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2015-02-05, 06:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Legend of Korra, Book 5: It's canon. Deal with it.
Meelo is annoying, but I've known his near twin MANY times. Side effect of working with kids, I suppose; hell, I'm typing this while I'm surrounded by middle schoolers. About half of them are Meelo's twin, full of bombast and bluster.
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2015-02-05, 06:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Legend of Korra, Book 5: It's canon. Deal with it.
Amon and Tarrlock we see blow up as a result of Tarrlock's actions - for that to mean anything other than them being dead would need explaining, not the other way around. The Earth Queen we see die and the entire show clearly treats her as dead, and Zaheer explicitly tells Ghazan and Ming Hua that P'li "gave her life for their cause." It's quite different from the situation with Jet in particular, which they even poked fun at themselves in Ember Island Players.
I could see that being the case for Korra, certainly. I just didn't think the line itself was meant to imply anything beyond Mako asking for an explanation about Asami knowing something about Korra's situation that he didn't.
I could see that. Asami does noticeably act differently with Korra even before their reunion in book 4 - in the first episode her tone immediately becomes more upbeat, even excited, when she talks about how Korra was supposed to be coming back that day, and we had that flashback that included her offering to go with Korra to the South Pole, which seems odd even given she thought it would only be for a couple of weeks at the time since Asami is the CEO of a big company in Republic City.
They weren't, actually. Korra didn't write to Asami until two years into her absence - she specifically mentions that in her letter, you might recall. And halfway into that second year is when she took off on her own to wander the Earth Kingdom. So they were corresponding for at most half a year of that, and we don't actually know for sure that Korra wrote to her regularly during that time.
We can rule that out anyway - we've seen how Korra acts when she's jumping into a relationship based on physical attraction, because that's exactly what she did with Mako, and that's clearly not what happens with Asami. Still, they've really got more like one year of friendship between them from before Korra's recovery period, which only really grew close after they both broke up with Mako, and maybe a little correspondence during the latter portion of Korra's recovery period.Toph Pony avatar by Dirtytabs. Thanks!
"When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis
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2015-02-05, 11:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
Re: The Legend of Korra, Book 5: It's canon. Deal with it.
Certainly Jet's case is even more vague, but that's even in comparison to Combustion Man's in ATLA. I did forget Zaheer mentioning that though, and they don't cut away as early as I thought in the Tarrlock/Amon scene, as you can actually see the flash of the glove while it focuses on Amon driving the boat.
Thanks to Elrond for the Vash avatar.
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2015-02-06, 08:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Legend of Korra, Book 5: It's canon. Deal with it.
Meelo starts out as a hyperactive kid in Book One, and crosses the line into being disturbing later on. I see him as an example of the creators' larger tendency for not knowing where to stop with their comic relief. See also Sokka, Bolin and Varrick.
It's not technically impossible for Amon and Tarrlok to have survived, provided the explosion itself didn't kill them, since Amon was still a powerful waterbender (). But the way it's framed leaves no ambiguity. Despite the utter lack of merit and quality the Book One finale otherwise displays, that was a powerful scene.
I could see that being the case for Korra, certainly. I just didn't think the line itself was meant to imply anything beyond Mako asking for an explanation about Asami knowing something about Korra's situation that he didn't.
I could see that. Asami does noticeably act differently with Korra even before their reunion in book 4 - in the first episode her tone immediately becomes more upbeat, even excited, when she talks about how Korra was supposed to be coming back that day, and we had that flashback that included her offering to go with Korra to the South Pole, which seems odd even given she thought it would only be for a couple of weeks at the time since Asami is the CEO of a big company in Republic City.Last edited by Morty; 2015-02-06 at 08:19 AM.
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2015-02-06, 05:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Legend of Korra, Book 5: It's canon. Deal with it.
Maybe. Perhaps Combustion Man wasn't the best example, but the point about Jet remains.
Sokka, Bolin, and Varrick were all actually funny at least some of the time though, even if not every joke of theirs was a winner. And Sokka and Bolin were pretty likable in general most of the time, as was Varrick once he grew a conscience. The only thing related to Meelo that I ever found funny or likable was a couple of his sisters' long-suffering remarks while having to put up with him, largely because I felt exactly the same way having to watch him.
Agreed. For whatever little it's worth, that was probably the strongest scene they ever made for either character.
Maybe, I suppose. Not the impression I got, but I wasn't thinking of it from that angle, either.Toph Pony avatar by Dirtytabs. Thanks!
"When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis
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2015-02-06, 06:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Legend of Korra, Book 5: It's canon. Deal with it.
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2015-02-06, 09:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Legend of Korra, Book 5: It's canon. Deal with it.
How much of that do you want to put on Bolin?
Also, Ikki, takes the prize in being the most unnecessary character.
Also, as long as we are on the unnecessary characters, Mako seemed to loose a purpose as soon as he was ejected from the love triangle, and weren't we saying Asami had no purpose as early as a season ago. I recall she was a "talking Appa" and just a lone mune in a group of Wushu wizards.
Sure, she gets the big prize in the end but didn't Varrick usurp her potential role as the gadget genius of the team and leave her once again in the role of spare tire?The laws of physics are not crying in a corner, they are bawling in the forums.
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2015-02-06, 10:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Legend of Korra, Book 5: It's canon. Deal with it.
That's a fairly accurate comparison, actually.
Basically, during the third and fourth season all of Korra's friends were pushed into a more secondary role in general. The spotlight remained primarily on Korra herself, the season's villains, and otherwise-secondary characters who happened to be relevant to the current plot point (the Airbenders, the Beifong family, Varrick and Zhu Li, Prince Wu). Asami got a reasonable amount of screen time in season 3 due to hanging out with Korra a lot, but Mako and Bolin had their roles reduced substantially, save for their fights with Ghazan and Ming Hua. In season 4 Bolin gets a reasonable amount of time due to working with and then defecting from Kuvira, but Mako and Asami are mostly just sitting tight in Republic City until the finale, save for Mako's brief appearances with Prince Wu, Asami's couple of scenes with her father, and the episode where they reunite with Korra and have to save Wu.
Essentially, Legend of Korra wound up working best with a focus mostly on Korra and the villains, with "team avatar" playing a more supporting role, rather than being nearly equal to the main character in prominence like in the original show. Probably at least in part because of the shorter seasons meaning there just wasn't as much screen time to go around as in Avatar.Toph Pony avatar by Dirtytabs. Thanks!
"When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis
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2015-02-06, 10:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Legend of Korra, Book 5: It's canon. Deal with it.
yea but the difference is that they are likable characters who actually seem to fit within the rest of the world. even Ikki is someone who I can picture someone in this world. Meelo just doesn't fit, from his art style, to his attitude compared to the entire rest of the airbenders, to how his humor is straight of less mature cartoons. Ikki is fine, don't you rag on all the other characters just because I made a criticism about the most unlikable character on the show that can be vaguely applied to all the others.
Ikki? I can see because she is an energetic wind counterpart to quiet bookish Jinora, we don't need a third kid or another foil. Ikki captures doe the energetic foil pretty well already, and if you want a young male airbender- well thats why we have Jinora's boyfriend, now don't we?
but really please. don't make something about Meelo into about a lot of people, because this isn't about unnecessary-ness by itself, this is about how Meelo in aggregate is the worst character on the show I can think of. I'd rather have a boring supporting character that is neutral than a hated jar-jar binks character, because at least a boring supporting character doesn't cause me mental cringing pain every time I see him on screen.
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2015-02-06, 10:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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2015-02-06, 11:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Legend of Korra, Book 5: It's canon. Deal with it.
Supporting characters that recur more than once in a blue moon, perhaps - Avatar was constantly cycling in new supporting characters for an episode or two, so I'd wager it wins out in total number. That one I'd peg on LoK being more grounded in set locations: Republic City for the entirety of season 1 and parts of every other season, then a split between the South Pole, Zaofu, and a handful of locations in the Earth Kingdom. The same supporting cast is around more consistently, which makes it seem larger without actually being larger.
Edit: Goddamn it, re-watching the finale may not have been such a great idea after all. I'm left really wishing the show could go on. Especially after Korra's line to Tenzin at the end there: "But I feel like I've only just begun. There's so much more I want to learn and do." I can't help but wonder if that's the show's creators' thoughts coming through.
It's almost the exact opposite of the situation with Avatar: TLA. With that show it felt only natural that things should end where they did, since the whole show was always about Aang's quest to defeat Ozai and end the war. Plus the show had been going downhill much of season 3, so it was less disappointing for it to come to a close. But with Korra having a plot-per-season format instead of a single unified narrative and feeling like it only hit its stride in its last seasons, it doesn't end up feeling like it had to, or even should have, ended there. But I guess it's clear enough that the odds of Nickelodeon reconsidering ending it are slim to none, leaning heavily in none's favor. Which leaves me pretty sad, all told.Last edited by Zevox; 2015-02-07 at 02:22 AM.
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"When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis
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2015-02-07, 01:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Legend of Korra, Book 5: It's canon. Deal with it.
I don't think judging characters by how "necessary" they are has much of a point. It's needlessly reductive. Even seemingly "unnecessary" characters provide colour and background. LoK does have a more consistent cast of supporting characters, despite having less time to flesh them out. It is a problem. But characters not getting enough attention or time is simply unfortunate, unlike when a character is actively aggravating, like Meelo or Bumi.
My reaction to Meelo is similar to my reaction to aggressive, in-your-face marketing. It feels like the writers keep shoving the character in our faces and saying "see how wacky and hilarious he is?". There's such a thing as trying too hard.Last edited by Morty; 2015-02-07 at 01:48 PM.
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2015-02-07, 01:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Legend of Korra, Book 5: It's canon. Deal with it.
Definitely disagree. It wasn't going downhill, not in any way I can agree to. Zuko's defection, and later Mai's defection, the finale, the Ember Island players and The Beach were amongst favorite moments of the show. It wasn't going downhill by any means. And it pretty much resolved all problems and ended. It tied loose ends and resolved most plot points (except Zuko's mom, for some weird reason).
In Korra I never felt any season came to a satisfying conclusion. Maaaybe season 2 came close, but then again season 2 ending mid season with Fade to black would have been for the better. Season 1 ended abruptly, season 3 was good but it felt very much to be continued. Season 4 ending basically dropped the bomb and left.Last edited by -D-; 2015-02-07 at 01:58 PM.
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2015-02-07, 10:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Legend of Korra, Book 5: It's canon. Deal with it.
The first half of the third season was largely filler, including my personal most disliked episode of the series, Nightmares and Daydreams. Other than that one I don't necessarily think any of the episodes were bad, but they were never as good as anything in the second season (or even much of the first I'd say), and except for the few cutaways to develop Zuko towards finally defecting they seemed to be mostly wasting time so that the Day of Black Sun could happen in the exact middle of the season.
From Day of Black Sun up through Boiling Rock things got better. Ember Island Players I could've done without, though I'll readily admit part of that is because of how much time was wasted in the first half. Lacking that I'd be more receptive to it. But as-is it feels like they missed out on a lot by having so few episodes between Zuko finally joining the group and the finale, and then spending one on Ember Island Players rather than the group actually doing anything.
And the finale itself, well, I'll give it credit on two things: one, Zuko and Iroh's reunion, which was one of the most touching scenes in the entire show. Two, Azula's breakdown and fights with Zuko and Katara. Other than that, I found it pretty disappointing, especially with how it ended via deus-ex-machina.
In Korra I'd say both season 3 and 4 end well - aside from season 4 leaving me wishing it wasn't the end at all, as I mentioned in my edit above. Season 1 ended in a ridiculously rushed and unsatisfying fashion, no arguments there, possibly the biggest let-down in either series. Season 2 also ended quite poorly though, with yet another deus-ex-machina solving things, and it was frankly pretty weak all around even before that ending.Toph Pony avatar by Dirtytabs. Thanks!
"When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis
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2015-02-08, 06:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Legend of Korra, Book 5: It's canon. Deal with it.
The third season of ATLA has problems, but it also includes some of the best episodes in the series. The first half is indeed fillerish, with the characters making it explicit that they're basically waiting for the invasion to start. Sokka's Master is a great episode, though, and I'll fight anyone who says otherwise. The guy badly needed some spotlight, and an on-screen training session allowed the writers to make him more useful in later episodes. The invasion itself is one of my personal favourites, of course. After the invasion, the biggest issue is, I suppose, that Zuko never gets a chance to really integrate with the rest of the Gaang. He goes on a life-changing field-trip with each of them, but that's not quite enough. The finale itself has the problem of ending with a sudden power-up out of nowhere.
In LoK, I also like the Season 3 and 4 finales. They're not perfect, but they're good enough. As for the first two, I'd put Season 2 finale above the first one. I mean, yes, the final battle is an overblown back-and-forth of inexplicable sudden power-ups, spirit lasers and glowing teenagers, but at least there is a final fight. Which is actually entertaining to watch while they're still using bending, rather than lasers. Korra's decision to keep the portals open comes out of nowhere and makes little sense due to the show's failure to present the Spirit World convincingly - but it is a big, status quo-shaking thing that fits into the central conflict of the story, and the villain's own goals. The loss of Korra's previous lives is an actual grievous consequence amidst all the absurdity. Compare that to the first season, where the villain curb-stomps the heroes and proceeds to defeat himself, at which point his followers disband off-screen. The central conflict of the story is entirely ignored and all consequences are fixed with magic.Last edited by Morty; 2015-02-08 at 06:54 AM.
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2015-02-08, 01:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Legend of Korra, Book 5: It's canon. Deal with it.
I wouldn't go that far. I think pretty much everything that I would identify as the best episodes in the series are in season 2, personally. Maybe a couple from season 1.
While I've got no problem with giving Sokka some spotlight, I think doing it that way wasn't a great idea. Simply because he just didn't get to use his swordsmanship skills much afterward, because surprise surprise, Nickelodeon was never going to let them show anyone getting injured by a bladed weapon, and pretty much every enemy he faced was a Firebender, not a swordsman, so he couldn't even be clashing blades with anyone. He was fine with his boomerang as far as contributing to a fight goes, because that they could actually show him hitting people with.
Agreed, that's quite a source of disappointment. There's not a single episode between Zuko joining them and the finale where the group actually does something as a full group - just episodes with Zuko and one of the others, then Ember Island Players, then the finale.Toph Pony avatar by Dirtytabs. Thanks!
"When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis
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2015-02-08, 07:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Legend of Korra, Book 5: It's canon. Deal with it.
Would Korra Season 2 have been better if it were done as an OVA/Movie Series instead of an actual tv season? Of course there are many things you can do to improve Korra Season 2, but with no editing of the actual content if you just package the arcs of Season 2 together as mini movies I think it would work a whole lot better. Then all you need to do is just have some “intro” to each arc just like you have the pro-bending announcer.
Each episode is about 23 to 24 minutes so we are talking about
Part 1: South Pole Arc (96 Minutes)
- Rebel Spirit-> The Southern Lights -> Civil Wars Part 1 and 2
Part 2: Republic City Arc (48 Minutes)
- Peacekeepers -> The Sting
Part 3: Beginnings arc (48 Minutes)
- Beginnings Part 1 and 2
Part 4: Stopping Unalaq from releasing Vaatu arc (48 Minutes)
- The Guide->A New Spiritual Age
Part 5: Finale (72 Minutes)
- Harmonic Convergence->Darkness Falls->Light in the Dark
In effect this is a 3 act play that has been extend into a 5 act play. Originally we think the conflict is the civil war, but in reality it is the spiritual crisis Unalaq is manipulating from behind the scenes. And thus Act 2 and 3 are about how Act 1 is really a lie (the inciting incident), and Act 4 is the real “act 2” (the confrontation) before the final act (the resolution).
All you need is keeping the acts together like books instead of episodes and then a good voice over which acts like the prologue to each book framing the conflict nicely for the viewer.
----
Now of course Korra Season 2 could have been so much better, but I am trying to “salvage” what is in reality a good show even if it’s the worse season. Still even at Korra’s lowest it is so much better than 80 to 90% of the other stuff on tv.
Now Book 3 and Book 4 work great as tv seasons.Stupendous Man drawn by Linklele
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2015-02-08, 07:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Legend of Korra, Book 5: It's canon. Deal with it.
Toph Pony avatar by Dirtytabs. Thanks!
"When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis
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2015-02-08, 07:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Legend of Korra, Book 5: It's canon. Deal with it.
Unfortunately, that's quite true. I did like Piandao as a character, though, minor as he might have been.
Agreed, that's quite a source of disappointment. There's not a single episode between Zuko joining them and the finale where the group actually does something as a full group - just episodes with Zuko and one of the others, then Ember Island Players, then the finale.
Not really. It forms a logical progression with the third and fourth seasons and doesn't suffer from an unreasonably tight format like the first one. The problem with it is straightforward - it has numerous writing mistakes and wastes a good deal of its time.My FFRP characters. Avatar by Ashen Lilies. Sigatars by Ashen Lilies, Gullara and Purple Eagle.
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2015-02-10, 07:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Legend of Korra, Book 5: It's canon. Deal with it.
The laws of physics are not crying in a corner, they are bawling in the forums.
Thanks to half-halfling for the avatar
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2015-02-10, 11:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Legend of Korra, Book 5: It's canon. Deal with it.
The comic book that revealed Ursa's fate is, apparently, controversial. I know what happens there, but I haven't read it, so I have no opinion.
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2015-02-10, 11:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Legend of Korra, Book 5: It's canon. Deal with it.
What sort of controversy?
Spoiler
At one point, they seem to indicate that Zuko is not Ozai's son, which has very troubling implications (The Good Zuko is good because he's not actually related to the evil Ozai, while Azula, who is Ozai's biological daughter, is evil).
But I thought they revealed that was just Ursa testing to see if Ozai had intercepted her letters (he had).
Was that the Controversy, or was it just general dissatisfaction with the book.
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2015-02-10, 12:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Legend of Korra, Book 5: It's canon. Deal with it.
Spoiler: The Search ComicThe complaint seems to be that Ursa is out of character - after being established as ready to sacrifice everything for her children, she willingly forgets about them. Which also clashes, according to some, with her telling Zuko never to forget who he is.
I'm not sure if I buy it, since Ursa wasn't really defined enough to be out of character, as I see it. What little we saw of her was through Zuko's childhood memories, and they're not necessarily accurate. But I'd have to actually read the comic to formulate an opinion.My FFRP characters. Avatar by Ashen Lilies. Sigatars by Ashen Lilies, Gullara and Purple Eagle.
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2015-02-10, 01:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Legend of Korra, Book 5: It's canon. Deal with it.
Spoiler: The SearchI don't really know what the majority of people thought about it, but for me it was pretty underwhelming. The false hints that Zuko wasn't their son, the clashing philosophies of Ursa, and another poorly written romance story. Then there was the spirit plastic surgeon, who can also edit memories. So in this case, Zuko's mom decided that she couldn't just change her face, she willingly erased her memory and started a new life as someone completely different. And then, if I remember right, she reverses it all anyway, becoming Ursa again with all her memories intact, making the whole sacrifice pointless.
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2015-02-10, 04:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Legend of Korra, Book 5: It's canon. Deal with it.
Now that you mention it, I do remember reading some comics, but they were boring so I stopped caring about them.
Fine, I just don't believe that ATLA finale was as bad as you make it, I'm pretty sure they were foreshadowing Lion Turtles for quite some time. It's still an Ass Pull, albeit not completely unexpected - it's a kids show more or less, it's not going to end with Avatar murdering Ozai or Ozai just killing Avatar.
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2015-02-10, 04:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Legend of Korra, Book 5: It's canon. Deal with it.
The foreshadowing for the Lion Turtle. There was a picture, a very stylized one at that, in the spirit library, in one frame of background, in the middle of season 2.
That's it."I Burn!"
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2015-02-10, 05:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Legend of Korra, Book 5: It's canon. Deal with it.
I've never read the comics, so I have no opinion on that topic. Though the mention of that does make me kinda hope they do some post-series comics for Legend of Korra.
Of course not. But that doesn't mean that making the solution to what to do with Ozai "get a never-before-mentioned new power at the 11th hour that fixes the problem perfectly" is anything less than terrible writing and completely unsatisfying as a conclusion.
One of the gang also says "look, a Lion Turtle!" while holding a book that had a picture of one in that library. But yeah, not like that's any better. That's not actual foreshadowing, it's an easter egg no one understood until after the finale.Toph Pony avatar by Dirtytabs. Thanks!
"When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis
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2015-02-10, 05:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Legend of Korra, Book 5: It's canon. Deal with it.
Actually there were a few statues of them here and there in the background. I believe Piandao had one at his place.
A statue also apparently featured prominently in their pilot episode (the test one that was unaired) and they apparently had concept art of them from the beginning. Technically that means that Korrasami was more unplanned than the lion turtles ever were.Avatar based on artwork by Jabari Weathers
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2015-02-10, 05:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Legend of Korra, Book 5: It's canon. Deal with it.
Planning something and properly foreshadowing it in the story are two very different things. It was known that Lion-Turtles existed, but that's not really the same as expecting that one might show up and grant Aang energy-bending so he can depower Ozai.
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2015-02-10, 06:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Gender
Re: The Legend of Korra, Book 5: It's canon. Deal with it.
They really did need to do some more foreshadowing on what Lion Turtles were and what they can do. As far as we knew, they were just another creature in the setting, not some all-powerful manipulator of life energies.