Erfworld thread IV: In memory of King Saline

[guttering flame]

If Albert is a mirror to Jillian, it is a very badly warped mirror. Jillian was often very upset with her father, but she never betrayed him, her side or the people under her command. Jillian and Banhammer where just to VERY different people. And the court treated her HORRIBLY just because she was a warlord. Which of course made her not want to be in Faq and never allowed things to get better. If Albert did kill one of his own people then he did something Jillian never would have really even thought about doing.

Jillian despised her father's pacifistic beliefs and his insistence on courtesy and nicesties. She went against those things whenever she could.

Albert sees no value in military order and the camaraderie of fellow warriors (which are Jillian's sacred mainstays) apparently or in fighting for your nation.

Jillian ruined her father's tea-parties. Albert ruins his mom's military exercise.

[-D-]

Yes

Initiate glare procedure.

Spoiler

Show

[Kantaki]

Initiate glare procedure.

Spoiler

Show

You were asking for it. Besides I was nice enough to elaborate. Shouldn't have bothered.

[-D-]

You were asking for it.

Oh common, I was joking

I don't hate you. Much ;)

[Kantaki]

Oh common, I was joking

I don't hate you. Much ;)

Would I take it serious I wouldn't have bothered to respond.

[HandofShadows]

Jillian ruined her father's tea-parties. Albert ruins his mom's military exercise.

Jillian never croaked one of her own and lied about it. (Unless this was a set up). And the military exercise was a test of his abilities as a warlord. Screwing it up is bad for him personally.

[guttering flame]

Jillian never croaked one of her own and lied about it. (Unless this was a set up). And the military exercise was a test of his abilities as a warlord. Screwing it up is bad for him personally.

Jillian and her father appreciated different things. To Jillian loyalty, camradeship and honesty are very important. To her father it was manners, niceties. Albert's crime may seem bigger but Jillian's father thought she was just as deviant and immoral.

[halfeye]

Jillian and her father appreciated different things. To Jillian loyalty, camradeship and honesty are very important. To her father it was manners, niceties. Albert's crime may seem bigger but Jillian's father thought she was just as deviant and immoral.

Except that Banhammer was wrong, and Jillian right, by Erfworld's standards.

[Kantaki]

Jillian and her father appreciated different things. To Jillian loyalty, camradeship and honesty are very important. To her father it was manners, niceties. Albert's crime may seem bigger but Jillian's father thought she was just as deviant and immoral.

I think Banhammer would be even more horrified by Albert than he ever was by Jillian. At least Jills character issues could be channeled in useful ways. Had he gotten Princess Anarchy as his heir old FAQ would have ceased to exist way before they could interact with any part of the plot.

[guttering flame]

I think Banhammer would be even more horrified by Albert than he ever was by Jillian. At least Jills character issues could be channeled in useful ways. Had he gotten Princess Anarchy as his heir old FAQ would have ceased to exist way before they could interact with any part of the plot.

I'm sure Jillian thinks Albert's character issues can be channeled into useful ways eventually. She's not disbanding him in the last update, is she?

[Kantaki]

I'm sure Jillian thinks Albert's character issues can be channeled into useful ways eventually. She's not disbanding him in the last update, is she?

She would if she could. More seriously using Princess Anarchy? How? I don’t see it. Well maybe to justify joining the battle herself.

[guttering flame]

She would if she could. More seriously using Princess Anarchy? How? I don’t see it. Well maybe to justify joining the battle herself.

She sends him on solo commando missions

[Kantaki]

She sends him on solo commando missions

But wasn’t the whole point of popping him to ensure the continiutation of Faq? Sending him on solo missions would risk that wouldn’t it? Letting him sit on his princess butt while she goes out to fight makes more sense. (for her)

[Porthos]

New Update.

Spoiler

Show

Remind me not to get on the bad side of Vinny!.

Also, Albert has a few more facets to his personality than we might have first thought. Some good (the whacamole), some potentially less so (already lusting after Vanna).

Makes me wonder if he and Parson will ever cross paths, and what would happen if they do.

[Kantaki]

Albert, what am I supposed to think about you? Showing compassion for another life. But you are still an selfcentered brat so...

I'm not sure what happened at the end. Lesson learned or not? Accident or not? Our little Princess Anarchy sleeps upside down? But he can't drain other Units... All very confusing, I will have to think about this for a bit.

[HandofShadows]

Spoiler

Show

Smart idea to have Albert stay with the soldier. Better idea that Vinny visited him. I am still getting the feeling that Albert was set up somehow.

[Doran]

Spoiler

Show

...isn't that the Dramatic chipmunk?

[Radar]

Spoiler

Show

Smart idea to have Albert stay with the soldier. Better idea that Vinny visited him. I am still getting the feeling that Albert was set up somehow.

Spoiler

Show

If there is anyone with means to do so, it would be Vanna. Whether she would be willing to do so, depends on her loyalties. She is AFAIK a contractor to FAQ, which means there could be someone from outside pulling the strings here. Aside from that, she has clearly Duncan under her charm, but we don't know, what will she use him for.

[HandofShadows]

Spoiler

Show

If there is anyone with means to do so, it would be Vanna. Whether she would be willing to do so, depends on her loyalties. She is AFAIK a contractor to FAQ, which means there could be someone from outside pulling the strings here. Aside from that, she has clearly Duncan under her charm, but we don't know, what will she use him for.

Spoiler

Show

Actually, I wonder if it isn't Vanna under Duncan's sway. Duncan is happy about who this turned out. While Vanna is not a happy camper.

[Killer Angel]

Spoiler

Show

I wonder if our Young prince is really telling the truth.
Maybe he was under a sort of rage... it could exist a trait like that for some combat units: they gain bonuses but don't think too much.
Maybe it's anunusual trait for royals, and it's still unnoticed even by his mother, but it could explain the "great shot" and "it was an accident"

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Spoiler

Show

I'm more going with the feature that perhaps Albert can't miss. Which means even though he's targetting an inanimate object, it instead went to a unit.

[Lizard Lord]

Spoiler

Show

I'm more going with the feature that perhaps Albert can't miss. Which means even though he's targetting an inanimate object, it instead went to a unit.

Except it didn't do that when he was showing off his specials when he first popped.

[Legato Endless]

Well that confirms at least that sex, or perhaps romantic entanglement, isn't quite so completely independent of heir popping as was previously assumed. It's not necessary, but it does have a definite potential influence.

Albert's a brat, but it looks like there's some good possibilities for development here.

[BRC]

Spoiler

Show

I'm more going with the feature that perhaps Albert can't miss. Which means even though he's targetting an inanimate object, it instead went to a unit.

Spoiler

Show

Eh, the dialogue implies that, according to the rules of erfworld, the target dummy was a valid target.

I think it's something deeper. Albert's Signamancy implies not just rebellion but anarchy. He's made of contradictions.

He's a Transylvitan, but without the life drain. He's a Royal who is an Anarchist. Jillian would have been a fine princess for a more martial kingdom, she was only rebellious because her personality clashed with that of her father. However, Albert is inherently contradictory, he's a Royal, which means authority, but his signamancy indicates that he should be rejecting the very authority he supposedly represents.


I'm wondering if Albert isn't Erfworld's immune system response to Parson. Parson is running roughshod over Erfworld by understanding, and exploiting, the Rules. He approaches the rules of the world from a purely mechanical standpoint, with no preconceived notions for how things are done. Remember Parson attacking the siege during the BFGK. Nobody involved even thought that strategic attacks on specific units, followed by a retreat to minimize losses, would be a good idea until they thought about it. The Rules reward sticking around to win the fight (Thus earning XP), so everybody assumed that was the correct move. Parson saw the Retreat option, not as a way to retreat from a losing battle, but as a way to minimize losses once you've taken out your real target.

Maybe Prince Albert inherently ignores any arbitrary rules he encounters. He has to respect the actual game mechanics of Erfworld, but he inherently ignores anything else that gets in the way of his true goals.

His mother told him to take part in the training exercise (That's an Order, so hey must Obey). She then set the arbitrary rule of "Target the Dummies".

Albert actually WAS trying to hit the dummies, but what he REALLY wanted to do was hit the guy who attacked him. Since "Only hit the dummies" was an arbitrary rule getting in the way of his true goals, he instinctively ignored it.

This means that Albert may eventually end up on the same playing field as Parson. He knows and respects the game mechanics of Erfworld, as he must. However, he ignores any preconceived notions about how to use or apply those mechanics. He has no concept of "Honor" or "How things should be done", only effectiveness.

Of course, he may not be as creative as Parson when it comes to finding exploits.

[Lethologica]

Whenever really, really bad luck is involved, I look for the Carny. (I'd look for Luckamancers if they were ever important.)

[Psychonaut]

Well, Clay Dice did manage to curse Wanda so badly that later that turn she lost her entire side and ended up serving under a complete psychopath.

[Aquillion]

People. People.

Albert killed the guy deliberately. I don't think there's any question about that, and I'm not sure how else I could read this page:

But a punch, of course, wouldn't change the truth.

"I'm a great shot," he said again, more quietly.

If he hadn't killed the guy deliberately, he would know that, and would keep saying it; it's not like he has any reason to concede to Vinny here aside from actual guilt. His line there is straight-up admitting it -- he knows what Vinny is saying, he knows what it means for him to choose "I'm a great shot" as his reply, and if there were some other explanation he would say something else.

There isn't. He knows the truth. He murdered a guy in a fit of pique. To the extent that it was an "accident", the accident was that he lost his temper for a moment. (Given his personality, I think he might legitimately think of it that way; I think he believes what he's saying. But, I mean, he also knows deep down that that means he did it deliberately.)

Also, as evidence, consider the lines immediately before it -- for a moment there, if he weren't bound by alliance, he would seriously try to hurt Vinny. If he had the authority to do so, he would seriously consider breaking the alliance in order to hit Vinny. For the crime of... pointing out the implication of Albert's own words, and making him admit to murder. Albert has a seriously nasty temper, so there's no reason to doubt that he murdered the guy; and, again, the intensity of his reaction to Vinny's words doesn't make any sense otherwise.

Beyond that, just from a narrative standpoint, I think it would be very terrible writing to have this not be deliberate murder. This is Albert's establishing scene -- we know almost nothing else about him. Sure, he could be mind-controlled into having done it, and then mind-controlled into believing he did it (although we have no reason to believe that anyone in the hex has that kind of power), but, outside that, narratively... doing that here? When establishing a major character? And then, presumably, later on, saying "no, no, it was all a trick, the foundational event that we gave you to help you understand this character and his development was all a cheap magic trick because politics etc etc" -- that would really be awful. It'd be taking the emotional heft of this scene and turning it into a lazy tweeeest in a way that would undermine his entire character.

[Kantaki]

But the question is not if it was an accident. Ist if Princess Anarchy learned his lesson. I hope not. 10 Quatloos Alberts attitude will only get worse.

[-D-]

There isn't. He knows the truth. He murdered a guy in a fit of pique. To the extent that it was an "accident", the accident was that he lost his temper for a moment. (Given his personality, I think he might legitimately think of it that way; I think he believes what he's saying. But, I mean, he also knows deep down that that means he did it deliberately.)

I think so too, but maybe he just wanted to hurt him and not murder him almost outright. I think he did murder him in fit of rage, based on his casual relation to the corpse. He has no remorse over what he did.

It'd be taking the emotional heft of this scene and turning it into a lazy tweeeest in a way that would undermine his entire character.

Judging from everything we know about Fate and Luckamancy and Rob, it could be either...

[Yanagi]

Well that confirms at least that sex, or perhaps romantic entanglement, isn't quite so completely independent of heir popping as was previously assumed. It's not necessary, but it does have a definite potential influence.

Another possibility is that he has Transylvito characteristics because his creation was primarily funded by Transylvito. Which sort of fits with the "game" logic of all "reproduction" being an economic act in Erfworld. Prince Albert is a joint venture, and Don King has majority shares.

It will be interesting to see if this is just a matter of Signamancy, or if there's some kind of hidden twist to Albert being half-Transylvito. Like him having low loyalty to Faq, or some kind of secret Loyalty/Duty to Don King.