Age of Sigmar: Points and Handbooks

[Destro_Yersul]

If all your models are [clan], then you have [clan] allegiance. If any of your models don't have the same [clan], then you're Skaventide. The only exception to this is if every unit is [clan], except the general, who must be masterclan, then you can keep your [clan] allegiance. So, no clanrats or SV in any of the skryre, moulder, eshin or pestilens armies, an no heros who aren't grey seers or verminlords. Honestly, the only one this really affects majorly is Eshin since they're a bit limited in what they can take while the other 3 have all the major things to make a list function.

That said, clanrats are amazing at 40 for 200 points, so any complaining that any non-Eshin player wants to do is going to fall on deaf ears. I will be rather surprised if we don't see the Warpseer go up a notable amount of points soon though, because he's in every list ever as not only is he nigh unkillable, but he gets 2 casts, a selection of good spells, extra CP and a rediculous battleshock immunity radius. I fully expect him to go up at least 50 points, if not more.

I don't understand allegiances very well, then. What's the point of taking a specific one, outside of allowing a few extra units to be Battleline? The way the Allegiance traits are written you just get them all if you're Skaventide, unless I'm reading that wrong. Otherwise how would you ever get the Masterclan one?

It's spam at it's finest, but you can pretty much delete any big target that comes with in range of your WLC's (average of 28 mortal wounds) and you've got enough battleshock immune bodies that you can screen those cannons for days. The one thing that could possibly take this to extremes is if you can use the engineer sparks on the cannons to give them +1 damage per hit, 'cause oh man, brokentown population +1 if that's a thing.

List would be better dropping 1 engineer and 1 WLC for a Verminlord Warpseer and then trading the bell for warp lightning vortex since you no longer need the morale immunity from the bell, but then you're not taking 4 WLC's, and if you're not doing it for the memes, then what is even the point?

It also occurs to me that, if you really wanted to, you could run a list that's just 280 clanrats, two clawlords and the screaming bell. I don't know if that would actually be good, and there's no way I'm buying that many clanrats, but it's amusing nonetheless.

[PraetorDragoon]

I know someone who had so many clanrats that he toyed with the list of 1 warlord, rest clanrats. I think the main hitch was that you could run out of deployment space.

Having trawled through the FEC book, I worked on some lists. Which one do you think is the better one? Not entirely sure on which relics and traits to pick.

Spoiler: FEC list 1

Show

Allegiance: Flesh Eater Courts
- Grand Court: Court of Delusion - The Feast Day
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist (400)
- General
Abhorrant Archregent (200)
Varghulf Courtier (160)
10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)
10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)
Chalice of Ushoran (40)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 49

Spoiler: FEC list 2

Show

Allegiance: Flesh Eater Courts
- Grand Court: Court of Delusion - The Feast Day
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist (400)
- General
Abhorrant Archregent (200)
Crypt Ghast Courtier (60)
Abhorrant Ghoul King (140)
10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)
10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 53

[Requizen]

I know someone who had so many clanrats that he toyed with the list of 1 warlord, rest clanrats. I think the main hitch was that you could run out of deployment space.

Having trawled through the FEC book, I worked on some lists. Which one do you think is the better one? Not entirely sure on which relics and traits to pick.

Spoiler: FEC list 1

Show

Allegiance: Flesh Eater Courts
- Grand Court: Court of Delusion - The Feast Day
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist (400)
- General
Abhorrant Archregent (200)
Varghulf Courtier (160)
10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)
10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)
Chalice of Ushoran (40)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 49

Spoiler: FEC list 2

Show

Allegiance: Flesh Eater Courts
- Grand Court: Court of Delusion - The Feast Day
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist (400)
- General
Abhorrant Archregent (200)
Crypt Ghast Courtier (60)
Abhorrant Ghoul King (140)
10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)
10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 53

I'd put money on list 2 being stronger in general. As for trait/Artifact, I actually like the idea of going Gristlegore and just taking those. Fight first is busted (especially when you can fight twice), instagib a model isn't bad, very good when you can pop a leader, special weapon, banner, or small Hero.

[Cheesegear]

It also occurs to me that, if you really wanted to, you could run a list that's just 280 clanrats, two clawlords and the screaming bell. I don't know if that would actually be good, and there's no way I'm buying that many clanrats, but it's amusing nonetheless.

A guy in my local who has been playing Skaven for like...A decade...Has put together a Skaven army with 200 models and change in it.
...He can't get games.

[PraetorDragoon]

I'd put money on list 2 being stronger in general. As for trait/Artifact, I actually like the idea of going Gristlegore and just taking those. Fight first is busted (especially when you can fight twice), instagib a model isn't bad, very good when you can pop a leader, special weapon, banner, or small Hero.

I'm also a bit more partial to list 2.
Gristlegore is pretty busted, isn't it?

I personally like the idea of Feast Day so you can get the 2nd fight command once for free each turn. Trait could be +1 to cast/dispel/unbind on the Archregent, relic could be Grim Garland for being the classic -2 to bravery bubble on the Terrorgeist. Speaking of Terrorgeist traits the reroll to hit on the maw could be good.

[Destro_Yersul]

A guy in my local who has been playing Skaven for like...A decade...Has put together a Skaven army with 200 models and change in it.
...He can't get games.

So just drowning the opponent in clanrats is a viable strategy. Good to know.

And hey, if you're worried about deployment space, you can always buy some warp grinders!

[Kadesh]

So just drowning the opponent in clanrats is a viable strategy. Good to know.

And hey, if you're worried about deployment space, you can always buy some warp grinders!

I think it's more to do with the fact of spending 3 hours waiting for someone to move models.

[Cheesegear]

So just drowning the opponent in clanrats is a viable strategy. Good to know.

I don't think all of it is Clan Rats. I think he has several Giant Rats or Rat Swarms or whatever in there as well. However...

I think it's more to do with the fact of spending 3 hours waiting for someone to move models.

...Is probably more accurate.

[Requizen]

I'm also a bit more partial to list 2.
Gristlegore is pretty busted, isn't it?

I personally like the idea of Feast Day so you can get the 2nd fight command once for free each turn. Trait could be +1 to cast/dispel/unbind on the Archregent, relic could be Grim Garland for being the classic -2 to bravery bubble on the Terrorgeist. Speaking of Terrorgeist traits the reroll to hit on the maw could be good.

Reroll Maw hits is by and far the best one imo. Healing is cool, but 6MW is cooler.

I think it's more to do with the fact of spending 3 hours waiting for someone to move models.

I know this isn't Fantasy Battles, but... movement trays. If people are gonna bring units of 30+ models, trays all day. They sell nice modular ones now, too.

[Kadesh]

Reroll Maw hits is by and far the best one imo. Healing is cool, but 6MW is cooler.

I know this isn't Fantasy Battles, but... movement trays. If people are gonna bring units of 30+ models, trays all day. They sell nice modular ones now, too.

And in fantasy battles, people got pissed off with people bringing 800pts of unbreakable Skaven Slaves too, when all of the attacks in the game literally could not remove them. It's antifun. Which is entirely up to you whether you want to participate in that (such as by people not playing people with armies that are antifun - i.e pseudocheat FoTM builds like say 6E 40K wave serpent spam, or 5E Leafblower Guard or Teclis spam.

[Requizen]

And in fantasy battles, people got pissed off with people bringing 800pts of unbreakable Skaven Slaves too, when all of the attacks in the game literally could not remove them. It's antifun. Which is entirely up to you whether you want to participate in that (such as by people not playing people with armies that are antifun - i.e pseudocheat FoTM builds like say 6E 40K wave serpent spam, or 5E Leafblower Guard or Teclis spam.

Hm I didn't play WHFB but you can definitely remove things in this game. If you have shooting, killing Heroes turns off Inspiring Presence, so then they just run super easily (or heck, just starve em out of CP so even with Heroes they can't stop things from running). Hordes are already quite popular - Death with Grimghasts/Chainrasps/Skeletons/Zombies, DoK with Witch Aelves and Sisters of Slaughters, Gloomspite with Grots, etc, so I think having tools to deal with them is inherently important in a competitive build.

Not to say there's not filth. There's filth.

[Drasius]

I don't understand allegiances very well, then. What's the point of taking a specific one, outside of allowing a few extra units to be Battleline? The way the Allegiance traits are written you just get them all if you're Skaventide, unless I'm reading that wrong. Otherwise how would you ever get the Masterclan one?

Taking plague rats or storm fiends as battleline plays different to clan rats. Mobs of giant rats will probably play out similar to clan rats, but with 3" range and more wounds.

I'm under the impression that you only get access to the traits and artifacts specific to your clan (except masterclan generals in clan only lists), though I could be mistaken.

It also occurs to me that, if you really wanted to, you could run a list that's just 280 clanrats, two clawlords and the screaming bell. I don't know if that would actually be good, and there's no way I'm buying that many clanrats, but it's amusing nonetheless.

Many WHFB skaven players will already have those sort of numbers of clan rats laying around, so don't be surprised if that's a thing that happens.

[Destro_Yersul]

Taking plague rats or storm fiends as battleline plays different to clan rats. Mobs of giant rats will probably play out similar to clan rats, but with 3" range and more wounds.

I'm under the impression that you only get access to the traits and artifacts specific to your clan (except masterclan generals in clan only lists), though I could be mistaken.

The way it's worded in the book is 'Allegiance abilities available to a Skaventide army,' and then the individual Clan traits specify what makes them happen. Things like the Eshin trait only happening if your army includes Clan Eshin Heroes, or the Verminus trait only affecting Clawlords. Then the Comman traits are restricted to Heroes of that particular Clan. Then there's the pitched battle chart at the back. It doesn't say, for example, 'Battleline in a Skryre army' for Stormfiends. It says Battleline in a Skaventide army, if the general is Masterclan or Clan Skryre, and everything else is Clan Skryre. Stormvermin just specify Battleline in Skaventide, which I suppose mostly just means they aren't Battleline in Grand Alliance, or whatever.

Many WHFB skaven players will already have those sort of numbers of clan rats laying around, so don't be surprised if that's a thing that happens.

I played WHFB Skaven, but my flavour of cheese was ratling guns and Jezzail spam, so I only have 60 clanrats.

[Kadesh]

Not going to hate against the style of play that makes someone happy, but I'm here to have fun. Hordes just aren't fun for me, so if you desperately wanna take your "W", you do so, mate. I got beat before I even put my models down. I'll just save my time playing against something I don't like, only to lose in a few hours time.

[Drasius]

The way it's worded in the book is 'Allegiance abilities available to a Skaventide army,' and then the individual Clan traits specify what makes them happen. Things like the Eshin trait only happening if your army includes Clan Eshin Heroes, or the Verminus trait only affecting Clawlords. Then the Comman traits are restricted to Heroes of that particular Clan. Then there's the pitched battle chart at the back. It doesn't say, for example, 'Battleline in a Skryre army' for Stormfiends. It says Battleline in a Skaventide army, if the general is Masterclan or Clan Skryre, and everything else is Clan Skryre. Stormvermin just specify Battleline in Skaventide, which I suppose mostly just means they aren't Battleline in Grand Alliance, or whatever.

Weird, I'm going to assume that there will be errata coming, otherwise, yeah, not much point to playing [clan] beyond fluff or to abuse battleline in certain cases.

I played WHFB Skaven, but my flavour of cheese was ratling guns and Jezzail spam, so I only have 60 clanrats.

Double weird, but everyone has their thing and both jezzails and rattling guns are rad. I do find the idea of a non-moulder army without hordes of clannies and slaves hard to picture and even harder to pilot, but it obviously worked for you.

Not going to hate against the style of play that makes someone happy, but I'm here to have fun. Hordes just aren't fun for me, so if you desperately wanna take your "W", you do so, mate. I got beat before I even put my models down. I'll just save my time playing against something I don't like, only to lose in a few hours time.

To be fair, skaven have always been a horde army outside of a few niche options. IIRC, I've got well over 200 clanrats/slaves and the general metric for 8th was a minimum of 1 body per 10 points of your list. Given that slaves were 2ppm, it wasn't a difficult task.

[Destro_Yersul]

Double weird, but everyone has their thing and both jezzails and rattling guns are rad. I do find the idea of a non-moulder army without hordes of clannies and slaves hard to picture and even harder to pilot, but it obviously worked for you.

This was in 6th, when Ratling Guns auto-hit and Skaven could shoot into combat. The only reason I had clanrats at all was because you needed them to attach the guns to.

[Drasius]

This was in 6th, when Ratling Guns auto-hit and Skaven could shoot into combat. The only reason I had clanrats at all was because you needed them to attach the guns to.

Ah, that explains it then.

[PraetorDragoon]

FAQs are two weeks after release, right? We need some clarification on the FEC medal artefact as well.

This was in 6th, when Ratling Guns auto-hit and Skaven could shoot into combat. The only reason I had clanrats at all was because you needed them to attach the guns to.

Simpler times :P

[Kadesh]

Weird, I'm going to assume that there will be errata coming, otherwise, yeah, not much point to playing [clan] beyond fluff or to abuse battleline in certain cases.



Double weird, but everyone has their thing and both jezzails and rattling guns are rad. I do find the idea of a non-moulder army without hordes of clannies and slaves hard to picture and even harder to pilot, but it obviously worked for you.



To be fair, skaven have always been a horde army outside of a few niche options. IIRC, I've got well over 200 clanrats/slaves and the general metric for 8th was a minimum of 1 body per 10 points of your list. Given that slaves were 2ppm, it wasn't a difficult task.

Again, from my perspective it was bad game design to put a 'Can you kill them quick enough, or else you lose lol' mechanic.

Then again, I played Glade Rider heavy wood elves from 6th so I guess people equally got annoyed by me avoiding anything remotely approaching a charge distance.

[Requizen]

Again, from my perspective it was bad game design to put a 'Can you kill them quick enough, or else you lose lol' mechanic.

Then again, I played Glade Rider heavy wood elves from 6th so I guess people equally got annoyed by me avoiding anything remotely approaching a charge distance.

It can definitely feel that way, but with damage spillover and Battleshock being what it is, killing Hordes is actually not that difficult in AoS. Again, no WHFB experience, but I've played against 150+ model lists and come out on top even when not taking anti-horde units. It's not a death sentence to see one across the table by any means.

[Artemis97]

Hi Everyone!

I'm new to Age of Sigmar, though I've admired the minis for years. Destro Yersul, my husband, is helping me get into the hobby, but I wanted your opinion on my potential army list. Basically I'm going with "That looks cool" for my choices, largely picking from the old elves (I guess it's Aelves now?) and some sylvaneth for battle line troops. Oh and there's Bob, the lone human of the group. Everything is Grand Alliance Order, because the Aelves are apparently split into a ton of different alliances. No bonus things for me that way, but that's alright.

Spoiler: Elves and Stuff

Show

Celestial Hurricanum with Celestial Battlemage AKA Bob (380)

Dryads x10 (100)*
Dryads x10 (100)*
Dryads x10 (100)*

White Lion Chariot (80)*
White Lions x10 (120)

Archmage on Aelven Steed (100)*

Dragon Noble (100)*
Dragon Blades x5 (140)

Nomad Prince (80)
Spellweaver (100)*
Eternal Guard x10 (70)*
Wild Riders x5 (120)

High Warden (formerly High Elf Prince on a Griffin) (220)*
Shadow Warriors x10 (180)

*Already owned/purchased

Total points 1990

I also have the Treelord Ancient and Branchwych sprues, from the Sylvaneth start collecting box. And, if my parents sent him to me, another Archmage.

[PraetorDragoon]

Welcome to the show! That is a lot of variety right there, and what is cool is a perfect reason to pick units.

Two points I want to make. First is that you still get the Generic Order Allegiance abilities, so you do get some bonus things from there.
The second is that in general, larger units do better than smaller units. Several units have "Horde Bonusses" which trigger if there are more than 20 or even 30 in said unit, and because spells or command abilities affect all models in a single unit, you get more from the buff if the unit is larger.

My recommendation would be to look at some of the 10 man unit groups and see if you can increase their numbers. If you like Glade Guard (the wanderer bow elves) you can pick those as another battleline and merge the dryads together.

[Artemis97]

Hello and thank you for the advice. I honestly didn't like the look of the glade guard, which made me pick dryads as my main battle line units. Maybe I'll take a second look, could just they need a better paint job than GW gave them. I do like the Shadow Warriors, but I don't think they get a horde bonus. The dryads totally do, though. Is it possible to run two groups of fifteen? instead of three of ten?


Destro and I just ran a mock battle with our armies, my elves versus his skaven. They held up pretty well against all that warp lightning. He won a minor victory, because he'd taken out 500 points of my units, but that was only after a round and a half, two of his turns one of mine. Should have been able to make up more if I'd had another turn. Bob is too good, apparently.

Anyways, it's like 4am here, so I'll check in tomorrow.

[Requizen]

Hello and thank you for the advice. I honestly didn't like the look of the glade guard, which made me pick dryads as my main battle line units. Maybe I'll take a second look, could just they need a better paint job than GW gave them. I do like the Shadow Warriors, but I don't think they get a horde bonus. The dryads totally do, though. Is it possible to run two groups of fifteen? instead of three of ten?


Destro and I just ran a mock battle with our armies, my elves versus his skaven. They held up pretty well against all that warp lightning. He won a minor victory, because he'd taken out 500 points of my units, but that was only after a round and a half, two of his turns one of mine. Should have been able to make up more if I'd had another turn. Bob is too good, apparently.

Anyways, it's like 4am here, so I'll check in tomorrow.

Awesome to see new people in the hobby, first of all. Moreso if it's a group activity like you guys have.

I'll note that my thoughts will be coming from the perspective of someone who likes to play to win - but my viewpoint isn't the only one. It sounds like you're heavily influenced by the looks of models and theme more than rules and what not, which is great. If you want to take something that's not as hard performing because you like how it looks or the narrative of it, don't let anyone stop you! Narrative Gaming is a great part of the hobby so don't feel like you have to follow tournament-style advice.


So with thile you have a lot of troops, you're lacking a bit of hitting power. Eternal Guard and Dragon Blades are solid, but generally you'll want to take them in larger numbers to get more power out of them. Maybe try to drop a couple things to bulk those units up.

As you said, Bob the Celestial Hurricanum is a fantastic unit. Note that he gives out a nice +hit aura to nearby models, something that you might want to think about including some Shooting units to take advantage of. For instance, if you like the look of Dryads and Sylvaneth in general, a unit or two of Kurnoth Hunters using Bows standing next to him can be quite the fearsome threat from a long range!

[PraetorDragoon]

White Lions laso aren't too shabby. If you can bulk those up you might benefit from some more damage. White Lion Chariots are also pretty decent.

[Drasius]

If you can convince Destro Yersul that playing open/narrative is the way to go, then you don't even have to stick to the typical army building restrictions for matched play, unless 2.0 changed that too?

[Artemis97]

Oh I have no idea about narrative play. We haven't discussed it. Mostly we focused on building a 2k point army because that's what most tournaments use, so it was a good starting point. Tournaments could be fun, though I don't expect to win anything.

Also I had a second look at the Glade Guard, decided it was just some of the weirder head options I didn't like, and that they would look fabulous in the autumnal colors I have planned for my army.

I don't know what I'd drop, really if I were to add more things. Could drop the shadow warriors and the griffin to free up a bunch of points. They work well together, with the Griffin's hurricane charge. So maybe I want more of them?

trade dryads out for glade guard maybe?

I'm not sure where to go from here, but maybe I should just get my basic army built first. The only things actually constructed are the old models I had in Florida before I moved to Canada to be with Destro. So that's the High Warden, the White Lions, and two Archmages. Oh! And there's the Dragon Noble on a lion, which Destro made for me. He's statted to be on a horse, but he looks awesome. I think I have the parts for the second dragon noble, too, the one on foot.

[PraetorDragoon]

A dragon noble on a lion does sound pretty rad. Lets try to keep him in there and go a bit more lion-themed? Dragon Blades on lions?

[Requizen]

FAQ/Errata up for Skaven/FEC, on their FB page now but hopefully up on the site soon. Mostly randomly obvious answers ,as these have tended to be (what's d3xd6?), but one thing is that it clarified the rules for Gristlgore. Royal Terrorgheists and Royal Zombie Dragons in Gristlegore are no longer Behemoths, so you can take more than 4 if you use that Grand Court. You can run 6 models as your army, and be legal. That's pretty amusing (but probably terrible), a small change is that it means those models can start 9" away from enemy territory on Escalation. Not overly powerful, but pretty cool.

The fact that the Gristlegore General that fights first (twice) and murders everything it touches is unchanged is pretty jarring, though I think the mid-year FAQ might change it if they start rolling through every tournament between then and now.

[PraetorDragoon]

Gristlegore is madness with their trait and the silly fight twice command. The six Terrorgeist (2 kings, 4 regulars) is hilarious though.

Medal of Madness has also changed to being useful. Its not amazing, but better than the wast of text it was before. And a bit more clear that a dragon can't sit on the charnel throne. How surprising.

Interesting note is that Verminlords don't get skaven spells.