Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIII: I Do Not Like Green Tides and 'Hann

[Grim Portent]

Cult Mechanicus Robots up for preorder! I think I'll definately get a box, this army really hits a good spot with me. Though I don't know if waiting for the AdMech book will be better than just getting Cult Mechanicus now...

You might as well wait to get the book, it'll take time to get your models into a playable state anyway.

[Grim Portent]

For fun I decided to throw together a 500 points R&Hs list. It's quite amusing to build a 500 point list that fields more models than my chaos marines do at 2000.

Spoiler: Master of the mini-horde

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Renegade Command Squad: Master of the Horde, Command Vox Net - 70

Platoon Command Squad: 10 extra renegades, 2 autocannons, lasguns - 80

Infantry Squad: 10 extra renegades, autocannon, lasguns - 70

Infantry Squad: 10 extra renegades, autocannon, lasguns - 70

Platoon Command Squad: 10 extra renegades, autocannon, lasguns - 70

Infantry Squad: 10 extra renegades, autocannon, lasguns - 70

Infantry Squad: 10 extra renegades, autocannon, lasguns - 70

118 models, 125 if we count the weapon teams as 2. Every unit except the command squad is put into reserve on a 5+ if destroyed. They shoot like Orks, and it would probably be smarter to knock a few models off and spend the extra points on BS3 for some of the units, but where's the fun in that?

[JNAProductions]

Just imagine fielding that X4 at 2000. 500 models of pure fun.

[Grim Portent]

Just imagine fielding that X4 at 2000. 500 models of pure fun.

At 3 points per model there's plenty of fun to be had with renegades, if I had the codex for astra militarum I'd compare boosted up renegades to guardsmen and see how the points compare for a full unit.

You can buy them things like armour (they start with none) and BS3 for 5-10 points per unit, and with Master of the Horde on your HQ you can take the infantry squads in 30 man units, 3-5 per troops slot, with the platoon command squad being identical to the other infantry squads, so each troops slot maxes at 150 models.

A quick bit of maths makes it look like 600+ models at 2000 points. All BS2 and with no save though.

[Cheesegear]

I had Ahriman get Iron Arm and Warp Speed in an apocalypse game. He killed two knights in two successive rounds of combat.

Ahriman was in a bad place in 6th.
In 6th Ed., you paid a boatload of points to be able to shoot three Witchfires a turn. But, in order to do that, you had to have three Witchfires. Which was a crippling waste of time. Since pretty much every Witchfire that Ahriman could get reliably, did different things to different units, and it was cripplingly inefficient for Ahriman to do that, since for like 100 Points less, you could simply have an ML3 Sorcerer with a Spell Familiar. Meaning that you were paying through the nose for Ahriman's Warlord Trait, which is replicated on Huron. So, for 285 Points - to Ahriman's 230 - you could have Huron and a Sorcerer. Remembering that Huron has ML1, and there's your ML4. And that's before you go into how stupid easy it was to Deny the Witch in 6th.

7th Ed., revamped Ahriman entirely. His Warlord Trait took a hard nerf. But so did every single Independent Character without Infiltrate who liked Infiltrating anyway. But, as I've very recently pointed out, that's pretty much been fixed by the Fallen Champions Formation (Cypher) which gives Chaos Marines natural Infiltrators, which helps out that particular Warlord Trait immensely.
But, Ahriman himself, has become a machine. He can now shoot the same Witchfire, three times. Which means, that now instead of throwing his MLs into four different Disciplines hoping for 3 Witchfires that barely synergise, Ahriman only needs one, good Witchfire, which he can pretty much choose to have, based on his opponent. Then, he can spend his other two Powers on rolling for buff spells, and actually being a real powerhouse. But, that's not all, Witchfires, in 7th Ed., can be cast at different targets. Ahriman, can cast the same one, three times. If he's in a decent position, Psychic Shriek is a 'Nova' now. Brilliant. Ahriman - in his role as Blaster-Mage - actually works! Not to mention, that in 7th., Denying the Witch is a lot harder, and at ML4, there's only a handful of things in the game that can shut him down, and those few things can't cover three units' worth of Denial power. Now Ahriman is actually worth his points cost and completely blows Huron out of the water.

Basically, Psykers work differently in 7th, and Ahriman specifically was further Errata'd on top. The only problem is, you can't make an entire army out of Thousand Sons - because apparently that matters. I don't know why, since building an entire army out of Terminators sucks, too. Building any army that consists of only one, spammed unit sucks, regardless of what unit it is. It's been proven with Unbound lists, don't see why Thousand Sons should be any different except for fanboyism.

No. 'Draigowing' was never good. It was a gimmick list that was dealt with swiftly and harshly.

[Manticoran]

What's a Draigowing?

[Cheesegear]

What's a Draigowing?

A relic from 5th Ed. that seemed OP at the time of printing. Gained widespread use because it was cheap to build, because it only had like, 20-25 models in the entire army. Was very good in casual metas where what people have is what they can afford/like, and thus, a whole bunch of 'casuals' complained about how powerful it was. Competitively, it was very easy to deal with.

[LeSwordfish]

So some preliminary thoughts on putting together an Eldar Jetbike list - does anyone mind sanity checking me on this?

• Scatter Lasers are great, but I'm not convinced that they're that much better than shuriken cannons. One extra shot, in exchange for Bladestorm? I'm not sure how much is out there that warrants S6 that doesn't also appreciate the occasional AP2 hit. (What's T4 6+? Orks?)
• Also, cannons benefit from the 1-per-turn-Shred offered by the Windrider host.
• Except, why ever take the host? It has 90pts tax, minimum, (warlock and vyper) offers no benefit but the shred (since jetbikes can't run) and means that everything else you'd want to take comes with extra restrictions. (Sure, i'll augment my Jetbikes with some Fire Dragons in a wave serpent. Except I also need two other squads of something?)
• Warlocks are way less good than they used to be since now you divide them up at list creation. Warlock conclaves are all-or-nothing. 6/14 warlock powers only boost their own unit, so they have to be a deathstar themselves - for 35/50pts each. With a (3+/)4++. The skyrunner in the host is an insult - its a 50pt tax and a free kill point. Warlocks in squads is okay? I guess?

So yeah, a Jetbike force needs a CAD. I'm probably mostly going to be around the 750-1000pt area. This list mostly runs with the models I already have/can get easily, but i'm starting from a fairly small basis so can go in any direction.

Codex: Craftworlds CAD
Autarch - Laser Lance, Eldar Jetbike, Mandiblasters - 105

Jetbikes x6 - Shuriken Cannons - 162
Jetbikes x6 - Shuriken Cannons - 162
Jetbikes x6 - 102

6 Wraithguard - Wave Serpent, Bright Lances - 307

Falcon - Bright Lance - 130

How's that as a start? Total 968 points, so I can buy some more bikes, or something else. I think I need some anti-flyer - Swap the falcon for a Crimson Hunter? Or can I rely on the sheer damage of Wraithcannons to make the odd Skyfiring hit count?

[Drasius]

Scatter lasers are great because 1 more shot and 36" range compared to rending-but-not-really on MEQ troopers means you're able to dictate range with more safety. What's better than 3+ armour and 4+ jink? Not being in range to be shot at, even with a ****ty assault move roll.

You take the host to give everything else a 6" run move, specifically, wraithguard and to a lesser extent, spiders, fragons and the avatar.

Yeah, BS5 fragons are great, but it's not like reapers aren't incredible, especially at BS5, then a re-roll against fliers, bikes and vehicles that went flat out or turbo boosted or jinked. Ignoring jink for free is alright, I guess [/sarcasm]. Swooping hawks are also pretty rad, able to deliver a prescision strike where every you need it, move 18" and cause haywire hits on fliers.

Nothing in the Eldar book is terrible, with very few units even coming close to bad, though I wouldn't be putting Rangers or Storm Guardians up for any awards for excellence any time soon.

Your bikes cover the majority of your anti infantry needs, grab a farseer on a bike to cover HQ and psychic shenanigans then grab your anti tank (fragons or wraithguard in serpent, prisms, brightlance spam) and anti flyer (crimson hunter, vypers/war walkers with EML, dreapers) of choice, then fill out with stuff you like as redundancy for the other things in your army as per your meta. Or just spam D weapons like a D-Bag.

[Closet_Skeleton]

I find it hard to think of any situation where a Autarch is better than a Farseer making the rest of your army better.

12 Shuriken cannons should be able to kill flyers. The problem isn't being able to kill flyers, its that soaking up fire is what your opponent wants his flyers to be doing against your kind of list.

[LeSwordfish]

Eldar missile launchers already come with Sky****er missiles, right? (I may not know the terminology yet.) That's pretty good - I was wondering why they were so much. I'll bear them in mind, definitely.

Good point on the range.

The autarch was a case of "already have the model"- but I have a cool idea for a farseer-on-bike conversion lined up so he can go.

[hamishspence]

They didn't before - but now they do. Before, only War Walker missile launchers had access to them - and had to pay extra.

Now, all Eldar Missile Launchers come with them as standard - at no extra cost.

[Tehnar]

I'm still processing the new stuff in the Eldar book, but here are some ideas:

Swooping Hawks were very good before, now they are super good. 18" movement means you can easily charge on T1 if enemy is not careful with placement.

I think the Crimson Hunter should be your go to AA option, followed by Dark Reapers behind a Aegis with Icarus lascannon and S8 missile upgrades. Guardians in a battlehost are not bad either when they get their free platforms.

[lord_khaine]

They didn't before - but now they do. Before, only War Walker missile launchers had access to them - and had to pay extra.

Now, all Eldar Missile Launchers come with them as standard - at no extra cost.

So now Dark Reapers are a huge "screw you" to just about anything in the air?

[LeSwordfish]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Dark Reapers get to ignore Jink and re-roll to hit flyers, but they're still not using Skyfire, are they? Plonking them behind an icarus lascannon, sure, but otherwise they're 33 points per model for Ignores Cover Twin-Linked Krak missiles. (or two s5 shots) That's great and all but i'm sure i'm missing something.

[Tehnar]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Dark Reapers get to ignore Jink and re-roll to hit flyers, but they're still not using Skyfire, are they? Plonking them behind an icarus lascannon, sure, but otherwise they're 33 points per model for Ignores Cover Twin-Linked Krak missiles. (or two s5 shots) That's great and all but i'm sure i'm missing something.

Rerolling to hit is not that bad, but I wouldn't consider them heavy duty AA unless you bring the Icarus as well, or find a skyfire nexus.

They do well against flyrants though.

[Trixie]

Hm, is there a way to make a fluffy but still semi decent army based off Renegade but not Heretic chapters like the Night Lords or Crimson Slaughter? The type of chapters that haven't fallen to Chaos but are still technically "Chaos Space Marines", so eschewing any Daemon type units or other "corrupt" units? Or would it be better to play them as Space Marines and just make them look all Renegade-y?

Well, there is Tyrant's Legion list available semi-free from Forge World (as in, unless you use only stuff available in free PDFs from their website you're going to need 1-2 books with profiles of more exotic things they can field). Big appeal in it is that it's really evil, competent Space Marine (with human auxilia) army that eschews all the chaotic idiocy and daemons for BIGGER GUNS. And with undertones of Legiones Astartes of Great Crusade (which is probably only really legal way to field 30K units in regular WH40K). Oh, and has several units with possibly highest modelling opportunities in game if you're into that. I was intending to cover it, but had been sick recently, will maybe get around to that later

[Psychotic]

Spoiler

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Crusader is probably a touch overcosted but still pretty good, warden or paladin are both excellent choices. I'd probably lean towards the Warden since you should reliably get ~ 8 hits from shooting while the battle cannon might only generate 6 if your opponent can space his models worth a damn. Also means way more hits vs single targets like monsterous creatures. If your opponents like to deep strike a lot or has lots of medium to heavy tanks though, then the favour swings back into favour of the Paladin or Errant.

I've got 4 that can be swapped between Paladin and Errant, but I think my new one will be a Warden, as there isn't many situations (bar facing off agaisnt other knights) where the gatling cannon isn't a good choice. Warden would also fit thematically with the Fists all bolters all the time shtick.

Spoiler

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Isn't it more Assault Cannon than Bolt Cannon, what with being rending?

Still fits thematically with terminators though. You could even paint it yellow and give it an Imperial Fist symbol on its banner - since at least one Knightly House (Hawkshroud?) has that color and a long history of teaming up with the Fists (and a few other chapters).

Thanks for the thoughts. I was leaning towards the Warden just because it brings a gun that has no equivalent in the Space Marine list and this helps me reach a better decision.

Just for the giggles of it, has anyone had any thoughts (or even practice, at this point?) on how well the Knight Gallant would perform? I sat down and did a lot of crafting and think that my usual army lists don't usually have any problems shooting things to death. Using a Knight for its CC abilities seems awfully inefficient to me though.

[lord_khaine]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Dark Reapers get to ignore Jink and re-roll to hit flyers, but they're still not using Skyfire, are they? Plonking them behind an icarus lascannon, sure, but otherwise they're 33 points per model for Ignores Cover Twin-Linked Krak missiles. (or two s5 shots) That's great and all but i'm sure i'm missing something.

Didnt all Eldar missive launches get skyfire now? that would certainly be quiete a hit when shooting at things in the air.

Rerolling to hit is not that bad, but I wouldn't consider them heavy duty AA unless you bring the Icarus as well, or find a skyfire nexus.

They do well against flyrants though.

Thankfully thats also one of the nastiest things in the air...

[LeSwordfish]

Knight Gallants are interesting, but outperformed by the Forgeworld Cerastus knights - The Lancer in particular. It gets its shield in close combat, extra damage against Gargantuans and Super-Heavies, and a faster Run move, in exchange for not being able to shield it's rear.

[hamishspence]

So now Dark Reapers are a huge "screw you" to just about anything in the air?

Eldar Missile Launchers, not Reaper Launchers. The Exarch can get one but the ordinary Reapers can't.

[Grim Portent]

Renegades and Heretics
Because the Astra Militarum just can't field enough models

Spoiler: Special Rules

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Uncertain Worth: As your army is composed of a mix of slaves, heretics, conscripts and career soldiers you can't be certain what the morale of any given unit is going to be. Therefore most of your units have this special rule. You have a leadership of 4+d6, rolled the first time you need to make a ld check. Obviously this can be great, as you trump even marines for ld, or terrible when you become more cowardly than grots.

Curse of Mutation: Mutants, Ogrynn Brutes and Renegade Command Squads are the only units that can have this special rule. Before deployment, you roll on a table to see what effect the rule has on each unit.

1/2: The unit gains Fear, and reduces the ld of all friendly non-mutants in 6" by 1. Fear sucks, lowering friendly ld sucks. Pity you can't re-roll these.

3/4: The unit gains Acute Senses and Scout, but treat all Blast, Barrage and Heavy weapons as having Blind. This isn't actually that bad, as most mutant units have low WS/BS anyway, so being blinded isn't much of a drawback for them.

5/6: The unit gains Hammer of Wrath and HoW hits are dealt at +1S. If an enemy unit is within 12" the unit must attempt to charge in the assault phase. This is ok, but not great. Mutant units are mostly just good for assault anyway, so the drawback is minor.

Chaos Covenant: Sort of like marks. Only a small number of units can take these.

Covenant of Khorne: The unit gains Hatred. This is ok in an assault based army, as a lot of units need the extra chances to wound due to low strength.

Covenant of Nurgle: The unit gains Feel No Pain (6+). Making a spam army harder to kill? Sounds good to me.

Covenant of Slaanesh: The unit gains Fleet. Probably the worst of these.

Covenant of Tzeentch: The unit fires Snap Shots at BS2 instead of BS1. So you basically double your overwatch hits. Well worth it if you expect to get assaulted.

Fanatic: When a unit with this rule rolls for it's ld you roll 2d6 and discard the lowest.

Aura of the Witch: 5++ and Fear. Cannot join any other units or be the Warlord.

Spoiler: Warlord Traits

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1: Any units with Uncertain Worth that are destroyed in 12" of the warlord give you a bonus VP on a 5+. Free victory points from your own guys dying? Not bad.

2: At the start of your turn you can kill d3 models in the warlords unit to instantly cause a fleeing unit to regroup. Not terrible, but probably worth re-rolling.

3: At the beginning of any turn you can influence one reserve roll, making it succeed on a 2+, or fail on anything but a 6+. This can be used on enemy reserve rolls. Screwing with your enemy's reinforcements? Could be handy.

4: If the Warlord is in combat, but not in base to base contact they can make a single attack with S3 AP2 Poison 4+ against an enemy model in 3". This one really sucks.

5: Once per turn you can nominate a nearby unit to roll an extra d6 on the building damage table, resolving the roll with the highest die. Re-roll this.

6: The Warlord gains Fear. In addition at initiative step 1 of any fight phase roll a d6 for each enemy model in base contact with the Warlord. On a 6 the model takes an automatic wound.

Spoiler: HQ

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Renegade Command Squad: This is the unit that will define how your whole army functions. It starts out pretty cheap at 5 models, one of which is the Arch-Demagogue, but can be bulked out to 15, take carapace armour, heavy weapons, specialist weapons, and utility gear like vox command nets.

Covenants and Commanders: Command Squads have the Master of Renegades special rule, if an Arch-Demagogue is the army Warlord you may select certain units from this army depending on your choice of covenant.

Unaligned: Your army may include 0-3 Marauder units as Elites choices.

Khorne: Your army may include a single unit of Blood Slaughterer's as an Elites choice.

Nurgle: Your army may include a single unit of Blight Drones as an Elites choice and/or a single unit of Plague Zombies as a Troops choice.

Slaanesh: You may include a single unit of Noise Marines and/or a Sonic Dreadnought as Elites choices.

Tzeentch: You may take 0-3 units of Chaos Spawn as Troops choices. They do not count towards a CADs minimum Troops requirement.

Spoiler: Devotions

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Renegade Demagogue Devotions: One Arch-Demagogue may take one of these. That Arch-Demagogue must be the army Warlord.

Primaris Rogue Witch: The Demagogue becomes a ML1 psyker and gains Fearless. They can buy a second ML, and may take powers from Malefic Daemonology, Biomancy, Pyromancy or Telekinesis. They may not take a Covenant of Khorne.

In addition you can take a Rogue Psyker Coven as an Elites choice in addition to a HQ choice.

Mutant Overlord: The Demagogue and their unit gain Curse of Mutation. In addition the Demagogue rolls on the following table.

1: Reduce I or A by 1.
2/3: +1 WS or BS.
4/5: +1 T or S.
6: +1 W, Slow and Purposeful and Bulky.

Duplicate rolls of 1 or 6 are re-rolled.

You must have at least 2 units of Mutants, in addition you may take a unit of Chaos Spawn. You can also upgrade Ogrynn with the Curse of Mutation.

Master of the Horde: Renegade Infantry Squads may be taken in sizes of up to 30. when a unit of Renegade Infantry is completely destroyed roll a d6. On a 5+ put an identical unit into Ongoing Reserves, without any dedicated transports the original had.

Arch Heretic Revolutionary: Gain Zealot, and your Covenant costs no points. Renegade Infantry and Renegade Veterans may purcahse the Fanatic special rule. Renegade Enforcers may be taken in units of 10 rather than 5.

Heretek Magus: The Demagogue gains +1T, a 3+ armour save and FnP(6+).

You can take Defilers as Heavy Support choices and Decimators as Elites choices.

Renegade Command Squads, Infantry Platoons, Veterans, Disciples, Heavy Ordnance Batteries, Support Squads, Rapier Batteries and Field Artillery Batteries can purchase FnP(6+).

Bloody Handed Reaver: The Demagogue gains free krak grenades and a refractor field and may purchase a hot-shot laspistol or hot-shot lasgun.

Veterans can purchase +1BS and hot-shot lasguns/laspistols. They can also take hot-shot volley guns as special weapons.

All units that can must purchase Militia Training (+1BS). Infantry Platoons, Mutants, Heavy Ordnance Batteries, Support Squads, Laser Destroyers and Field Artillery can all take flak armour.

Rogue Psyker Coven: ML1 psykers. They have Aura of the Witch and 2 wounds. You can only take one unit of 1-5 of them. They deploy and act as separate units. They roll on a unique psychic table with no powers beyond 12" range and turn into possessed if they roll a perils. So they're T3 2W models with a 5++ and 12" range powers. These guys suck.

Renegade Enforcer Cadre: Renegade commissars. Like the psykers you purchase them as a group of 1-5 but deploy them individually. They can take the standard melee/pistol weapon upgrades found in most Imperial armies, as well as carapace armour, combat drugs or melta bombs.

When attached to a unit that unit gains +1ld. If the unit fails a morale or leadership check you must remove one model of your choice and reroll the test.

Spoiler: Elites

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Several of the following units can only be taken if your Arch-Demagogue has a specific covenant.

Marauders: Space pirates ahoy! Marauders are unusual in that they have a specific ld of 7, 8 with a marauder chief. Marauders have a slightly better than average statline and can take two special weapons/power weapons. The unit can include 2 3 wound models with rending and S/T4 to boost their abilities in assault. Marauders have the In it for the Money rule, the unit cannot regroup for any reason.

They have to choose between three specializations.

Stalkers - Outflank, Stealth and Move Through Cover.
Murder Cultists - Furious Charge and Crusader.
Hereteks - 4+ save and krak grenades.

Chaos Spawn: 3 chaos spawn at a discounted price compared to the CSM spawn. Can't take covenants and can only be taken in units of 3. Otherwise identical to CSM spawn.

Disciples: These are basically BS4 Veterans with Fanatic at the cost of special rules options. They're quite costly as infantry go in this book, but they can take covenants and heavy weapons. Not a good unit, they cost more than Veterans for little gain.

Ogryn Brutes: S/T5 with D6 attacks and Fearless. Just one of these guys costs more than a unit of chaos spawn, but for that they can take carapace armour, add chaos hounds to bulk out the unit with cheaper wounds and improve their chance of running down an enemy, as well as giving them 3 reliable attacks per hound.

They can be dedicated to one of the gods.

Nurgle - Feel No Pain 5+. A good choice when paired with carapace armour, it makes the Ogryn near immune to normal guns. Though heavy weapons will still wreck them.
Khorne - You can re-roll their number of attacks. With WS4 and S5 this is largely unneeded, it doesn't help hounds, and hounds are what should form the bulk of any unit.
Slaanesh - Fleet. Since the Ogryn are Very Bulky using transports isn't efficient for them so Fleet is very useful.
Tzeentch - The unit gains an extra attack and all their close combat attacks have Soul Blaze. Compared to Nurgle or Slaanesh this is rather pointless.

Blood Slaughterers Daemonic walkers with WS5 and FA13, come in groups of 1-3. They can have up to 10 attacks on the charge and can purcahse a gun that pulls enemies into close combat. Not a bad choice and not too expensive for what they can do. They have a 5++ from the Daemon special rule.

Blight Drones: Daemonic helicopter bug things. Come in groups of 1-3. Have Shrouded for being Daemons of Nurgle, so they get a very good save when they jink. They have both a S6 heavy flamer and a 36" range battlecannon. A very good unit for clearing out infantry blobs.

Spoiler: Troops

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Renegade Infantry Platoons: For every Troops slot you take a platoon in you have to take 3-5 infantry squads. They start at 10 models for 30 points and can be increased to 20 models. If you have a Master of the Horde Arch-Demagogue they can instead be increased to 30 models. One unit is designated the platoon command squad, it slightly buffs it's champion and gains access to command vox nets.

As a unit these guys are extremely fragile, being T3 with no save, and very weak offensively, with WS/BS2 and lasguns/autoguns/shotguns or ccw+pistols. They can be upgraded to have better WS/BS, armour and special weapons while still remaining incredibly cheap as a unit. They can also take 1 special weapon for every 5 models in the unit. 90 points of guys can take 90 points of plasma guns. This lets you field more melta/flamer/plasma than anyone else.

While not incredible by any means, these should probably feature in any R&Hs army for 100-150 Objective Secured wounds that need to be chewed through by your opponent.

Mutants: Basically the same as an infantry squad, but trading upgrade options for Curse of Mutation and access to Covenants. You can't spam these guys the way you can spam infantry platoon squads, but the mutation table might make them useful once in a while. Best armed with shotguns or ccw+pistols and used as an assault unit/objective grabber. They come in units of 10-50.

Infantry Veterans: Possibly the most versatile unit in the army. Nowhere near as cheap as infantry platoons at 35 points for 5 and 10 for the next 5. They can't take heavy weapons, but they have a decent statline, can take specialist weapons and one of a number of special rules, including Deep Strike, Scout and Tank Hunter, or they can take Carapace Armour instead. For their points cost these guys are really good.

Zombies: If you've got a Nurgle Arch-Demagogue you can take one unit of 10-50 of these. 3 points a model and they've got Fearless, FnP 4+, Slow and Purposeful and Warp Plague. Warp Plague adds D3 models to the unit whenever they win a close combat either by destroying the enemy or making them flee. These guys are fantastic for their price. A block of 50 sitting on an objective is almost impossible to shift.

Spoiler: Dedicated Transports

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Chimera: It's a BS2 version of the Imperial Chimera that costs slightly less, though it can buy BS3 and bump the price to the same as a normal Chimera. It can be taken by several different units as a transport and is actually not bad for it's price. If you're going to be running veterans I'd suggest a few of these to transport Scouts with melta or plasma weaponry a little bit further than normal on the first turn.

Spoiler: Fast Attack

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Hellhound Squadron: A squadron of 1-4 of any combination of Hellhounds, Bane Wolves or Devil Dogs. They have BS2 and are slightly cheaper than Imperial ones. They're Fast vehicles with template/blast weaponry. Hellhounds are good for burning 4+ save enemies from cover, Bane Wolves murder marines at short range and Devil Dogs are supposed to hunt other vehicles, but there are better ways to do that. The Hellhound is probably the best of these, if only because of Torrent. Swap out their Heavy Bolters for Heavy Flamers and rush forward to burn/melt/vaporize your enemy. Ignore the BS3 upgrade, you simply don't need it.

Sentinel Squadron: 60 points for three BS2 AV10 walkers with a Multi-Laser. These are really cheap sources of mobile heavy weapons. Each squadron can have up to 6 sentinels, which can take a bunch of upgrades to make them more killy/durable. If you want to spam autocannons that can plow straight through cover to reach the enemy these guys are pretty handy. For 10 points you can give one a lascannon, which when coupled with the BS3 upgrade can result in a pretty nice salvo of S9 AP2 shots for the price of a space marine devastator squad, or you can take autocannons and blitz light armour. They die to a light breeze though, so Camo Netting and hiding in terrain is probably a good idea.



Salamander Squadron: These are basically Chimera's that have given up their transport capacity to be cheaper and gain Fast. They can take autocannons and hunt light tanks/MCs. They're not impressive by any means, but a squadron of 3 is only 135 points, and they're harder to kill than Sentinels. If you need cheap tanks for a low points game these guys aren't bad, and the amount you can field in larger games is simply absurd.

Arvus Lighter Squadron: AV10 flying transports with no weapons, always fire snap shots and have the Deep Strike rule. They are purchased in squadrons of 1-3, but don't function as a squadron on the tabletop. For 55 points these are useful if you need to transport things cheaply, but even when upgraded with weapons they can't fight well and die to massed bolter fire.

Valkyrie Squadron: Flying transports. They can be upgraded to be more effective at tank/infantry hunting, but they're not really going to excel at either, and they're already pretty expensive as transports go in this army. If you want an elite drop force they're worth considering, but you can't really spam these.

Spoiler: Heavy Support

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Tank Squadron: Cheap squadrons of 1-3 leman russ tanks. They're BS2 unless you want to shell out the points for an upgrade, so you should generally stick with the blast weapon variants. A trio of Battlecannons isn't a bad way to spend your points, but the sponson upgrades are generally useless. Keep them cheap and bury your enemy under large blast templates.

Artillery Battery: Any combination of 1-3 Basilisks or Medusae. These are basically chimeras with long range battlecannons. They're good for heavy infantry hunting and light/medium tank hunting and cost a bit less than leman russ variants do. Hide a few behind walls and bombard your enemy from a distance. Medusae can be upgraded to fire S10 AP1 Armourbane shots, but they have to have line of sight to the target, which defeats the point of artillery. Much like the tank squadron most upgrades are pointless, keep 'em cheap. Hide a battery or three behind the buggest LoS blockers you can find and fling low cost blast templates at the enemy.

Strike Battery: 1-5 Griffons or Wyverns. These are both incredibly cheap anti-infantry artillery. They cost less than a chimera transport and can hail a ridiculous amount of fire at the enemy with surprising accuracy. Use them for chewing through hordes of light infantry that are hugging cover, or use them to finish off infantry whose transport has been destroyed.

Hydra Battery: BS2 skyfire autocannons for 60 points is quite a nice deal. They come in squadrons of 1-3 and are your only reliable way of killing fliers. If you expect to fight enemy airforces take at least one battery and hide it somewhere safe, these things aren't that durable. Alternatively you can just field so much stuff that fliers can't fit anywhere on the board, making hydras redundant.

Bombard Battery: 1-3 Colossus artillery. These guys have S8 AP3 Ignores Cover large blasts. They can annihilate meq with ease but they aren't as cheap as other artillery are. Once again upgrades are usually not worth it.

Heavy Ordnance Battery: Oh look, it's Basilisks/Medusae for half the price. These are just the guns from the Artillery Battery but with crew manning them rather than mounted of vehicles. You get 1-3 per battery. They can't move, but you can stick them in cover and field the cheapest source of S8 AP3 large blasts in veritable swarms. Every CAD gets you 9 of these for 55 points per artillery piece. Unless you need a more durable source of firepower you can't go wrong with mass Ordnance Batteries.

Support Squads: 3 heavy weapon teams for 25 points. You can add another 3 weapon teams for 10 points a team. They can take a number of heavy weapons, though the best are the autocannon and the missile launcher. +1BS is definitely a good upgrade for this unit, and they can take covenants, of which the best for them are Tzeentch and Nurgle. This unit allows you to field massive amounts of heavy weapons, but considering how cheap artillery is in this army you're probably better off just paying the 30 extra points for an ordnance battery.

Rapier Laser Destroyer Battery: 20 points for a 36" range S9 AP1 Ordnance weapon. This is more or less the cheapest anti-tank in the army. For 90 points you get 3 of them with BS3. While they lack the range needed to keep the crew from getting popped like zits they can be used in low point games to wipe out enemy vehicles. In higher points values they lack they get killed way too easily unless you field multiple units and put them in good cover.

Field Artillery Battery: What the Heavy Ordnance Battery is to the Basilisk, the Field Artillery Battery is to the Griffon. At 30 points each these are very affordable anti-infantry artillery. They have the same advantages over the vehicle based artillery as the HOB does, but with the advantage of coming in even larger groups, being able to field 4 artillery pieces in one battery.

Spoiler: Covenant Based build advice

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As each Devotion enables for different upgrades and mandatory units in your army, I will give some advice on them each here. In general this is an army that has very good affordable infantry and upgrades that primarily benefits infantry, so this will focus on them.

Rogue Witch: This probably the weakest Devotion, Rogue Psykers are not possessed of very good powers and can't join units. As such any army with this Devotion should avoid them and focus on it's Arch-Demagogue. They have access to Daemonology and Biomancy, allowing for daemon summoning and buffing. Pyromancy and Telekinesis are too useless to bother with. If going with Daemonology you should make the Demagogue and his unit tough to kill so they can rush forward to summon daemons in useful places without getting shot to death before they can. If going with Biomancy the Demagogue and his unit should be built for assault, taking carapace armour, flamers and power weapons/fists and the covenant of Slaanesh or Nurgle. The army itself won't really benefit from this Demagogue at all, so it should be built like any normal army.

Mutant Overlord: In order to maintain healthy leadership values among your basic Troops you should probably field mostly mutants in your troops slots, and take the covenant of Tzeentch to field 4 units of chaos spawn. Your Demagogue is likely to mutate into a close combat beast and should be equipped appropriately. Rushing an army of mutants and chaos spawn forward to shield your with your demagogue equipped to provide leadership bonuses is probably the best idea. Back them up with some cheap artillery to provide long range firepower. You may want to field Ogryn as part of this army, but if you do keep the actual Ogryn few in number and focus on Chaos Hounds. Other elites choices, especially Marauders may suffer from the -1 ld some mutants will give out, so Ogryn aren't as bad as they'd normally be.

Master of the Horde: As the only unit that benefits from this devotion is infantry platoons you should mostly field them. Cheap units of infantry can swarm over the board snap firing heavy weapons and rolling enough dice in the shooting phase to knock fliers out of the air, wreck vehicles and generally make a mess of your opponents' army. Each Troops slot can field 15 autocannons, at BS2 you don't suffer much of a penalty for snap firing so you may as well keep moving and swarm over objectives. Shotguns maximise the damage your infantry can deal with their guns and flamers can compensate for their poor BS. Since a lot of points will be spent on the massive horde you can field you should keep the rest of your force cheap and avoid vehicles in order to render any points your opponent spent on anti-tank useless. You have no use for transports and should have little room to move them, so focus on long range units like the immobile artillery batteries. The BS3 upgrade for your platoons is actually more efficient for an army like this, since the price is per unit, the increased unit size benefits more, so upgrade your platoons if you can. Your Demagogue should probably be equipped much like the platoon squads, with a focus on heavy weapons and ld boosters to help your random leadership from being a problem. Use enforcers to give some infantry units Rage and swarm the enemy with pistols+ccw.

Arch-Heretic: This devotion is focused on having good ld for your Troops units, but it pays a lot for it. Veterans are probably the best choice of units for it, as they are much harder to kill than a platoon squad is. Veterans with Fanatic and an Enforcer are a pretty good unit, with moral roughly equivalent to that of a space marine and decent WS. Between the Enforcer and the unit champion they can be turned into a decent assault unit. Alternatively use platoons with enforcers and combat drugs to rush the enemy while fanatic veterans secure objectives. The rest of the army can be built as you see fit.

The Demagogue is more or less unnecessary for the Fanatics, as they already have good leadership, so use them to buff units that cannot be upgraded with Fanatic, or hide the command squad somewhere to avoid giving up Slay the Warlord.

Heretek Magus: Much like the mutant Demagogue this is a decent character for close combat (for a human anyway), build appropriately. Add Feel No Pain 6+ to every unit you can give it to, it's better than a 6+ armour save for just a little more points and acts as a nice addition to carapace armour's 4+ save, the benefits only increase as a unit goes up in size. You should mostly use artillery batteries for your Heavy Support choices, as Defilers (See the chaos marine guide) aren't generally worth using and vehicles can't be given FnP 6+. Decimators aren't a terrible use of Elites slots, if only because of how poor that slot normally is in this army, but Disciples can be given FnP, so are probably better in this instance. Marauders can fit the theme of the army by taking the Hereteks upgrade, but can't do much that your army can't already do except assault things more competently.

Bloody Handed Reaver: This devotion essentially turns your army into Astra Militarum/Militarum Tempestus. Your Demagogue isn't anything special, all he gets is a hot shot laspistol, and he has to pay for that. Keep him somewhere out of the way and let your veterans do the work. Your Veterans should all be upgraded to Grenadiers and taken in maximum unit sizes. With carapace armour you pretty much field Stormtroopers without the Deep Strike rule, but you can take that instead of carapace armour or ride in a Valkyrie. Since your army is going to be much smaller than normal for R&Hs you should probably use enforcers to keep units from breaking. Avoid most infantry units, they have to take flak armour and BS3, this costs points and in the case of flak armour does nothing useful. A 5+ save is no better than a 6+ when both are ignored by bolters. This means that you should focus on vehicles when taking choices from FA and HS. Tanks are good, but you don't need help to kill meq, you already have AP3 lasguns, so favour things like Hellhounds and Wyverns for killing mass infantry. Normally you'd kill them through sheer numbers, but this devotion makes that impractical.

[Cheesegear]

Building on a Budget: Dark Angels

They come in Dark Vengeance. If you've never played the game before, or you don't have a lot money, the Dark Vengeance kit comes with the big rulebook, and Templates. How are you not saving money right there!? A lot of people are going to tell you that Dark Angels are terrible, and that's fine. But, fact is, if you're on a budget, there really isn't any way that you're going to be able to build a legitimately good army, regardless of which book you use. So, all those people who are going to tell you that you shouldn't play Dark Angels, well, they're wrong. Buying within your budget is one of the smartest things you can do. That's just life advice right there.

Let's recap our rules for BoaB.
Rule #1; The goal is to get to 1850 as cheaply as possible, while
Rule #2; Not being bad.

Rule #2 says that deliberately taking units because they are expensive points-wise is not allowed. Because that's being bad.

Spoiler: List Building Process

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Let's talk Dark Vengeance.

Company Master; Combi-Plasma, Power Sword - 115 Points
Librarian; Force Sword, ML2 - 100 Points
Tactical Squad (x10); Plasma Gun, Plasma Cannon, Plasma Pistol - 185 Points
Deathwing Terminators (x5); Chainfist, Assault Cannon - 245 Points
Ravenwing Bikers (x3); Plasma Gun - 95 Points

Overall, 0.22. And gives you a Rulebook and Templates. If we assume that the Company Master is dead weight - because he is - then Dark Vengeance drops to 0.26. Which is still very, very good. You can even recoup some of the price on the Chaos models; Chaos players are always looking for more Cultists on the cheap, and the Chosen with the Power Axe is worth money, and you can probably get something for Vrosh Tattersoul as well - again, because of the Axe. But the rest, depends on the market. But it really doesn't matter, because, regardless of whether or not you can sell off your Chaos models, the Dark Vengeance box still sits at 0.27 for the Dark Angels, with Rulebook and Templates, and that's not nothing.

The Dark Angels expansion to Dark Vengeance is as follows;

Nephilim Jetfighter - 180 Points
Ravenwing Black Knights (x3); Ravenwing Grenade Launcher - 126 Points

Here's where it gets tricky. The Dark Angels Terminator box can be built in several ways...

Deathwing Command Squad (x5) - 295 Points
Deathwing Champion, Deathwing Apothecary, Cyclone Missile Launcher
x3 Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields

Deathwing Terminators (x5) - 255 Points
Cyclone Missile Launcher, x4 Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields

Deathwing Knights (x5); Perfidious Relic of the Unforgiven - 245 Points

Any of those options would be fine. Especially as you also another unit of Terminators already from the original box, to take the heat off. Yep, you guessed it. If we just even the Terminators out to a clean 250, gives the expansion box 0.31. Noting that the Command Squad option is even better for saving money. But, at this point, we're getting ahead of ourselves, since we haven't even picked our Warlord yet. Yep. You guessed it...

(0.15) (W) Azrael - 215 Points

You might even be able to use your Company Master with Combi-Plasma and Power Sword as your Azrael model. Maybe. Don't come crying to the internet if you're not allowed. Azrael is a reasonably powerful model, and, generally, people's willingness for you to use Count As models is directly proportional to the amount of effort you put into your model. Pulling your standard Dark Vengeance model out of the box and calling it 'Azrael'...Is not effort, even if he does have the same wargear.

Wait. Hold on. If you've been reading other BoaB Guides, or just know me well, you'll know that when I lock in my choices, I make them blue. As you can see, Azrael has not been made blue. That is, simply because, well, Azrael isn't that good, at least, not inside his own Codex. He is, however, very strong in the Codex AM book, but we're not Codex AM, we're Dark Angels, and, unfortunately, we don't need him. His Leadership buff isn't great because we're Marines, and we have And They Shall Know No Fear, we auto-Regroup, and can't be Swept. Failing Morale checks just isn't that big of a deal to Space Marines. He's not Eternal Warrior, and he doesn't have an AP2 weapon. So why are you paying over 200 Points for somebody who is just bad? That's breaking Rule #2, and it's not okay. So, who costs the next-most points that wont cripple our wallet?

(0.21) (W) Belial - 190 Points

He's blue. So he's sticking around. Unfortunately, no, you can't lazy your way into a Count As model with this one. Belial is, well, he's not super strong. But any Dark Angels Terminator unit that he Deep Strikes with, doesn't Scatter, and, all Dark Angels Terminators automatically show up on Turn 1 or 2 (your choice). Terminators showing up, Turn 1, no Scatter, is reasonably strong. It's just a shame you aren't Chaos Terminators with Combi-Meltas. So, what you have, is 5 Dark Vengeance Terminators, fixed with an Assault Cannon, and then you have five more Terminators that you can build how you choose;
Do you want one, massive unit of 10 Terminators, plus Belial, or do you want two smaller units of 5? 11 Terminators showing up in your opponent's face is nice for shock value. But if they can deal with it (i.e; a Vindicator, or mass Plasma), then they can deal with. Two units of five is less about putting all of your eggs into a single basket. Belial's unit wont Scatter, but the other unit, will. But the other unit has a Cyclone Missile Launcher which really isn't required to be in your opponent's DZ anyway. Still though, all of your Terminators can show up on Turn 1.
Do you want a Deathwing Command Squad? Well, actually yes. The DCS gives Belial FNP, there's an at-Initative AP2 weapon on the Champion, and you can still take a Cyclone Missile Launcher. Or, maybe you want the Deathwing Knights, 'cause they really do look pretty cool. Unfortunately, no. You don't. Unless you're playing against Chaos Marines, DWKs are pretty weak, unless you're playing against Chaos Marines, anything that DWKs can do could be done by a regular Deathwing Squad with Hammers and Storm Shields. Last, but not least, Belial makes Terminators Troops, which gives you a massive advantage for cost-saving. So, what've we got?

(W) Belial - 190 Points
Librarian; Force Sword, ML2 - 100 Points

Tactical Squad (x10); Plasma Gun, Plasma Cannon, Plasma Pistol - 185 Points
Deathwing Terminators (x5); Chainfist, Assault Cannon - 245 Points

Ravenwing Bikers (x3); Plasma Gun - 95 Points
Ravenwing Black Knights (x3); Ravenwing Grenade Launcher - 126 Points
Nephilim Jetfighter - 180 Points

Ravenwing Bikes, Scout. They've also got Teleport Homers. All of them. That means, all of your Terminators that Deep Strike onto the board aren't going to Scatter, either. The only difference is, Belial gets to pretty much land in your opponent's DZ. Basically, Belial needs protection.

Deathwing Command Squad - 295 Points
Deathwing Champion, Deathwing Apothecary, Cyclone Missile Launcher
x3 Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields

Yes. Having a Cyclone Missile Launcher and Storm Shield is legal. However, you may have to convince your opponents that a Power Maul and Thunder Hammer are the same thing. Due to the fact that Deathwing Knights just look cool, you should be allowed to. I'll say with 95% confidence that your opponents will let you. But, maybe not. Just don't glue the arms on until you're sure that your opponent aren't ****heads.

Well, that's the core of our army, and we're only on 1416 Points, giving us ~450 Points to play with. Now, if your great, money-saving idea is to just have two more units of Deathwing Terminators with a single Chainfist each at 225 Points per unit makes 450 exactly, and we can just drop some wargear somewhere else...Wrong. Rule #2 says don't be bad. However,

Tactical Squad (x10); Missile Launcher, Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma - 180 Points
Deathwing Terminators (x5); Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields - 245 Points

Isn't an entirely bad idea. For those Terminators, you probably do want to buy the normal Space Marine kit, rather than the Dark Angels one. Then, what you can do, is place one Deathwing Knight from your earlier box into the unit, call him the Sergeant, and put a 'normal' Terminator into the Command Squad so it does actually look like there's a Thunder Hammer there, giving your opponents the illusion that you're actually trying.

Spoiler: Dark Angels, CAD

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(0.21) (W) Belial - 190 Points
(*) Librarian; Force Sword, ML2 - 100 Points

(**) Deathwing Command Squad - 295 Points
Deathwing Champion, Deathwing Apothecary, Cyclone Missile Launcher
x3 Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields

(*) Tactical Squad (x10); Plasma Gun, Plasma Cannon, Plasma Pistol - 185 Points
(0.36) Tactical Squad (x10); Missile Launcher, Plasma Gun, Combi-Plasma - 180 Points
(*) Deathwing Terminators (x5); Chainfist, Assault Cannon - 245 Points
(0.30) Deathwing Terminators (x5); Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields - 245 Points

(*) Ravenwing Bikers (x3); Plasma Gun - 95 Points
(**) Ravenwing Black Knights (x3); Ravenwing Grenade Launcher - 126 Points
(**) Nephilim Jetfighter - 180 Points

Total: 1841 Points.
* Dark Vengeance, 0.27
** Dark Vengeance Expansion, 0.28

Add 9 Points worth of wargear. Oh, and if you're up for it, cut off the Plasma Pistol on the Sergeant with a knife, throw on a Bolt Pistol you got from the Tactical Squad kit you bought, and then you have 24 Points to spend... I wouldn't know what you'd do with the 24 Points though. Maybe some Auspexes? So when you fire your AP2 Plasma at people, they have worse Cover Saves? Melta Bombs are also a good buy. Plasma Pistols are the worst - especially on 1-Wound models - but, the model comes hard-wired with it.

$513 AUD. 0.28. Not bad at all. Especially if you can sell off a handful of the Chaos models (remembering that not all of the Chaos models are worth money). The list itself, however...Well, I don't like lying. But, it's not the worst list around. The mistake, would be thinking that Rule #1 is more important than Rule #2, and then taking nothing but Terminators. It was something a lot of people did in 5th Ed., and it was really bad. Dark Angel players do it all the time, and it's bad. Rule #1 is important, sure. But Rule #2 is just as important, and spending any amount of money, time and effort on an army that is simply unplayable, is the worst.

[Cheesegear]

So, people are a little bit excited over a Land Raider with a Grav-Cannon on it. Uhh...Hate to break it to you, guys. But Eldar have Gargantuans at 300 apiece, and Imperial Knights got redone with even more Super-Heavies with Invulnerables. My pride-and-joy, a Land Raider Achilles, can't do much of anything in the current meta, and it's immune to Melta. No idea why people think a Land Raider Excelsior can do better. 'Cause it has a Grav-Cannon on the front? Please.

Although, I'm really hoping the Rhino is actually something special, because it looks sweet.

[Requizen]

So, people are a little bit excited over a Land Raider with a Grav-Cannon on it. Uhh...Hate to break it to you, guys. But Eldar have Gargantuans at 300 apiece, and Imperial Knights got redone with even more Super-Heavies with Invulnerables. My pride-and-joy, a Land Raider Achilles, can't do much of anything in the current meta, and it's immune to Melta. No idea why people think a Land Raider Excelsior can do better. 'Cause it has a Grav-Cannon on the front? Please.

Although, I'm really hoping the Rhino is actually something special, because it looks sweet.

The sane person is excited for the Cult Mechanicus - Kataphron Destroyers. Who have a 30" Salvo 4/6 Grav Gun and a special rule that lets them move and fire as if they remained stationary. A min unit of 3 is only 165 points. Albeit at BS4, but supposedly there's a formation with them and the Robots that gives them both +1BS and Ignores Cover. So yeah. BS4 Grav Guns shooting a Wraithknight at 30" with 18 ignoring cover shots. They don't look so tough now.

It's taking a lot of my willpower to not preorder CM like a madman. I just want to wait and see what the Electro-Priests and the HQ are like before I go on a spending spree.

[bluntpencil]

So, people are a little bit excited over a Land Raider with a Grav-Cannon on it. Uhh...Hate to break it to you, guys. But Eldar have Gargantuans at 300 apiece, and Imperial Knights got redone with even more Super-Heavies with Invulnerables. My pride-and-joy, a Land Raider Achilles, can't do much of anything in the current meta, and it's immune to Melta. No idea why people think a Land Raider Excelsior can do better. 'Cause it has a Grav-Cannon on the front? Please.

Although, I'm really hoping the Rhino is actually something special, because it looks sweet.

Do note that the Land Raider also has some sort of command dish, too. The smaller satellite dish from the Rhino is there.

Reserve manipulation? Leadership buffs? Re-rolls?

Also, Concussive Weapons on Assault Vehicles? Yes.

[*.*.*.*]

For all you 30k peeps, is there a way to nab 2 rite of wars with Iron Hands? I'd really like to do pride of the legion+head of the gorgon.

[Cheesegear]

For all you 30k peeps, is there a way to nab 2 rite of wars with Iron Hands? I'd really like to do pride of the legion+head of the gorgon.

Master of the Legion
"Only one Rites of War formation may be used in any army, regardless of whether multiple characters with this rule are included, and the Rites of War chosen only affects the force's Primary Detachment."

It's pretty clear that you can't.

[Grim Portent]

On the 7th I'm going to be taking part in a Planetstrike game, but I've never played Planetstrike before so I don't really know what I should be looking at doing with my army. Anyone got any advice?

[*.*.*.*]

It's pretty clear that you can't.

Erasmus Golg lets Iron Warriors get termies as troops, I was hoping there was some obscure IH character or something that would do the same. C'est la vie

On the 7th I'm going to be taking part in a Planetstrike game, but I've never played Planetstrike before so I don't really know what I should be looking at doing with my army. Anyone got any advice?

Cheese played quite a bit of planetstrike in his Sanctus Reach battle reports.