20 rounds (he has practiced manifester), and manifests it again 59 minutes (world time) after the first manifestation. The copies follow the order by manifesting Precognition, Metafaculty, Remote Viewing, Detect Remote Viewing, Detect Hostile Intent, and the like.

    Try 16:
    A sorcerer with Sanctum Spell and Heighten Spell uses Arcane Fusion to cast another Arcane Fusion and Heightened Prestidigitation, with the Arcane Fusion containing another Arcane Fusion and Heightened Prestidigitation, and so on, to change the color of a pretty marble a nigh-infinite number of times (the sorcerer in question has 3 Int and Wis, and is very easily amused).

    Try 17:
    A 20th-level wizard casts a Wish as follows: "I wish for the entity that's been killing all of these high-powered characters to gain 25,000 GP".

    My hypothesis is that this thing's killing abilities are triggered by anything that starts a limitless loop, or by anything which expresses any interest in it specifically. If this is true, the cerebromancer's BOBs will all die but the cerebromancer himself will not (because the cerebromancer himself is just interested in nonspecific threats and it's his BOBs doing all the work, and will not report back to him); the sorcerer will die (because he's started a limitless loop, even though he doesn't care about the Mysterious Entity); and the wizard will die (because he's taken an interest in the Mysterious Entity, even though it's in a way that benefits it).
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  16. - Top - End - #46
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: If it has stats... (Challenge to the playground)

    At this point I should probably just give every character 5 rounds, since Heliomance figured out the 1d4+1 delay, and there's unlimited attempts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Vale View Post
    Clerics Brother *Because all adventurers have one* knowing the timeframe will perform the same routine, instead asking for the truename of the creature that killed his brother.
    If this doesn't work, he'll instead ask for his brother's truename and the ability to say it, and then miracle for the ceasation of the existance of the creature [and all copies] of the person that killed his brother, noting the truename.
    Getting the truename of the creature that killed his brother fails. He gets his brother's truename and the ability to say it. The cessation miracle fails in what I'll come out and say is a successful saving throw, in the interest of fair knowledge (and in case there's a way around it that I'm not aware of). Death follows.

    Re: clone/astral projection: I'd need something more solid to give a response. "Random level 20 cleric casts miracle" is simple enough, but the Clone and Astral Projection spells both require line of effect, not to mention having a casting time. And I'm not sure what character you're talking about.

    Emerald Legion: yes, the cabal dies 5 rounds after beginning a capture attempt on a troll. I'm not sure they can be Miracle'd into existence, but if someone can prove me wrong that's fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldTrees1 View Post
    Turn 5: Die to "just die" and be bound in a soul gem?
    I'm not sure how Teleport Through Time works (and all links to it seem to be broken), but assuming it has the same casting time as teleport and lets you pick a point in time:
    Turn 2: Your once-friend is now hostile toward you and disregards the note.
    Turn 3: Your past-self is now hostile toward you and disregards the note (as part of "take risks to hurt you," eg. risk that he will die by "interfere"-ing with your plan).
    Turn 5: Yes. Both you and your 20-year past self. Not your once-friend or past self though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
    Try 15: <snip>
    Try 15: It seems the crunch on Precognition amounts to a +2 insight bonus. Metafaculty can target you, but not the creature. Remote Viewing fails. Detect Remove Viewing and Detect Hostile Intent reveal nothing. Then the copies are simultaneously stripped of their abilities and take NI untyped damage.
    Meanwhile the main version manifesting Time Hop on round 2 gives him 3 more rounds before the same happens to him, assuming he can survive 30 damage from slain BOB clones. Effectively 24 rounds after casting BOB.

    Try 16: NI is finite, so several rounds later death smiles.

    Try 17: He also dies (poor guy).

    Edit: Had to fix my response to OldTrees fishing attempt based on re-reading the rules.
    Last edited by rockdeworld; 2014-09-08 at 02:10 AM.

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    Default Re: If it has stats... (Challenge to the playground)

    +
    Quote Originally Posted by rockdeworld View Post
    Getting the truename of the creature that killed his brother fails. He gets his brother's truename and the ability to say it. The cessation miracle fails in what I'll come out and say is a successful saving throw, in the interest of fair knowledge (and in case there's a way around it that I'm not aware of). Death follows.

    Re: clone/astral projection: I'd need something more solid to give a response. "Random level 20 cleric casts miracle" is simple enough, but the Clone and Astral Projection spells both require line of effect, not to mention having a casting time. And I'm not sure what character you're talking about.

    Emerald Legion: yes, the cabal dies 5 rounds after beginning a capture attempt on a troll. I'm not sure they can be Miracle'd into existence, but if someone can prove me wrong that's fine.
    1: Miracle isn't duplicating a spell, and thus doesn't gain (Saving throw: Yes), is it still getting a saving through despite this?

    2 [Clone/Astral Projection]: The Cleric has these spells pre-cast as part of the usual 'If I die' contingencies [I.e. Some time before he became aware of the creature and attempted to attack it, he cast clone and has it existing, as well as casting Astral Projection], my question is, does the creature just kill the projection [thinking not], and does it prevent resurrection [Through Clone]?

    3: Miracle can do anything if the Diety [or Cause] accepts. The problem is knowing about the Emerald Legion, and I'm going to pretend that no one survives to or does the necessary research.
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  18. - Top - End - #48
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: If it has stats... (Challenge to the playground)

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Vale View Post
    1: Miracle isn't duplicating a spell, and thus doesn't gain (Saving throw: Yes), is it still getting a saving through despite this?
    Mmm, that makes sense. Then no, it doesn't get a saving throw, and yes, it's removed from existence. Congratulations! I've PM'd you the sheet and added your name to the OP.

    In the interest of other people getting info, I'll answer the other question: the cleric would die 5 rounds into casting the contingency.

    If anyone's interested in continuing the challenge against a creature immune to divine energies, I can tweak its stats to accommodate.
    Last edited by rockdeworld; 2014-09-07 at 11:43 PM.

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    Default Re: If it has stats... (Challenge to the playground)

    Quote Originally Posted by rockdeworld View Post
    I'm not sure how Teleport Through Time works (and all links to it seem to be broken), but assuming it has the same casting time as teleport and lets you pick a point in time:
    Turn 2: Your once-friend is now hostile toward you and attacks you with the intent of killing you (probably failing).
    Turn 5: Yes, or damage since it sounds like you're not immune. Both you and your 20-year past self. Not your once-friend though.
    http://archive.wizards.com/default.a...d/pg/20030409b

    1 round casting
    Targets: caster, objects and or creatures
    I chose only to teleport the messages. I remained in the present so I don't think my friend attacks me. Does my friend still become hostile? Does my past self still die on Turn 5?

    Doesn't Persisted Delay Death give immunity to death by damage until after the persisted buff is removed?



    Yes let it be continued.
    Last edited by OldTrees1; 2014-09-07 at 11:48 PM.

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    Default Re: If it has stats... (Challenge to the playground)

    Quote Originally Posted by OldTrees1 View Post
    I chose only to teleport the messages. I remained in the present so I don't think my friend attacks me. Does my friend still become hostile? Does my past self still die on Turn 5?

    Doesn't Persisted Delay Death give immunity to death by damage until after the persisted buff is removed?
    My mistakes. Yes to all those questions. Previous post edited.

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    Default Re: If it has stats... (Challenge to the playground)

    Quote Originally Posted by rockdeworld View Post
    My mistakes. Yes to all those questions. Previous post edited.
    Darn. I was hoping it only tracked my personal time line and not that of the note. However you have indicated that we can take NI actions before death provided they happen before 5 turns of rippling causality.

    Now to find a non open ended(non wish/miracle) way of killing it.

  22. - Top - End - #52
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    Default Re: If it has stats... (Challenge to the playground)

    Try 18:

    Jersey
    Psion 10/Thrallherd 10

    Jersey has, through Spell to Power Erudite thralls and Psychic Chirurgery, learned every spell and power printed in whatever sources are available for this challenge (I'm assuming official WotC content is fine, third party is not). Jersey, Jersey's two thralls (capable of manifesting Bestow Power or a 2-PP Augmented Synchronicity), and Jersey's Fission (capable of manifesting Bestow Power or a 2-PP Augmented Synchronicity) will be going on this little sortie.

    Jersey uses the Sieging Dreadnought trick (from the handbook in my sig), setting up his team for the day. Jersey's fission manifests an augmented Synchronicity; Jersey then manifests Reality Revision (or Wish, or Miracle, if you'd prefer) to transport the group to the target with his Synchronicity action; Jersey's thralls manifest Bestow Power on their Synchronicity actions; Jersey's fission manifests an augmented Synchronicity on his Synchronicity action, and so on. Jersey then proceeds to use his arbitrarily large number of standard actions to attack the target, regain his psionic focus, or recover power points, as necessary. Because he knows all spells and powers, he will begin with spells which offer no SR or Save, preferably those without an elemental descriptor. Even if he can only hit on a natural twenty, he will eventually do so, given his arbitrarily large number of actions. He will test each individual spell or power until he finds one which works, and then proceed to use said spell or power to render the target dead. Once the target is dead, he will manifest Reality Revision (or, again, Wish or Miracle) to travel to the next copy/clone/whatever of the target, and begins the cycle anew (still the same round, mind you). This continues until no further copies exist.

    I'm not sure what I'd to to ensure that the target remains dead, apart from the 'more powerful effects than these' clause in the Greater Reality Benders, and of course I'd prefer to use Miracle for that purpose, given the lack of a 'this may pervert your intent' clause, but that runs into the question of whether or not a Miracle cast by a Psion (or a Shadowcraft Mage, for that matter) counts as "divine energies" for the purposes of this challenge. And it wouldn't really be a non-open ended solution, in any case.

    This also assumes that the target is vulnerable to some spell or power which may be cast as a standard action, if none such exists, Jersey is pretty well sunk.

    So, at what point does Jersey get killed by the mystery target?
    No levelled malice
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  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Default Re: If it has stats... (Challenge to the playground)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalaska'Agathas View Post
    Try 18:

    Jersey
    Psion 10/Thrallherd 10

    Jersey has, through Spell to Power Erudite thralls and Psychic Chirurgery, learned every spell and power printed in whatever sources are available for this challenge (I'm assuming official WotC content is fine, third party is not).
    So, at what point does Jersey get killed by the mystery target?
    This point, it's a infinite loop as you're either abusing WBL or killing followers/cohorts for their replacement by Thrallherd.

    I've noted a error that would effect 2-bit-crusader, meaning he has to die differently, and a potential error as to targeting/finding things, these are being discussed now.

    Edit: Also, Miracle to kill it results in mutual destruction if I'm targeted by it's kill ability, which resurrections are no help with.
    Last edited by Erik Vale; 2014-09-08 at 12:58 AM.
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    Default Re: If it has stats... (Challenge to the playground)

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Vale View Post
    This point, it's a infinite loop as you're either abusing WBL or killing followers/cohorts for their replacement by Thrallherd.

    I've noted a error that would effect 2-bit-crusader, meaning he has to die differently, and a potential error as to targeting/finding things, these are being discussed now.

    Edit: Also, Miracle to kill it results in mutual destruction if I'm targeted by it's kill ability, which resurrections are no help with.
    I'm not sure that part of it is actually an infinite loop - the most efficient method probably would be, but it needn't be done all in one go. The Synchronicity/Affinity Field bit would qualify, however. But still, I'm interested to see what the killmail says.
    No levelled malice
    Infects one comma in the course I hold;
    But flies an eagle flight, bold, and forth on,
    Leaving no track behind.

    Andrew Eldritch Avatar by Lord Fullbladder, Master of Goblins
    Psionic Tricks Handbook (WIP!)

    Brainstorming thread for a Basic FAQ (WIP!)

    Oh, and you can just call me KA.

  25. - Top - End - #55
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: If it has stats... (Challenge to the playground)

    *No Response*

    Ok, from what I know of the thing from seeing it's sheet, here's what happens, assuming you make it past learning all the powers.

    Giant Clockwork creature in Sigil looks at you, immediately your thralls inside the sphere turn hostile.
    Assuming you survive their attacks, 5 rounds later you loose all your class features/etc, take NI damage, and die, turning into a soul gem which one of your ex-thralls promptly picks up.
    However, having NI attempts through 'brothers' and all the spells, are there any no save just die spells/powers, or spell/power that cause you to die on a succesful save [over time or not]?
    If the answer is yes, you manage to knock it unconscious before you die, but not kill it. However, you do have the ability to follow up with powers/spells of your choice [4 rounds worth, while fighting your ex-thralls that are stuck with you], it being unconscious, it counts as willing for spells [Harmless only I think.].

    As for me answering you, I'm allowed to share the sheet, so I'd imagine I'm allowed to share this knowledge.


    I'll point out now that my trick would not work as a cleric [my god becomes hostile and wants to kill me, along with all the other ones, instead requiring an arcane caster asking the universe for miracles through the divine domain granting feat and luck domain, and him managing to do it in one round, such as by asking the creature to be removed from the universe without trying to properly identify it to get past any such protections [which doesn't work anyway].
    I'll also point out, by wording, various gods would become aware of you and want to kill you on the first round, but as that hasn't been being used, I'm not going to start using it.
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  26. - Top - End - #56
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    Default Re: If it has stats... (Challenge to the playground)

    What happens if someone abuses Twinned Celerities to cast more Twinned Celerities? Unlike with infinite Time Stop, which you get extra subjective rounds, this method gives you infinite reactions without ever allowing your one round to end. You can literally keep acting indefinitely with no actual time passing. And once you get to act without anyone else getting to act, there's all sorts of shenanigans. Oh it uses X? I get an infinite number of actions before it uses X. And so on.
    Last edited by Belial_the_Leveler; 2014-09-08 at 07:22 AM.


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    Default Re: If it has stats... (Challenge to the playground)

    Out of curiosity, may I ask what happens if a Lich tries to challenge this creature?

    To be more specific:
    An ancient and rules abiding Dry Lich who has never tried any infinite loops. He has got his phylacteries scattered across time; stored in timeless demiplanes; and PaO'd as a vital part of another creature's body (someone important, let's say, the most important champion of the Church of a 20-divine-ranks god). Said Lich also has a way to negate damage, and his phylacteries are all, naturally, protected against divinations and usual means of detection.
    Would his body be destroyed? Would his phylacteries get targeted instead of his body? Or would both he and his phylacteries get targeted at the same time?
    If his phylacteries get destroyed - would the deity which had it's champion slain gain knowledge of who did it, and take action against it, or would it turn hostile to it's former favorite? (or even better - get it's portfolio sense triggered, and kill said being even before it could slay it's best "relic-bearing greatest hero ever born"?)

  28. - Top - End - #58
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    Default Re: If it has stats... (Challenge to the playground)

    O.k, I'll give my another shot at this. Statting up a level 20 character with wealth is a pain, so do excuse me if I speak in vagueness.

    Levels: dip in Sorcerer and Cleric, and a bunch of martial dips, including enough crusader to get my IL up to 12.

    Feats: Leadership, Multitasking, Imbued Healing, and the prereqs for such

    Equipment: +1 Ghost Touch Executioner Axe, +1 ghost touch shuriken.
    Auto-resetting repeating magic trap of Hide Life.
    Auto-resetting repeating magic trap of Sheild Other (x5).
    Auto-resetting repeating magic trap of Masochism and Sadism.
    Several thousand Ghostly Arm Grafts.

    Special: one of my stances is Aura of Chaos.

    Me and 5 poor suckers I have leadership for are arranged in a circle.

    Round1:I use my standard actions (Multitasking gives me several thousand) to use the trap of hide life on myself and and 4 of the suckers, as well as the Sheild other traps on all of them. Those 4 suckers also use their traps of sheild other on me. I use the trap of Sadism and Masochism on myself. I hit myself with one of the several thousand incorporeal touch attacks I now have. This creates an infinite damage loop for me and the 4 suckers with Hide Life and Sheild Other up (each of them take half the damage I take, and I take half the damage each of them take. With the 4, this creates a loop). I use another standard to use the Axe to sacrifice the 5th (as per BOVD). With the infinite luck bonus to K:religion, this gives me Wish, which I use to transport me and the 4 suckers to the creature's location. I then use another standard action to use the Executioner's Axe to execute the creature (as per BOVD), with an infinite bonus to the possibly required attack roll and Profession: executioner roll. If that fails (likely do to it either having to neck for me to chop off or it not counting as helpless), then I use another standard action to cast Cure Light Wounds on myself, triggering Imbued Healing (luck). I then throw the Shuriken at the creature, with a +infinite to-hit, doing infinite damage.
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  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Default Re: If it has stats... (Challenge to the playground)

    Y'know that Archivist that tried, and died, and then his brother tried, and got his soul trapped? The first one reanimates as a ghost, with his special purpose tied to taking revenge. What happens?

    A random commoner says aloud, "I wonder what's been killing all those high level people?"

    A random commoner thinks to himself, "I wonder what's been killing all those high level people?"

    A random king says aloud, "I should really get my spymaster to look into anything that could be a threat to me."

    A random king thinks to himself, "I should really get my spymaster to look into anything that could be a threat to me."

    A random king asks his spymaster to look into anything that could be a threat to him.

    A Psion 20 with hostile intent towards the creature uses the Save Game Trick.

    A Diplomancer travels to the biggest Planar Metropolis he can, gets together a crowd, makes as many people as he possibly can Fanatic with a single check, and tells them to kill the creature.
    Last edited by Heliomance; 2014-09-08 at 10:04 AM.
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  30. - Top - End - #60
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    Default Re: If it has stats... (Challenge to the playground)

    OK, attempt 20 30:
    I'll borrow a page from Tippy's book. A 20th-level wizard casts Shapechange, and turns into a Zodar. She uses the Zodar's Wish ability to wish for a caster level 9003 scroll of Ice Assassin, with the Mysterious Entity as its target. Casting Ice Assassin directly would require a piece of the Mysterious Entity as a component, but components are automatically included in scrolls. Casting Wish directly to produce this scroll would cost an insane amount of XP, but using it as a supernatural ability bypasses the XP cost.

    The wizard then turns into a Lilitu, giving her the ability to automatically use scrolls without needing a UMD check, and casts Ice Assassin from the scroll. She instructs the resulting Ice Assassin to go kill the entity (which is what it wants to do anyway, being an ice assassin), and then to do whatever it can to restore her, should she have fallen to it in some way.
    Last edited by Chronos; 2014-09-08 at 10:07 AM. Reason: Updated attempt number.
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