Warhammer & 40K RPGs Thread III: With Friends Like These, Who Needs Heresies?

[LeSwordfish]

That, plus some things cause fear through non-mundane means and so will have an effect as soon as it applies, even if you can't see it or it's not in a position to hurt you.

[Destro_Yersul]

I've typically gone with 'when you see it,' unless it's really far away.

[Telok]

My personal (and possibly not very helpful) rule of thumb was when they need to decide between shooting and running away. Which, for some things, could be as soon as it's seen or heard.

[comicshorse]

I've always gone with 'when it's obvious it's coming for you'

[Lord Torath]

Deathwatch: Can only pistols be arm/shoulder mounted? The core rulebook (p156) says "Upgrades: Las, Solid Projectile, Bolt, or Melta Pistol, or Auxiliary Grenade Launcher".

Grey Knights, of course, can mount stormbolters on their wrists with no range penalty (Dark Heresy Daemon Hunter p133). Are they the only ones who can mount anything larger than a pistol (or under-barrel accessory)?

[Cheesegear]

Deathwatch: Can only pistols be arm/shoulder mounted?

I've ruled that any Basic weapon can be mounted using Signature Wargear Talents. If you're going to allow something that's against the rules, it should be fairly unique to the character. Otherwise why don't all Deathwatch Marines have wrist-mounted Storm Bolters?

ION;
I literally forgot that this was a thread.

[Lord Torath]

Does it say anywhere that an Astartes Servo-Arm is incompatible with a jumppack?

Further Questions about Oblivion's Edge Adventure. Generally, the GM gives the Mission Briefing, the players select a Leader and choose their Oath, then spend their requisition. When the mission is complete, the PCs get their XP and Renown awards. At which point do you perform these various actions in Oblivion's Edge?

Spoiler: Further details Spoilered for Your Convenience

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The previous adventure ends with the players trapped on a planet facing imminent tyranid invasion (although explicitly allowed to spend their XP to level up and increase their Renown). The players are the only representatives of Deathwatch on the planet, so there's no space marine armory they can visit to resupply. The initial part of this adventure involves a mad dash across town to the Spaceport followed by a desperate Hold Out for Evac (A veteran objective if ever I've seen one).

The team finds themselves on an Imperial Cruiser, but not a Space Marine one. They run a series of minor missions against the swarm (counting as a single mission as far as Primary, Secondary, and Tertiary Objectives are concerned), followed by a major mission to take out the main Hive Ship (with its own primary, secondary, and tertiary objectives) No other space marines show up until after the Team takes out the hive ship, when a Deathwatch Battlebarge shows up.

So at what points do you allow requisition and resupply? Do Imperial Cruisers typically carry stockpiles of Astartes weapons, armor, and ammunition on the off-chance they'll play host to some Space Marines (since Astartes gear generally refuses to work for non-space marines, making it otherwise useless to the crew)? Do you allow them to restock their ammo, but not get anything new? Force them to make do with their current supplies?

[lightningcat]

Unless they are running specialty ammo, they should be able to resupply their ammo stock anywhere they have access to an Imperial armory. While bolters are rare outside the Space Marines, they are availible to officers, so ammo would be available. In fact ammo is the one area that the Imperium is a big fan of standardization. Almost everything else would require at least waiting for the reinforcement ship, maybe even getting back to a Watch Fortress.

[Lord Torath]

There is the fact that Astartes bolters inflict an extra d10 damage compared to their non-astartes companions, and thus presumably use different ammo. In fact, most if not all Astartes weapons inflict more damage than the standard Imperial models.

[Cheesegear]

Does it say anywhere that an Astartes Servo-Arm is incompatible with a jumppack?

Technically no. I've run into the same problem before, and my solution as always, is to force Signature Wargear. If a Jump Pack and Servo-Arm was a normal thing, then everybody would be doing it. Since everyone doesn't do it, you can assume that it's not normal. Deathwatch, being at the forefront of technology, as well as being a bunch of Unique Dudes, if you want to fiat your way into allowing Jump Pack and Servo-Arm, go for it (because technically, it actually isn't against the rules). But you should impose some kind of penalty.

Further Questions about Oblivion's Edge Adventure. Generally, the GM gives the Mission Briefing, the players select a Leader and choose their Oath, then spend their requisition. When the mission is complete, the PCs get their XP and Renown awards. At which point do you perform these various actions in Oblivion's Edge?

I think the hardest part about Oblivion's Edge is...You don't.
You pick up 4 days after Final Sanction, and you never enter a place where Astartes Gear would be available to resupply.

IMO...Letting your players restock ammo once they get to the ship, is the difference between Easy mode and Hard mode.
Some characters get pretty difficult to play without ammo.
But you definitely shouldn't give them new gear.

[Lord Torath]

I think the hardest part about Oblivion's Edge is...You don't.
You pick up 4 days after Final Sanction, and you never enter a place where Astartes Gear would be available to resupply.

IMO...Letting your players restock ammo once they get to the ship, is the difference between Easy mode and Hard mode.
Some characters get pretty difficult to play without ammo.
But you definitely shouldn't give them new gear.

Final Sanction lets you top off your ammo at one of the secondary locations, so I think it makes sense to allow the team to replenish their ammo at the appropriate location. But yeah, no new gear or special ammo until Deathwatch shows up.

[Lord Torath]

New Question: How are vehicle crews affected by fear? Are they affected at all?

Other Question: Mark of the Xenos (p37) gives Lictors both the Size (Hulking) and Size (Enormous) traits. Anyone know which one is correct?

[Incorrect]

New Question: How are vehicle crews affected by fear? Are they affected at all?

I say they get a bonus based on how much safety the vehicle gives them, but I think its too complex to make a standard rule.


Question:
Does anyone have a link for some good print-and-fold "miniatures" for warhammer 40k? Like the ones made by GiantITP?

[Lord Torath]

Does anyone have a link for some good print-and-fold "miniatures" for warhammer 40k? Like the ones made by GiantITP?

Considering that selling miniatures is what Games Workshop does, I'm inclined to suspect anyone distributing them would quickly receive a "Cease-and-Desist" letter, so it's unlikely.

If you have Rich's A Monster for Every Season, I'd recommend using his "create your own" sheets combined with screen grabs of 40k figs to create your own for your personal use. You can combine them using Inkscape or Photoshop or something similar.

[The Glyphstone]

Less a rules question and more of preference, but does anyone here actually enjoy playing Navigators in Rogue Trader? And if the answer is yes, what about the career/role is fun to you?

[Incorrect]

If you have Rich's A Monster for Every Season, I'd recommend using his "create your own" sheets combined with screen grabs of 40k figs to create your own for your personal use. You can combine them using Inkscape or Photoshop or something similar.

You are right. That is probably what I will end up doing

Less a rules question and more of preference, but does anyone here actually enjoy playing Navigators in Rogue Trader? And if the answer is yes, what about the career/role is fun to you?

I did for a one shot, and I had a lot of fun. The whole warp travel pilot is a background thing in my mind. I enjoyed playing as a "blaster sorcerer", and used offensive powers like lidless stare. I like the role of a powerful character that is a risk to everyone around him, and the roleplaying that brings.

[Delta]

Ulisses NA lost the 40k license last week, but Wrath & Glory is still alive and will be done by Cubicle 7 from now on, the PDFs have already been switched to Cubicle on DriveThru.

That's a really weird thing to see a license taken away only months after a new game is released and for the new company to pick up the whole game line, looks like Ulisses just didn't have the capacities or competence to do W&G in the way GW wanted it done (or maybe GW just pressured to have all RPG gamelines under one roof, since Cubicle is already doing the WHF stuff too?)

[BioCharge]

Hey guys, I have a question. I've been wracking my brain and cross-referencing things like crazy, but I cannot reach a conclusion, so maybe you guys can help. I am almost certain as to what the answer is, but I want a second opinion.

Next session, I want to throw a Carnifex from Mark of thr Xenos at my party, but I'm tripping up on its attack routine. See, it has the Multiple Arms trait, Swift Attack, and Two-Weapon Wielder (Melee) Talents.

Now, I understand the interaction between Multiple Arms and Swift Attack: It would get 3 attacks at its normal bonuses. Now, since it has Two-Weapon wielder, would it be able to make 6 (!!!) melee attacks, all at a -10 (because it is also Amberdexterous)? This seems logical to me.

Though now I have another thought: what about ones that are Amberdexterous, but don't have Two-Weapon Wielder, like Gene Stealers? What does that talent do for them?

Maybe I'm just overthinking things, but I'd appreciate you guy's opinions.

Thanks!

[Destro_Yersul]

What system are you playing? It matters. I'll assume Deathwatch, since that's what Mark of the Xenos is for.

Two-weapon Wielder says that with a full action, you get to attack with both weapons. Swift attack says you get two attacks as a full action, and combines with TWW for a total of three attacks, since you only get SA with one of the two weapons. Multiple Arms combines with SA to increase the number of attacks the Carnifex gets by +1.

Thus, it gets four attacks. Two from SA, +1 from TWW, +1 from Multiple Arms. All four take -10. If it wanted, it could forgo the +1 from TWW and make three attacks with no penalty.

Ambidextrous doesn't do much without TWW. I suppose it means that, if the Genestealer were to lose an arm, it would not take penalties for its off-hand.

[BioCharge]

What system are you playing? It matters. I'll assume Deathwatch, since that's what Mark of the Xenos is for.

Two-weapon Wielder says that with a full action, you get to attack with both weapons. Swift attack says you get two attacks as a full action, and combines with TWW for a total of three attacks, since you only get SA with one of the two weapons. Multiple Arms combines with SA to increase the number of attacks the Carnifex gets by +1.

Thus, it gets four attacks. Two from SA, +1 from TWW, +1 from Multiple Arms. All four take -10. If it wanted, it could forgo the +1 from TWW and make three attacks with no penalty.

Ambidextrous doesn't do much without TWW. I suppose it means that, if the Genestealer were to lose an arm, it would not take penalties for its off-hand.

Hmm, okay. That sounds right. Now, let's change slightly and assume I use the rules from Open War (I do use some of the update rules there). Assuming the Carnifex has 4 arms, and we use it's rules for Two-Weapon Wielding where you can swift attack with both hands, would it still stay at 4 attacks, since the rules for Multiple Arms in OW don't say you get extra attacks like it does in Deathwatch?

Maybe my misunderstanding was simply because of the bastardization of the rules that I use. To be fair, it makes the choice between single, semi and full auto more meaningful, at least.

Thanks again for the help!

[Destro_Yersul]

OW is indeed a bit less clear cut, thanks to changes to all of the talents involved. Swift Attack is now an action type, instead of a flat two attacks, and TWW works differently. Multiple arms gets a number in Parenthesis to show how many arms the thing has. So a 'Fex with four arms would have Multiple Arms (4), and gets two extra attacks from that (4/2=2).

Now it gets more complicated. TWW allows the wielder to take Secondary attacks, which can be Swift Attacks. Swift Attacks generate extra hits for degrees of success, up to the wielder's WS Bonus. Our friend the 'Fex has WS 35, so he can get up to 3 hits per SA.

Meaning, put together, that you still get four attacks, at -10: Two from TWW and Two from Multiple Arms, but ALL of them can be SA's, and if he rolls really, really well (and has some bonuses) he could generate up to 12 total hits.

[The Glyphstone]

One thing I sort of liked about the Carnifex design was how they gave it an astonishingly low Weapon Skill stat - only a 35, relative to the 50's and 60+'s of most other melee-oriented Tyranids forms - because in-setting, it's meant for targets that it doesn't need good accuracy to hit. Tanks and fortifications have extremely high Size modifiers and either don't move at all or move slowly, giving even more positive modifiers.

[BioCharge]

Snip

Huh, I hadn't seen that change in Open War. That's an interesting change. We were running on Deathwatch's rules for the talent. I'll run by my players if they want to use the updated rule if they want. Man, these updates rules can make the Tyranids even bigger deathmachines than they already were.

Thanks fir the help guys! It is much appreciated.

[Lord Torath]

One thing I sort of liked about the Carnifex design was how they gave it an astonishingly low Weapon Skill stat - only a 35, relative to the 50's and 60+'s of most other melee-oriented Tyranids forms - because in-setting, it's meant for targets that it doesn't need good accuracy to hit. Tanks and fortifications have extremely high Size modifiers and either don't move at all or move slowly, giving even more positive modifiers.

Do you get size modifiers in melee combat? In Deathwatch, at least, the size modifiers are applied only to ranged attacks (unless I'm misreading something).

[The Glyphstone]

Do you get size modifiers in melee combat? In Deathwatch, at least, the size modifiers are applied only to ranged attacks (unless I'm misreading something).

Deathwatch contradicts itself, unsurprisingly. Under the Size trait, it says "Size affects movement and how easy or hard it is to strike that creature in combat." Later down in the Combat section, it says "Size is an important factor when shooting ranged weapons because it is usually easier to hit a larger target." This language has stayed consistent through both the V1 and V2 games.

So I suppose by strict RAW, you could only get Size modifiers to ranged attacks. But that's so incredibly dumb I have never seen a single group play that line; something bigger is easier to hit, full stop.

[Lord Torath]

I'd go with the thought that a bigger creature has longer reach, and the ease of striking their increased size is countered by the difficulty of overcoming that reach. Unless, of course, you're up against something without useful melee ability, like the back of an exocrine, or if you're standing on the back of a biotitan where its limbs can't reach.

The Deathwatch GM Screen lists the bonus only for ranged attacks.

[Destro_Yersul]

Not sure when it changed, but by the time of DH2 Size became a flat modifier to hit, didn't matter on range or melee anymore. Deathwatch was still pretty early on in terms of product releases, and a lot of it fails to benefit from positive changes that came later.

[Kyrell1978]

So.....I'm just now getting into the 40K version of this game (played some fantasy Warhammer table top in the late 80s). Dark Heresy peaks my interest more than a little. I'm pretty familiar with multiple role playing systems, but my group is mostly d20 type games. So the question is......should I go with 1e for the more rigid career paths to bring a level of familiarity to the group (ie classes) or go with the more fluid 2e? Which do you all prefer and whatnot?

[The Glyphstone]

I think 2e is vastly better. DE1 was their first game and it has growing pains in a lot of places - not just the careers, but the clunky psionics subsystem, the penny pinching coin counting, and other stuff. 2e isnt flawless, but its leaps and bounds above 1e for playability.

[Destro_Yersul]

I, on the other hand, like the careers and the coin-counting. The psychic stuff isn't the greatest, but I vastly prefer DH1 and the other career systems to DH2.